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Wish. I have like 12 AOBR koptas and all except...3? of them have either busted or "repaired" propellers lol.
hmm, i should see if i can find an STL file to print new ones...

Koptas, boss, mek, kommandoz, tankbustas, and depending on how you looked at it the Nobz (warbike option) really needed new releases and we got buggies galore. Dont get me wrong i love them they are amazing but think we should have just gotten 2 of them and some new boxes for old stuff, ESPECIALLY with this whole "no model no rules" crap. Had that not been a thing i imagine most of us wouldnt even care we didnt get a Warboss kit.

 nflagey wrote:
By the way, do we know anything about mixing clans/kulturs in an army?
There was a question a few pages ago about putting non-Evil Sunz orks in an Evil Sunz vehicle ... not sure there was an answer ...

You can't.. Battlewagons can transport up 12/20 <CLAN> infantry models. This is visible in strikingscorpions video.. Stands to reason this is how it works with all transports in the codex.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
What seems especially stupid is that points are pretty much required for any build-your-own looted wagon design system which isn't horribly restricted. If I want to make something with loads of big shootas, each of them is going to be like 0.2 power. And they are going to have to give new costs to all the weapons which are 0 points in the codex.

The way it worked for the custom Land Raider rules was that there was a chassis with a transport capacity and adding weapons reduced transport capacity.

I'm not sure if that's the way it will go for Orks in CA or not.

It sounds like there might be looted wagons, looted carts and battle fortresses, which is exciting.

 nflagey wrote:
By the way, do we know anything about mixing clans/kulturs in an army?
There was a question a few pages ago about putting non-Evil Sunz orks in an Evil Sunz vehicle ... not sure there was an answer ...

Re, from the tactics thread, no. They only carry clan infantry.

Any word on what Bonebreakers and Battlewagons can have?
I have a battlewagon with a deathrolla and a killkannon, is that still legal?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Any word on what Bonebreakers and Battlewagons can have?
I have a battlewagon with a deathrolla and a killkannon, is that still legal?

Yes but probably not optimal.

You want those bone breakers breaking bones. In combat. With their rolla.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Any word on what Bonebreakers and Battlewagons can have?
I have a battlewagon with a deathrolla and a killkannon, is that still legal?

I'm pretty sure it is. But it can't be either a bonebreaka or a gunwagon then. So you won't get any of those bonuses, but the base battlewagon (which is 20 points cheaper than those variants) can have all the options that they could from the index. (except rokkits)

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Any word on what Bonebreakers and Battlewagons can have?
I have a battlewagon with a deathrolla and a killkannon, is that still legal?

Yes but probably not optimal.

You want those bone breakers breaking bones. In combat. With their rolla.

Well that's what you want a Battlewagon & deffrolla to do, too. Drive to enemy, unload passengers, crush enemy with deffrolla while the passengers also charge.

Although yes, I wouldn't put a killkannon there, but I modularize my options anyway.

tbh if the Killkannon is finally priced right, you betcha i'll put that on a Bonebreaker if i can.

If i have the option to thin numbers while i charge, or shoot somethign i dont wanna charge while charging something else, i will.

Orks are bullies in melee, they generally suffer if something can actually match them because they lack invuls (Ghaz, Deffskullz kulture, and the badmoon trait is the only melee-legal invul ive seen). They want to go after something they can immediately mulch, so if they do face something that can fight back theres nothing left EXCEPT that thing that can fight back.

Shoot the thing that can fight back so you can bully it when its at like 2-5hp. Dont bully it at full health.

 Jidmah wrote:
I rather see it as a fence with a "competitive players stay out" sign on it.

Or a sign that says "competitive players come on in and out up your feet"

the_scotsman wrote:
So, with the new "ere we go" rule the math becomes a bit easier to calculate on your odds to get in.

Here's the lowdown:

If you fail your charge, you can reroll either one die or both. It makes sense to reroll one die if one of your dice is a 4 (improves your odds to 33% success), a 5 (to 50%) or a 6 (66%). If you reroll both dice, your odds of success is the same as the odds on the original roll, or 27.8%.

Weighting for the probability of a failure with a 4, 5, or 6 showing on one die, your odds of getting in on the second roll when you can reroll either one or both dice is just about 40%. The compound probability of succeeding in the first roll (27.8%) or the second roll (40%) is about 56.8% - a bit better than 50-50.

When your charge can succeed on an 8 (you are Evil Sunz) your odds improve drastically. The odds of your second roll (rerolling one die if you get a 4, 5, or 6, rerolling both if you only have 1s 2s and 3s) is 52.8, and the odds of your initial roll is 41.7%. The compound probability of either roll succeeding is 72.5%.

