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Now I know more about them I like Primaris models. The more I know about them I hate Primaris force org and fluff.
I understand GW's need for a next generation space marine but they went the wrong way about it.
Bring back Guilliman, thats fine that is nice interesting fluff. However rather than actioning an army 10000 years in stasis the fluff should have gone something like this.
Rouboute Gulliman: My faithful battle brother, thank you for the situation update, but may I ask thee, how are you so small?
Marneus Calgar: Father, ten millenia has past and even our geneseed has weakened over time. Once our brethren were nine foot tall as you remember, now we are little more then men in stature, though the geneseed hold remains strong.
Rouboute Gulliman: Hmm. The Apothecaries must take sample of my blood and infuse it into the current stock of geneseed. and renew the strength as of the first generation. The next generation of Astartes to grow shall be as tall and mighty as the heroes of old.
Marneus Calgar: Father, as you will it, so it shall be done.
You have a primarch and now marines jump in size to 'true scale'. Simple, the true scale is just the scale marines should be, but after ten millenia this stature has worn out of them. Early generation CSM are regular marine size because they 'withered' over time.
As for the force org, Guilliman is the polar opposite of an idiot. He would insist on special and heavy weapons in Intercessor squads.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/06 22:57:04
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
danp164 wrote: I confess I haven;t read much on the Dark Imperium just caught the clip notes that Primaris were under construction for 10k years as a directive from the Girlyman to mech master Belly Crawl and now the king has returned the Primaris have been released to chapters as reinforcements, this is the sum total of my Dark Imperum Lore knowledge, I am ok with this... furious retconning.
From a model perspective however when compared to a regular human model Genestealer cultist for example they look bang on as a massive super soldier. My issue is I know have a squad of 10 intercessors (Thank you warhammer conquest) ad I thought I would add them to my small DW army (Just veteran 2 kill teams atm) but by comparison they make the standard veteran marines look.... um a little... off kilter? So i'm wondering ow others have dealt with it, Hope it grows on you? or just start a full Primaris SM army?
I ask because I'm going to be doing a slow grow league soon with a few new players and I'm wondering whether to double down on a mixed DW army or start full Primaris SM Army...
My issue with the primaris line is that all of the models are devoid of any *soul.* When compared to the kit of Sternguard, or to the more recent Centurion/Death Watch kits, they're just bland and generic scifi troopers with long boltguns and purity seals glued on. I've recently made the decision to reubild my olver 6th/7th edition Salamanders because i have the time, money and interest in doing so, before the old line is gone permanently!
In fairness many people where complaining that the latest SM models had too much bling I think giving us the marines in just their armor and letting us bling them out is proably the right way to go. bling and tabards can be added on after the fact. eaither with bits and peices collected from various other kits, some green stuff (for the record I suck with green stuff myself so I'm NOT saying "ohh you can just do anything with green stuff) or from forge world. one area where GW was smart was making primaris heads and shoulders interchangeable with old marine heads and shoulders. those are invariably the easiest and most common pieces for customization)
As someone who spent a lot of time "interesting-ing" up four ez-build primaris marines for my Deathwatch kill team, they're pretty much interchangable with everything bar legs and torsos to the current marine kits. I replaced their arms with spare Deathwatch arms, their heads with spare heads I had kicking around from various marine boxes, one of their backbacks to make him look space wolfy, it actually turned out pretty great.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
danp164 wrote: I confess I haven;t read much on the Dark Imperium just caught the clip notes that Primaris were under construction for 10k years as a directive from the Girlyman to mech master Belly Crawl and now the king has returned the Primaris have been released to chapters as reinforcements, this is the sum total of my Dark Imperum Lore knowledge, I am ok with this... furious retconning.
From a model perspective however when compared to a regular human model Genestealer cultist for example they look bang on as a massive super soldier. My issue is I know have a squad of 10 intercessors (Thank you warhammer conquest) ad I thought I would add them to my small DW army (Just veteran 2 kill teams atm) but by comparison they make the standard veteran marines look.... um a little... off kilter? So i'm wondering ow others have dealt with it, Hope it grows on you? or just start a full Primaris SM army?
