Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The Indices were created as a 'get you by' style book because 8th Ed doesn't have a common rules base with the previous edition, so they had to release lists for everything as the old Codices would not work. They're temporary by design.

The idea that they'd keep them around once all the Codices are done is silly.

I reckon we'll see some form of Legacy book.

Strip out all the stuff in Indecies now contained in Codecies, leaving just 'legacy' units. Also gives them a chance to tweak legacy unit rules in line with FAQs and Erratas and that. And that's more money they can charge us.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The Indices were created as a 'get you by' style book because 8th Ed doesn't have a common rules base with the previous edition, so they had to release lists for everything as the old Codices would not work. They're temporary by design.

The idea that they'd keep them around once all the Codices are done is silly.

I reckon we'll see some form of Legacy book.

Strip out all the stuff in Indecies now contained in Codecies, leaving just 'legacy' units. Also gives them a chance to tweak legacy unit rules in line with FAQs and Erratas and that. And that's more money they can charge us.

Maybe, I think they'll be taken out of matched play pretty soon though. If we're still allowed to use Index options by by the time we have CA 2019 in our hands I'm honestly quite surprised

Looted things in CA 2018 (possibly not for matched-play, similar to the Helfrost Land Raider, etc.. in CA 2017)

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Battlewagons also lose access to rokkits. You know, because there aren't any in the box and conversions are bad, mmmkay?

Index, dude.

It's still an asinine change and more of this no model/no rule nonsense.

And really, how long do you think those Index are going to stick around?

Ugh that's a horrible thought. Trueborn are only in the index and they're good but without them Kabals would be a waste of time to even use. Bloodbrides left too but that wasn't too big a deal. Oddly the lore even talks about trueborn so they are still a thing. Guess i'll have to chug along a bunch of huge ass raiders with 10 guys each just to get 2 guys with the special weapon i want. That or i could switch to poison with most of them and go 'poisoned tongue'. This is so ridiculous though as kabals will only have warriors and the hq units as their unique sub-faction units. Everything else also falls under the wych sub-faction like ravagers. Of course we need range with our melee but this is weird.

Is it me or did they nerf dark eldar significantly harder than imperial guard? Guard can still use anti-titan super heavies to take down knights. I'm not even getting into soup which they can soup with probably half the armies since imperium are half the armies pretty much.

---------

Back on topic. I think Orks have some cool new cars and a trike in one kit. The rules sound really good. They're kinda stupid and way too good as far as i've seen but who knows maybe it's just the issue of all new codexes where people say they suck or are broken only to be wrong. I'm not sure why someone wouldn't take most of their basic boyz as skar boyz. Str 5 is pretty huge against t 4 and t 5 armies as if ork boyz weren't already good at melee enough for a horde unit of basic troops.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Looted things in CA 2018 (possibly not for matched-play, similar to the Helfrost Land Raider, etc.. in CA 2017)

Excellent. I hope it's also for matched play, and not just open play like the Land Raider variants in CA 2017.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Looted things in CA 2018 (possibly not for matched-play, similar to the Helfrost Land Raider, etc.. in CA 2017)

See, I told you they would leave it out of the codex so we have to buy CA

Seriously, If CA has points changes for Orks I will freak! It's about a month out so why couldn't they just put it in our codex?

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

I'm not sure why someone wouldn't take most of their basic boyz as skar boyz. Str 5 is pretty huge against t 4 and t 5 armies as if ork boyz weren't already good at melee enough for a horde unit of basic troops.

9" charge on 2d6 even with reroll is 50-50. If unit fails to charge after DS it gets deleted. That's why. Not to mention that means 3CP per unit for added fun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lolman1c wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Looted things in CA 2018 (possibly not for matched-play, similar to the Helfrost Land Raider, etc.. in CA 2017)

See, I told you they would leave it out of the codex so we have to buy CA

Seriously, If CA has points changes for Orks I will freak! It's about a month out so why couldn't they just put it in our codex?

It won't have points. Lead times. Who got idea CA would have point changes? Just look at the bugs who didn't get anything there either. CA is already written and done for. No matched play content in CA for orks except for new missions maybe to try their luck with. They might get open play looted vehicle rules ala land raiders last year but those won't be useful for matched play anyway.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

Back on topic. I think Orks have some cool new cars and a trike in one kit. The rules sound really good. They're kinda stupid and way too good as far as i've seen but who knows maybe it's just the issue of all new codexes where people say they suck or are broken only to be wrong. I'm not sure why someone wouldn't take most of their basic boyz as skar boyz. Str 5 is pretty huge against t 4 and t 5 armies as if ork boyz weren't already good at melee enough for a horde unit of basic troops.

I don't know about really good. The costs are around 100 points and higher, and in the end many of them don't seem to do all that much for the price. Like the Squigbuggy, which is the one I'd be mostly interested in of the buggies. It doesn't have a whole lot of damage output for the 140 points that it costs, even with the heavy launcher being BS4. Nor is it all that durable.

