Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Onething123456 wrote: When did I say he was tied to Drach'nyen? And you're does not say what you want it to. It says "conquering", nothing about wiping them out. Don't make a fool of yourself. Reading comprehension.
Wow, "When did I say he was tied to Drach'nyen? And you're does not say what you want it to. It says "conquering", nothing about wiping them out. Don't make a fool of yourself. Reading comprehension" and you say I have poor reading comprehension lol Ever heard of proper grammar or cogent arguments and logic?
You've been proven wrong with most of what you have said in this thread and not just by me lol
"Administrators from the Council of Terra had postulated that perhaps the Laer could be made a protectorate of the Imperium, since conquering such an advanced race could prove a long and costly
endeavour. Fulgrim had rejected such a notion out of hand, famously saying, 'Only humanity is perfect and for an alien race to hold its own ideals and technology as comparable to ours is profane. No, the Laer deserve only extinction.' And so the Cleansing of Laeran was begun." See where it says extinction and cleansing, and that's exactly what happened, and you say I have poor reading comprehension.
And the Emperor said nothing about Laer, you are trying to suggest he is not anti-xenos and the quotes show that he was and it was a directive, which is basic HH lore and instead of admmitting you are wrong you are trying to play semantics but you are incontrovertibly wrong.
As for Drach'nyn my bad wrong person.
Now you can admit that you are wrong and then you won't feel the need to be uncivil, because I'm great at being an donkey-cave, better than most.
Fulgrim said that AFTER the council of Terra thought about making them a protectorate instead of conquering them. You have poor reading comprehension. Your quote does not say what you want it to. The Council of Terra was originally going to conquer them.
"Administrators from the Council of Terra had postulated that perhaps the Laer could be made a protectorate of the Imperium, since conquering such an advanced race could prove a long and costly
endeavour.
What difference does it make that Fulgrim said that adter the council of Terra spoke, but he told the ADMINISTRATORS of terra no. The administrators of terra suggested not wiping them out, it was only a SUGGESTION, one that Fulgrim refused. The council of terra TALKED about subjugating them, because of the TOLL it would take, not because the Imperium or the Emperor weren't anti-xenos, but they ruled against it. You have absurdly bad reading comprehension and its mind boggling that you are trying to tell anyone that they have poor reading comprehension. You have been proved without a doubt that you are wrong and you are completely oblivious to it. Yeah you can conquer and still wipe an enemy out. Hitler conquered Poland and then see'd to wiping the Jews out. Jesus... You have been proven wrong and now you are trying to argue about definitions of words. I already posted where it was ordered to wipe them out and THEY DID JUST THAT, THEY WIPED THEM OUT.
So? The point is the Council of Terra NEVER contemplated wiping them out, but originally wanted to conquer them. It was Fulgrim who wanted to wipe them NOT because they were aliens but because they held their beliefs adnd technology to be comparable to that of humanity.
Now you are making balls-out assumptions about the Council of Terra wanting to them out. Prove I am wrong. You are assuming they wanted to wipe them out with no proof.
I have not been proven wrong. The burden is on you to prove they were ORIGINALLY going to wipe them out. I am right. You are wrong. Absolutely nowhere does it even hint they were going to wipe them out at first.
He hasn't at all been arguing that they were originally going to wipe them out though has he? He was saying they wanted to subjugate them, to make them a Protectorate of sorts. This whole time he's been saying thats what they wanted and Fulgrim made the decision to wipe them out.
I must have misunderstood him.
And Fulgrim made that decision NOT because they were aliens, but because they held their beliefs an technology to be comparable to that of humanity.
Well to a degree it was both because they were Aliens and they had technology and beliefs superior to humanity.
Fulgrim said he was going to wipe them because they held their beliefs to be comparable to humanity. Nowhere does it say because they were aliens.
Onething123456 wrote: When did I say he was tied to Drach'nyen? And you're does not say what you want it to. It says "conquering", nothing about wiping them out. Don't make a fool of yourself. Reading comprehension.