I ask because I'm going to be doing a slow grow league soon with a few new players and I'm wondering whether to double down on a mixed DW army or start full Primaris SM Army...
My issue with the primaris line is that all of the models are devoid of any *soul.* When compared to the kit of Sternguard, or to the more recent Centurion/Death Watch kits, they're just bland and generic scifi troopers with long boltguns and purity seals glued on. I've recently made the decision to reubild my olver 6th/7th edition Salamanders because i have the time, money and interest in doing so, before the old line is gone permanently!
In fairness many people where complaining that the latest SM models had too much bling I think giving us the marines in just their armor and letting us bling them out is proably the right way to go. bling and tabards can be added on after the fact. eaither with bits and peices collected from various other kits, some green stuff (for the record I suck with green stuff myself so I'm NOT saying "ohh you can just do anything with green stuff) or from forge world. one area where GW was smart was making primaris heads and shoulders interchangeable with old marine heads and shoulders. those are invariably the easiest and most common pieces for customization)
I just mean options.
I can build a tactical squad with a melta, heavy bolter, sarge with a power fist and a grav pistol.
I can build an intercessor squad with boltguns. Sarges can take a power sword, but there isn't one on the sprue.
See what I mean? The Intercessors are bland. They're just so bland.
I can build a tactical squad with a melta, heavy bolter, sarge with a power fist and a grav pistol.
I can build an intercessor squad with boltguns. Sarges can take a power sword, but there isn't one on the sprue.
See what I mean? The Intercessors are bland. They're just so bland.
The power sword option is there because of the "30 Years of Warhammer 40,000" Intercessor Sergeant figure. And the Dark Angels Upgrade Frame. And the Ultramarines Upgrade Frame.
There's Power Swords available. Heck, the Primaris Captain has one and can be built without it.
Anyways, the "blandness" is fluff related. Guilliman resurrected the old Legion style of tactics where rather than mixing a squad, the squads get defined roles and loadouts.
I can build a tactical squad with a melta, heavy bolter, sarge with a power fist and a grav pistol.
I can build an intercessor squad with boltguns. Sarges can take a power sword, but there isn't one on the sprue.
See what I mean? The Intercessors are bland. They're just so bland.
The power sword option is there because of the "30 Years of Warhammer 40,000" Intercessor Sergeant figure. And the Dark Angels Upgrade Frame. And the Ultramarines Upgrade Frame.
There's Power Swords available. Heck, the Primaris Captain has one and can be built without it.
Anyways, the "blandness" is fluff related. Guilliman resurrected the old Legion style of tactics where rather than mixing a squad, the squads get defined roles and loadouts.
I would like to have power fist on the intercessor sarg. 3 Power fist attack on 4s, I would take it.
danp164 wrote: I confess I haven;t read much on the Dark Imperium just caught the clip notes that Primaris were under construction for 10k years as a directive from the Girlyman to mech master Belly Crawl and now the king has returned the Primaris have been released to chapters as reinforcements, this is the sum total of my Dark Imperum Lore knowledge, I am ok with this... furious retconning.
From a model perspective however when compared to a regular human model Genestealer cultist for example they look bang on as a massive super soldier. My issue is I know have a squad of 10 intercessors (Thank you warhammer conquest) ad I thought I would add them to my small DW army (Just veteran 2 kill teams atm) but by comparison they make the standard veteran marines look.... um a little... off kilter? So i'm wondering ow others have dealt with it, Hope it grows on you? or just start a full Primaris SM army?
I ask because I'm going to be doing a slow grow league soon with a few new players and I'm wondering whether to double down on a mixed DW army or start full Primaris SM Army...
My issue with the primaris line is that all of the models are devoid of any *soul.* When compared to the kit of Sternguard, or to the more recent Centurion/Death Watch kits, they're just bland and generic scifi troopers with long boltguns and purity seals glued on. I've recently made the decision to reubild my olver 6th/7th edition Salamanders because i have the time, money and interest in doing so, before the old line is gone permanently!
