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The fact you don't have to check is why you have 42" flamers and why your method doesn't work.



Ok I can see this isn't working so im going to try and make this as simple as possible

Can you provide me a rules quote showing you check range or have to refer back to it at step 3+?

Please provide your answer in the following format

Yes (insert rules quote)
No additional information or explanation required

Or
No (I can't, silence also accepted)
No additional information or explanation required

any answer not in this format will be met by a repetition of this question and format.

Yes. The quotes have already been provided.
Your weapon must be in range to fire (pg13)

Range: How far the weapon can shoot.

and you or your opponent can measure range at any time (pg 2)

You can measure distances whenever you wish.

So if you attempt to fire your Flamer at 42", YOU may not have to refer back to the profile, but your opponent CAN before you roll any dice.
At which point the range WILL have been determined to not exist and deny your use of a 42" Flamer.

That, my good sir, is what prevents the rules from being broken.
There are 2 kinds of people in this world:
1) Those who can extrapolation data from incomplete information

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"Range how far a weapon can shoot" it is a characteristic definition. (When you read it in context)

It does not tell you when to check so does not answer the question. This is apparent when you include the full quote and not the cherry pick.

"Range: How far the weapon can shoot.
Weapons with a range of ‘Melee’ can
only be used in hand-to-hand combat.
All other weapons are referred to as
ranged weapons."

Nice try but fail and clear misrepresentation of a clause again


Can you provide me a rules quote showing you check range or have to refer back to it at step 3+?

Please provide your answer in the following format

Yes (insert rules quote)
No additional information or explanation required

Or
No (I can't, silence also accepted)
No additional information or explanation required

any answer not in this format will be met by a repetition of this question and format.

That quote is indeed a characteristic definition
It defines...how far a weapon can shoot, i.e. is ALLOWED to resolve it's attacks. Not in that range, can't resolve the weapon.
This range can be called into question at any time because your opponent can choose to measure it at any time.

There are 2 kinds of people in this world:
1) Those who can extrapolation data from incomplete information

Thank you for proving you are the second kind of person.

-

Please provide a rules quote showing where you have permission to extrapolate from incomplete information. # a joke thats what RAI is

It does not tell you when which was my question

You have however proved my point in that if you have to extrapolate from incomplete information your answer isn't RAW because the RAW is incomplete under your explanation

So The answer is No (I can't)

See did it have to take all day and pages of text to admit that it doesn't work under RAW

But, that was my point. We have complete information. You are just refusing to acknowledge it and basing your opinion on select bits of info that are incomplete.
And coming up with an answer assuming that information is complete and self contained (and it isn't).

You keep posing questions and I am answering them correctly.
Just because you disagree and refuse to acknowledge the answer, does not mean it isn't the correct answer.

I'd be fine if GW errata'd this to mean that weapons are selected at step 2, but as that isn't how they have written it (supported by the fact that weapons are selected at step 3), I doubt it will be. And if it is, it will be an errata to change the rules, not an FAQ to clarify them.
What is more likely is that RIS is FAQd to be triggers after the weapon is selected, but again, not currently RAW

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I acknowledge there is incomplete information I have done so a number of times

That doesn't change that your answer creates 42" flamers under RAW unless you answer the question.

So far you have provided many answer none of which answer the question because you can't which annoys you.

You have yet to provide any quote detailing a specific "when" which you need to answer the question. Otherwise your answer is RAI not RAW

clue it would have to be in the shooting section. If you cant the answer as it has always been is no

So I will try again

Can you provide me a rules quote showing you check range or have to refer back to it at step 3+?

Please provide your answer in the following format

Yes (insert rules quote)
No additional information or explanation required

Or
No (I can't, silence also accepted)
No additional information or explanation required

any answer not in this format will be met by a repetition of this question and format.

U02dah4 wrote:
That doesn't change that your answer creates 42" flamers under RAW unless you answer the question.

I have answered. When you attempt to resolve your flamer after step 3 after only measuring range at step 2, as your opponent I am allowed to measure and if outside its range listed on its profile, it won't be allowed to shoot.
It can only shoot within its range.

I can only reword rules so many ways so that you will understand them correctly
I am running out of ways to explain them and I don't want to keep copy/pasting the same response.
That just seems a bit like putting your fingers in your ears and saying "LALALALALALA". And I think we are better than that.

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U02dah4 wrote:
"Range how far a weapon can shoot" it is a characteristic definition. (When you read it in context)

It does not tell you when to check so does not answer the question. This is apparent when you include the full quote and not the cherry pick.

U02dah4 wrote:
Can you provide me a rules quote showing you check range or have to refer back to it at step 3+?

He gave you a quote directly after that quote that told you when you check - whenever you want. The quote was from page 2 of the Battle Primer. That applies at step 3 as well as any other time. He answered it. Quit being TFG and acting like he's not answering you

As he points out, however, you measure the range for the weapon at step 2, although the weapon is not locked in as you do not lock it in until you hit step 3, as per the rules for step 3.

You don't need to measure at step 3 because you measured at step 2 and know which weapons are in range.Anybody trying to choose a weapon that's out of range at step 3 can be rightly challenged for those shenanigans, and because of the rule on page 2 of the battle primer you are allowed to check the range again if you think the guy is trying to pull a fast one. You can see if it is in range, checking the profile for what the range is. This is assuming a sudden onslaught of Alhezhiemer's occurring between step 2 and step 3 so that you can't remember what you just measured.

U02dah4 wrote:
Please provide your answer in the following format

Yes (insert rules quote)
No additional information or explanation required

Or
No (I can't, silence also accepted)
No additional information or explanation required

any answer not in this format will be met by a repetition of this question and format.

Holy frell. You don't get to dictate format as well. He's answered, we've seen you ignore his answers. He shouldn't have to follow your format, basic reading comprehension skills should cover being able to read what he did actually write.

The rules from the shooting phase example turn pg 183:
The targets are 6" away, which is within range of the Plague Marines' boltguns.

Seems that would imply that a target has to be within the range characteristic of the weapon being used to fire.

For an even more black and white answer as to "why we can't have 40" flamers" page 175 of the book:
8. Weapons
Range: How far the weapon can shoot.

Your argument is that:
"Range: How far the weapon can shoot."
Has no impact on the range the weapon can shoot, because it doesn't explicitly say "Measure" or "Check",
"a model from that unit must be within
the Range of the weapon being used"
Does? That

Neither say "Measure" or "Check". Neither specify when you check, either. Both are limitations on what the player is allowed to do.

This thread has long since stopped serving any purpose...

 doctortom wrote:

Spoiler:

U02dah4 wrote:
Please provide your answer in the following format

Yes (insert rules quote)
No additional information or explanation required

Or
No (I can't, silence also accepted)
No additional information or explanation required

any answer not in this format will be met by a repetition of this question and format.

Holy frell. You don't get to dictate format as well. He's answered, we've seen you ignore his answers. He shouldn't have to follow your format, basic reading comprehension skills should cover being able to read what he did actually write.

And to make matters worse, I tried to be nice, play along and fit my answer into that format, and STILL my answer was rejected and twisted into the opposite answer.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
This thread has long since stopped serving any purpose...

Probably, but I do seem to get pleasure from arguing with people that just don't want to accept a correct answer.

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I think we're done here.