As for Skarboyz, well, the limitation is in that it is only available for Goff.

tneva82 wrote:


Yep. I expect either lots of remodeling of KMK's to traktor kannons(if they werent' magnetized) or lots of purchaces(just as planned). Those things topled KMK.

And if you face DE regularly...Frankly I don't CARE if they are competive or not

if those suck against anything else if they are good vs dark eldar I don't care.

Some days you are just too much.

You start out claiming a conspiracy to sell Traktor Kannons, which went up in points, too, but then admit it might not be a TAC gun.

I'm going to go give myself a stroke.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The Indices were created as a 'get you by' style book because 8th Ed doesn't have a common rules base with the previous edition, so they had to release lists for everything as the old Codices would not work. They're temporary by design.

The idea that they'd keep them around once all the Codices are done is silly.

I reckon we'll see some form of Legacy book.

Strip out all the stuff in Indecies now contained in Codecies, leaving just 'legacy' units. Also gives them a chance to tweak legacy unit rules in line with FAQs and Erratas and that. And that's more money they can charge us.

To be fair any legacy book will be like what forgeworld did. Power level only and not for matched play. The index as we currently have it will disappear shortly after the last 2-3 armies get thier codex (genecult, sisters, agents of imperium, and maybe khorne demonkin...)

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 davou wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Is there any other unit where you don't have access to the base model, and they HAVE to take a heavy weapon option with no way to swap it out?

Devastators, noisemarines, broadsides?

Oh, you mean Tactical Marines, Chaos Marines and Crisis Suits? Because those are more or less the generic versions of those models.

By that logic, I could say that a warboss/nob is just a generic version of a big mek, or that boys are just smaller generic versions of nobs. You just want to complain, and it doesn't matter what your subject happens to be

gungo wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The Indices were created as a 'get you by' style book because 8th Ed doesn't have a common rules base with the previous edition, so they had to release lists for everything as the old Codices would not work. They're temporary by design.

The idea that they'd keep them around once all the Codices are done is silly.

I reckon we'll see some form of Legacy book.

Strip out all the stuff in Indecies now contained in Codecies, leaving just 'legacy' units. Also gives them a chance to tweak legacy unit rules in line with FAQs and Erratas and that. And that's more money they can charge us.

To be fair any legacy book will be like what forgeworld did. Power level only and not for matched play. The index as we currently have it will disappear shortly after the last 2-3 armies get thier codex (genecult, sisters, agents of imperium, and maybe khorne demonkin...)

Possibly. Hard to say. Ultimately, giving them points would be done by the community regardless. I know it's not ideal for many, but it's why I suspect points in any potential Legacy Book.

Back on topic....urge to do Orks intensifies.

 davou wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 davou wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Is there any other unit where you don't have access to the base model, and they HAVE to take a heavy weapon option with no way to swap it out?

Devastators, noisemarines, broadsides?

Oh, you mean Tactical Marines, Chaos Marines and Crisis Suits? Because those are more or less the generic versions of those models.

By that logic, I could say that a warboss/nob is just a generic version of a big mek, or that boys are just smaller generic versions of nobs. You just want to complain, and it doesn't matter what your subject happens to be

Only if you want to be intellectually dishonest.
Warbosses and Nobs don't repair things, have different statlines, and different loadout options. They are not Big Meks.
The fact that you can no longer just take a Big Mek is a big problem, as it hurts composition variety, it doesn't make sense, and its a lazy enforcement of that stupid no rule no model policy in an army that's supposed to encourage conversions.
I resent the claim that I am complaining for the sake of complaining. If it were not for rule 1, I probably would have said something nasty by now.

Please reduce the bickering.

Discussion good.

Bickering and only replying to one person just to bicker with them, that's just a drag, man.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Looted things in CA 2018 (possibly not for matched-play, similar to the Helfrost Land Raider, etc.. in CA 2017)

I imagine it'll be in the same limited vein as those Land Raider too so I'm hoping they're going to at least give us a couple vehicle profiles to build from,... Looted-Leman Russ, Looted Predator, Looted Rhino, Goliath, Chimera... etc...

Yes, but can you loot a carnifex?
If they have an actual looted carnifex profile that would be hilarious.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yes, but can you loot a carnifex?
If they have an actual looted carnifex profile that would be hilarious.

it would be called "looted bitey and squigly bits"

 Redemption wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Looted things in CA 2018 (possibly not for matched-play, similar to the Helfrost Land Raider, etc.. in CA 2017)

Excellent. I hope it's also for matched play, and not just open play like the Land Raider variants in CA 2017.

I wouldn't get your hopes up.. as if they were to be for Matched Play I don't see why they wouldn't have put them in the Codex itself, chances are the very fact that it is in CA and not the Codex means it's more of an Open Play thing for people that want to mess around making crazy, whacky looted vehicles.