Wow, "When did I say he was tied to Drach'nyen? And you're does not say what you want it to. It says "conquering", nothing about wiping them out. Don't make a fool of yourself. Reading comprehension" and you say I have poor reading comprehension lol Ever heard of proper grammar or cogent arguments and logic?
You've been proven wrong with most of what you have said in this thread and not just by me lol
"Administrators from the Council of Terra had postulated that perhaps the Laer could be made a protectorate of the Imperium, since conquering such an advanced race could prove a long and costly endeavour. Fulgrim had rejected such a notion out of hand, famously saying, 'Only humanity is perfect and for an alien race to hold its own ideals and technology as comparable to ours is profane. No, the Laer deserve only extinction.' And so the Cleansing of Laeran was begun." See where it says extinction and cleansing, and that's exactly what happened, and you say I have poor reading comprehension.
And the Emperor said nothing about Laer, you are trying to suggest he is not anti-xenos and the quotes show that he was and it was a directive, which is basic HH lore and instead of admmitting you are wrong you are trying to play semantics but you are incontrovertibly wrong.
As for Drach'nyn my bad wrong person.
Now you can admit that you are wrong and then you won't feel the need to be uncivil, because I'm great at being an donkey-cave, better than most.
Fulgrim said that AFTER the council of Terra thought about making them a protectorate instead of conquering them. You have poor reading comprehension. Your quote does not say what you want it to. The Council of Terra was originally going to conquer them.
"Administrators from the Council of Terra had postulated that perhaps the Laer could be made a protectorate of the Imperium, since conquering such an advanced race could prove a long and costly endeavour.
What difference does it make that Fulgrim said that adter the council of Terra spoke, but he told the ADMINISTRATORS of terra no. The administrators of terra suggested not wiping them out, it was only a SUGGESTION, one that Fulgrim refused. The council of terra TALKED about subjugating them, because of the TOLL it would take, not because the Imperium or the Emperor weren't anti-xenos, but they ruled against it. You have absurdly bad reading comprehension and its mind boggling that you are trying to tell anyone that they have poor reading comprehension. You have been proved without a doubt that you are wrong and you are completely oblivious to it. Yeah you can conquer and still wipe an enemy out. Hitler conquered Poland and then see'd to wiping the Jews out. Jesus... You have been proven wrong and now you are trying to argue about definitions of words. I already posted where it was ordered to wipe them out and THEY DID JUST THAT, THEY WIPED THEM OUT.
So? The point is the Council of Terra NEVER contemplated wiping them out, but originally wanted to conquer them. It was Fulgrim who wanted to wipe them NOT because they were aliens but because they held their beliefs adnd technology to be comparable to that of humanity.
Now you are making balls-out assumptions about the Council of Terra wanting to them out. Prove I am wrong. You are assuming they wanted to wipe them out with no proof.
I have not been proven wrong. The burden is on you to prove they were ORIGINALLY going to wipe them out. I am right. You are wrong. Absolutely nowhere does it even hint they were going to wipe them out at first.
He hasn't at all been arguing that they were originally going to wipe them out though has he? He was saying they wanted to subjugate them, to make them a Protectorate of sorts. This whole time he's been saying thats what they wanted and Fulgrim made the decision to wipe them out.
I must have misunderstood him.
And Fulgrim made that decision NOT because they were aliens, but because they held their beliefs an technology to be comparable to that of humanity.
Well to a degree it was both because they were Aliens and they had technology and beliefs superior to humanity.
Fulgrim said he was going to wipe them because they held their beliefs to be comparable to humanity. Nowhere does it say because they were aliens.
But the implication there is; that he would have let aliens live, if they didn't have beliefs comparable to Humanity. Though, because they were Xenos and they did have beliefs comparable to humanity they had to die. So they were killed as a result of them being Xenos, it was just part of the whole equation.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/13 04:21:09
A Town Called Malus wrote: Also, it could be possible that the emperor is both a product of the DAoT and a creation of ancient shamans.
Ancient shamans create emperor, but he is later killed or dies. Then he is resurrected/recreated in the DAoT through a combination of technology and sorcery, intended to be used as a weapon and imprinted with the goal of humanities supremacy and survival.