In fairness many people where complaining that the latest SM models had too much bling I think giving us the marines in just their armor and letting us bling them out is proably the right way to go. bling and tabards can be added on after the fact. eaither with bits and peices collected from various other kits, some green stuff (for the record I suck with green stuff myself so I'm NOT saying "ohh you can just do anything with green stuff) or from forge world. one area where GW was smart was making primaris heads and shoulders interchangeable with old marine heads and shoulders. those are invariably the easiest and most common pieces for customization)
I just mean options.
I can build a tactical squad with a melta, heavy bolter, sarge with a power fist and a grav pistol.
I can build an intercessor squad with boltguns. Sarges can take a power sword, but there isn't one on the sprue.
See what I mean? The Intercessors are bland. They're just so bland.
Yeah and those Tactical Squads are bad because they aren't defined. Having lots of options doesn't matter if 99% of those aren't taken.
Remember the Aura of Dark Glory compared to the Sigil Of Corruption in the 6th edition CSM codex? No you don't.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
I can build a tactical squad with a melta, heavy bolter, sarge with a power fist and a grav pistol.
I can build an intercessor squad with boltguns. Sarges can take a power sword, but there isn't one on the sprue.
See what I mean? The Intercessors are bland. They're just so bland.
The power sword option is there because of the "30 Years of Warhammer 40,000" Intercessor Sergeant figure. And the Dark Angels Upgrade Frame. And the Ultramarines Upgrade Frame.
There's Power Swords available. Heck, the Primaris Captain has one and can be built without it.
Anyways, the "blandness" is fluff related. Guilliman resurrected the old Legion style of tactics where rather than mixing a squad, the squads get defined roles and loadouts.
Granted. Still doesn't mean that Intercessor sprues have NOTHING on them of any interest. Just boltguns.
danp164 wrote: I confess I haven;t read much on the Dark Imperium just caught the clip notes that Primaris were under construction for 10k years as a directive from the Girlyman to mech master Belly Crawl and now the king has returned the Primaris have been released to chapters as reinforcements, this is the sum total of my Dark Imperum Lore knowledge, I am ok with this... furious retconning.
From a model perspective however when compared to a regular human model Genestealer cultist for example they look bang on as a massive super soldier. My issue is I know have a squad of 10 intercessors (Thank you warhammer conquest) ad I thought I would add them to my small DW army (Just veteran 2 kill teams atm) but by comparison they make the standard veteran marines look.... um a little... off kilter? So i'm wondering ow others have dealt with it, Hope it grows on you? or just start a full Primaris SM army?
I ask because I'm going to be doing a slow grow league soon with a few new players and I'm wondering whether to double down on a mixed DW army or start full Primaris SM Army...
My issue with the primaris line is that all of the models are devoid of any *soul.* When compared to the kit of Sternguard, or to the more recent Centurion/Death Watch kits, they're just bland and generic scifi troopers with long boltguns and purity seals glued on. I've recently made the decision to reubild my olver 6th/7th edition Salamanders because i have the time, money and interest in doing so, before the old line is gone permanently!
In fairness many people where complaining that the latest SM models had too much bling I think giving us the marines in just their armor and letting us bling them out is proably the right way to go. bling and tabards can be added on after the fact. eaither with bits and peices collected from various other kits, some green stuff (for the record I suck with green stuff myself so I'm NOT saying "ohh you can just do anything with green stuff) or from forge world. one area where GW was smart was making primaris heads and shoulders interchangeable with old marine heads and shoulders. those are invariably the easiest and most common pieces for customization)
I just mean options.
I can build a tactical squad with a melta, heavy bolter, sarge with a power fist and a grav pistol.
I can build an intercessor squad with boltguns. Sarges can take a power sword, but there isn't one on the sprue.
See what I mean? The Intercessors are bland. They're just so bland.
Yeah and those Tactical Squads are bad because they aren't defined. Having lots of options doesn't matter if 99% of those aren't taken.
Remember the Aura of Dark Glory compared to the Sigil Of Corruption in the 6th edition CSM codex? No you don't.
You can't force people to play the game in a way that doesn't go the WAAC rout. For the rest of us that don't care about that, and play in friendly groups away from the general competitive scene, we take all the options in weird and wacky combos.