So if you are deep striking and you are any klan but Evil Sunz: 56.8%. Reroll one die if you have a 3, 4, 5, or 6 on the other die.

If you are deep striking and you are an evil sun: 72.5%. Reroll one die if you have a 4, 5, or 6 on the other die.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As a side note, the release of looted vehicles is a perfect opportunity for Games Workshop to release an anti-recast advertisement in the same style as "you wouldn't download a house".

YOU WOULDN'T DOWNLOAD A CARNIFEX

i did the math (without +1 for evil suns) back when the index came out. (before they FAQ'd that you must reroll the complete roll)

BONUS

the glorious mathhammer answers if you should reroll all dice for charging or just one^^:

Spoiler:

to get a 9 with 2d6 the probabilty is 10/36. thats a bit less than one third. ere we go lets you reroll the charge distance. keep in mind that a reroll in the rulebook is defined as either rerolling one (or more) or all dice.
so should you reroll both or just one die? well it depends...

REROLLING ALL DICE NO MATTER WHAT:
probability of result beeing >= 9: 10/36 (charge succeeded on first try)

plus

probability of result beeing < 9: 26/36 (charge failed, so reroll all dice)
multiplied with
probability of result beeing >= 9: 10/36 (charge succeeded on second try)

= 10/36 + 26/36 * 10/36 = 620/1296 = 49 % so its fifty/fifty to make the charge...

but if you consider that the complete reroll is a less than one/third chance... we could simply keep a 5 (if we rolled one) and hope for a 4+ on the reroll of one die,because thats a flat fifty/fifty chance.
the probability of getting at least one 4+ when rolling below 9: 17/36

REROLLING ALL DICE ONLY IF NO FIVE WAS ROLLED:
probability of result beeing >= 9: 10/36 (charge succeeded on first try)

plus

probability of result beeing < 9 but at least one 5+ rolled: 10/36 (charge failed, but reroll only one dice)
multiplied with
probability of rolling a 4+ with one die: 18/36 (charge succeeded on second try)

plus

probability of result beeing < 9 and no 5+ rolled: 16/36 (charge failed, so reroll all dice)
multiplied with
probability of result beeing >= 9: 10/36 (charge succeeded on second try)

= 10/36 + 10/36 * 18/36 + 16/36 * 10/36 = 700/1296 = 54 %

5% better than rerolling all dice
by the way if you keep a 4 and hope for a 5+ on the reroll the chance would be 50,4%

got some different results. the best outcome is to try and keep a 5+ on the first roll and in case no 5+ was rolled on first try, reroll all dice (54% success rate)

should be alot better with an 8" charge... maybe i'll do the math later

 Vineheart01 wrote:
tbh if the Killkannon is finally priced right, you betcha i'll put that on a Bonebreaker if i can.

If i have the option to thin numbers while i charge, or shoot somethign i dont wanna charge while charging something else, i will.

Orks are bullies in melee, they generally suffer if something can actually match them because they lack invuls (Ghaz, Deffskullz kulture, and the badmoon trait is the only melee-legal invul ive seen). They want to go after something they can immediately mulch, so if they do face something that can fight back theres nothing left EXCEPT that thing that can fight back.

Shoot the thing that can fight back so you can bully it when its at like 2-5hp. Dont bully it at full health.

The bonebreaka can't take any of the big guns. That has been reiterated by several people and is as close to confirmed as we can get before actually holding the codex in our own hands. You can still take the small weapon options on it though, so 4 big shootas should be okay as an example

PiñaColada wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Any word on what Bonebreakers and Battlewagons can have?
I have a battlewagon with a deathrolla and a killkannon, is that still legal?

I'm pretty sure it is. But it can't be either a bonebreaka or a gunwagon then. So you won't get any of those bonuses, but the base battlewagon (which is 20 points cheaper than those variants) can have all the options that they could from the index. (except rokkits)

Ok great. I can still use my wagon then. I think I'll leave the turret loose, but glue the hatch on. Atm its in 3 pieces because I used it back when open topped, 'ard case (I think that's the rule that removed open topped) and destroying weapons was a thing,

RedNoak wrote:


got some different results. the best outcome is to try and keep a 5+ on the first roll and in case no 5+ was rolled on first try, reroll all dice (54% success rate)

should be alot better with an 8" charge... maybe i'll do the math later

did a quick runthrougth the numbers...
for the "keep a 4+ or if you didnt get one, then reroll all dice" approach, the chance to get off a 8" charge is 66%

mathspoiler:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
My wyrdboys are already Snake bites, so our own Loyal 32 of wyrdboys and Gretchin sounds auto include to me!

grots dont get the benefit of clan kultures.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
tbh if the Killkannon is finally priced right, you betcha i'll put that on a Bonebreaker if i can.

