UPDATE: Calling Out A Cheater - The Response

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**Latro_**

To be fair you might be wise to remove it, with the name alone i did hardly any googling and found his email address and what might be family members etc on facebook .

this is the internet, some moron/s will go after him.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

I did email him to let him know and he had a community response

Hi XXX, XXX here.
First off I would like to apologise if you feel you have been cheated against.
I will address each complain you made against me, but first off I'll point out that there is a big big difference between cheating and making rules mistakes. Cheating is a deliberate action made with intent. If you believe this is something I did then I am frankly offended and can categorically state I do not cheat!!
You stated I checked my codex. Actually XXX had my codex next to you, and at many points YOU looked up the rules, not me. Since you had constant access to the codex, please don't blame me for reading anything wrong.

Now to get to your complaints.
1. You have made reference to orbital bombard. It does indeed hit on 4+. And i do not remember trying to ever hit a character with. Why would I? They are anti tank one use.

2. The ap-2 burst cannons. This was my mistake. Not cheating!! I have spent the whole of 8th using riptides, this is my first time ever using tigersharks.
But your claim it cost you the game is simply false. When a game is close, its close, when you have 1 model left and your opponent has most of his army left.... Its not close. So it didn't cost you the match.

3. The ap value of the seekers. This was done and pointed out in front of the T.O and frankly its rediculous you are mentioning a issue that was resolved that caused no problems, and I even let loose any missiles I had left. You then said in front of the T.O that you were.... Quote "Very happy with that"

4. Your mention of - 1 to hit I played right. Remember I had 2 commanders and they were always near your unit I made - 1. I'm not sure where your confusion with my play in this is, but I did play it correct. The only thing I can think is you may have interpreted my wording as a - 1 to hit for the unit. This is a misunderstanding.

5. Your complaint about my hidden fire warrior. This one makes no sense. You had a warlord near an objective. You asked if he was on the objective. I said yes. Because yes your warlord was in 3" of it. But my firewarrior controlled it. Thats tactical play and its not my job to tell you where my stuff is.

6. Wounds on longstrike. I can't comment on this because I don't remember saying that nor you doing 13 wounds right off. If I comment on this I would be lieing, so I can only apologise if this is the case.

Also I have all my books for all my units with me. Why wouldn't I.

Now while I understand loosing a game is never fun, I am a little upset given I really enjoyed playing you and our game. I have zero interest in. Cheating as it means any win I have is worthless. It degrades me as a player, and de values any standing I have.
So I once again state I did not cheat. I may have made a rule mistake, but these things do happen. And I apologise once again.

**Dai**

Seems like case closed with an apology. Take the bloody name down this is the internet in 2018 with all the insane entitled self righteousness that goes with that.

**BrookM**

OP, I have removed the name from the first post, please refrain from doing this in the future.

And to all participants in this thread: RULE #1 IS NOT OPTIONAL. Keep it classy, keep it on topic, keep it polite.

**Sleep Spell**

Clearly Imperial propaganda to discredit the greater good!

On a more serious note it's a shame you've run into such a dishonest opponent, but good to hear its the first major one in 10yrs of tournament play. Not sure calling him out by name in public forums is for the good of the community though...

Also must disagree with Bacon, if we can't trust other players at all it might as well be a contest of con jobs and sleight of hand.

**Niiai**

BaconCatBug wrote:
I saw your post on reddit, and I'll say here what I said there.

Instead of whining, why not just ask your opponent to show you the rules next time? It's your own fault you got cheated. To kick up a fuss after the fact just comes across as petty, especially since you're the one at fault.

I actually think this is a terrible suggestion, and a rather horrid post about the mentalaty of the gamr.

First off you do not know you are being cheated. Where do you stop assuming something is fine, and start asking questions? Do you calculate the opponents army list to make sure he does not cheat there? How about double cheking his movement, he could be cheating on the inches? Do the unit in question actually have the movement range stated? Do you check all weapon profiles every turn? As you can see this leads down a rabbit hole and we would just end up discussing semantics about where to draw the line in the sand about when to see if your opponent is cheating.