Not withstanding, but what about modeling? Some people love to build and paint, and don't care about playing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/07 20:04:23
If you buy a box of tacticals, assult marines and devastators, the options you get are staggering. You can equip your dudes with all kinds of guns and pointy sticks. You can make custom characters with jump packs, thunderhammers, claws, pistols, swords etc to infinitum. Bling dudes out with banners, nades, holy texts and a huge variety of shoulder pads and helmets.
Without waac googles marines are a modellers, collectors and gamers dream come true. I dont see what is compelling with primaris. Their kits dont combine and their rules and bits leave bare bones options for customization. Others may like it but to me they are nowhere near as compelling as the regular marines.
I can build a tactical squad with a melta, heavy bolter, sarge with a power fist and a grav pistol.
I can build an intercessor squad with boltguns. Sarges can take a power sword, but there isn't one on the sprue.
See what I mean? The Intercessors are bland. They're just so bland.
The power sword option is there because of the "30 Years of Warhammer 40,000" Intercessor Sergeant figure. And the Dark Angels Upgrade Frame. And the Ultramarines Upgrade Frame.
There's Power Swords available. Heck, the Primaris Captain has one and can be built without it.
Anyways, the "blandness" is fluff related. Guilliman resurrected the old Legion style of tactics where rather than mixing a squad, the squads get defined roles and loadouts.
Granted. Still doesn't mean that Intercessor sprues have NOTHING on them of any interest. Just boltguns.
danp164 wrote: I confess I haven;t read much on the Dark Imperium just caught the clip notes that Primaris were under construction for 10k years as a directive from the Girlyman to mech master Belly Crawl and now the king has returned the Primaris have been released to chapters as reinforcements, this is the sum total of my Dark Imperum Lore knowledge, I am ok with this... furious retconning.
From a model perspective however when compared to a regular human model Genestealer cultist for example they look bang on as a massive super soldier. My issue is I know have a squad of 10 intercessors (Thank you warhammer conquest) ad I thought I would add them to my small DW army (Just veteran 2 kill teams atm) but by comparison they make the standard veteran marines look.... um a little... off kilter? So i'm wondering ow others have dealt with it, Hope it grows on you? or just start a full Primaris SM army?
I ask because I'm going to be doing a slow grow league soon with a few new players and I'm wondering whether to double down on a mixed DW army or start full Primaris SM Army...
My issue with the primaris line is that all of the models are devoid of any *soul.* When compared to the kit of Sternguard, or to the more recent Centurion/Death Watch kits, they're just bland and generic scifi troopers with long boltguns and purity seals glued on. I've recently made the decision to reubild my olver 6th/7th edition Salamanders because i have the time, money and interest in doing so, before the old line is gone permanently!
In fairness many people where complaining that the latest SM models had too much bling I think giving us the marines in just their armor and letting us bling them out is proably the right way to go. bling and tabards can be added on after the fact. eaither with bits and peices collected from various other kits, some green stuff (for the record I suck with green stuff myself so I'm NOT saying "ohh you can just do anything with green stuff) or from forge world. one area where GW was smart was making primaris heads and shoulders interchangeable with old marine heads and shoulders. those are invariably the easiest and most common pieces for customization)
I just mean options.
I can build a tactical squad with a melta, heavy bolter, sarge with a power fist and a grav pistol.
I can build an intercessor squad with boltguns. Sarges can take a power sword, but there isn't one on the sprue.
See what I mean? The Intercessors are bland. They're just so bland.
Yeah and those Tactical Squads are bad because they aren't defined. Having lots of options doesn't matter if 99% of those aren't taken.
Remember the Aura of Dark Glory compared to the Sigil Of Corruption in the 6th edition CSM codex? No you don't.
You can't force people to play the game in a way that doesn't go the WAAC rout. For the rest of us that don't care about that, and play in friendly groups away from the general competitive scene, we take all the options in weird and wacky combos.
Not withstanding, but what about modeling? Some people love to build and paint, and don't care about playing.
