Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 JNAProductions wrote:
So the whole "Removed from the battlefield" is... Fluff text?

No, you physically remove them from the table and place them somewhere new. Its instructive if anything. Irrelevant given the context of this discussion and particular beta rule though, as you can see above and on the previous page.

A unit that had already arrived is unaffected. A unit that starts on the table and is moved via stratagem or psychic power etc by definition has already arrived.

There is no more to say on this. I don't understand the confusion unless it's feigned ignorance because some people are unhappy these abilities are able to bypass the ruling.

Again, I said I listen to Facebook. I just also acknowledge that the rule, as written, does not function that way.

Where in the Beta Rule itself does it have an exception for units that were on the table and subsequently removed?

 JNAProductions wrote:
Again, I said I listen to Facebook. I just also acknowledge that the rule, as written, does not function that way.

Where in the Beta Rule itself does it have an exception for units that were on the table and subsequently removed?

Read the beta rule and read.my previous responses in this topic. See my highlighted words in CAPS.

I have answered this question repeatedly for you.

RAW the rule functions exactly as I have said, it doesn't affect Da Jump etc.

If a unit is removed from the battlefield, it stands to reason it cannot do anything unless it arrives back onto the battlefield.

We know the Designers’ intention (unless we’re playing ostrich head-in-the-sand). Ignoring the presence of this guidance, decrying it in multiple threads and continuously insisting direct information from the writers doesn’t apply, and is somehow the scribblings of an intern (when GW don’t use interns for their social media) is just a hiding to nothing.

You can literally type LITERALLY in caps as many times as you like and it won’t change the fact we have been told by GW that Da Jump works on turn one on units on the board. That’s just undeniable fact that we’ve got that information and know its source. You may not like the chosen communication vector, but we’ve been over this in at least two other threads. This is all pure repetition and serving no purpose.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Again, I said I listen to Facebook. I just also acknowledge that the rule, as written, does not function that way.

Where in the Beta Rule itself does it have an exception for units that were on the table and subsequently removed?

How does that even matter? RAW commisars kill 1 and unit passes moraletest. That's been overwritten. So whether beta rule RAW says one way or another is actually irrelevant. If RAW didn't say so then official facebook post rewrote it and now RAW says da jump etc are not affected. If RAW did not say then official facebook post clarified it. Either way current RAW is da jump etc aren't affected. What it was before official facebook post is now irrelevant so why arque about that? What matters is NOW.

Now another thing altogether is is it good idea that GW has official sources in multiple places including FB posts that are now hard to find? No. That leads to situations like I ran where tournament opponent and judges weren't aware and led to argument. Any professional game developer would put all official rule changes and clarifications on one place(let's call it FAQ&Errata section in web site for example!). But GW isn't professional game design company and everybody knows it so it's hardly surprise they do it like(worse than average) amateurs. No surprise there. Players just have suffer GW's incompetence.

We pay for the rules. Should they not be competently done?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The rule has always been clear things like Da Jump, GoI etc

As stated in the info graphic the tactical reserves beta rule effects units that have not yet deployed. Units that have already started on the table (ie - arrived) are not affected by the rule.

To answer Raven's question RAW yes you can place units elsewhere on the board as long as they have already arrived on the table.

Actually, not quite true. If you read the graphic, they emphasize that the rule doesn't apply to units that were set up on the board during deployment. They did not say that you could use them on a unit that sets up in its own deployment zone during turn 1 to be moved outside the deplyment zone. So, you wouldn't get to use Dark Matter Crystal on reinforcements initially arriving during Turn 1.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 doctortom wrote:
Yes, we disagree. The people running the GW Facebook page aren't just "some random social media intern", they are representing the company when they post on Facebook. It's not just some yobbo at Billy Bob's 40K Emporium And Bait Shop putting up a post on their own website and trying to claim it's an official GW post.

Why bother playing by ANY of the rules if you're going to just ignore the ones you don't like? If you want free-form nonsense you have D&D for that. This is a board game with a set of rules to follow.