Instead, cheating should not be allowed. In Magic the Gathering Criss Picula organised a stand against cheating. The mentalaty was that cheating was like getting a foul in football. If it went unoticed all the better for the cheater. Picula instead wanted a better state of game where cheating is not allowed. The warhammer enviorment should thrive to that same degree of sportsmanship.

BaconCatBug saying it i the cheated persons fault for not notesign it is wrong. You are blaming the victim. You are saying that not notesign you got cheated is on you, as opposed to it being on the one who cheated. While I am not speculating in your motive statements like that can be interpreted by people who thinks cheating is 'just part of the game' and are fine doing it that you are on their side.

Calling some one out on a forum is a consquence of cheating. Once a message is sent you do not know how it will be interpreted by the reviever, the cheater being here called out. I am not a fan of the justice of the mob, but if no other revenue for stoping cheaters excists this is what happens.

As a last note, please do not condone cheating in your local gaming store or on tournaments. It is bad for the game, it should not be tolerated.

**Jidmah**

tneva82 wrote:
Problem though is that if you ask every single rule and stat every time good luck getting more than 2 turns.

Games(not just 40k) tends to work on basic assumption of trust.

I usually ask for my opponent's codex during their movement phase, when there is little to do for me outside of standing around and checking that they don't move more than they should.

If a rule strikes me as odd, I'll also interrupt the game and ask to see it, but that happens less than once per game.

**jeff white**

Grimtuff wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
I saw your post on reddit, and I'll say here what I said there.

Instead of whining, why not just ask your opponent to show you the rules next time? It's your own fault you got cheated. To kick up a fuss after the fact just comes across as petty, especially since you're the one at fault.

LOLWUT?

I... I have no words. I've heard of blaming the victim but this is ridiculous.

Yup. Pretty low.
Maybe a fellow rules manipulator?

**FatBoyNoSlim**

BrookM wrote:
OP, I have removed the name from the first post, please refrain from doing this in the future.

And to all participants in this thread: RULE #1 IS NOT OPTIONAL. Keep it classy, keep it on topic, keep it polite.

Understood, no argument from me and apologies for any inconvenience.

**BertBert**

Yeah, thats a ridiculous notion. In a competition each participant is responsible for their own conduct.

You can, of course, avoid getting cheated by second guessing everything they say, but that's hardly fun for anyone and should not be a requirement.

**lolman1c**

Someone said it best (this topic has become more about cheaters in general rather than this 1 guy so i'll refer to all cheating). When you enter a 40k tourney you most likely do it for fun. You would never suspect or even think the person you are playing would stoop so low as to cheat at what is effectively a game designed for children to young adults. So you take the person for their word and hope for the best that you are paranoid.

As for the apology, it's hard to tell. this is the usual list I see copy pasted every time someone gets accused. However, I wasn't there so I don't know. The evidence from past accusations leads me to believe it could be cheating but I can't call it either way.

**secretForge**

The person in question is a friend of mine,

I can tell you, that of the claims, the not having his rules, is not entirely accurate, the reason he got a codex from another table was because he was lending his codex to his friend on said table (who was also borrowing his army).

Of the other claims, I cant say one way or another because i wasn't there, but I will point out that at present the OP has made some very damaging claims about someone, with zero proof.

If any or all of these claims are truthful or not, it should not matter at this point because there is no way to verify them. I'll admit that my friend doesn't have the most stellar of reputations, because he plays hard, and sometimes that kind of effort doesn't win over people. but in the western world (and in the country that the event took place in), a person is innocent until proven guilty, we should extend this courtesy to our hobby also, because without it, we become a mob.

Lets treat people like human beings, and not ruin someones reputation, and hobby over a single game that went bad.

Regardless of my relationship with the accused, I would much rather believe in the altruism of a person, and mistakes, rather than that someone was actively malicious. And in the end, the OP could look back at this game, as just one game where he didn't get some ultimately meaningless points, and both he and his opponent learned some more about the rules.

**djones520**

So yeah, looking things up, the guy in question is in the top 100 on the ITC rankings.

