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I don't think Stormtrooper have looked especially useless in the Mandalorian. They managed to get their moments to shine once in a while and served their purpose as to establish that our heroes/villains are cut from another cloth and that the Empire and its hold-overs is ruled by moral monsters whose preferred military tactic is to swarm their enemies with wave after wave of faceless, completelely endoctrinated troopers to drown any opposition. It's shown pretty well when they attack a rocky hill held by two snipers without any sort of air or ground artilley support (a suicide tactic if there is one). Even then, they do have their moments. In episode 3, they manage to keep the heroes pin down and about to bring them to their doom until the Mandalorian makes a feat of insane heroism. In the last episode of the first season, they almost kill the hero and his band and even in the 6th episode of the 2nd season, they manage to get two of the heroes cornered and about to die when they are suddenly saved by Boba Fett's sudden reaperence. It's also in this episode that they actually succeed in their mission of capturing Grogu.

The episode you most heavily reference is the only episode of the show that I think is not good specifically because the Storm Troopers are so absurdly bumbling and useless and basically nothing else is going on. Holding that up as your example of Storm Troopers portrayed as dangerous is truly baffling.

 Manchu wrote:
The episode you most heavily reference is the only episode of the show that I think is not good specifically because the Storm Troopers are so absurdly bumbling and useless and basically nothing else is going on. Holding that up as your example of Storm Troopers portrayed as dangerous is truly baffling.

They won that battle and help establish Gideon futher as a mass murderer of his own men, cornered two main character and almost killed them. What more do you want? Them doing it easily? For what purpose?

epronovost wrote:
I don't think Stormtrooper have looked especially useless in the Mandalorian. They managed to get their moments to shine once in a while and served their purpose as to establish that our heroes/villains are cut from another cloth and that the Empire and its hold-overs is ruled by moral monsters whose preferred military tactic is to swarm their enemies with wave after wave of faceless, completelely endoctrinated troopers to drown any opposition. It's shown pretty well when they attack a rocky hill held by two snipers without any sort of air or ground artilley support (a suicide tactic if there is one). Even then, they do have their moments. In episode 3, they manage to keep the heroes pin down and about to bring them to their doom until the Mandalorian makes a feat of insane heroism. In the last episode of the first season, they almost kill the hero and his band and even in the 6th episode of the 2nd season, they manage to get two of the heroes cornered and about to die when they are suddenly saved by Boba Fett's sudden reaperence. It's also in this episode that they actually succeed in their mission of capturing Grogu.

Gotta agree with Manchu, that just highlights my point that stormtroopers are not a credible threat when they have to rely on human wave tactics which ALSO proves to be unsuccessful. The Empire remnants at this point are tattered and battered troopers that are either raw recruits or hardened veterans, they shouldn't be able to use those tactics effectively anymore when they are no longer the dominant power in the galaxy. The Empire doesn't have the vast recruitment pool they used to have anymore, it would be more likely to imply they're hardened vets since most newbies would have already deserted or surrendered at this point, so the suicidal tendencies of these stormtroopers doesn't make much sense in that regard.

Also, you misattribute the mission success to capturing Grogu, since it was the dark troopers and not the stormtroopers who did that. The stormtroopers died literally for nothing, since all they had to do was wait for Grogu's weird force shield to turn off and do the same thing.

 Grimskul wrote:
Gotta agree with Manchu, that just highlights my point that stormtroopers are not a credible threat when they have to rely on human wave tactics which ALSO proves to be unsuccessful. The Empire remnants at this point are tattered and battered troopers that are either raw recruits or hardened veterans, they shouldn't be able to use those tactics effectively anymore when they are no longer the dominant power in the galaxy. The Empire doesn't have the vast recruitment pool they used to have anymore, it would be more likely to imply they're hardened vets since most newbies would have already deserted or surrendered at this point, so the suicidal tendencies of these stormtroopers doesn't make much sense in that regard.

The Empire isn't a "rational or effective" government and military machine. It is and always was a dogmatic engine filled with ideologues who have a political view of war, not a strategical and tactical one. They use tactics that are ruinous because they are their tactics. I think the following episode further enforce this idea by describing how their officers are so proud to have launched ruinous suicidal attacks out of pure spite because it shows their dedication to a cruel and pityless order. Even in Solo they show that Empire war machine works on wave after wave of poorly train, brainwashed troops launching themselves at the enemy and suffering horrible casualties. Yes, the Empire was ruled by a madman, supported by his sycophant and similarly genocidal monsters. The rational Imperial officers have already jumped ship when the Emperor and Vader died and those left in the Mandalorian are the most hardcore supporter of the Empire's war machine and doctrine. You can see it in episode 3 of season 2 when the ship's captain goes straight to suicide without a hint of hesitation.