You lost me on this one. What rule is Dr bTom ignoring? If anything you're ignoring the legitimate GW FB post that cites examples of how the new beta rules work.

Again, Facebook is NOT RULES. I don't know how much clearer I can get on that. The Facebook page LITERALLY says it's not rules.

Neither are FAQs if you really want to get pedantic. Errata are rules.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

blaktoof wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

blaktoof wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
The issue with the Facebook post is some people think that the post is an additional errata, or clarification. It is just giving examples of results of the rules as written for the errata

Which is funny because RaW Da Jump is affected, so the Facebook page is actually wrong. GW getting their own rules wrong when asked? Did I time travel to 1993 and asked the Roolz Boyz again?

Everything you said is simply untrue unless you try to apply the tactical reserves rules to units that are not using tactical reserves.

Everything I said is true because the beta Tactical Reserves rule applies to ANY unit that arrives onto the battlefield, not just those that were deployed elsewhere.

Not according to the actual rules as written, or the comments about the rules by the people who write the rules preceeding it in the big faq, or the marketing piece on Facebook listing some types of units unaffected and affected by said rules.

Do you actually know what Rules as Written means? Because it's clear from your posting that you do not.

I do.

The issue is you are take a faq answer for "do units that use gate da jump etc count as moving for the purpose of shooting- yes for the purpose of shooting they count as if arriving on the table."

You are then taking the for the purpose of shooting statement and saying they count as arriving for all purposes beyond shooting, despite it not actually saying that.

Then you are taking the second part of a rule for tactical reserves and apying it to all arriving units not just units that tactical reserves applies to, despite it not saying it applies to all units, and despite the commentary from the people who wrote the ruled actually stating it applies to only the units in tactical reserves from the text preceeding the tactical reserves errata.

Then you combine those two and come with your cherry picked outcome of units using gate are arriving to the table and cannot be placed beyond their own deployment zone turn 1.

I completely understand the rules as written as well how you are cherry picking to come up with an interaction that does not exist, even from the writers of the rules who state the Tactical reserves rule applies just to units set up mid game that were in some form of tactical reserves during deployment.(being deployed to some place other than the table).

With the arrival of 8th and the new more involved version of GW. They are going to put out information on facebook clarifying things and the old method of wait for an errata and only errata/faq count as official is going out the door. This is an outdated way of thinking especially if it comes from their official platform. Get used to it, this is how 8th is going to go regardless of the way you think the rules should or should not get updated.

On to the rules of the OP. I think that because they arrived from a form of reserves and then tried to redeploy they would have to redeploy into their deployment zone on turn 1. The dark matter crystal doesn't change the fact that they didnt start turn 1 on the board.

blaktoof wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

blaktoof wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

blaktoof wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
The issue with the Facebook post is some people think that the post is an additional errata, or clarification. It is just giving examples of results of the rules as written for the errata

Which is funny because RaW Da Jump is affected, so the Facebook page is actually wrong. GW getting their own rules wrong when asked? Did I time travel to 1993 and asked the Roolz Boyz again?

Everything you said is simply untrue unless you try to apply the tactical reserves rules to units that are not using tactical reserves.

Everything I said is true because the beta Tactical Reserves rule applies to ANY unit that arrives onto the battlefield, not just those that were deployed elsewhere.

Not according to the actual rules as written, or the comments about the rules by the people who write the rules preceeding it in the big faq, or the marketing piece on Facebook listing some types of units unaffected and affected by said rules.

Do you actually know what Rules as Written means? Because it's clear from your posting that you do not.

I do.

The issue is you are take a faq answer for "do units that use gate da jump etc count as moving for the purpose of shooting- yes for the purpose of shooting they count as if arriving on the table."

You are then taking the for the purpose of shooting statement and saying they count as arriving for all purposes beyond shooting, despite it not actually saying that.