This way you could have the Emperor of old be more human and have his humanity be stripped away by his resurrection through technology and his drive and vision for humanity is as a result of incredibly powerful technological conditioning of his mind during that process..
I am not going to believe Zo. She was clearly motivated by hatred. And she was an enemy of the Emperor.
A Town Called Malus wrote: Also, it could be possible that the emperor is both a product of the DAoT and a creation of ancient shamans.
Ancient shamans create emperor, but he is later killed or dies. Then he is resurrected/recreated in the DAoT through a combination of technology and sorcery, intended to be used as a weapon and imprinted with the goal of humanities supremacy and survival.
This way you could have the Emperor of old be more human and have his humanity be stripped away by his resurrection through technology and his drive and vision for humanity is as a result of incredibly powerful technological conditioning of his mind during that process..
I am not going to believe Zo. She was clearly motivated by hatred. And she was an enemy of the Emperor.
Okay but you can't just discount everything based on that. Besides who else would you listen to?
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
Okay but you can't just discount everything based on that. Besides who else would you listen to?
Yeah. I think Emperor's enemies are actually more likely to tell the truth than his lackeys, who are completely brainwashed by him.
They are just as likely to lie. And not only is there no reason to believe she has special insight into the Emperor's past, she is biased and unreliable source.
A Town Called Malus wrote: Also, it could be possible that the emperor is both a product of the DAoT and a creation of ancient shamans.
Ancient shamans create emperor, but he is later killed or dies. Then he is resurrected/recreated in the DAoT through a combination of technology and sorcery, intended to be used as a weapon and imprinted with the goal of humanities supremacy and survival.
This way you could have the Emperor of old be more human and have his humanity be stripped away by his resurrection through technology and his drive and vision for humanity is as a result of incredibly powerful technological conditioning of his mind during that process..
I am not going to believe Zo. She was clearly motivated by hatred. And she was an enemy of the Emperor.
Okay but you can't just discount everything based on that. Besides who else would you listen to?
Who else would I listen to? The Perpetuals. The Emperor talked with Perpetual Oll Persson outside of Nineveh. And don't discount Perpetual Oll Persson just because you have a hate boner for him. You would basically be saying "I hate it, so it doesn't count.", which is ridiculous. The Perpetuals are part of the lore whether you like it or not.
And the Perpetuals are well-written. That quote below is from Voltstagge on Reddit. Perpetual Oll Persson as a normal guardsman never made sense in the first place.
Yeah, he's been all around. In every war, there is Ollanius, squatting in the trenches, crawling through the dirt with every other soldier. Occasionally he is in a famous location, but never the star of the show, just a background character. Someone in his position could easily play their cards right and end up being a general, a billionaire, or avoid the war altogether. But not Oll. He is the common soldier, one of countless millions. It's in his name after all: Oll Perrson >> All Persons.
That is part of the reasons I am in favour of him being changed to a perpetual rather being than an ordinary soldier: because he is still the ordinary man, just an old one. He knows that when Horus kills him he won't come back, but he throws himself in the line of fire anyway. Just like he did at Calth. Just like he did in the Great Crusade. Just like he did at Verdun. Just like he did with Jason and the Argonauts.
When Horus kills Oll, he is not just killing a man: he is killing Humanity's history. Even if the Emperor was stuck on the Throne, Ollanius would still be there. Someone would be left to remember when humanity was better, before they succumbed to the grim darkness of the far future. He could have given up his dream of an ordinary life and finally take charge: he wouldn't be the Emperor, but he understood the Emperor's dream. But Ollanius died, and now there is no one left to remember what humanity once was and could be again. The Emperor's promise of a Golden Age died with him.