Also, you misattribute the mission success to capturing Grogu, since it was the dark troopers and not the stormtroopers who did that. The stormtroopers died literally for nothing, since all they had to do was wait for Grogu's weird force shield to turn off and do the same thing.

The force shield is unknown to the Imperials, though they might suspect it, and sending the Dark Trooper to snatch Grogu was only effective if nobod was there to gun down the Dark Trooper as they move in. The Stormtroopers were a diversion and it worked perfectly. They played their part well.

It’s not clear why Gideon deployed any Storm Troopers on Tython. They did not need to act as a diversion as, pretty clearly, the Dark Troopers would have handily killed Din, Boba, and Fennec and extracted the Child. Perhaps he acted out of an abundance of caution?

Perhaps, as epronovost seems to argue, the Imperial mindset is rigidly committed to intentionally wasteful tactics as a matter of some inscrutable ideological factor. Although, I have to say, that sounds like rubbish to me. Operation Cinder really has no bearing on the sheer incompetence we see on Tython from the Storm Troopers, other than the notion that literally all that’s left of Gideon’s manpower are slapstick nincompoops; which I don’t think is impossible.

But nevertheless that still doesn’t solve the problem of it making for a very weak action scene.

As Manchu mentioned, the Stormtroopers weren't needed since Mando barely managed to kill one and only by pure luck with the beskar spear, which he didn't have at the time, nor his jetpack, meaning he would have been royally screwed since there were like 3-4 versus the one he was facing alone. Boba maybe could have killed 1 or 2 with his rocket pack missile, but given that they were clearly blaster resistant, they could have easily killed them all if they were deployed earlier.

Also, I feel that if the Imperial war machine was this incompetent, then how did they manage to even conquer or maintain rule over the galaxy for so long? Prior to the construction of the Death Star, the Imperial military was the main way to keep dissident planets in line, if they were this wasteful with resources there's no way the Rebellion would have to be so covert for so long. Hell, the attack on Hoth would have failed miserably if Stormtroopers are as garbage as you hold them to be.

Also, as far as I know in Solo, the soldiers they display there which Han is part of aren't stormtroopers. They're known as swamp troopers and are explicitly outside of the Stormtrooper Corps as part of the regular Imperial infantry. So that's not a good example of the Empire being super idiotic with their use of stormtroopers.

Maybe the Rebellion didn’t really win so much as the Empire simply disintegrated under the stress of sheer incompetence at all levels, continuing on without disruption in the post-Endor situation.

 Grimskul wrote:
Also, I feel that if the Imperial war machine was this incompetent, then how did they manage to even conquer or maintain rule over the galaxy for so long? Prior to the construction of the Death Star, the Imperial military was the main way to keep dissident planets in line, if they were this wasteful with resources there's no way the Rebellion would have to be so covert for so long. Hell, the attack on Hoth would have failed miserably if Stormtroopers are as garbage as you hold them to be.

The Empire lasted a big fat 20 years from the end of the Clone Wars to the death of Palpatine. That's not a long time at all and during all that time they lost, bit by bit control fo the situation the moment organised rebellious efforts start. The only reason the Empire "lasted so long", was that they didn't get involved in any major fight for a decade except against small independant planets who clearly don't have the resources of a galactic empire. It's easy to win when you are a bully that attacks only the weak. The main strength of the Empire always was it's vast fleet of star destroyers and their super weapons and machineries. They have war walkes and tanks while their opponents don't or have so very few. It's not their troops or its officers quality that made them dangerous.

 Manchu wrote:
Maybe the Rebellion didn’t really win so much as the Empire simply disintegrated under the stress of sheer incompetence at all levels, continuing on without disruption in the post-Endor situation.

Possibly. Palpatine never intended the Empire to ever continue without him, given the clear lack of succession in the Imperial hierarchy. Most of the Imperial power structure was funnelled to currying favour with the Emperor, which meant that with his and Vader's death, it would basically fracture into warring Moffs over their own personal fiefdoms, similar to the warlord period of China after the Qing dynasty collapsed and Yuan Shikai's failed attempt at becoming the next Emperor of China.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

epronovost wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
Also, I feel that if the Imperial war machine was this incompetent, then how did they manage to even conquer or maintain rule over the galaxy for so long? Prior to the construction of the Death Star, the Imperial military was the main way to keep dissident planets in line, if they were this wasteful with resources there's no way the Rebellion would have to be so covert for so long. Hell, the attack on Hoth would have failed miserably if Stormtroopers are as garbage as you hold them to be.

