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 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game?? Flash gitz going up in price? Runtherd and painboy goes up by a dozen points? These are bs changes for seemingly no apparent reason.

They removed it because there isn't an official model for it. The model for it is ghazghkull that people just used as a warboss in MA.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
What seems especially stupid is that points are pretty much required for any build-your-own looted wagon design system which isn't horribly restricted. If I want to make something with loads of big shootas, each of them is going to be like 0.2 power. And they are going to have to give new costs to all the weapons which are 0 points in the codex.

But it will be horribly restricted, just like the Land Raider one.

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game??

The designers were told to make some new models. They decided that a mega-armour warboss (and bikeboss and so on) wasn't a good prospect for sales. So they made new vehicles instead. That means there isn't a warboss in mega-armour (et cetera) in the GW product line. They don't make rules for models that they don't sell. Nothing to do with balance, just their marketing strategy.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game??

The designers were told to make some new models. They decided that a mega-armour warboss (and bikeboss and so on) wasn't a good prospect for sales. So they made new vehicles instead. That means there isn't a warboss in mega-armour (et cetera) in the GW product line. They don't make rules for models that they don't sell. Nothing to do with balance, just their marketing strategy.

But wasn't the entire community expecting a new Ghaz model? This would have downgraded the old model into our Warboss in MA. This way we keep the rules and GW sells a new ghaz model but no they released some buggies that will likely only sell certain variations.

Even if we did get a new Ghaz model, theres no way they woudl have kept the old Ghaz model and renamed it "Warboss in Mega Armor".

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game??

The designers were told to make some new models. They decided that a mega-armour warboss (and bikeboss and so on) wasn't a good prospect for sales. So they made new vehicles instead. That means there isn't a warboss in mega-armour (et cetera) in the GW product line. They don't make rules for models that they don't sell. Nothing to do with balance, just their marketing strategy.

What's wrong with making a warboss from the mega armored nobz kit? I mean, you have to buy that in order to build a mega armored mek.
GW's policy is stupid.

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game?? Flash gitz going up in price? Runtherd and painboy goes up by a dozen points? These are bs changes for seemingly no apparent reason.

Flash gitz are massively improved (4+ armor now, S6 AP-2 D2 gun)

MA boss and regular BM were removed because no model no rules (games workshop no longer makes both regular big mek sculpts)

Runtherd and Painboy we don't know, they may have additional abilities and they may have just been nerfed for some reason. We also don't know why the wazbom blastajet has increased in price, but it seems like every day we learn about 3-4 new rules changes.

Removing the warboss in mega armour is so silly on many levels. Would anyone complain if you proxy a ghaz or regular MAN for a warboss? No. Fluffwise we now have our Nobz being able to take the best personal protection a mek could offer but our bosses apparently feel no need to get the best equipment one can loot/buy.

Y'know strange thing about the no model/no rules thing is, I'd be all over a customizable MA warboss and Big Mek KIt....

Thats the thing.

Theyre enforcing this "no model no rules" thing way too early for orks. Heck even Ghaz is an ancient model, why they discontinued the footmek KFF and not him i have no idea.

Orks have always been heavily into customized models and kitbashes, so they never gave us a proper "commander kit" like everyone else has. Suddenly they rip out half the rules for them because we have no proper kit?

Absolutely the biggest BS in the new releases. Completely gutted our HQ choices and loss of a footmek KFF is horseraddishes.
I'm seriously expecting a new box for just this in summer-ish 2019 at the latest. The outrage from lack of rules enough would cause it.

Lets be honest here. After the point leaks, these new buggies are on the 'fun' shelf holding hands with the stompa. KFF Mek and the MA boss are both gone in favor of a the shitwagon snazcrack.
Overall, I think the rest of the codex looks very good.

 Rinkydink wrote:
Y'know strange thing about the no model/no rules thing is, I'd be all over a customizable MA warboss and Big Mek KIt....

Ikr? They basically shot themselves in the foot. They could have left those options in for future proofing purposes, but they had to do this weird thing where apparently warbosses don't wear mega armor and big meks can only wear mega armor or have SAGs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Thats the thing.

Theyre enforcing this "no model no rules" thing way too early for orks. Heck even Ghaz is an ancient model, why they discontinued the footmek KFF and not him i have no idea.

