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nonsense Welsh Elfs is flat out unacceptable And Kiwi Blackclads, inconceivable

Not sure if sarcastic or agreeing???

Both Shanara and Into the Badlands have a very mixed cast and it works very well - but it is post Apocalypse.

I don't know the Witcher world at all - if its supposed to be the usual quasi European medieval fantasy world than the any unusual ethnicity should be part of the character I think and part of their interactions with the majority of people they meet.

If its just a fantasy world well then anything pretty much goes unless there is a specific reason to have people of one racial background or another then you can probably just go with it.

For instance if the world is more like the Roman Empire it would be quite diverse as movement of people is quite large scale - particularly with the slave trade and the recruitment of the Legions/Auxiliaries who are normally posted well away from home.

 Mr Morden wrote:

nonsense Welsh Elfs is flat out unacceptable And Kiwi Blackclads, inconceivable

Not sure if sarcastic or agreeing???

Both Shanara and Into the Badlands have a very mixed cast and it works very well - but it is post Apocalypse.

I don't know the Witcher world at all - if its supposed to be the usual quasi European medieval fantasy world than the any unusual ethnicity should be part of the character I think and part of their interactions with the majority of people they meet.

If its just a fantasy world well then anything pretty much goes unless there is a specific reason to have people of one racial background or another then you can probably just go with it.

For instance if the world is more like the Roman Empire it would be quite diverse as movement of people is quite large scale - particularly with the slave trade and the recruitment of the Legions/Auxiliaries who are normally posted well away from home.

I remember a CDPR dev saying something along the lines of "We're sorry we don't have a history of mass importing african slaves so our fantasy novels don't have any."

Joking,, gave up on Shannara after a few episodes, which is unusual as I'll usually watch any old guff with pretty ladies in, remember giving up on the book too so guess its not my thing

Badlands is a fun hodge poch of bonkerness hokum

 Mr Morden wrote:

nonsense Welsh Elfs is flat out unacceptable And Kiwi Blackclads, inconceivable

Not sure if sarcastic or agreeing???

Both Shanara and Into the Badlands have a very mixed cast and it works very well - but it is post Apocalypse.

I don't know the Witcher world at all - if its supposed to be the usual quasi European medieval fantasy world than the any unusual ethnicity should be part of the character I think and part of their interactions with the majority of people they meet.

If its just a fantasy world well then anything pretty much goes unless there is a specific reason to have people of one racial background or another then you can probably just go with it.

For instance if the world is more like the Roman Empire it would be quite diverse as movement of people is quite large scale - particularly with the slave trade and the recruitment of the Legions/Auxiliaries who are normally posted well away from home.

The history of the world involves an event where many alternate realities overlap with each other and creatures and people from all those worlds begin to bleed into each other. The reason vampires, elves, dwarves, trolls, giants, wyverns, dragons etc etc etc... exist is because a long time ago this event happened and bits and pieces of every world got mashed together.

It takes place in a small corner of "our" world but with events like that race in terms of skin tone is meaningless.




Especially because the land mass and nations of the witcher are all fictional. One place is kind of based on a romanticized version of France. But it's not actually France. One place is kind of based on the nordic vikings. But it's a big island like Brittan.

The girl in question, Ciri, has the ability to travel between worlds at will and it's heavily implied that during a long absence she had been to sci fi (like energy swords and laser pistols) and wierd war ii and all kinds of places.

Literally, ANYTHING goes in the world of the witcher.

 Lance845 wrote:
Literally, ANYTHING goes in the world of the witcher.

The same could be said of Marvel or DC and I highly doubt any of their black characters would be racewashed, while multiple white characters have been.

The issue isn't the racebending, it's the racism behind it that boils my noodles.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

nonsense Welsh Elfs is flat out unacceptable And Kiwi Blackclads, inconceivable

Not sure if sarcastic or agreeing???

Both Shanara and Into the Badlands have a very mixed cast and it works very well - but it is post Apocalypse.

I don't know the Witcher world at all - if its supposed to be the usual quasi European medieval fantasy world than the any unusual ethnicity should be part of the character I think and part of their interactions with the majority of people they meet.

If its just a fantasy world well then anything pretty much goes unless there is a specific reason to have people of one racial background or another then you can probably just go with it.

For instance if the world is more like the Roman Empire it would be quite diverse as movement of people is quite large scale - particularly with the slave trade and the recruitment of the Legions/Auxiliaries who are normally posted well away from home.

I remember a CDPR dev saying something along the lines of "We're sorry we don't have a history of mass importing african slaves so our fantasy novels don't have any."

CDPR? Sorry not getting this ?

 Mr Morden wrote:
CDPR? Sorry not getting this ?

CD Projekt Red, the Polish Developers of the Witcher games.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Literally, ANYTHING goes in the world of the witcher.

The same could be said of Marvel or DC and I highly doubt any of their black characters would be racewashed, while multiple white characters have been.