Then you are taking the second part of a rule for tactical reserves and apying it to all arriving units not just units that tactical reserves applies to, despite it not saying it applies to all units, and despite the commentary from the people who wrote the ruled actually stating it applies to only the units in tactical reserves from the text preceeding the tactical reserves errata.

Then you combine those two and come with your cherry picked outcome of units using gate are arriving to the table and cannot be placed beyond their own deployment zone turn 1.

I completely understand the rules as written as well how you are cherry picking to come up with an interaction that does not exist, even from the writers of the rules who state the Tactical reserves rule applies just to units set up mid game that were in some form of tactical reserves during deployment.(being deployed to some place other than the table).

I think you missed off <mic drop>

Very well reasoned and written post.

This thread can probably be closed.

Rules are nothing if not employed in practice, and in practice the prevailing interpretation is that this kind of deep strike is allowed.

 Marmatag wrote:
This thread can probably be closed.

Rules are nothing if not employed in practice, and in practice the prevailing interpretation is that this kind of deep strike is allowed.

I don't see that it's a consensus. As I pointed out earlier:

"What's interesting is that even if you use this FAQ, technically you couldn't use Webway Infiltration and then the Dark Matter Crystal. What was posted on Facebook says "but this rule doesn't apply to any units that are set up during deployment". It does NOT say "this rule doesn't apply to any units that have been set up". They did not give any examples of a unit that arrived from reinforcements during the first turn and then used an ability, psychic power, stratagem or whatever to be moved out of the deployment zone. According to what this says, you can only apply those to units that were set up during deployment. So, examples like da Jump are fine if the units involved started the game on the board, but it would not apply to units not set up during deployment but are having their (initial) set up during turn 1. "

An Actual Englishman, who said you could use Dark matter Crystal on units already deployed, hasn't responded to this when I pointed it out - the Facebook rule draws a distinction between units that are set up during deployment and units that are set up during turn one, with you not being able to do something during turn one to redeploy the latter (though the Facebook post lets you relocate units that are set up in your deployement zone during deployment). mhalko1 also made this point on it's own. Nobody else has specifically addressed or debated this part of the issue, because they're too busy focusing on BCB sucking the oxygen out of the air with his saying they aren't rules, the other people saying they are, but ignoring that the clarification itself hasn't changed anything for units that were not set up on the board during deployement. As the OP asked about deploying a unit in the deployment zone during turn one then using something the same turn to get them across the board, this is a very important point.

If people want to take the debate from this point, that's fine, but the "prevailing opinion" that you're mentioning isn't taking that into account and hasn't put forward anything to refute what I said. That doesn't make the prevailing opinion worth much unless the people espousing that opinion can come out and refute that (which is an entirely different argument from the BCB sideshow).

I believe I did comment on the op question.

Because the unit was deployed to a place other than the table(tactical reserves) if they are deployed turn 1 to your deployment(mid game) they cannot use dark matter crystal to be setup outside of their deployment zone as the unit is still under the restriction of the errattad tactial reserves as it was deployed somewhere other than the table.

It likely got lost In the aide arguement which rapidly became the focus of the thread. Sorry.

blaktoof wrote:
I believe I did comment on the op question.

Because the unit was deployed to a place other than the table(tactical reserves) if they are deployed turn 1 to your deployment(mid game) they cannot use dark matter crystal to be setup outside of their deployment zone as the unit is still under the restriction of the errattad tactial reserves as it was deployed somewhere other than the table.

It likely got lost In the aide arguement which rapidly became the focus of the thread. Sorry.

And again, you're making up rules. There is no such thing as being in "tactical reserves", nor does the rule require the unit to have been deployed somewhere other than the battlefield.

 doctortom wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The rule has always been clear things like Da Jump, GoI etc

As stated in the info graphic the tactical reserves beta rule effects units that have not yet deployed. Units that have already started on the table (ie - arrived) are not affected by the rule.

To answer Raven's question RAW yes you can place units elsewhere on the board as long as they have already arrived on the table.