Even Guilliman can't fix it; he wasn't there for the Age of Technology, or the moon landing, or the years of peace when humanity spread across the stars. Oll Perrson was there, but he is dead. With his death humanity can't go back to before they were trapped by suspicion, hatred, and zealotry. So much was lost with him, never to be recovered. When Horus kills Ollanius, he kills humanity. That is why the Emperor finally kills Horus: because he knows at that moment the dream is dead. Chaos won.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/14 17:33:39
Damn chill out man. I don't have a hate boner for Oll. I dislike the Perpetuals in general because I find them boring and a downgrade from their prior lore that's all.
Oll isn't reliable either. He's thousands of years old. Peoples memories start to go far before that point.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
pm713 wrote: Damn chill out man. I don't have a hate boner for Oll. I dislike the Perpetuals in general because I find them boring and a downgrade from their prior lore that's all.
Oll isn't reliable either. He's thousands of years old. Peoples memories start to go far before that point.
A lot of people hate the Perpetuals. Many others don't, but yeah.
He is completely reliable. He sailed with Jason and the Argonauts, fought at Verdun, 73 Easting, and so on. He vividly remembers fighting at 73 Easting, and even remembers the name of the Iraqi soldier he fought against.
His talk with the Emperor outside of Nineveh is proof. No two ways about it.
And I have also read a lot of HH books. The vast majority of aliens found enslaved humanity. Almost all were hostile.
Plus, the Council of Terra thought about making the Laer a protectorate on pg. 28 in Fulgrim instead of conquering them (conquering them, not wiping them out). And Fulgrim rejected because they held their beliefs to be comparable to humanity's, not because they were aliens.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/14 19:28:28
pm713 wrote: Damn chill out man. I don't have a hate boner for Oll. I dislike the Perpetuals in general because I find them boring and a downgrade from their prior lore that's all.
Oll isn't reliable either. He's thousands of years old. Peoples memories start to go far before that point.
A lot of people hate the Perpetuals. Many others don't, but yeah.
He is completely reliable. He sailed with Jason and the Argonauts, fought at Verdun, 73 Easting, and so on. He vividly remembers fighting at 73 Easting, and even remembers the name of the Iraqi soldier he fought against.
His talk with the Emperor outside of Nineveh is absolute proof. No two ways about it.
Is he? For all we know every single one of those is wrong. There's nothing proving he remembers all that accurately or that he was even there and he could just be a nutter who thinks he did all that.
He's as reliable as the woman is.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
pm713 wrote: Damn chill out man. I don't have a hate boner for Oll. I dislike the Perpetuals in general because I find them boring and a downgrade from their prior lore that's all.
Oll isn't reliable either. He's thousands of years old. Peoples memories start to go far before that point.
A lot of people hate the Perpetuals. Many others don't, but yeah.
He is completely reliable. He sailed with Jason and the Argonauts, fought at Verdun, 73 Easting, and so on. He vividly remembers fighting at 73 Easting, and even remembers the name of the Iraqi soldier he fought against.
His talk with the Emperor outside of Nineveh is absolute proof. No two ways about it.
Is he? For all we know every single one of those is wrong. There's nothing proving he remembers all that accurately or that he was even there and he could just be a nutter who thinks he did all that.
He's as reliable as the woman is.
What a bunch of bs. Now you are just looking for idiotic excuses. How about this? In Mark of Calth, when Perpetual Oll Persson goes back in time to Verdun using the Daemon blade, he finds a journal he made while fighting in the war 30,000 years earlier. Satisfied? Case closed.
Perpetual Oll Persson is older than recorded human history.
ALL of his memories are real.
If that's not enough then how about Damon Prytanis being recruited after WW2?
pm713 wrote: Damn chill out man. I don't have a hate boner for Oll. I dislike the Perpetuals in general because I find them boring and a downgrade from their prior lore that's all.
Oll isn't reliable either. He's thousands of years old. Peoples memories start to go far before that point.
A lot of people hate the Perpetuals. Many others don't, but yeah.
He is completely reliable. He sailed with Jason and the Argonauts, fought at Verdun, 73 Easting, and so on. He vividly remembers fighting at 73 Easting, and even remembers the name of the Iraqi soldier he fought against.
His talk with the Emperor outside of Nineveh is absolute proof. No two ways about it.