The issue isn't the racebending, it's the racism behind it that boils my noodles.

And I gave you an example of a black comic character that was race bent to be white.

And the Ancient One was a Tibetan Monk stereotype that was race bent to be a one of the most clearly Irish chicks in acting.

I got another one! Michael Clark Duncan was King Pin in the Dare Devil movie. To the anger of nobody.

Again, the issue with most black characters in comics is them being black is an actual part of their character. Luke Cage wouldn't BE Luke Cage if he wasn't black. But Hiemdal? In what way does his skin color inform any aspect of his alien life/personality?

Likewise if they get around to Khamala Khan Miss Marvel, she will have to be cast as some kind of middle eastern. Her Muslum Pakistani/American heritage is a major component of her character. It informs some of the troubles she faces, the choices she makes, and the way she interacts with different people. You can't have that character without her race. So what White marvel character is defined by their whiteness? Who faces challeneges and has opinions informed by their skin tone? Only thing I can come up with is race based mobs. Anyone who is a member of the Maggia would need to be able to pass for itallian.

I am not saying that racism ISN'T behind the choice to cast Ciri as not white. But what I am saying is that we have no evidence to suggest that racism IS behind it either and assuming it is just stupid.

But Idris Elba is Idris Elba. I would allow him to portray my Grandmother in a movie about my life without a second thought.

I think the problem some people are having is that the casting call for Ciri is specifically for minorities. If it were an open casting call and the best actress they chose was a minority, I think people would have less of a problem.
Me, I just want a good show. I don't expect them to be obsessively true to the material and get an actress with a 22-inch waist to play Triss, for example.

 Lance845 wrote:
So what White marvel character is defined by their whiteness?

Captain America. You want to see Marvel fans hit the ceiling, portray Cap as anything other than a straight-laced white boy.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Me, I just want a good show. I don't expect them to be obsessively true to the material and get an actress with a 22-inch waist to play Triss, for example.

They've already cast Henry Cavill, so Amy Adams is an option.

Iron Fist was pretty defined by his whiteness, and that didn't stop the far left from screeching about it when Netflix made a show.

 dogma wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
So what White marvel character is defined by their whiteness?

Captain America. You want to see Marvel fans hit the ceiling, portray Cap as anything other than a straight-laced white boy.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Me, I just want a good show. I don't expect them to be obsessively true to the material and get an actress with a 22-inch waist to play Triss, for example.

They've already cast Henry Cavill, so Amy Adams is an option.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaiah_Bradley






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 BaconCatBug wrote:
Iron Fist was pretty defined by his whiteness, and that didn't stop the far left from screeching about it when Netflix made a show.

And they were idiots.

Point of interest: a bigger problem to me then seems to be that black comic book characters are, apparently, defined by being black and hence pretty immune to being whitewashed.
Except maybe the Warmachine, whose main characteristic is that he's a soldier.

White men complaining about BAME representation opportunites again? I despair.

It’s pretty sad that people get bent out of shape about diverse casting. There are decades worth of films with just white people in if that’s what floats your boat; go watch some of those. Diversity and representation in media are important.

I'd rather they stick to white folk the same way I'd rather Asian derived movies stick to Asian folk. The stories come from Poland and Poland isn't really a very ethnically diverse nation. That said I don't really care as long as turns out to be good anyway.

Personally I struggle to see Henry Cavill as a good Geralt, so I'm not filled with confidence already.

Agreed. Ciri is a Slav/Nordic analog. It's going to be a real hard sale for me to believe this casting call is anything but a "we can't have an all white cast" decision.

 Lance845 wrote:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaiah_Bradley

Bradley's mind was damaged because he was a victim of a test for recreating the super-soldier serum, an arc which ends with Steve Rogers being the hero.

 djones520 wrote:
Agreed. Ciri is a Slav/Nordic analog. It's going to be a real hard sale for me to believe this casting call is anything but a "we can't have an all white cast" decision.

All the significant characters in the story are Slavic, it was written by a Slav for Slavs; but Netflix is a much larger audience.

Bran Dawri wrote:
Point of interest: a bigger problem to me then seems to be that black comic book characters are, apparently, defined by being black and hence pretty immune to being whitewashed.
Except maybe the Warmachine, whose main characteristic is that he's a soldier.

Correct. It HAS been an issue.

Especially when its their ONLY defining characteristic.

A lot of characters, especially those with their origins in the 60s/70s are the worst offenders but thankfully many of them have grown into being something more then that in the last 10-20 years.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dogma wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaiah_Bradley

Bradley's mind was damaged because he was a victim of a test for recreating the super-soldier serum, an arc which ends with Steve Rogers being the hero.

Its also an arc that ends with bradley being an inspiration for several generations of black americans who go on to become heroes intheir own right including his great nephew who lead the young avengers as patriot.