Actually, not quite true. If you read the graphic, they emphasize that the rule doesn't apply to units that were set up on the board during deployment. They did not say that you could use them on a unit that sets up in its own deployment zone during turn 1 to be moved outside the deplyment zone. So, you wouldn't get to use Dark Matter Crystal on reinforcements initially arriving during Turn 1.

The rule states that units that arrive on turn one must be placed within their deployment zone.

So you if you place them in your deployment zone they have arrived. If you now move the units with dark matter crystal etc it is a legal move to put them elsewhere on the board because they have already arrived.

Again, I don't think it's particularly complex.

Can't respond too often, on holiday

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The rule has always been clear things like Da Jump, GoI etc

As stated in the info graphic the tactical reserves beta rule effects units that have not yet deployed. Units that have already started on the table (ie - arrived) are not affected by the rule.

To answer Raven's question RAW yes you can place units elsewhere on the board as long as they have already arrived on the table.

Actually, not quite true. If you read the graphic, they emphasize that the rule doesn't apply to units that were set up on the board during deployment. They did not say that you could use them on a unit that sets up in its own deployment zone during turn 1 to be moved outside the deplyment zone. So, you wouldn't get to use Dark Matter Crystal on reinforcements initially arriving during Turn 1.

The rule states that units that arrive on turn one must be placed within their deployment zone.

So you if you place them in your deployment zone they have arrived. If you now move the units with dark matter crystal etc it is a legal move to put them elsewhere on the board because they have already arrived.

Again, I don't think it's particularly complex.

Can't respond too often, on holiday

Dark Matter Crystal and other effects "remove the unit from the battlefield". If they don't arrive on the battlefield, how can they do anything else during the game?

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The rule has always been clear things like Da Jump, GoI etc

As stated in the info graphic the tactical reserves beta rule effects units that have not yet deployed. Units that have already started on the table (ie - arrived) are not affected by the rule.

To answer Raven's question RAW yes you can place units elsewhere on the board as long as they have already arrived on the table.

Actually, not quite true. If you read the graphic, they emphasize that the rule doesn't apply to units that were set up on the board during deployment. They did not say that you could use them on a unit that sets up in its own deployment zone during turn 1 to be moved outside the deplyment zone. So, you wouldn't get to use Dark Matter Crystal on reinforcements initially arriving during Turn 1.

The rule states that units that arrive on turn one must be placed within their deployment zone.

So you if you place them in your deployment zone they have arrived. If you now move the units with dark matter crystal etc it is a legal move to put them elsewhere on the board because they have already arrived.

Again, I don't think it's particularly complex.

Can't respond too often, on holiday

Dark Matter Crystal and other effects "remove the unit from the battlefield". If they don't arrive on the battlefield, how can they do anything else during the game?

They 'return' to the battlefield.

They are 'replaced' on the battlefield.

Lots of ways.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The rule has always been clear things like Da Jump, GoI etc

As stated in the info graphic the tactical reserves beta rule effects units that have not yet deployed. Units that have already started on the table (ie - arrived) are not affected by the rule.

To answer Raven's question RAW yes you can place units elsewhere on the board as long as they have already arrived on the table.

Actually, not quite true. If you read the graphic, they emphasize that the rule doesn't apply to units that were set up on the board during deployment. They did not say that you could use them on a unit that sets up in its own deployment zone during turn 1 to be moved outside the deplyment zone. So, you wouldn't get to use Dark Matter Crystal on reinforcements initially arriving during Turn 1.

The rule states that units that arrive on turn one must be placed within their deployment zone.

So you if you place them in your deployment zone they have arrived. If you now move the units with dark matter crystal etc it is a legal move to put them elsewhere on the board because they have already arrived.

Again, I don't think it's particularly complex.

Can't respond too often, on holiday

Dark Matter Crystal and other effects "remove the unit from the battlefield". If they don't arrive on the battlefield, how can they do anything else during the game?

They 'return' to the battlefield.

They are 'replaced' on the battlefield.

Lots of ways.

Ok, so you can make the same argument for units that make a Manta Drop. They were on the battlefield, just really high up. Do you see the flaw in your reasoning now?