Zero excuse for anything that OP referenced, especially not having a codex. Dakka may have an issue with sharing his name, but it's still being dragged out elsewhere. Dude will soon end up black listed, no question.

**Grimtuff**

secretForge wrote:

I can tell you, that of the claims, the not having his rules, is not entirely accurate, the reason he got a codex from another table was because he was lending his codex to his friend on said table (who was also borrowing his army).

No excuse, for either of them. You enter a tourney and you have your codex. End of.

If they both want to use Tau and only have one codex, tough gak. Either buy another one or use another army. That fact his "friend" has just happened to "borrow" his codex in a high stakes situation like this just looks so dodgy I wouldn't be surprised if they're in cahoots. I've played enough people pulling fast ones in my time to know when it's not a genuine mistake. Everything the OP says correlates with my own experiences with suspected cheaters.

**djones520**

Grimtuff wrote:
secretForge wrote:

I can tell you, that of the claims, the not having his rules, is not entirely accurate, the reason he got a codex from another table was because he was lending his codex to his friend on said table (who was also borrowing his army).

No excuse, for either of them. You enter a tourney and you have your codex. End of.

If they both want to use Tau and only have one codex, tough gak. Either buy another one or use another army. That fact his "friend" has just happened to "borrow" his codex in a high stakes situation like this just looks so dodgy I wouldn't be surprised if they're in cahoots. I've played enough people pulling fast ones in my time to know when it's not a genuine mistake. Everything the OP says correlates with my own experiences with suspected cheaters.

Yeah, this is utterly unsat. It reeks of gaming the system to try to gain advantage. Sorry bro, but none of your statement does anything to give this guy a pass. Especially the part where he blatantly lied about rules to gain advantage.

**Karol**

I don't want to break the forum rules, but I have an over all question about people caught cheating in US/UK tournaments. what is the sense of not showing their name/face? If people don't know who those people are, then the same people are going to cheat at other events or other games. They may rake up a huge toll of people having a very bad game expiriance. Plus am not 100% sure, but I think that people who dare to cheat at big events, where the chance to get caught is high, cheat in store games too. Wouldn't it be nice to have some sort of list of those people, at least for event orgs or store owners to look in to? If someone cheats and gets caught he shouldn't be given a free pass to play other games or just switching to playing other stores. Also a public shaming may stop more then a few people from trying to cheat, and people being more careful while they play to not end up black listed.

**secretForge**

Grimtuff wrote:
secretForge wrote:

I can tell you, that of the claims, the not having his rules, is not entirely accurate, the reason he got a codex from another table was because he was lending his codex to his friend on said table (who was also borrowing his army).

No excuse, for either of them. You enter a tourney and you have your codex. End of.

If they both want to use Tau and only have one codex, tough gak. Either buy another one or use another army. That fact his "friend" has just happened to "borrow" his codex in a high stakes situation like this just looks so dodgy I wouldn't be surprised if they're in cahoots. I've played enough people pulling fast ones in my time to know when it's not a genuine mistake. Everything the OP says correlates with my own experiences with suspected cheaters.

A high stakes situation? Its a medium sized uk event, not LVO.

lets re-evaluate, based upon your previous experiences, your'e also willing to bring into question the reputation of another event attendee. How dare someone borrow some stuff and share a rulebook with someone else in a relatively minor (no offence to the TO) event?!

I kinda get how someone would be mad about being cheated (and like i say, in almost all situations I prefer to believe in altruism rather than malicious intent), but just not having a rule book immediately available, but having it within 30 seconds of you, is completely unacceptable?

**Overread**

Karol wrote:
I don't want to break the forum rules, but I have an over all question about people caught cheating in US/UK tournaments. what is the sense of not showing their name/face? If people don't know who those people are, then the same people are going to cheat at other events or other games.

The problem with public naming and shaming includes, and is not limited to

1) Witch hunts. Someone gets outed as a cheater (false or true) and things go stupid. Someone finds their email and sends horrific hate mail; someone finds their facebook and spams it; someone finds friends or family and spams them; heck some people have been known to get their bosses called at their workplace about things totally unrelated to their professional work. Ergo it can spiral out of control - often within only a day or so - and yet do extreme lasting damage WAY beyond what any punishment should be for cheating at playing toy soldiers.