Orks have always been heavily into customized models and kitbashes, so they never gave us a proper "commander kit" like everyone else has. Suddenly they rip out half the rules for them because we have no proper kit?

Absolutely the biggest BS in the new releases. Completely gutted our HQ choices and loss of a footmek KFF is horseraddishes.
I'm seriously expecting a new box for just this in summer-ish 2019 at the latest. The outrage from lack of rules enough would cause it.

Get on FB when the codex drops. I know I will.

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game

Because tehres a model for the mek with KFF in mega armor in plastic and there isnt one for the warboss in mega armor in plastic; it has nothing to do with the rules.

 Billagio wrote:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game??

They didnt have a model for it, but had a big mek in MA model.

So instead of make a model they simply remove the entry from the codex? I have models for which I cannot use in games now. Models I spent a LOT of time converting and scratchbuilding and painting. Warboss on bike, MA, Regular big meks not in mega armor (I have 5), paintboy on bikes... all just worth as much as as the space they take up in my case

 Rinkydink wrote:
Y'know strange thing about the no model/no rules thing is, I'd be all over a customizable MA warboss and Big Mek KIt....

Yeah, with the number of HQ choices you need now, I'd certainly buy multiples. As it is, I'm going to get a single copy of the best looking vehicles and kitbash some more just so I have a bit of variety in my army.

 davou wrote:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game

Because tehres a model for the mek with KFF in mega armor in plastic and there isnt one for the warboss in mega armor in plastic; it has nothing to do with the rules.

If only there was such a thing called "kitbashing" which has been an ork staple for years. The "no-rule-no-model" policy should not apply to orks. They are the worse faction to apply that policy to, as they are all about kitbashing.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 davou wrote:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game

Because tehres a model for the mek with KFF in mega armor in plastic and there isnt one for the warboss in mega armor in plastic; it has nothing to do with the rules.

If only there was such a thing called "kitbashing" which has been an ork staple for years. The "no-rule-no-model" policy should not apply to orks. They are the worse faction to apply that policy to, as they are all about kitbashing.

It's very likel;y that policy exists because of orks kitbashing and scratchbuilding. GW is beholden to its shareholders, and catering to people who will turn an old etch-a-sketch into a stompa using a hot glue gun and an old for sale sign makes very little money for those shareholders. A necron monolith turned into a battlewagon looks cool, but it only made the company money when the necron player bought it, not when the ork player fished it out of a box and tossed it into some simple green

Apart from the footslogging warboss from black reach all my current ork hqs are index models! Really hope they don’t remove the index rules for a while!

Minor problems aside I’m really looking forward to the new codex. Will be converting/scratch building a few ork dreads as well as tank bustas

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

 Billagio wrote:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game??

They didnt have a model for it, but had a big mek in MA model.

So instead of make a model they simply remove the entry from the codex? I have models for which I cannot use in games now. Models I spent a LOT of time converting and scratchbuilding and painting. Warboss on bike, MA, Regular big meks not in mega armor (I have 5), paintboy on bikes... all just worth as much as as the space they take up in my case

Yes, its a gakky policy but Orks are not the first ones to be hit by this.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 davou wrote:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game

Because tehres a model for the mek with KFF in mega armor in plastic and there isnt one for the warboss in mega armor in plastic; it has nothing to do with the rules.

If only there was such a thing called "kitbashing" which has been an ork staple for years. The "no-rule-no-model" policy should not apply to orks. They are the worse faction to apply that policy to, as they are all about kitbashing.

As far as new-GW are concerned, the only acceptable form of 'kitbashing' is swapping parts between modular kits. Putting different heads on your Cadians is acceptable, actually using plasticard and green stuff, completely beyond the pale. Even the looted wagon they are showing off has simply had some big shootas from the battlewagon cut to go onto a LR's secondary weapon mounts, a simple turret swap and a couple of glyph plates glued on.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 davou wrote:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game

Because tehres a model for the mek with KFF in mega armor in plastic and there isnt one for the warboss in mega armor in plastic; it has nothing to do with the rules.

If only there was such a thing called "kitbashing" which has been an ork staple for years. The "no-rule-no-model" policy should not apply to orks. They are the worse faction to apply that policy to, as they are all about kitbashing.

