Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I know that in the game Multilasers aren't very powerful but how powerful are they represented in the fluff and fiction? I know the game likes to lump weapon classes into one profile but you would think there could be varying types of Multilaser weapons, different shot power, rate of fire etc? It seems strange that a turret or platform mounted multilaser that could draw on big energy cells and cooling has far less penetrative power than the backpack powered hotshot lasguns, which are also rapid fire.

I'm working on a fan-comic and wanting to use a heavy multilaser to ambush a Marine, but he's confident enough in his armour to take a burst of fire from it and fire a few quick return shots with his boltpistol, however the multilaser is well protected so he quickly steps into cover to avoid taking sustained hits from it. Would that be plausible to most 40k readers? Would the ambush weapon being a multilaser underwhelm and be laughed at?

Actually, they're pretty good. A multilaser's punch is about comparable to a heavy bolter and it's as capable of killing marines as most crew-served antipersonnel weapons.

There could be different 'classes' of multilaser (there will be a mars patter, kantrael pattern, etc, but the difference in effect between those tends to be more minor than you're talking about), but you'd probably find in the way 40k works that there'd be a different 'label' - so it wouldn't technically be a 'multilaser'. The hotshot volley gun, for example, is broadly speaking similar to the multilaser, but isn't given the same lable.

It seems strange that a turret or platform mounted multilaser that could draw on big energy cells and cooling has far less penetrative power than the backpack powered hotshot lasguns, which are also rapid fire.

The hotshot weapon emphasises armour penetration over organic damage. Whilst it's overall lower power, each individual shot is more penetrative (i.e. more focused) but less potent overall than a tank-mounted multilaser (and there is a lower rate of fire).

imagine that each multilaser 'shot' represents a centimetre-across 'bullet' of laser energy, so imagine it's taking big chunks burnt out of the front of its target (or vapourised from thermal shock).

A hotshot weapon is firing fraction-of-a-milimetre-across 'bullets' - more energy than a lasgun but less than a multilaser but much more tightly focused than either - so the target is left with multiple needle-thin holes right through it. Unless it happens to pierce a critical nerve or artery, not actually that great at putting you down and keeping you down, but far harder to stop with armour.

I'm working on a fan-comic and wanting to use a heavy multilaser to ambush a Marine, but he's confident enough in his armour to take a burst of fire from it and fire a few quick return shots with his boltpistol, however the multilaser is well protected so he quickly steps into cover to avoid taking sustained hits from it. Would that be plausible to most 40k readers? Would the ambush weapon being a multilaser underwhelm and be laughed at?

It's not underwhelming at all. Multilasers are pretty decent heavy weapons somewhere between heavy bolters and autocannon in punch, and because of the rate at which they 'eat' power, are usually encountered emplaced on vehicles or bunkers.

What you've described is sort of feasible.
The marine would know that his armour can take a bit of punishment but it wouldn't take many hits to kill him - or at least cripple him - but he might well think he can get his shot off and kill the crew faster than they can aim and fire on him.
If taking fire from heavy weapon at medium-to-long range, a marine's first response would be 'duck and cover' if it's available - power armor helps with small arms fire but it's only of limited use against sighted-up heavy weapons, but once in cover he would have to pop out of cover again to shoot.

Note that that's not true of a primarily short-range ambush, where the astartes doctrine response is 'countercharge immediately'.

The only time I've read about them being used is in the Ciaphas Cain books. From what I can remember it heats up the targets before melting through them (obviously it doesn't take long to heat the armour). The CC books however use the lore more loosely than many other BL books.

phillv85 wrote:
The only time I've read about them being used is in the Ciaphas Cain books. From what I can remember it heats up the targets before melting through them (obviously it doesn't take long to heat the armour). The CC books however use the lore more loosely than many other BL books.

They don't go into much detail about multilasers in the ciaphas cain novels. IIRC the Valhallan chimeras are heavy bolter models. The few times that multilasers appear on PDF vehicles they aren't really explained in detail other than they are vehicle weapons with a high rate of fire that are capable of wounding tyranid MCs.

Ah right, I can't really remember. I thought they burned holes in a few Ork vehicles.

With regard to the Hotshot comparison, you need to consider what the difference actually is.

Technically, any Lasgun can be hotshotted. It just needs to be hooked up to extra juice. However, that knackers the workings of the Lasgun really quickly. And given reliability is a big part of why the Lasgun is so common, that’s a significant drawback.

By extension, we could say the same about the Multilaser. Again, it’s main attraction from a military standpoint is its reliability, and plentiful ammo that doesn’t actually take up that much space.

Hotshot that, and you run the very real risk of your APCs losing their main weapon during a battle. It’s just not worth it.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
With regard to the Hotshot comparison, you need to consider what the difference actually is.

Technically, any Lasgun can be hotshotted. It just needs to be hooked up to extra juice. However, that knackers the workings of the Lasgun really quickly. And given reliability is a big part of why the Lasgun is so common, that’s a significant drawback.

By extension, we could say the same about the Multilaser. Again, it’s main attraction from a military standpoint is its reliability, and plentiful ammo that doesn’t actually take up that much space.

Hotshot that, and you run the very real risk of your APCs losing their main weapon during a battle. It’s just not worth it.

Well, you could juice up the multilaser. But then to maintain the reliability you would need to reinforce the barrel. Then maybe you should also reduce the fire-rate- that would help maintain the barrel life too...

Currently, that weapon is known as a lascannon

Well yes and no

Multilaser uses the same juice as a Lascannon, but spits the beam into multiple, less punchy version.