Is he? For all we know every single one of those is wrong. There's nothing proving he remembers all that accurately or that he was even there and he could just be a nutter who thinks he did all that.
He's as reliable as the woman is.
Oh my fething god.
Actually, smartass, there IS.
Voices chirp and snigger. Oll hears the voices of people he knows on the wind, and realises they are lies. He hears the voices of people he has not seen alive in thirty thousand years. Lies. Lies. He hears John’s laugh. He hears Pascal at Verdun, asking for a light. He hears Gaius on the Wall, cursing the rain and praising the virtues of Galician girls. He hears Commander Valis whisper the name of a forgotten god as they both flinch from the nuclear light blooming across the Panpacific horizon. He hears a man question the quality of bronze stirrups in strongly accented Scythian. He hears Zaid Raheem, pinned in his burning T-62, begging to die. He hears the shocktroopers around him moan as the officer tells them that their objective will be the Brumman Hives. He hears Iason and Orfeus, singing together. He hears Lieutenant Winslow dictating his will the night before Copenhagen. He hears Private Labella whistling as she fries beans and eggs the morning after the Socal Basin fell. He hears his son, five days old, crying lustily in his crib, the day that the Norsemen landed. As if he knew, five days old and knew what was coming.
As you can see, He vividly remembers the names of every one of the people he fricking met throughout history in the quote above.
Next you are going to say Damon Prytanis never fought at Iwo Jima, never assassinated MLK, RFK or anything of the sort. Are you in denial? Just because you don't fancy the Perpetuals doesn't mean you can just disregard everything they do.
You know what? There is jackcrap proving any of what you say is true. Now you are just looking for idiotic excuses to deny it.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2018/09/14 19:41:54
The line represents my point and the 0 represents you.
---------------------------
0
You're really confused about what I'm saying and why. My point is that you can't just ignore what Zo says because she hates the Emperor while also holding up Perpetuals as paragons of fact and truth.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
pm713 wrote: The line represents my point and the 0 represents you.
---------------------------
0
You're really confused about what I'm saying and why. My point is that you can't just ignore what Zo says because she hates the Emperor while also holding up Perpetuals as paragons of fact and truth.
I know for a fact that Perpetual Oll Persson in Mark of Calth going back in time to Verdun using the Daemon blade and finding a journal he made during the war is proof.
And the Perpetuals are a hell of a fething lot more reliable than Zo. Wanna know why? Because they have no reason to lie. (even ignoring the fact they could not possibly be lying as it is fact for everything they did.) And Perpetual Oll Persson doesn't even care for the Emperor and actually does not like him.
Either way, I am fething tired of your nonsense. I'm right. You are wrong.
And when could a Perpetual's memories get distorted so much that everything they did never happened? As far as I know, its not as simple as that with memory.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/09/14 19:54:28
It's not. He's thousands of years old and could very much be as mad as a hatter not to mention the general mind messing of time travel. He found a journal and recognises it. Without a neutral 3rd party verifying that it's as suspect as Zo.
Zo had no reason to lie in her statement whatsoever so lying because she hates big E is soooooo dumb.
Welcome to the club.
It's a good look when you end things saying "I'm right. You're wrong."
What you know doesn't matter. There's nothing irl remotely like Perpetuals to compare to, they're in a universe where people rewrite memories and everything is from a flawed perspective.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/09/14 19:55:55
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
pm713 wrote: It's not. He's thousands of years old and could very much be as mad as a hatter not to mention the general mind messing of time travel. He found a journal and recognises it. Without a neutral 3rd party verifying that it's as suspect as Zo.
Zo had no reason to lie in her statement whatsoever so lying because she hates big E is soooooo dumb.
Welcome to the club.
It's a good look when you end things saying "I'm right. You're wrong."
fething prove it. He wrote that journal. feth me side ways. I am fething tired of you denying it.
Actually, Zo DOES have reason to lie. She is an enemy of the Emperor. And people will say all sorts of things even when they know for a fact they are going to die.