As far as new-GW are concerned, the only acceptable form of 'kitbashing' is swapping parts between modular kits. Putting different heads on your Cadians is acceptable, actually using plasticard and green stuff, completely beyond the pale. Even the looted wagon they are showing off has simply had some big shootas from the battlewagon cut to go onto a LR's secondary weapon mounts, a simple turret swap and a couple of glyph plates glued on.

You could probably make a Mega Armored Warboss by kitbashing a Mega Armored Nob though with spare parts from other sets. And I'm sure you can get some electrical stuff (also from the MANZ set, probably) and stick it onto the back of that single plastic Mek they sell. You don't actually need plasticard to make them.

Darkmind wrote:
Lets be honest here. After the point leaks, these new buggies are on the 'fun' shelf holding hands with the stompa. KFF Mek and the MA boss are both gone in favor of a the shitwagon snazcrack.
Overall, I think the rest of the codex looks very good.

I agree with you on the subject of the Squigbuggy and possibly the Snazzwagon (though the latter may have rules we haven't heard yet, what we do know is underwhelming at best for the points) I think you're dismissing the other three and the trikeboss really early.

Both the skrapjet and the dragsta put up extremely respectable numbers shooting tanks and the dragsta either gets a huge firepower boost with Deffskullz or crazy board control with Evil Sunz, while the skrapjet adds to its shooting with good anti tank melee with a S7 AP-2 D2 weapon and a 4+ to dish out mortal wounds.

The boosta-blasta is the actual decent generalist (feth the useless and bizarrely overpriced squigbuggy) does good anti chaff damage at short range while plunking away at light vehicles or heavy infantry with the rivet cannon.

the trikeboss is your current bike warboss with 'eadwoppas kilchoppa but he doesn't eat your relic, lets you advance and charge your battlewagons, and has an autohitting scorcha weapon instead of crappy dakkagunz.

 davou wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 davou wrote:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game

Because tehres a model for the mek with KFF in mega armor in plastic and there isnt one for the warboss in mega armor in plastic; it has nothing to do with the rules.

If only there was such a thing called "kitbashing" which has been an ork staple for years. The "no-rule-no-model" policy should not apply to orks. They are the worse faction to apply that policy to, as they are all about kitbashing.

It's very likel;y that policy exists because of orks kitbashing and scratchbuilding. GW is beholden to its shareholders, and catering to people who will turn an old etch-a-sketch into a stompa using a hot glue gun and an old for sale sign makes very little money for those shareholders. A necron monolith turned into a battlewagon looks cool, but it only made the company money when the necron player bought it, not when the ork player fished it out of a box and tossed it into some simple green

Doesn't that policy exist because of Chapterhouse and 3rd party sellers? I don't think Ork players are to blame here.

 davou wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 davou wrote:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game

Because tehres a model for the mek with KFF in mega armor in plastic and there isnt one for the warboss in mega armor in plastic; it has nothing to do with the rules.

If only there was such a thing called "kitbashing" which has been an ork staple for years. The "no-rule-no-model" policy should not apply to orks. They are the worse faction to apply that policy to, as they are all about kitbashing.

It's very likel;y that policy exists because of orks kitbashing and scratchbuilding. GW is beholden to its shareholders, and catering to people who will turn an old etch-a-sketch into a stompa using a hot glue gun and an old for sale sign makes very little money for those shareholders. A necron monolith turned into a battlewagon looks cool, but it only made the company money when the necron player bought it, not when the ork player fished it out of a box and tossed it into some simple green

Not at all. The legal precedent from the Chapterhouse suit is very clear, and there is no company on the planet that would accept giving their IP up to the extent that chapterhouse would allow if they continued their previous business model.

If you want to see what a lenient company Games Workshop is when it comes to conversion and nonstandard models, try showing up to an official magic card tournament with noticeably counterfeit cards and see how quick you get a lifetime ban.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 davou wrote:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
I still have YET to see an explanation on why they remove a warboss in mega armor, but they FORCE you to take the big mek in mega armor.... warboss in mega armor was to meta breaking and had to be removed for the good of the game

Because tehres a model for the mek with KFF in mega armor in plastic and there isnt one for the warboss in mega armor in plastic; it has nothing to do with the rules.