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The rule has always been clear things like Da Jump, GoI etc

As stated in the info graphic the tactical reserves beta rule effects units that have not yet deployed. Units that have already started on the table (ie - arrived) are not affected by the rule.

To answer Raven's question RAW yes you can place units elsewhere on the board as long as they have already arrived on the table.

Actually, not quite true. If you read the graphic, they emphasize that the rule doesn't apply to units that were set up on the board during deployment. They did not say that you could use them on a unit that sets up in its own deployment zone during turn 1 to be moved outside the deplyment zone. So, you wouldn't get to use Dark Matter Crystal on reinforcements initially arriving during Turn 1.

The rule states that units that arrive on turn one must be placed within their deployment zone.

So you if you place them in your deployment zone they have arrived. If you now move the units with dark matter crystal etc it is a legal move to put them elsewhere on the board because they have already arrived.

Again, I don't think it's particularly complex.

Can't respond too often, on holiday

Dark Matter Crystal and other effects "remove the unit from the battlefield". If they don't arrive on the battlefield, how can they do anything else during the game?

They 'return' to the battlefield.

They are 'replaced' on the battlefield.

Lots of ways.

Ok, so you can make the same argument for units that make a Manta Drop. They were on the battlefield, just really high up. Do you see the flaw in your reasoning now?

Nope because those units literally aren't on the battlefield while units that, for the millionth time, HAVE ALREADY ARRIVED on the battlefield are.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Nope because those units literally aren't on the battlefield while units that, for the millionth time, HAVE ALREADY ARRIVED on the battlefield are.

Which, for the billionth time, ARE REMOVED FROM THE BATTLEFIELD by DMC and other such effects. They are no longer on the battlefield. The only way for them to come back to the battlefield is for them to arrive on the battlefield.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Nope because those units literally aren't on the battlefield while units that, for the millionth time, HAVE ALREADY ARRIVED on the battlefield are.

Which, for the billionth time, ARE REMOVED FROM THE BATTLEFIELD by DMC and other such effects. They are no longer on the battlefield. The only way for them to come back to the battlefield is for them to arrive on the battlefield.

I've just given you (twice) what I believe to be the appropriate pronoun for the units you've described. Arrived isn't it. I have given you multiple ways a unit can be considered to return to the battlefield through these means.

I'm not sure why your definition of 'arrived' is so wrong given the context of this game, but it clearly is and I can literally prove it because GW have confirmed as much.

Furthermore, as far as I know nothing in the rules says that if a unit is removed from the battlefield and redeployed/retuned/replaced they are 'arriving'. If there is please provide a source?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Nope because those units literally aren't on the battlefield while units that, for the millionth time, HAVE ALREADY ARRIVED on the battlefield are.

Which, for the billionth time, ARE REMOVED FROM THE BATTLEFIELD by DMC and other such effects. They are no longer on the battlefield. The only way for them to come back to the battlefield is for them to arrive on the battlefield.

I've just given you (twice) what I believe to be the appropriate pronoun for the units you've described. Arrived isn't it. I have given you multiple ways a unit can be considered to return to the battlefield through these means.

I'm not sure why your definition of 'arrived' is so wrong given the context of this game, but it clearly is and I can literally prove it because GW have confirmed as much.

Furthermore, as far as I know nothing in the rules says that if a unit is removed from the battlefield and redeployed/retuned/replaced they are 'arriving'. If there is please provide a source?

The English Language. The same reason we know what a "roll" or a "dice" is.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Nope because those units literally aren't on the battlefield while units that, for the millionth time, HAVE ALREADY ARRIVED on the battlefield are.

Which, for the billionth time, ARE REMOVED FROM THE BATTLEFIELD by DMC and other such effects. They are no longer on the battlefield. The only way for them to come back to the battlefield is for them to arrive on the battlefield.

I've just given you (twice) what I believe to be the appropriate pronoun for the units you've described. Arrived isn't it. I have given you multiple ways a unit can be considered to return to the battlefield through these means.