2) Opinion and Interpretation. Not everyone who gets one or several things wrong in a game is out to cheat; they could be playing a new army or such and make more mistakes than normal and get flagged as a cheater. Furthermore the person writing the accusation could be doing so from memory so already both sides could remember the same game in different ways. As a result even the accusations could be impossible to prove or disprove.
Note this one reduces only IF there is a live recording of the game itself, then at least there is a record of the game - now whilst this still isn't perfect, it at least reduces some of the errors of memory.

3) It's not really needed. Tournaments and major events don't need to publicaly out cheaters. Instead what SHOULD happen is that there should be a resource for tournament organisers to consult which allows them to review the playing history, and accusations or logged TO/Official rulings on players. Typically a cheater can only be told from a poor player when one looks at the long term history not one isolated game where the line between mistake and cheat can be very hazy and depends often on interpretation.

4) Again Witch Hunts - I'm highlighting it for a second time because this really is the biggest issue and the main reason why its a bad idea. Now yes you could argue that if option 3 were to come to pass then that formal setup would result in known banned individuals from events; but the whole approach of that is different. It's not "Dave" who was cheated in that recent game its "we've seen patterns and this is what we decided and that's it" which tends to result in a lot less drama. In fact the latter only tends to result in drama if the person who is accused MAKES it public drama on their own.

**secretForge**

djones520 wrote:
Grimtuff wrote:
secretForge wrote:

I can tell you, that of the claims, the not having his rules, is not entirely accurate, the reason he got a codex from another table was because he was lending his codex to his friend on said table (who was also borrowing his army).

No excuse, for either of them. You enter a tourney and you have your codex. End of.

If they both want to use Tau and only have one codex, tough gak. Either buy another one or use another army. That fact his "friend" has just happened to "borrow" his codex in a high stakes situation like this just looks so dodgy I wouldn't be surprised if they're in cahoots. I've played enough people pulling fast ones in my time to know when it's not a genuine mistake. Everything the OP says correlates with my own experiences with suspected cheaters.

Yeah, this is utterly unsat. It reeks of gaming the system to try to gain advantage. Sorry bro, but none of your statement does anything to give this guy a pass. Especially the part where he blatantly lied about rules to gain advantage.

my statement isn't meant to exonerate, its meant to simply point out that, there is 0 evidence, and all we have is the testimony of a single player. I don't intend to call into doubt his truthfulness either, I am merely pointing out that, we simply cannot know the exact truth of this situation, and therefore it would be wrong of us to arbitrarily mark this person as in the wrong.

If i had an argument with someone, and then that person accused me of assault, then without any evidence to back up this accusation, it should be ignored. Again I am not accusing the OP of lying, I'm just merely stating that our concepts of justice should require a proof, and without that proof we become savages and are thrown to the whims of the accusers.

**Karol**

You know very well it is not 30 sec, it wouldn't be 30 sec even if both players were playing on tables next to each other. And if a timer was being used, then checking the rules happens durning the asking dude timer. And that would be bad. Imagine the dudes would share something like a tape or dice with each other, would you be ok with it then?

**djones520**

secretForge wrote:
Grimtuff wrote:
secretForge wrote:

I can tell you, that of the claims, the not having his rules, is not entirely accurate, the reason he got a codex from another table was because he was lending his codex to his friend on said table (who was also borrowing his army).

No excuse, for either of them. You enter a tourney and you have your codex. End of.

If they both want to use Tau and only have one codex, tough gak. Either buy another one or use another army. That fact his "friend" has just happened to "borrow" his codex in a high stakes situation like this just looks so dodgy I wouldn't be surprised if they're in cahoots. I've played enough people pulling fast ones in my time to know when it's not a genuine mistake. Everything the OP says correlates with my own experiences with suspected cheaters.