Well it sounds like if you cared that little, you'd model those Intercessors with the Tactical Weapons to give yourself a modeling challenge and then use them in a game that's friendly because nobody cares, right?
You also never answered the question regarding the Aura Of Dark Glory vs the Sigil Of Corruption.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Gitdakka wrote: If you buy a box of tacticals, assult marines and devastators, the options you get are staggering. You can equip your dudes with all kinds of guns and pointy sticks. You can make custom characters with jump packs, thunderhammers, claws, pistols, swords etc to infinitum. Bling dudes out with banners, nades, holy texts and a huge variety of shoulder pads and helmets.
Without waac googles marines are a modellers, collectors and gamers dream come true. I dont see what is compelling with primaris. Their kits dont combine and their rules and bits leave bare bones options for customization. Others may like it but to me they are nowhere near as compelling as the regular marines.
I agree, but we still have old school Marines, maybe they'll get ridda em maybe they won't. by my way of thinking the best way to enchourage things is buy what you want, if we're still buying tons of old school marines for the modeling options (I know I am) GW will take note of that\. the horus heresy referance IMHO is a good one,Primaris Marines are proably designed to cash in on the popularity of the heresy, and thus use a similer approuch to warfare
You also never answered the question regarding the Aura Of Dark Glory vs the Sigil Of Corruption.
in fairness thats not a very good question considering that neither of those where modeling options and where just something you wrote down on your list that it had.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/07 22:17:18
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Gitdakka wrote: If you buy a box of tacticals, assult marines and devastators, the options you get are staggering. You can equip your dudes with all kinds of guns and pointy sticks. You can make custom characters with jump packs, thunderhammers, claws, pistols, swords etc to infinitum. Bling dudes out with banners, nades, holy texts and a huge variety of shoulder pads and helmets.
Without waac googles marines are a modellers, collectors and gamers dream come true. I dont see what is compelling with primaris. Their kits dont combine and their rules and bits leave bare bones options for customization. Others may like it but to me they are nowhere near as compelling as the regular marines.
I agree, but we still have old school Marines, maybe they'll get ridda em maybe they won't. by my way of thinking the best way to enchourage things is buy what you want, if we're still buying tons of old school marines for the modeling options (I know I am) GW will take note of that\. the horus heresy referance IMHO is a good one,Primaris Marines are proably designed to cash in on the popularity of the heresy, and thus use a similer approuch to warfare
You also never answered the question regarding the Aura Of Dark Glory vs the Sigil Of Corruption.
in fairness thats not a very good question considering that neither of those where modeling options and where just something you wrote down on your list that it had.
However the same logic applies. If the option is useless, it's useless. Counts-As happens a lot with Marine armies for that reason.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Gitdakka wrote:If you buy a box of tacticals, assult marines and devastators, the options you get are staggering. You can equip your dudes with all kinds of guns and pointy sticks. You can make custom characters with jump packs, thunderhammers, claws, pistols, swords etc to infinitum. Bling dudes out with banners, nades, holy texts and a huge variety of shoulder pads and helmets.
Without waac googles marines are a modellers, collectors and gamers dream come true. I dont see what is compelling with primaris. Their kits dont combine and their rules and bits leave bare bones options for customization. Others may like it but to me they are nowhere near as compelling as the regular marines.
All of the amazing kitbashes that you can do with the entire Space Marine range (especially considering that shoulder pads and helmets are interchangeable, and weapons aren't hard to convert) can be done on Primaris models too. The main draw of the Primaris for me is their increased size, the plain-er armour (which I can bling and tacticool up as I choose, not how GW does, and the better quality of the models in general.
Sure, I can't have a storm shield on my Captain (which I always used to do). Does that mean I can't model it? Of course not - I'll just count them as a Gravis Captain instead.
Primaris don't have the same range of bits as the Mark 7 kits. At the same time, the Mark 7 kits look a little ridiculous next to guardsmen and a lot of things on the tabletop. Combining the two is the way forward.
Gitdakka wrote: If you buy a box of tacticals, assult marines and devastators, the options you get are staggering. You can equip your dudes with all kinds of guns and pointy sticks. You can make custom characters with jump packs, thunderhammers, claws, pistols, swords etc to infinitum. Bling dudes out with banners, nades, holy texts and a huge variety of shoulder pads and helmets.