I'm not sure why your definition of 'arrived' is so wrong given the context of this game, but it clearly is and I can literally prove it because GW have confirmed as much.

Furthermore, as far as I know nothing in the rules says that if a unit is removed from the battlefield and redeployed/retuned/replaced they are 'arriving'. If there is please provide a source?

The English Language. The same reason we know what a "roll" or a "dice" is.

Wrong again.

As I've said repeatedly there are other descriptors for a unit that is moved via a stratagem or psychic power. Arrived is not it and hey look at that, GW rules writers seem to agree.

Enough of this. You have no basis for your argument and you're only arguing for the sake of it. Well, its been fun but I'm bored now so until you have an actual argument based on the rules as written rather than your bizarre interpretation of them where you create your own, please don't bother me with this anymore.

Indeed, despite bcb claiming the "high road" they can't resist using their literally and proven wrong interpretation of the rules as if it is somehow relevant to any single person

It isn't
GW have said bcb is wrong
Bcb doesn't like being told they're wrong, so attacks the source and creates hilariously bad slippery slope fallacies to "prove" they're right.

They're not
They know they're not

End.

Indeed. Flouncing off doesn’t magically make your point right.

Reinforcement and Tactical reserve are two different rules.

Da jump deals with only Reinforcement, a rule in it's own in the BRB. While Tactical Reserves is itself another rule in the BRB

I'll even link them for you guys.

Reinforcements

Many units have the ability to be set up on the battlefield mid-turn, sometimes by using teleporters,grav chutes or other,more esoteric means. Typically, this happens at the end of the Movement phase, but it can also happen during other phases. Units that are set up in this manner cannot move or Advance further during the turn they arrive- their entire Movement phase is used in deploying to the battlefield-but they can otherwise act normally(shoot,charge,ect.) for the rest of the turn. Units that arrive as reinforcements count as having moved in their Movement phase for all rules purposes, such as shooting Heavy weapons (p180). Any units that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the battle counts as having been destroyed.

This is the BETA Tactical Reserves Rule



Notice something interesting about this?

They are two separate rules. They are not the same rule, so why are people making them out as one rule???

One is talking about deployment, while one is during a turn. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME RULE

Tactical reserves is a deployment specific rule, that is saying if you do not place this unit on the battlefield, this rule applies to it.

So then, you may ask. What rule does units use if they are actually deployed on the battlefield?

Why the Reinforcement Rule of course!

These rules are seperate. They may look the same and function the same but they are fundamentally TWO DIFFERENT RULES.

one is used in Deployment the other is used in a turn

Do not assume they are one rule.

Also P.S anyone who decides to quote this reply must use the full context otherwise you have just lost your argument. Context matters

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The rule has always been clear things like Da Jump, GoI etc

As stated in the info graphic the tactical reserves beta rule effects units that have not yet deployed. Units that have already started on the table (ie - arrived) are not affected by the rule.

To answer Raven's question RAW yes you can place units elsewhere on the board as long as they have already arrived on the table.

Actually, not quite true. If you read the graphic, they emphasize that the rule doesn't apply to units that were set up on the board during deployment. They did not say that you could use them on a unit that sets up in its own deployment zone during turn 1 to be moved outside the deplyment zone. So, you wouldn't get to use Dark Matter Crystal on reinforcements initially arriving during Turn 1.

The rule states that units that arrive on turn one must be placed within their deployment zone.

So you if you place them in your deployment zone they have arrived. If you now move the units with dark matter crystal etc it is a legal move to put them elsewhere on the board because they have already arrived.

Again, I don't think it's particularly complex.

Can't respond too often, on holiday

If you are not playing by the Facebook post, then BCB would be correct for any unit that gets removed from the battlefield and comde on again, as they are described as being removed from the battlefield, then come on again, and units coming on mid-turn are desctibed as reinforcements. But, I velieve you are probably trying to play it by the Facebook post.