And when does a Perpetual's memory get so distorted they did nothing of what they thought they did? Its not that simple with human memory. At worst they would forget what they did, as far as I know.
Perpetual Oll Persson conveniently remembers doing stuff that happened in real life history and mythology.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/14 19:59:36
pm713 wrote: It's not. He's thousands of years old and could very much be as mad as a hatter not to mention the general mind messing of time travel. He found a journal and recognises it. Without a neutral 3rd party verifying that it's as suspect as Zo.
Zo had no reason to lie in her statement whatsoever so lying because she hates big E is soooooo dumb.
Welcome to the club.
It's a good look when you end things saying "I'm right. You're wrong."
fething prove it. He wrote that journal. feth me side ways. I am fething tired of you denying it.
Actually, Zo DOES have reason to lie. She is an enemy of the Emperor. And people will say all sorts of things even when they know for a fact they are going to die.
And when does a Perpetual's memory get so distorted they did nothing of what they thought they did? Its not that simple with human memory. At worst they would forget what they did, as far as I know.
Perpetual Oll Persson conveniently remembers doing stuff that happened in real life history and mythology.
Prove he did. Prove it's not just coincidence or Oll being insane. See how annoying that is?
But WHY!? She hates him but there's no gain at all in lying there. There's no motive or reason or evidence for it.
Well the bit when they're 2504 years old and suddenly go senile of course. I'm really just throwing a random reason around which is exactly what you're doing with Zo.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
pm713 wrote: It's not. He's thousands of years old and could very much be as mad as a hatter not to mention the general mind messing of time travel. He found a journal and recognises it. Without a neutral 3rd party verifying that it's as suspect as Zo.
Zo had no reason to lie in her statement whatsoever so lying because she hates big E is soooooo dumb.
Welcome to the club.
It's a good look when you end things saying "I'm right. You're wrong."
fething prove it. He wrote that journal. feth me side ways. I am fething tired of you denying it.
Actually, Zo DOES have reason to lie. She is an enemy of the Emperor. And people will say all sorts of things even when they know for a fact they are going to die.
And when does a Perpetual's memory get so distorted they did nothing of what they thought they did? Its not that simple with human memory. At worst they would forget what they did, as far as I know.
Perpetual Oll Persson conveniently remembers doing stuff that happened in real life history and mythology.
Prove he did. Prove it's not just coincidence or Oll being insane. See how annoying that is?
But WHY!? She hates him but there's no gain at all in lying there. There's no motive or reason or evidence for it.
Well the bit when they're 2504 years old and suddenly go senile of course. I'm really just throwing a random reason around which is exactly what you're doing with Zo.
I just did prove it. He went back in time in Mark of Calth and saw a journal at Verdun he wrote.
None of them are senile in anyway, shape, or form. They don't age. Human memory does not work like someone having distorted memory about fake tings.
I hope you are trolling me.
Why would Zo have o reason to lie? She is an enemy of the Emperor clearly motivated by hatred (hatred between rulers on Terra during the unification wars). And people will say all sorts of things even when they know for a fact they are doing to die.
You didn't prove anything because there's no proof that really is his journal.
They clearly do age otherwise they'd be babies all the time. For example Vulkan is a perpetual but has clearly grown beyond his original size. Prove it. Perpetuals aren't real and aren't comparable to real humans either plus 40k includes the ability to alter memories.
Why WOULD she? She hates the Emperor but that doesn't mean she's going to lie. You keep parroting the same thing again and again and again but it means so little and you can't actually explain it.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
pm713 wrote: You didn't prove anything because there's no proof that really is his journal.
They clearly do age otherwise they'd be babies all the time. For example Vulkan is a perpetual but has clearly grown beyond his original size. Prove it. Perpetuals aren't real and aren't comparable to real humans either plus 40k includes the ability to alter memories.
Why WOULD she? She hates the Emperor but that doesn't mean she's going to lie. You keep parroting the same thing again and again and again but it means so little and you can't actually explain it.
I mean they don't age past their prime.
She MIGHT have been lying. Its not certain, but she could have been.