Without waac googles marines are a modellers, collectors and gamers dream come true. I dont see what is compelling with primaris. Their kits dont combine and their rules and bits leave bare bones options for customization. Others may like it but to me they are nowhere near as compelling as the regular marines.
I agree, but we still have old school Marines, maybe they'll get ridda em maybe they won't. by my way of thinking the best way to enchourage things is buy what you want, if we're still buying tons of old school marines for the modeling options (I know I am) GW will take note of that\. the horus heresy referance IMHO is a good one,Primaris Marines are proably designed to cash in on the popularity of the heresy, and thus use a similer approuch to warfare
You also never answered the question regarding the Aura Of Dark Glory vs the Sigil Of Corruption.
in fairness thats not a very good question considering that neither of those where modeling options and where just something you wrote down on your list that it had.
However the same logic applies. If the option is useless, it's useless. Counts-As happens a lot with Marine armies for that reason.
I think you;re missing what I'm saying, you're trying to argue from a rules POV, but the person complaining about lack of options is thinking from a modeler POV, where you have less bits weapons etc to customize your unit.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Crimson Devil wrote: Modellers aren't restricted by the contents of the box. Unless they have a malfunctioning imagination.
Thats a strange thing to state. Can modellers appreciate a good box of miniatures or are they then malfunctioning? Should we all just buy greenstuff and copper wire and make our minis from scratch to be considered worthy hobbyists?
Gitdakka wrote: If you buy a box of tacticals, assult marines and devastators, the options you get are staggering. You can equip your dudes with all kinds of guns and pointy sticks. You can make custom characters with jump packs, thunderhammers, claws, pistols, swords etc to infinitum. Bling dudes out with banners, nades, holy texts and a huge variety of shoulder pads and helmets.
Without waac googles marines are a modellers, collectors and gamers dream come true. I dont see what is compelling with primaris. Their kits dont combine and their rules and bits leave bare bones options for customization. Others may like it but to me they are nowhere near as compelling as the regular marines.
I agree, but we still have old school Marines, maybe they'll get ridda em maybe they won't. by my way of thinking the best way to enchourage things is buy what you want, if we're still buying tons of old school marines for the modeling options (I know I am) GW will take note of that\. the horus heresy referance IMHO is a good one,Primaris Marines are proably designed to cash in on the popularity of the heresy, and thus use a similer approuch to warfare
You also never answered the question regarding the Aura Of Dark Glory vs the Sigil Of Corruption.
in fairness thats not a very good question considering that neither of those where modeling options and where just something you wrote down on your list that it had.
However the same logic applies. If the option is useless, it's useless. Counts-As happens a lot with Marine armies for that reason.
You are still weating the waac googles, in wich case a model is only as good as its rules...
For me the weapons play differently in the game. Flamers, meltas, plasmas, heavy bolters, fists, swords all act differently in the game wich is enough for me to use them all.
If the tournament optimal choice is to put nothing but plasmas on everything because of damage per points scenarios then the choice is there. That however is not how we all play the game. And if the rules was reduced to only one loadout option, it would make the game less compelling to me.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/08 10:22:54
I miss little pointless customisation. I wish sergeants had more options. In my old marine army I used to give every sergeant their own personalised loadout. It was basically just for funsies and modelling. I miss that. Primaris sergeants basically have an option to take a power sword or not (and bizarrely Reiver sergeants cannot even take that.) I would be satisfied if they just had full SMCC weapon options at leas, and perhaps different pistols.
And of course and even more importantly the characters need full weapon options as well. Lieutenants literally have less options than sergeants. They need to sacrifice their gun to have a sword, while doth sergeants and captains can have both...
Crimson wrote: I miss little pointless customisation. I wish sergeants had more options. In my old marine army I used to give every sergeant their own personalised loadout. It was basically just for funsies and modelling. I miss that. Primaris sergeants basically have an option to take a power sword or not (and bizarrely Reiver sergeants cannot even take that.) I would be satisfied if they just had full SMCC weapon options at leas, and perhaps different pistols.