If only there was such a thing called "kitbashing" which has been an ork staple for years. The "no-rule-no-model" policy should not apply to orks. They are the worse faction to apply that policy to, as they are all about kitbashing.

As far as new-GW are concerned, the only acceptable form of 'kitbashing' is swapping parts between modular kits. Putting different heads on your Cadians is acceptable, actually using plasticard and green stuff, completely beyond the pale. Even the looted wagon they are showing off has simply had some big shootas from the battlewagon cut to go onto a LR's secondary weapon mounts, a simple turret swap and a couple of glyph plates glued on.

You could probably make a Mega Armored Warboss by kitbashing a Mega Armored Nob though with spare parts from other sets. And I'm sure you can get some electrical stuff (also from the MANZ set, probably) and stick it onto the back of that single plastic Mek they sell. You don't actually need plasticard to make them.

I was under the impression Warbosses were notably bigger than Nobz though? It isn't a problem for the other HQs- they are all Nob-sized, so kitbashing Big Meks is relatively straightforward.

My Black Reach Warboss is huge, bigger than my ancient MA Ghaz.

I find a slight level or irony in the example shown of a "looted vehicle", in that you could build a T8 tank with a cannon and three big shoota using the current Battlewagon rules.

was kind of hoping for this to allow stuff other than what you can already do

Wait, spikey bits (yeah I know, not super reliable but I think they have the codex in front of them) writes this about the evil sunz strat:
Drive-By Krumpin'(1cp): Use this stratagem at the end of the movement phase, you can immediately move as if it were in the movement phase with an Evil Sunz Speed Freeks unit. That unit can’t charge later in the turn.

Man, one of the video reviews that described this omitted the fact that it has to be a speed freeks unit and I think they also mentioned that it was at the end of the shooting phase. If that were the case then you could've driven up close with a trukk full of tankbustas to chuck their grenades and then retreat back, now I'm not so sure what to use this for..

Any suggestions? Since you can't charge afterwards it doesn't help alpha/beta strike, so other than a late linebreaker this seems pretty tame. Am I missing something?

Source: https://spikeybits.com/2018/10/orktober-at-an-end-gws-ork-codex-latest-updates-more.html

slightly off the topic of the current discussion.
for anyone that is more interested in bringing toys over boys, or in other words, to bring alot of vehicles/elites but not boyz in particular, but also want a lot of cp for the strategems then i see weirdboyz making a good sale for GW.

if you want to get one or 2 batalions for cheap on orks then its 2 weirdboys (our cheepest hq option, and his powers do damage) and 3 minimum squads of grots.
that is 214pts for one bataltion.

for 428pts you get 10cps and alot of slots for all our other toys to put into. its not a cheap as the guard cp battery, but i think it will do its job just fine. like i said, weirdboys have a lot of possible dmg output, especially with grots for their psyker batteries, and also grots can do the grot shield strat for any infantry you run and camp your backfield objectives.

There isn't an Ork hq clamshell in stores.

Big men with kff comes from MANz box, warboss is the grukk model from grukks bossmob. Everything else is direct only finecast.

It's a problem for people starting Orks.

geargutz wrote:
slightly off the topic of the current discussion.
for anyone that is more interested in bringing toys over boys, or in other words, to bring alot of vehicles/elites but not boyz in particular, but also want a lot of cp for the strategems then i see weirdboyz making a good sale for GW.

if you want to get one or 2 batalions for cheap on orks then its 2 weirdboys (our cheepest hq option, and his powers do damage) and 3 minimum squads of grots.
that is 214pts for one bataltion.

for 428pts you get 10cps and alot of slots for all our other toys to put into. its not a cheap as the guard cp battery, but i think it will do its job just fine. like i said, weirdboys have a lot of possible dmg output, especially with grots for their psyker batteries, and also grots can do the grot shield strat for any infantry you run and camp your backfield objectives.

Yeah, that's a pretty decent cheapo battalion. One real drawback though is that there isn't any synergy between the grots and the weirdboyz since grots no longer count towards the waaagh energy of the weirdboy. So if you're running a mechanised list, like I am, you shouldn't expect to get too many bonuses to the casting value