So, with the new "ere we go" rule the math becomes a bit easier to calculate on your odds to get in.

Here's the lowdown:

If you fail your charge, you can reroll either one die or both. It makes sense to reroll one die if one of your dice is a 4 (improves your odds to 33% success), a 5 (to 50%) or a 6 (66%). If you reroll both dice, your odds of success is the same as the odds on the original roll, or 27.8%.

Weighting for the probability of a failure with a 4, 5, or 6 showing on one die, your odds of getting in on the second roll when you can reroll either one or both dice is just about 40%. The compound probability of succeeding in the first roll (27.8%) or the second roll (40%) is about 56.8% - a bit better than 50-50.

When your charge can succeed on an 8 (you are Evil Sunz) your odds improve drastically. The odds of your second roll (rerolling one die if you get a 4, 5, or 6, rerolling both if you only have 1s 2s and 3s) is 52.8, and the odds of your initial roll is 41.7%. The compound probability of either roll succeeding is 72.5%.

So if you are deep striking and you are any klan but Evil Sunz: 56.8%. Reroll one die if you have a 3, 4, 5, or 6 on the other die.

If you are deep striking and you are an evil sun: 72.5%. Reroll one die if you have a 4, 5, or 6 on the other die.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As a side note, the release of looted vehicles is a perfect opportunity for Games Workshop to release an anti-recast advertisement in the same style as "you wouldn't download a house".

YOU WOULDN'T DOWNLOAD A CARNIFEX

Those ads were dumb, that would be cringy as hell.
Also, I think most probably would, in fact, download a carnifex.
Now, if it were "you shouldn't download a carnifex", perhaps they would have greater success.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yes, but can you loot a carnifex?
If they have an actual looted carnifex profile that would be hilarious.

If a Mek, the Lootin' Boy and a Doc believe it'll work?

After all, Bad Dok's can totally do Squig brain transplants. So they're to some degree surprisingly capable.

Though strictly speaking, I'm not at all sure a Squig Brained Carnifex would be any better.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Those ads were dumb, that would be cringy as hell.
Also, I think most probably would, in fact, download a carnifex.
Now, if it were "you shouldn't download a carnifex", perhaps they would have greater success.

The cringiness of those ads is why they're a meme. Im saying were I in charge of GWs goofy video department, I would make a 'you wouldn't download a leman russ' shakey cam video in the leadup to CA2018.

Pre-order done.
I was thinking though. I don't like the idea of a base on the new buggies. Would this be a problem if I left them off?

the_scotsman wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Those ads were dumb, that would be cringy as hell.
Also, I think most probably would, in fact, download a carnifex.
Now, if it were "you shouldn't download a carnifex", perhaps they would have greater success.

The cringiness of those ads is why they're a meme. Im saying were I in charge of GWs goofy video department, I would make a 'you wouldn't download a leman russ' shakey cam video in the leadup to CA2018.

Yeah, fair enough. They would probably make a huge joke out of it.
Wouldn't it make more sense though if they talked about looting rather than downloading, if its for CA2018?
Like "You wouldn't loot a Leman Russ...You wouldn't Loot a Carnifex....You wouldn't Loot the Emperor" and then at the end you just hear an Ork scream out "Ya zoggin' bet ah would!"

Give me my looted rhino(s) back!

the_scotsman wrote:
As a side note, the release of looted vehicles is a perfect opportunity for Games Workshop to release an anti-recast advertisement in the same style as "you wouldn't download a house".

YOU WOULDN'T DOWNLOAD A CARNIFEX

We had those adds running before movies in the cinema. One of them was "you wouldn't download a pizza" and someone in the audience yelled "Hell yeah, I would!".

 vim_the_good wrote:
Pre-order done.
I was thinking though. I don't like the idea of a base on the new buggies. Would this be a problem if I left them off?

Prepare for modeling for advantage cries

 vim_the_good wrote:
Pre-order done.
I was thinking though. I don't like the idea of a base on the new buggies. Would this be a problem if I left them off?

No one will care

tneva82 wrote:

 vim_the_good wrote:
Pre-order done.
I was thinking though. I don't like the idea of a base on the new buggies. Would this be a problem if I left them off?

Prepare for modeling for advantage cries

Honestly the bases on these things have the same problem that biker bases on warbikes have: Games Workshop hasn't figured out that in order for a model to stay glued to a base, it really should have little flat spots on the bottom of the wheels for contact, and it REALLY REALLY shouldn't have spikes/knobbles on the bottoms of wheels to reduce the contact area even further to .00001mm.

I finished gluing my boosta-blasta, left it overnight to dry, picked it up the next day to look at it and the base just fell off. I ended up having to put greenstuff under the wheels to get it to stick.

tbh though I'm perfectly fine with having a base on them for gameplay. for a vehicle that wants to tie things up in melee in its spare time, I want a big ol base.

I saw discussion about Looted Wagons, but did anyone post this image already?