The Empire lasted a big fat 20 years from the end of the Clone Wars to the death of Palpatine. That's not a long time at all and during all that time they lost, bit by bit control fo the situation the moment organised rebellious efforts start. The only reason the Empire "lasted so long", was that they didn't get involved in any major fight for a decade except against small independant planets who clearly don't have the resources of a galactic empire. It's easy to win when you are a bully that attacks only the weak. The main strength of the Empire always was it's vast fleet of star destroyers and their super weapons, not their troops or its officer.

I think you underestimate how important occupying forces are when it comes to planets. Ships are super important for mobility and power projection, but manpower is huge when it comes to actually ensuring compliance on potentially dissident planets. You can't exactly check house to house with giant tanks, and super weapons like the Death Star didn't come into play until near the end of the Empire. If ships/tech were all that were needed, then the U.S. wouldn't need military bases all over the world. Also, by your very logic then, why wasn't there an outright open secessionist movement like the Separatists did like in the Clone Wars? Why did the Rebellion need to work in cells covertly with one another to undermine Imperial control when they could just collectively flip the bird at the Imperials and rebel in a coordinated fashion? If the Empire's main forces are this weak and incompetent, it should be even easier for the Rebels to win than the Republic did back in the Clone Wars now that you don't have Sidious puppeteering both sides of the war.

 Grimskul wrote:
I think you underestimate how important occupying forces are when it comes to planets. Ships are super important for mobility and power projection, but manpower is huge when it comes to actually ensuring compliance on potentially dissident planets. You can't exactly check house to house with giant tanks, and super weapons like the Death Star didn't come into play until near the end of the Empire. If ships/tech were all that were needed, then the U.S. wouldn't need military bases all over the world. Also, by your very logic then, why wasn't there an outright open secessionist movement like the Separatists did like in the Clone Wars? Why did the Rebellion need to work in cells covertly with one another to undermine Imperial control when they could just collectively flip the bird at the Imperials and rebel in a coordinated fashion? If the Empire's main forces are this weak and incompetent, it should be even easier for the Rebels to win than the Republic did back in the Clone Wars now that you don't have Sidious puppeteering both sides of the war.

Because it takes a LOT of money to create, finance, command and equip an army. It also takes time. The galaxy, while heavily armed in general, wasn't very militarised. There is mention that the Republic had no standing army before the Clone Wars, most planets had tiny defense forces and corporations were the more heavily armed factions. The galaxy was just recovering from a giant war that opposed the Republic and an alliance piloted by giant mega-corporation. Following the defeat of their army and the disasembly of their droid factory, you would need to create entirely new factories to produce new weapons bankrolled by basically nobody. At best you end up with a collection of often competing rebel cells composed of poorly equipped and untrained fighters. That's not a threat even for poorly trained and commanded soldiers provided they are numerous enough and rely on terror tactics to rob those "freedom fighter" from local support (or multiply it by 10; creating a mass rebellion movement that unify itself). If that sounds exactly how the rebellion started and ended it's not a coincidence. The Empire was completely inefficient at stopping rebel cells from coordonating, acquiring new war material (down to star ships and battle cruisers) and new recruits to fill in their casualties. That's why they lost the war so quickly. 20 years to completely overthrow a galactic empire that was born after being the only faction in the galaxy with an army and a star fleet is very short.

Don't forget for many under the Empire's rule it didn't happen overnight. Plus for many core worlds the Empire coming into being represented the end of a period of war and threat from the machine based empires/trade unions that were rising up and causing trouble. In theory worlds like Naboo would have welcomed the Emperor and the Empire for having freed them from trade embargo threats.

The twisting of the knife came slower and later and isn't something we actually see much of. Indeed when you pause and think about it was life under the Emperor honestly that bad? Even Tatooine was likely safer with the Empire in charge than the Hutts.


This is honestly one failing of the series, but its because it approaches things in a high-fantasy style where its all focused on the ruling classes. We don't honestly see life as a citizen very much and the snippets we do see don't seem to be that bad; unless you're a rebel or a smuggler.

I should probably start a new thread for this but it’s such a small detail it probably won’t matter but, do all the completely different stormtrooper uniforms and equipment make any sense from a logistical point of view? Obviously certain environments and terrains demand specialist suits but does driving a certain vehicle or using a certain gun demand a completely different uniform?