A high stakes situation? Its a medium sized uk event, not LVO.

lets re-evaluate, based upon your previous experiences, your'e also willing to bring into question the reputation of another event attendee. How dare someone borrow some stuff and share a rulebook with someone else in a relatively minor (no offence to the TO) event?!

I kinda get how someone would be mad about being cheated (and like i say, in almost all situations I prefer to believe in altruism rather than malicious intent), but just not having a rule book immediately available, but having it within 30 seconds of you, is completely unacceptable?

Firstly it was a GT. That's a big event. It shouldn't matter period though, if it was a little 8 man RTT, or a 350 man event. His actions affected this guy negatively. We can assume it affected all 5 of his opponents that way. Then you look at everyone else who were jostled around in placings because of his cheating. It tends to effect the entire event.

Secondly, the rules stated to bring a codex. He broke that rule the second he showed up.

Right here if you want to call it into question.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sATcKtUjEfeVVdSxA31Z1f5scpZcymKv/view

Thirdly when he did look at a book, per the OP, he lied about what was in it. End of story, plain as day, clear cut cheating.

All that being said, a lot of this rests on the TO's shoulders as well. After making multiple trips to the table and saying "you caught him using his rules wrong to late, keep playing"... that's garbage. A clear pattern was being established and they just ignored it.

**Ice_can**

Karol wrote:
I don't want to break the forum rules, but I have an over all question about people caught cheating in US/UK tournaments. what is the sense of not showing their name/face? If people don't know who those people are, then the same people are going to cheat at other events or other games. They may rake up a huge toll of people having a very bad game expiriance. Plus am not 100% sure, but I think that people who dare to cheat at big events, where the chance to get caught is high, cheat in store games too. Wouldn't it be nice to have some sort of list of those people, at least for event orgs or store owners to look in to? If someone cheats and gets caught he shouldn't be given a free pass to play other games or just switching to playing other stores. Also a public shaming may stop more then a few people from trying to cheat, and people being more careful while they play to not end up black listed.

The issue isn't so much with TO's having a list of confirmed cheaters that are excluded.
But public "outing" of people especially with real names can have some horrible unintended consequences.
Most people go oh remeber name If I play against him check his rules and all is fine.

Its the minority that go full psycho that are the problem, they start harassing them and their family via social media, email their employer. Some are even crazy enough to send actual death threats(not heard of this in 40K yet) to people, heck thats esentially what swatting is in the states and people have died as a result. Loosing your life for beating some dude at fifa shows something very wrong with modern society.

**Slipspace**

Karol wrote:
I don't want to break the forum rules, but I have an over all question about people caught cheating in US/UK tournaments. what is the sense of not showing their name/face? If people don't know who those people are, then the same people are going to cheat at other events or other games. They may rake up a huge toll of people having a very bad game expiriance. Plus am not 100% sure, but I think that people who dare to cheat at big events, where the chance to get caught is high, cheat in store games too. Wouldn't it be nice to have some sort of list of those people, at least for event orgs or store owners to look in to? If someone cheats and gets caught he shouldn't be given a free pass to play other games or just switching to playing other stores. Also a public shaming may stop more then a few people from trying to cheat, and people being more careful while they play to not end up black listed.

The problem is that stating an allegation as if it's fact can do damage to someone's reputation that is very difficult to repair, which is why naming people is generally not done - a single false allegation can cause a lot of problems and it's pretty easy to maliciously accuse someone who has done nothing wrong (not saying that's what happened here). It's extremely difficult to repair that reputation after it's revealed the original allegation was a lie. You're correct, though, that this also helps out genuine cheats because they get to hide behind anonymity.

One of the interesting things that came out of the last two big cheating scandals at the LGT and ATC is that on both occasions the person or people involved apparently had a bit of a reputation for bending the rules. This was fairly common knowledge among regular tournament attendees. There was even one anecdote from a contributor on the FLG website that they requested a judge stationed at their table for a whole game at a big tournament because they were playing one of these guys who everyone knew played quite loose with the rules. The judge agreed after hearing who the player was. That doesn't paint the whole tournament scene in a good light, IMO.