I mean, canonically speaking. I think. It may have changed!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well yes and no

Multilaser uses the same juice as a Lascannon, but spits the beam into multiple, less punchy version.

I mean, canonically speaking. I think. It may have changed!

Sentinels, being the only unit I can think of with access to either option, have different powerpacks for each. The lascannon one looks a bit chunkier. I don't think that means lascannons can't run off the same powerpack, but I would expect a lascannon to run out after many fewer shots than a multilaser. I suppose to an extent the lascannon is to a multilaser what a long-las is to a hot-shot lasgun. Both use broadly the same power directed towards either rapid fire, or single-powerful shots, although the penetration aspect is flipped.

As it happens, there are very few examples of Imperial rapid-firing lasers with more power/penetration than a multilaser. The las-talon on the Primaris tank is a new example. The only other one is the Arachnus blaze cannon, used by the Custodes in the Great Crusade (so hardly a common weapon). This is basically a lascannon that fires as fast as a multilaser, so I suppose it is at the limits of what a weapon that size can do. This tank has two on the turret.

Ahh, but again we come across the same maxim.

Powerful weapons are one thing. Easily constructed, known to be reliable, and ‘point and click’ enough that even an idiot can use them effectively is entirely another, and I dare say actually preferable when you consider the size of the Astra Militarum.

Why spend weeks drilling and training mooks to use slightly complex weapons, when you can hand them something and say ‘this end at enemy, squeeze that, bad guys go squish’ and get it over and done with in a few hours - most of which would be getting them to rapidly reload.

Hence the Multilaser is a solid choice. Same principle as other basic Las weapons. Just a wee bit more training because of the vehicle’s impact on accuracy.

The Sentinel lascannon has one big battery, rather than the three small ones for the multilaser.

On the other hand, each under-wing lascannon on the Valkyrie uses a group of three small batteries, similar to the Sentinel's multilaser powerpack and the batteries on the aircraft multilasers on the Vulture, and the Taurox Venator (which is another unit with the option to mount either multilasers or lascannons, twin-linked in this case) uses the same power pack for both options.

It may be to do with rate of fire, and remaining ammo indicators for the pilots.

If your airborne or in a Sentinel, those matter far more than to a tank crew, because when you start running low you risk being able to perform your role.

With the triple pack thing, burn through the first two, and you’d likely (I don’t actually know), get a warning that you’re down to 1/3. Single battery? Perhaps less precise indicators.

Could also be to limit burst length, ala Ogryn Ripperguns

 Haighus wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well yes and no

Multilaser uses the same juice as a Lascannon, but spits the beam into multiple, less punchy version.

I mean, canonically speaking. I think. It may have changed!

Sentinels, being the only unit I can think of with access to either option, have different powerpacks for each. The lascannon one looks a bit chunkier. I don't think that means lascannons can't run off the same powerpack, but I would expect a lascannon to run out after many fewer shots than a multilaser. I suppose to an extent the lascannon is to a multilaser what a long-las is to a hot-shot lasgun. Both use broadly the same power directed towards either rapid fire, or single-powerful shots, although the penetration aspect is flipped.

As it happens, there are very few examples of Imperial rapid-firing lasers with more power/penetration than a multilaser. The las-talon on the Primaris tank is a new example. The only other one is the Arachnus blaze cannon, used by the Custodes in the Great Crusade (so hardly a common weapon). This is basically a lascannon that fires as fast as a multilaser, so I suppose it is at the limits of what a weapon that size can do. This tank has two on the turret.

There is also the Las-impulsor for the Imperial Knights - acts a a rapid fireing multilaser (2D6 shots vs D3) on its "low" setting

Another prominent feature of a Multi-laser in BL literature was in one of the Inquisitor Eisenhorn series (I forget which).

The Inquisitor and co. were confronted by a large mining vehicle while underground with an automated multi-laser mount. It caused great but not fatal damage to vehicles and such, while mowing down servitors like they were nothing. No Marines involved.

I cant remember all the details, but might be worth looking into, as there was quite a bit written about that combat sequence.

Spartacus wrote:
Another prominent feature of a Multi-laser in BL literature was in one of the Inquisitor Eisenhorn series (I forget which).

The Inquisitor and co. were confronted by a large mining vehicle while underground with an automated multi-laser mount. It caused great but not fatal damage to vehicles and such, while mowing down servitors like they were nothing. No Marines involved.

I cant remember all the details, but might be worth looking into, as there was quite a bit written about that combat sequence.

Book three of the "Eisenhorn" trilogy IIRC. They weren't the ones being confronted by it, the Magos Bure had crafted the mining vehicle to study a planetoid's mineral content. It was mowing down unarmored human miners while also deploying combat servitors("stalkers") to root them out as well.

It was multiple multi-laser mounts serving effectively as 'point defense' in case the thing was getting charged.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Spartacus wrote:
Another prominent feature of a Multi-laser in BL literature was in one of the Inquisitor Eisenhorn series (I forget which).

The Inquisitor and co. were confronted by a large mining vehicle while underground with an automated multi-laser mount. It caused great but not fatal damage to vehicles and such, while mowing down servitors like they were nothing. No Marines involved.

I cant remember all the details, but might be worth looking into, as there was quite a bit written about that combat sequence.

Book three of the "Eisenhorn" trilogy IIRC. They weren't the ones being confronted by it, the Magos Bure had crafted the mining vehicle to study a planetoid's mineral content. It was mowing down unarmored human miners while also deploying combat servitors("stalkers") to root them out as well.

It was multiple multi-laser mounts serving effectively as 'point defense' in case the thing was getting charged.

Book two actually I'd just re-read it