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I should probably start a new thread for this but it’s such a small detail it probably won’t matter but, do all the completely different stormtrooper uniforms and equipment make any sense from a logistical point of view? Obviously certain environments and terrains demand specialist suits but does driving a certain vehicle or using a certain gun demand a completely different uniform?

When you consider the sheer scale of the Empire it actually makes a lot of sense. The Army started out as the Clone army produced on one world with a single production focus. So they'd have had the same generic gear and at the time a central production and logistics setup.

As things shift from the Republic to the Empire you start to see more troops deployed everywhere. This would necessitate the installation of different production facilities in different regions to allow troops to be more efficiently supported by logistics and to reduce the potential for bottlenecks; overrunning supplies and for attacks on supplies. Once you start to out-source production to different regions you create the grounds for allowing local variation. Differences in regional resources might necessitate some changes to better account for local shortages and excess. You might also have different leaders ordering different customised suits and uniforms. This might be purely vanity or serve for local regional variations in environments and thus serve a functional aspect.

You also cannot overlook timescales. Even if they kept to a generic design there's every chance that a central change to design wouldn't get rolled out everywhere at once. So you could have multiple generations of armour and suits out there at different stages of being updated.

Manchu wrote:Maybe the Rebellion didn’t really win so much as the Empire simply disintegrated under the stress of sheer incompetence at all levels, continuing on without disruption in the post-Endor situation.

When they introduced it into canon, it seems like Operation Cinder was originally supposed to be the be-all and end-all explanation for the collapse of the Empire as a political body and ideology. Basically have the Empire shoot itself in the foot with a gun so big it couldn't possibly recover, and anyone in the empire that was halfway sympathetic would quit in disgust, paving the way for a 30 year peace under a benevolent New Republic.

Obviously someone underestimated how much writers love Imperial Remnant stories, since in practice the narrative device of Operation Cinder has made it so the hostility remnant forces show to each other, the lack of support and equipment, and general bad morale and performance among the rank and file are now no longer neccesarily due to a chain of bravado and incompetence all the way up the chain of command, but more likely simply because that unit has had its support structure undercut and is desperate to stay afloat.

Future War Cultist wrote:I should probably start a new thread for this but it’s such a small detail it probably won’t matter but, do all the completely different stormtrooper uniforms and equipment make any sense from a logistical point of view? Obviously certain environments and terrains demand specialist suits but does driving a certain vehicle or using a certain gun demand a completely different uniform?

Honestly no, that's about selling toys, and I would much prefer to see variations on stormtrooper armour than a completely different helmet and brest plate for every role from line trooper to truck driver to janitor.

Not to get to political, but Imperials are fascists.

Part of fascist ideology IS the core idea that it is a death cult. Every fascist is a "hero" but ones heroism can only be proven in death. Therefore, their ideological war fighting doctrines need to embrace some form of self-destructive tendencies.

Per Ecco:
Everybody is Educated to Become a Hero", which leads to the embrace of a cult of death. As Eco observes, "[t]he Ur-Fascist hero is impatient to die. In his impatience, he more frequently sends other people to death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism#Umberto_Eco

Some of the other tenets and definitions also outline why the Empire still uses some tactics that they do. Interesting reading to apply to this fiction setting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:
Maybe the Rebellion didn’t really win so much as the Empire simply disintegrated under the stress of sheer incompetence at all levels, continuing on without disruption in the post-Endor situation.

Yes, that is pretty much exactly what happened. How else do you explain Operation: Cinder?

 Easy E wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Maybe the Rebellion didn’t really win so much as the Empire simply disintegrated under the stress of sheer incompetence at all levels, continuing on without disruption in the post-Endor situation.

Yes, that is pretty much exactly what happened. How else do you explain Operation: Cinder?

Cinder was the Emperor's idea, not any remnant commander's.

Yeah. Cinder is very, very dumb, but it indicates a continuation of absolute authority, not a gradual disintegration or incompetence.

Its the ultimate in the bizarre 'just as planned' Palpatine shenanigans.

I don't think it's that bizarre, given that at the time they came up with it, the plan was not to have Sheev come back - burning down the Empire in front of whoever (Vader or Luke, he would presume) tried to take it from him. The fact that it would kill trillions of people, including capable soldiers loyal to him is just gravy on top - because he was a cruel, petty, spiteful man who brutalized his allies and enemies alike.

It only stops working once we factor in him being alive all along thanks to Rise of Skywalker... but retconning the Emperor's bareheaded decisions into 5D Chess has always been left to the books anyway, give them a few years and someone will say it all makes perfect sense.

 Captain Joystick wrote:

 Easy E wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Maybe the Rebellion didn’t really win so much as the Empire simply disintegrated under the stress of sheer incompetence at all levels, continuing on without disruption in the post-Endor situation.