I'd love to have some middle ground between the two extremes of complete anonymity and a Wild West where accusations can fly around without proof. I think having TOs adopt a system for reporting potential cheating and sharing that information with each other would be a good step. At the moment a lot of incidents are dealt with in isolation but building up a picture of repeated offences might help weed out the unscrupulous players. Also, anyone caught unequivocally cheating absolutely should be named and shamed. Again, you need a system for determining the threshold for that, but I think it's in the community's interests to know who these people are.

**Adeptus Doritos**

Ice_can wrote:
Its the minority that go full psycho that are the problem, they start harassing them and their family via social media, email their employer. Some are even crazy enough to send actual death threats(not heard of this in 40K yet) to people, heck thats esentially what swatting is in the states and people have died as a result. Loosing your life for beating some dude at fifa shows something very wrong with modern society.

We have just enough "That Guy" in my area that this can become an issue. Not to the degree of SWATting, but we've had dudes start rumors that someone is a 'cheater' in some way, and without it being a big deal (dude was 2 points over because he forgot to take some Storm Bolter off or something)- and it's followed them to a point where they're banned from all tournaments in the area over a trivial mistake.

**Karol**

But public "outing" of people especially with real names can have some horrible unintended consequences.

And that is a a bad thing ? You do something wrong, you get punished. Don't want to get punished, don't break the law or if you still want to do it, learn to not get caught.

Most people go oh remeber name If I play against him check his rules and all is fine.

I am not a long time player, but from what I read about cheaters in w40k, it seems like people cheat at some events, then play other games or play at events run by other people constantly. Till something HUGE happens and they are caught on tape, and then all of the sudden half the internet points out that everyone knew that they do shady stuff.

Loosing your life for beating some dude at fifa shows something very wrong with modern society.

I don't understand the argument. First of all crazy people are going to do crazy things, no matter what rules are in effect. And in the American shoting example, the dudes opponents did not cheat, the guy had psychological problems and couldn't handle losing on that day. Also with the amount of dread socking being given as an example of how to deal with cheaters, sweaty people, people playing the game the wrong way, I thought that people playing GW games are used to physical threat. You know the same way, if you go to a football match and the teams hooligans have a fued, you assume there chance of getting beat up is there and probablly high, no matter if you yourself are an active hooligan or not.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Adeptus Doritos wrote:

We have just enough "That Guy" in my area that this can become an issue. Not to the degree of SWATting, but we've had dudes start rumors that someone is a 'cheater' in some way, and without it being a big deal (dude was 2 points over because he forgot to take some Storm Bolter off or something)- and it's followed them to a point where they're banned from all tournaments in the area over a trivial mistake.

Then either learn to not make mistakes, let people check your list if you can't do it yourself or don't play at events. Playing at events is not an obligatory thing to do.
I mean imagine someone in any type of sports, coming up and saying that he forgot that he was taking steroids or something like that, plus it is no biggy he is big without it anyway, it only gives him a small edge?

What if in one of the dudes games the wounds from the SB ment a squad went under half strenght, and wasn't able to score, and the game ended with a 13/7 instead of a 17/3 ? Just 2 points and the difference in rank could be huge.

**Overread**

Karol wrote:
But public "outing" of people especially with real names can have some horrible unintended consequences.

And that is a a bad thing ? You do something wrong, you get punished. Don't want to get punished, don't break the law or if you still want to do it, learn to not get caught.

**Slipspace**

Karol wrote:
But public "outing" of people especially with real names can have some horrible unintended consequences.

And that is a a bad thing ? You do something wrong, you get punished. Don't want to get punished, don't break the law or if you still want to do it, learn to not get caught.

You do know people can lie, right? Or that people can misremember details, or simply be wrong about what happened? The problem with outing people is we can't know at the point they are outed whether the allegation is genuine or not. The problem isn't with what happens to genuine cheats, it's what happens to those wrongly accused.