If i have the option to thin numbers while i charge, or shoot somethign i dont wanna charge while charging something else, i will.

Orks are bullies in melee, they generally suffer if something can actually match them because they lack invuls (Ghaz, Deffskullz kulture, and the badmoon trait is the only melee-legal invul ive seen). They want to go after something they can immediately mulch, so if they do face something that can fight back theres nothing left EXCEPT that thing that can fight back.

Shoot the thing that can fight back so you can bully it when its at like 2-5hp. Dont bully it at full health.

Going to be using that 2cp strat for an ork character to swing before it is removed when it dies. will REALLY come in handy.

yeah i think ork strategems are really great. if a bit overcosted...
i bet you will get to see at least 3x10 gretchin in literally EVERY ork army

its 90 points for 5CP... the two HQ's are quasi irrelevant... since you want them anyway
and the grots can shield important characters or infantry units... so they are not wasted either

EDIT:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
My wyrdboys are already Snake bites, so our own Loyal 32 of wyrdboys and Gretchin sounds auto include to me!

grots dont get the benefit of clan kultures.

yeah but you could give the weirdboy the snaklebite relic to make em fearless

RedNoak wrote:
yeah i think ork strategems are really great. if a bit overcosted...
i bet you will get to see at least 3x10 gretchin in literally EVERY ork army

its 90 points for 5CP... the two HQ's are quasi irrelevant... since you want them anyway
and the grots can shield important characters or infantry units... so they are not wasted either

EDIT:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
My wyrdboys are already Snake bites, so our own Loyal 32 of wyrdboys and Gretchin sounds auto include to me!

grots dont get the benefit of clan kultures.

yeah but you could give the weirdboy the snaklebite relic to make em fearless

Thats a really neat idea. To piggy back of f your grot cp farm.. can you use strats on grots? Can they mob up?

RedNoak wrote:


EDIT:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
My wyrdboys are already Snake bites, so our own Loyal 32 of wyrdboys and Gretchin sounds auto include to me!

grots dont get the benefit of clan kultures.

yeah but you could give the weirdboy the snaklebite relic to make em fearless

I think that's the warlord trait. The snakebites relic is that insane squig grenade (which is an excellent relic to be fair)

 Billagio wrote:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
So instead of make a model they simply remove the entry from the codex? I have models for which I cannot use in games now. Models I spent a LOT of time converting and scratchbuilding and painting. Warboss on bike, MA, Regular big meks not in mega armor (I have 5), paintboy on bikes... all just worth as much as as the space they take up in my case

Yes, its a gakky policy but Orks are not the first ones to be hit by this.

Heh. Ork players think they were hit badly by this policy? Compare it to Deathwatch, where wunderteam of Cruddace and Phil Kelly not only cut every single option from all units that wasn't physically in the box (so, for example, unit X could only take power sword, and only one, because there was only one sword in the box, never mind all SM hands, even primaris ones, are the same size and SM kits assumed bit borrowing for decades to not needlessly repeat stuff).

Even better, they were stupid enough in their cutting zeal to omit options that are in the box (see DW Vanguard Veterans, where lead model plastered on the front of the box has relic blade, assembly instructions explicitly tell you how to assemble model with relic blade, but these two morons didn't actually give you option to take said relic blade...), to the point some options were virtually monobuilds (like DW Venerable dreadnought with all of 2 options, when all other SM books had like 15...).

This was followed up with 8th edition Index where the nonsense restrictions were not only not dropped, but upheld in dumb way - say, SM dreadnought sheet kept 15 options in every single chapter but DW, where it actually had a frame saying 'ignore all these options, xeno hunters (who have access to every single item in the Imperium's arsenal) care not for such trivialities and never modify them'

Thankfully it was dialed down in DW Codex, but alas, milk was already spilt, since no one cared about that trial balloon and there was no massive backlash, the same policy started to appear elsewhere...

 Haighus wrote:
I was under the impression Warbosses were notably bigger than Nobz though? It isn't a problem for the other HQs- they are all Nob-sized, so kitbashing Big Meks is relatively straightforward.

My Black Reach Warboss is huge, bigger than my ancient MA Ghaz.