And of course and even more importantly the characters need full weapon options as well. Lieutenants literally have less options than sergeants. They need to sacrifice their gun to have a sword, while doth sergeants and captains can have both...
It's also very clearly done for modeling purposes as a Space Wolf Primaris Lt can take a bolt carbin,e power axe and pistol. swapping out both weapons for a master crafted sword or rifle (which is actually a nice touch, specialization vs generalization)
Be nice if that option was given to everyone
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
The no model no rules thing bothers me a lot about the primaris.
Space marine officers should have pretty much full run of the armory. But they can’t unless there is a mini for it. They make a plasma pistol/powererfist captain though, and suddenly that’s an option. But only in that specific combo, and only for captains. The LT. is stuck with his gear. (But his smaller counterpart has full access).
It breaks immersion. There is no in-game reason for it.
Nevelon wrote: The no model no rules thing bothers me a lot about the primaris.
Space marine officers should have pretty much full run of the armory. But they can’t unless there is a mini for it. They make a plasma pistol/powererfist captain though, and suddenly that’s an option. But only in that specific combo, and only for captains. The LT. is stuck with his gear. (But his smaller counterpart has full access).
It breaks immersion. There is no in-game reason for it.
It is insane. I get not giving rules for stuff there are absolutely no bits for, but anything that can be kitbashed from that model range should be allowed.
Gitdakka wrote:Thats a strange thing to state. Can modellers appreciate a good box of miniatures or are they then malfunctioning? Should we all just buy greenstuff and copper wire and make our minis from scratch to be considered worthy hobbyists?
Modellers can, but they shouldn't say that they have no options when they totally have the option to kitbash and count-as.
Yes, the Primaris lack certain things from their kit. That sucks. Is it the end of the world or insurmountable? No.
Crimson wrote:I miss little pointless customisation. I wish sergeants had more options. In my old marine army I used to give every sergeant their own personalised loadout. It was basically just for funsies and modelling. I miss that. Primaris sergeants basically have an option to take a power sword or not (and bizarrely Reiver sergeants cannot even take that.) I would be satisfied if they just had full SMCC weapon options at leas, and perhaps different pistols.
And of course and even more importantly the characters need full weapon options as well. Lieutenants literally have less options than sergeants. They need to sacrifice their gun to have a sword, while doth sergeants and captains can have both...
Nevelon wrote:The no model no rules thing bothers me a lot about the primaris.
Space marine officers should have pretty much full run of the armory. But they can’t unless there is a mini for it. They make a plasma pistol/powererfist captain though, and suddenly that’s an option. But only in that specific combo, and only for captains. The LT. is stuck with his gear. (But his smaller counterpart has full access).
It breaks immersion. There is no in-game reason for it.
Crimson wrote:It is insane. I get not giving rules for stuff there are absolutely no bits for, but anything that can be kitbashed from that model range should be allowed.
However, that can be a slippery slope. I *can* convert a Captain to have a lascannon, or Guilliman's sword, but that's never been an option, not for regular Captains, and not for Primaris.
I *can* convert a unit of Conscripts to all carry plasma guns, or even plasma incinerators - but that's probably not what you mean.
I'm all for Primaris Sergeants, Lieutenants and Captains to have an expanded arsenal, but saying "if I can kitbash it, I can have it" is a slippery slope. I'd like Primaris leaders to have the range of power weapons, hammers, pistols, and things like shields and stuff, but only so far as the normal Captains get.
Also, Nev, the Lieutenant doesn't get full access. No access to storm shields or combat shields, which sucks.
I miss the option for Primaris to have those options, but nothing is stopping you modelling it on, and the lack of it isn't enough for me to dislike the Primaris range. It is one of the first things I would fix though.
Considering that the Intercessor box has everything else that can be equiped with I do find it a little confusing that the power sword isn't on the sprue.
The Newman wrote: Considering that the Intercessor box has everything else that can be equiped with I do find it a little confusing that the power sword isn't on the sprue.