Unfortunately, the Facebook post also denies what you said. (mhalko1 has helpfully posted the page that GW put out on Facebook about this; it's the last post on page 1 of the thread if you wish to look at the entire thing.)

The Facebook post with the page clarifying the Tactical Reserves rul states "But this rule doesn't apply to any units that are set up on the battlefield during deployment; these units can still use abilities, Stratagems and psychic powers to put the pressure on opponents." You are ignoring the key two words that I underlined. It doesn't excuse everyone who has been set up on the battlefield, but only those who were set up during deployment. So, while you would be correct in saying you can use things like da Jump on units that start the game on the board, this isn't true for any units that arrive during turn on. We are given the exception only for units that are set up during deployment. The OP was giving us a situation where the unit arrived on the board during turn 1, so it has no permission to ignore the restriction keeping it from using a Stratagem to move outside the deployment zone during the same turn one.

Please, provide a rules quotation that backs up your saying that a unit that arrives on turn one can subsequently use a stratagem to move outside the deployment zone the same turn. I've given you the quotations to show why it doesn't.

 doctortom wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The rule has always been clear things like Da Jump, GoI etc

As stated in the info graphic the tactical reserves beta rule effects units that have not yet deployed. Units that have already started on the table (ie - arrived) are not affected by the rule.

To answer Raven's question RAW yes you can place units elsewhere on the board as long as they have already arrived on the table.

Actually, not quite true. If you read the graphic, they emphasize that the rule doesn't apply to units that were set up on the board during deployment. They did not say that you could use them on a unit that sets up in its own deployment zone during turn 1 to be moved outside the deplyment zone. So, you wouldn't get to use Dark Matter Crystal on reinforcements initially arriving during Turn 1.

The rule states that units that arrive on turn one must be placed within their deployment zone.

So you if you place them in your deployment zone they have arrived. If you now move the units with dark matter crystal etc it is a legal move to put them elsewhere on the board because they have already arrived.

Again, I don't think it's particularly complex.

Can't respond too often, on holiday

If you are not playing by the Facebook post, then BCB would be correct for any unit that gets removed from the battlefield and comde on again, as they are described as being removed from the battlefield, then come on again, and units coming on mid-turn are desctibed as reinforcements. But, I velieve you are probably trying to play it by the Facebook post.

Unfortunately, the Facebook post also denies what you said. (mhalko1 has helpfully posted the page that GW put out on Facebook about this; it's the last post on page 1 of the thread if you wish to look at the entire thing.)

The Facebook post with the page clarifying the Tactical Reserves rul states "But this rule doesn't apply to any units that are set up on the battlefield during deployment; these units can still use abilities, Stratagems and psychic powers to put the pressure on opponents." You are ignoring the key two words that I underlined. It doesn't excuse everyone who has been set up on the battlefield, but only those who were set up during deployment. So, while you would be correct in saying you can use things like da Jump on units that start the game on the board, this isn't true for any units that arrive during turn on. We are given the exception only for units that are set up during deployment. The OP was giving us a situation where the unit arrived on the board during turn 1, so it has no permission to ignore the restriction keeping it from using a Stratagem to move outside the deployment zone during the same turn one.

Please, provide a rules quotation that backs up your saying that a unit that arrives on turn one can subsequently use a stratagem to move outside the deployment zone the same turn. I've given you the quotations to show why it doesn't.

I don't need to provide a quotation, you've already had it multiple times in this thread - its in the beta tactical reserves rule.

It states (as I have said multiple times now) units that ARRIVE. A unit that has already arrived via deployment or during set up has, incredibly, already ARRIVED so isn't bound by the rule.

I've already stated this in this very thread, you quoted it above. I've yet to see a reasonable argument against this that doesn't take a strange, new meaning for 'arrived' and replaces it with your own.

Also, as I've said multiple times - the facebook post is not a new rule post or a change of existing rules. It clarifies the same rule that has always existed since the beta tac res rules were released for those who seemingly don't understand what 'arrived' means.