Yeah, I have no idea why people kept proposing this. MANZ are puny next to warboss, trying to make one from MAN kit would just look sad. Like trying to convert trukk from buggy.

Well, due to my army composition, grotz not having Kulture won't matter much.

Im leaning towards Evil Suns Battalion of 90 Boyz, Death Skulls Spearhead with 60 boyz and MSU Lootaz, and the Gretchin wyrdboy battery.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Wish. I have like 12 AOBR koptas and all except...3? of them have either busted or "repaired" propellers lol.
hmm, i should see if i can find an STL file to print new ones...

Koptas, boss, mek, kommandoz, tankbustas, and depending on how you looked at it the Nobz (warbike option) really needed new releases and we got buggies galore. Dont get me wrong i love them they are amazing but think we should have just gotten 2 of them and some new boxes for old stuff, ESPECIALLY with this whole "no model no rules" crap. Had that not been a thing i imagine most of us wouldnt even care we didnt get a Warboss kit.

i made propelers with paper and superglue. Roll the paper tight and flatten them, then glue on teeth bits. Paint black for the win!

RedNoak wrote:

RedNoak wrote:


got some different results. the best outcome is to try and keep a 5+ on the first roll and in case no 5+ was rolled on first try, reroll all dice (54% success rate)

should be alot better with an 8" charge... maybe i'll do the math later

did a quick runthrougth the numbers...
for the "keep a 4+ or if you didnt get one, then reroll all dice" approach, the chance to get off a 8" charge is 66%

mathspoiler:

Spoiler:

result is greater than or equal to 8 = 15/36
plus
result is less than 8, but one 4+ was rolled. so you reroll just one and hope its a 4+ = 10/36 * 1/2
plus
result is less than 8, but no 4+ was rolled. so you reroll all dice and hope its 8 = 9/36 * 15/36
equals
15/36 + 10/36 * 1/2 + 9/36 * 15/36 = 0,65972 or 66%

I am...very confused by your math.

The formula for compound probability is 1-((1/X)*(1/Y)*(1/Z)) etc for however many events you have. That's your odds of "At least one successful result"

If you're looking for a 9, it is a 27.8% chance of success. The inverse being 72.2%, or .722. 1-(.722*.722) = .4788. 47.9% chance of getting in if you have a two-dice reroll, but not the option to reroll a single die.

If you have the option to reroll a single die, it makes sense (better odds) to reroll if you get a 6 (66% chance), a 5 (50% chance) and a 4 (33% chance) because all those options are better odds than the odds of rerolling both.

If you weight the odds based on the number of possible failures that include one 6, one 5, one 4, or none of those numbers, you end up with a figure that puts your compound odds at about 58% chance with the "one or both" odds.

I'm not sure where you're going with your additive probability numbers here.

 Irbis wrote:

 Haighus wrote:
I was under the impression Warbosses were notably bigger than Nobz though? It isn't a problem for the other HQs- they are all Nob-sized, so kitbashing Big Meks is relatively straightforward.

My Black Reach Warboss is huge, bigger than my ancient MA Ghaz.

Yeah, I have no idea why people kept proposing this. MANZ are puny next to warboss, trying to make one from MAN kit would just look sad. Like trying to convert trukk from buggy.

Hmm yeah, you have a point. I did a quick size comparison between my metal 4th ed Warboss, the Big Mek and the Nob, and the warboss is considerably bigger. Never quite noticed that. Heh.
So that conversion is out. All the more reason to make a proper model.
Yeah, what they did to the Deathwatch sounds stupid.

PiñaColada wrote:

The bonebreaka can't take any of the big guns. That has been reiterated by several people and is as close to confirmed as we can get before actually holding the codex in our own hands. You can still take the small weapon options on it though, so 4 big shootas should be okay as an example

Striking Scorpion's video is very clear that the Bonebreaka can take the big guns. Hell the picture on the Bonebreaka page features a Battlewagon with a Killkannon on it.

https://youtu.be/qSYaAwhNhO4?t=1300 (21:40)

Not like the Killkannon is an amazing top-tier weapon anyway so denying it to the "melee wagon" would be kinda silly.

Nobody used it because it was priced like it WAS a super-top tier gun. And if it was hitting on 3s it might be, since it does hit kinda hard for its price, but only D6 shots on such a pricy gun with orky BS...no...i only have it on my Squiggoth because its MASSIVELY cheaper than having 2 supalobbas lol

Now what i REALLY hope for is the "gun wagon" gets into FW rules so i can use my Supakannon with the shooting twice rule. Oh...oh man that'd be awesome.