It's on Ultra and DA upgrade sprue. Which makes it it even more bizarre that you cannot give it to a Reiver sergeant as the same bit fits just fine.
And why. Religious zealotry harnassed by a landed class of warlords as the empire disintegrated and the once thriving middle classes fell into poverty from which one escape was soldiering in crusades against heretics in order to prop up an economy dependent on perpetual war and pillage and prone to infighting... Hmmmmm. Suspiciously like the current status quo and increasingly less resembling the newly geld age of Girlyman resurgent with his shiny new boy toys.
Besides that tech history does not begin with Rome...
If you're going to go that route you might as well look up the "Carolingian Renaissance". Although as a general rule I prefer to compare the Imperium to the Byzantine Empire, so perhaps the "Macedonian Renaissance" would be a better fit.
Both of these essentially are examples of societies in medieval period (Indeed, the rule of Charlemagne is typically seen as the event that separates the "dark ages" from the "middle ages") Where one figure was able to rise to power, inflict crushing defeats on their enemies and allowing the internal culture and prosperity of the their territories to flourish in ways unseen since Rome. (The 'dark ages" arnt dark because of the loss of technology, they are dark because relatively speaking, there is less information about the people and events that occurred, as well as the break down of civil society, codified laws and trade. Not that they disappeared entirely, but compared to what came before and after it was certainly a slump.)
Guilliman is essentially one of these figures, an initiator of an "Imperial renaissance" even in the face of the dark Imperium. Whats interesting is that he basically lets the Imperium initiate a renaissance it could have always produced save for how regressive and tradition bound its bureaucracy was/is. He and Cawl are still mary sues, but its not like cawl is doing any real innovating - sure he takes credit, but all of his tech is still inferior to what the Custodians use, and the idea of a project to build better astartes keeps turning up in the fluff, from Corax, to Fabulous Bill () to the cursed founding.
In fairness many people where complaining that the latest SM models had too much bling I think giving us the marines in just their armor and letting us bling them out is proably the right way to go. bling and tabards can be added on after the fact. eaither with bits and peices collected from various other kits, some green stuff (for the record I suck with green stuff myself so I'm NOT saying "ohh you can just do anything with green stuff) or from forge world. one area where GW was smart was making primaris heads and shoulders interchangeable with old marine heads and shoulders. those are invariably the easiest and most common pieces for customization)
Heh... I'm.even trimming what little.bling there is off my primaris Definately going after the minimalist heavy armour on my dudes.
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
In fairness many people where complaining that the latest SM models had too much bling I think giving us the marines in just their armor and letting us bling them out is proably the right way to go. bling and tabards can be added on after the fact. eaither with bits and peices collected from various other kits, some green stuff (for the record I suck with green stuff myself so I'm NOT saying "ohh you can just do anything with green stuff) or from forge world. one area where GW was smart was making primaris heads and shoulders interchangeable with old marine heads and shoulders. those are invariably the easiest and most common pieces for customization)
Heh... I'm.even trimming what little.bling there is off my primaris Definately going after the minimalist heavy armour on my dudes.
TRIMMING OFF PURITY SEALS!? HERESY!
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
When working on a 30k conversion, I had to carve an aquila off of a bolt pistol (as they are not displayed on marines of the era, barring the rare case). All the time I was chanting to myself “I’m not falling to chaos, I’m not falling to chaos...” It just felt so wrong to do it.
When working on a 30k conversion, I had to carve an aquila off of a bolt pistol (as they are not displayed on marines of the era, barring the rare case). All the time I was chanting to myself “I’m not falling to chaos, I’m not falling to chaos...” It just felt so wrong to do it.
I'll even be carving the Aquilas off the chest plates and legs. I did a bunch of starcraft marines a while back as my marine army so he and to match the aesthetic of that force.
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
I personally like blinged out SM much better. If you're going to have space knights, why not go all the way with relics and such. Sure it wouldn't work for 30k, but I find it perfect for 40k.
What are the primaris marines who look like they’re farting in mid-air? Those are so ridiculous. The rest look fine. I wouldn’t even be opposed to adding some into my Black Templars (who would be opposed, themselves, I believe).
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
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