**Adeptus Doritos**

Karol wrote:
I don't understand the argument. First of all crazy people are going to do crazy things, no matter what rules are in effect. And in the American shoting example, the dudes opponents did not cheat, the guy had psychological problems and couldn't handle losing on that day. Also with the amount of dread socking being given as an example of how to deal with cheaters, sweaty people, people playing the game the wrong way, I thought that people playing GW games are used to physical threat. You know the same way, if you go to a football match and the teams hooligans have a fued, you assume there chance of getting beat up is there and probablly high, no matter if you yourself are an active hooligan or not.

Dude, people are crazy. Years ago, a relatively small MMORPG was shut down, but there were private servers out there capable of hosting games for a select few. You had to be invited, never share any links, and everyone was screened. They were trying to avoid the toxic players showing up. I invited a guy I had become friends with a year or so after the game shut down, and the dude was pretty chill... so I invited him, and he knew about it. Well, come to find out he had multiple accounts banned from the original game and was a pretty toxic person. He got declined, and I had to tell him. I had to tell him up front, "Your behavior was unacceptable, and if I would have known some of the things you did on your other accounts I'd have never invited you to begin with. Good luck finding a different server."

He demanded links. I declined. Then it got scary. Not just him, but DOZENS of people published my information online. This guy had a small cult of followers that were just as fethed up as he was, and they came at me and it is quite honestly one of the most harrowing experiences of my life other than actual combat in Afghanistan. Let that sink in.

Workplace, names of my family members, where I lived, my phone number, emails, pictures of my home and vehicles, who I was dating- I had to have a 3-year online blackout and move. It was scary enough that I had a gun with me everywhere I went. I had to jump through hoops and delete a lot of my online work and spend quite a bit of money to clean my tracks. And even through that, I'm sure that the only reason that it stopped was because the dude got caught taking pictures of his stepkids in very disturbing activities (related to the online activities I'd been told he'd done).

This was over a dead MMORPG. And not only that- one that had multiple bootleg private servers out there he could have found.

...Sorry, but you just never know who's psycho and how many supporters they have.

**Pancakey**

jeff white wrote:
Grimtuff wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
I saw your post on reddit, and I'll say here what I said there.

Instead of whining, why not just ask your opponent to show you the rules next time? It's your own fault you got cheated. To kick up a fuss after the fact just comes across as petty, especially since you're the one at fault.

LOLWUT?

I... I have no words. I've heard of blaming the victim but this is ridiculous.

Yup. Pretty low.
Maybe a fellow rules manipulator?

Given the smattering of of recent events (that were reported) don’t you mean, “He must be a top tournament winning wh40k player?”

**Sleep Spell**

secretForge wrote:

If any or all of these claims are truthful or not, it should not matter at this point because there is no way to verify them. I'll admit that my friend doesn't have the most stellar of reputations, because he plays hard, and sometimes that kind of effort doesn't win over people.

A fair number of people who go to tournaments 'play hard' usually most of them don't have a poor rep; that's kind of a bad omen to begin with. When the same hard playing person doesn't know his main army's own rules it becomes kind of suspicious.

How is it the first time playing seekers, tigersharks, FW and stratagems and at the same time one feels comfortable enough to dismiss the opponents doubts? Why pick up the codex if you're not going to bother getting the right values/rules?

If the casual teen who plays once every couple of weeks would have made fewer mistakes by checking his dex now and again, most will assume its malicious rather than just a series of blunders.

**lolman1c**

This is the internet. People forget how crazy other people can be. I've seen people murdered over stuff online (actually killed by people who think they're just serving justice over a stupid game. Let's not forget the recent e sports shootings).

It's why I'm okay with people hiding their identity or refusing to be a part of events (good example is when a female gamers boyfriend was harassed by people online who would send prostitutes and private detectives to them in an attempt to split them up). Any mention of me saying he should be called out I now redact. I meant cheaters shouod be called out in an official sense to the right authority.

As for this dude, I hear Mordian only did this video and announcement because several people have come forward with similar experiences and asked him to do it. I also hear (not sure how true this is so could do with someone sending sources or something) that thr guy in question and threatened violence in the past to previous accusers. But again, no idea how true this is so can't comment but would be great if someone could correct me on this as I'd hate to find out that was true.