Perpetual brains work almost the same way as humans. And as if their memories would have been altered.
pm713 wrote: She might have been lying but almost certainly wasn't.
Perpetuals might have altered memories but probably don't.
See the similarity?
And why would their memories be altered? As if.
She could very well have been lying. Even if she wasn't, do you really think she would be the only one to speculate what about the Emperor is? Many characters In-universe have wondered about what he is.
pm713 wrote: You didn't prove anything because there's no proof that really is his journal.
They clearly do age otherwise they'd be babies all the time. For example Vulkan is a perpetual but has clearly grown beyond his original size. Prove it. Perpetuals aren't real and aren't comparable to real humans either plus 40k includes the ability to alter memories.
Why WOULD she? She hates the Emperor but that doesn't mean she's going to lie. You keep parroting the same thing again and again and again but it means so little and you can't actually explain it.
Vulkan is also proof that peprpetuals are not immune to mental trauma
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
pm713 wrote: You didn't prove anything because there's no proof that really is his journal.
They clearly do age otherwise they'd be babies all the time. For example Vulkan is a perpetual but has clearly grown beyond his original size. Prove it. Perpetuals aren't real and aren't comparable to real humans either plus 40k includes the ability to alter memories.
Why WOULD she? She hates the Emperor but that doesn't mean she's going to lie. You keep parroting the same thing again and again and again but it means so little and you can't actually explain it.
Vulkan is also proof that peprpetuals are not immune to mental trauma
I did not say they were immune to it. I'm saying that human memory does not work that way.
Onething, you have a pattern of being rude, and it persists in this thread. If you continue, you will be temporarily suspended.
Please remember that:
1. You can be correct and still be rude. The two are not mutually exclusive.
2. You're NOT going to convince people to see things your way by being abrasive.
pm713 wrote: She might have been lying but almost certainly wasn't.
Perpetuals might have altered memories but probably don't.
See the similarity?
And why would their memories be altered? As if.
She could very well have been lying. Even if she wasn't, do you really think she would be the only one to speculate what about the Emperor is? Many characters In-universe have wondered about what he is.
Why would she lie? As if.
The memories could very well have been altered.
I've never said she was the only one to wonder about what the Emperor is...
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
The Perpetuals definitely lived through what they have seen/remembered.
I still would not take her seriously (I have not seen anyone answer why she has no reason to lie.). But everything in 40k is told from unreliable narrators.
As much as I hate the idea of Perpetuals I think it's a stretch to just discount Oli's memories based on nothing but conjecture. He could be misremembering things but I don't think there's any evidence for that, nor is there any good reason why it should be the case. Yes, Vulkan endured mental trauma but he was tortured by a fellow Primarch for a significant length of time.
As for Zo and lying, I think it's much more likely her hatred of the Emperor has driven her to concoct theories about him or made her much more likely to believe alternate theories developed by others. Nobody is the villain in their own mind, so she's likely trying to justify her stance against the Emperor through any excuse she can come up with. Or perhaps she is just flat-out lying. The reason would be pretty straight forward: one last contemptuous attempt to sow discord in the ranks of his followers.
Slipspace wrote: As for Zo and lying, I think it's much more likely her hatred of the Emperor has driven her to concoct theories about him or made her much more likely to believe alternate theories developed by others. Nobody is the villain in their own mind, so she's likely trying to justify her stance against the Emperor through any excuse she can come up with. Or perhaps she is just flat-out lying. The reason would be pretty straight forward: one last contemptuous attempt to sow discord in the ranks of his followers.
Or it could be something the author put in to wind-up fans - like the Word Bearers talking about the Ultramarines absorbing the lost Legions.
Onething123456 wrote: The Perpetuals definitely lived through what they have seen/remembered.
I still would not take her seriously (I have not seen anyone answer why she has no reason to lie.). But everything in 40k is told from unreliable narrators.
Which you base on nothing reliable.
It's a bit hard to list reasons when it's incredibly obvious and you're obstinate. There's no possible gain in lying, no motive to do so and the conversation topic is not something she has enough knowledge on to lie well.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