 Lance845 wrote:
The issue isn't the racebending, it's the racism behind it that boils my noodles.

And people got all bend out of shape with that.

 Lance845 wrote:

Its also an arc that ends with bradley being an inspiration for several generations of black americans who go on to become heroes intheir own right including his great nephew who lead the young avengers as patriot.

No, three generations; Eli Bradley is his great-grandson. And his arc requires MGH; an analog for HGH.

And the 'will swing left or right for attention and clicks' brigade have jumped on this so being the ambivalent contrarian I am I've decided its the best and worst thing ever, plus it could just be visual shorthand for her midiclo...errm Elf Blood

 dogma wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Agreed. Ciri is a Slav/Nordic analog. It's going to be a real hard sale for me to believe this casting call is anything but a "we can't have an all white cast" decision.

All the significant characters in the story are Slavic, it was written by a Slav for Slavs; but Netflix is a much larger audience.

That's largely why people are concerned. It may come as a surprise, but when people say they want character's features to remain intact it's largely because they want minimal reinterpretation of the source material.

To people who actually like The Witcher there's more concern about them butchering because they are trying to fit in to something more palatable for a dumb audience that supposedly can't see beyond their own culture.

Granted Polish culture isn't a hell of a lot different to the rest of the west, but I think it's different enough that it gives The Witcher its own flavour, I think it adds to the somewhat unique grittiness of the world and of Geralt himself.

I don't think keeping the race of characters is *the* most important thing, but it's worrying when as part of reimagining a story they're eager to throw stuff like that away, especially if it's not done well. It'd be just as weird to have asian characters recast as white folk in an asian fantasy film. People were unhappy that Matt Damon was injected in to The Great Wall, but at least there it served the purpose of providing western eyes to an eastern culture, similar to The Last Samurai. But it would be mighty odd if Katsumoto's neighbours happened to be the Jones family.

I'd also love it if they could recreate the scenery of The Witcher games, which is inspired by the more rural areas of Poland.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Granted Polish culture isn't a hell of a lot different to the rest of the west...

Aside from the misogyny that is a hallmark of most Slavic countries; there's a reason CDPR thought the sex cards in the first game were cool.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

...but I think it's different enough that it gives The Witcher its own flavour, I think it adds to the somewhat unique grittiness of the world and of Geralt himself.

But HBO still aged up all the creepily underage girls for Game of Thrones, and that world is plenty gritty.

So I spent an hour trying to say something snappy about the Ciri casting call and I'm finding I have some conflicting opinions on the subject:

On the one hand: I do not care about Ciri's race. Of all the characters in the Witcher they may have felt the need to change the race of she's probably the best choice.

On the other hand: they shouldn't have felt the need to make such a choice anyway. If they felt that the source material was problematic they should be putting in the work to comprehensively fix it, or adapt something else. No one's going to accept it if it turns out to be the shallow tokenism it appears to be.

On the third, mutant gripping hand: in light of the response to a certain Polygon article in 2015 it became clear that there was some element of the Witcher fanbase that saw the overwhelming whiteness of the setting as something to celebrate and rally behind and that element would poison their potential franchise like radioactive waste in baby formula. Netflix may well be intentionally trying to drive that element away. And are willing to risk the end result being a bland Falling-Skies style project that can make money for a few seasons than try to make a more faithful project that can only appeal to a hardcore fan demographic that will aggressively drive away mainstream interest.

Im not particularly bothered that they are making the character BAME, admittedly I think it would have been best to be open to all and if a BAME actress was the best choice to go with her.

Honesty I'm more concerned for the potential actress that likely will be the target of the misguided hate.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Im not particularly bothered that they are making the character BAME, admittedly I think it would have been best to be open to all and if a BAME actress was the best choice to go with her.

Honesty I'm more concerned for the potential actress that likely will be the target of the misguided hate.

Disliking racism is not misguided.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Im not particularly bothered that they are making the character BAME, admittedly I think it would have been best to be open to all and if a BAME actress was the best choice to go with her.

Honesty I'm more concerned for the potential actress that likely will be the target of the misguided hate.

Disliking racism is not misguided.

Directing hate at a person who got hired for a job to make a piece of entertainment is misguided.

Claiming racism without proof of racism is misguided.

First prove someone is being racist. Then direct your hate at the people who were actually doing it. Not the actress who went in for an audition and won.

 Lance845 wrote:
First prove someone is being racist. Then direct your hate at the people who were actually doing it. Not the actress who went in for an audition and won.

Did you not see the literally racist casting call?

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
First prove someone is being racist. Then direct your hate at the people who were actually doing it. Not the actress who went in for an audition and won.

Did you not see the literally racist casting call?

The Actress is not responsible for the casting call, so directing your hate at a teenage girl who's only fault is accepting a role after an audition is misguided and disgusting.

Direct your hate at the producers for making the call, not the teenager for taking a job.