I think my biggest problem with the codex from what's been revealed isn't the fact that a lot of things are horribly priced - it's that you simply can't do fun combinations; because units are either Klan locked, or simply don't get Kultur.

I was looking forward to running Gretchin models (Grots, Kans, MekGuns); but what's the point if they don't get Kultur?. - I get that MekGuns would be insane with the Deathskulls Kultur; but that's not the point (even though it would be "FUN") - what about the RR1 from Bad Moonz? Or perhaps other benefits from other factions? Poor Grot Tanks/Grot Megatanks... all the best units are grots, lol. And by best, I mean fun/units that I like. :p

I want to build combos. I want to take units that could interact together. I want to "Shoot Twice" BadMoonz stratagem on Flash Gits.

fe40k wrote:
I think my biggest problem with the codex from what's been revealed isn't the fact that a lot of things are horribly priced - it's that you simply can't do fun combinations; because units are either Klan locked, or simply don't get Kultur.

I was looking forward to running Gretchin models (Grots, Kans, MekGuns); but what's the point if they don't get Kultur?. - I get that MekGuns would be insane with the Deathskulls Kultur; but that's not the point (even though it would be "FUN") - what about the RR1 from Bad Moonz? Or perhaps other benefits from other factions? Poor Grot Tanks/Grot Megatanks... all the best units are grots, lol. And by best, I mean fun/units that I like. :p

I want to build combos. I want to take units that could interact together. I want to "Shoot Twice" BadMoonz stratagem on Flash Gits.

Yeah, this is what really sucks.
I have over 18 killakans and I don't see a reason. To run them competitive or even for fun...too easy to kill.
I would think they would do something like this if the unit would be op if it had the traits, but besides the mek guns the rest are very meh and would've only been good if they had access to the traits.
Heck, the overpriced stomps has to be taken In a supreme cmd detach just to get its trait. This is ridiculous.

geargutz wrote:

fe40k wrote:
I think my biggest problem with the codex from what's been revealed isn't the fact that a lot of things are horribly priced - it's that you simply can't do fun combinations; because units are either Klan locked, or simply don't get Kultur.

I was looking forward to running Gretchin models (Grots, Kans, MekGuns); but what's the point if they don't get Kultur?. - I get that MekGuns would be insane with the Deathskulls Kultur; but that's not the point (even though it would be "FUN") - what about the RR1 from Bad Moonz? Or perhaps other benefits from other factions? Poor Grot Tanks/Grot Megatanks... all the best units are grots, lol. And by best, I mean fun/units that I like. :p

I want to build combos. I want to take units that could interact together. I want to "Shoot Twice" BadMoonz stratagem on Flash Gits.

Yeah, this is what really sucks.
I have over 18 killakans and I don't see a reason. To run them competitive or even for fun...too easy to kill.
I would think they would do something like this if the unit would be op if it had the traits, but besides the mek guns the rest are very meh and would've only been good if they had access to the traits.
Heck, the overpriced stomps has to be taken In a supreme cmd detach just to get its trait. This is ridiculous.

Agreed - Mek Guns are the only units that become insane if they get Kulture, and it's really only the Deathskulls kulture that puts them over the top - RR1's are great, but not game breaking. Grots and Kans getting kulture would make them better; but again, not overpowered. 3ppm 2t 1w models with a 6++/+; It's not like those already exist in Chaos flamelings or anything... and Kans would just get better; but since Kans are still a unit, Deathskulls is real weak on them. RR1's is not bad because of the potential volume of shots - but, it's no different than Guardsman/Marines, who get RR1's on BS4+, or better anyways. Kans with +1 movement would be fantastic, if only so you felt like you could use them as an alternative to 3 Dreads out of a tellyporta.

I don't think Kulture would break any of the Grot units - just make more fun. Mek Guns are an exception; but even then, it's only Deathskulls kulture that is the problem.

Do other armies lose out on traits because "it's thematic"? No. But Orks do... [and yes, I understand that some factions (marines) don't even get traits on everything; but that's an entirely separate issue].

fe40k wrote:
Do other armies lose out on traits because "it's thematic"? No. But Orks do... [and yes, I understand that some factions (marines) don't even get traits on everything; but that's an entirely separate issue].

The various Astartes Codexes want to have some words with you.

fe40k wrote:
Do other armies lose out on traits because "it's thematic"? No. But Orks do... [and yes, I understand that some factions (marines) don't even get traits on everything; but that's an entirely separate issue].

The Triarch Praetorians, Triarch Stalker and C'tans don't access to theirs for thematic reasons.

This seems like a pretty intense victim complex tbh