Yes, that is pretty much exactly what happened. How else do you explain Operation: Cinder?

Cinder was the Emperor's idea, not any remnant commander's.

Sure, it was his idea, but who has to carry it out?

Hint: It wasn't the droid army, the clones, or the Republic.

 Captain Joystick wrote:

Future War Cultist wrote:I should probably start a new thread for this but it’s such a small detail it probably won’t matter but, do all the completely different stormtrooper uniforms and equipment make any sense from a logistical point of view? Obviously certain environments and terrains demand specialist suits but does driving a certain vehicle or using a certain gun demand a completely different uniform?

Honestly no, that's about selling toys, and I would much prefer to see variations on stormtrooper armour than a completely different helmet and brest plate for every role from line trooper to truck driver to janitor.

Indeed, the original idea for Stormtroopers was that they were all identical, which was supposed to add to their fear factor, as it made it impossible to tell the raw recruits from the elite veterans. But... variants sell.

And there is a certain amount of logic in units or crew having gear that is tailored specifically for thier role, even if it does make resupply a little more complicated.

Easy E wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:

 Easy E wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Maybe the Rebellion didn’t really win so much as the Empire simply disintegrated under the stress of sheer incompetence at all levels, continuing on without disruption in the post-Endor situation.

Yes, that is pretty much exactly what happened. How else do you explain Operation: Cinder?

Cinder was the Emperor's idea, not any remnant commander's.

Sure, it was his idea, but who has to carry it out?

Hint: It wasn't the droid army, the clones, or the Republic.

Sorry, I thought you were saying Cinder was a sign of incompetence because you thought the plan itself was dumb.

Are you saying the problem was in the implementation? Something underwhelming about the trillions killed and countless planets rendered uninhabitable?

insaniak wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:

Future War Cultist wrote:I should probably start a new thread for this but it’s such a small detail it probably won’t matter but, do all the completely different stormtrooper uniforms and equipment make any sense from a logistical point of view? Obviously certain environments and terrains demand specialist suits but does driving a certain vehicle or using a certain gun demand a completely different uniform?

Honestly no, that's about selling toys, and I would much prefer to see variations on stormtrooper armour than a completely different helmet and brest plate for every role from line trooper to truck driver to janitor.

Indeed, the original idea for Stormtroopers was that they were all identical, which was supposed to add to their fear factor, as it made it impossible to tell the raw recruits from the elite veterans. But... variants sell.

And there is a certain amount of logic in units or crew having gear that is tailored specifically for thier role, even if it does make resupply a little more complicated.

I get the argument, certainly. If your janitor needs to scrub the floors of a live fire zone he should have whatever protection the Empire thinks he's worth and fly the flag and all that, it's just weird that they have a radically different armour design for outdoor patrols at the sandy vacation gettaway base when a beige stormtrooper with a skirt or something would probably make more sense in universe and cater to the preferences of biased nerds like me.

But I feel like them doubling and tripling down on these different armour marks and variants plays up this idea that Lucasfilm embraced wholehartedly before the acquisition that Storm Trooper armour was inherently bad (and Clone Trooper armour was inherently good) at literally everything it was meant to do, it doesn't provide protection, it doesn't stay clean, it hinders the sight of every operator who uses it, it doesn't intimidate anyone, so they need an alternative to allow stormtroopers to be halfway effective at operating in a scout role, operating in temperature extreeme environments, and now, driving trucks. And I always kinda hoped that splitting the EU off into Legends was part of some plan to make stormies and ties more threatening than the speed bumps that years of supplemental material had whittled them down to.

I am saying Fascism leads to wasteful tactics, and the Empire is fascist. Such wasteful tactics are defined by Operation: Cinder.

 Captain Joystick wrote:
[... it doesn't provide protection,...

I feel like this is one place where perceptions are skewed by the fact that most of the time when we see people shooting at stormtroopers, it's the heroes, who are better shots than the average goon. According to the background material, stormtrooper armour is supposed to provide protection from glancing blaster shots by dispersing the impact and the energy from the shot, but won't hold up to a direct hit. But the only time we really see this in action is when they storm the Tantive at the start of Episode IV against the hail of fire from the rebel troopers. From then on, we just see a constant succession of troopers being consistently felled by single shots, which gives the impression that ze armour, it does nussing.

It would be nice to see more scenes thrown in where stormtroopers are a bit more durable... but really, the idea that they're wearing mass produced armour designed to intimidate while not actually delivering the protection promised by the manufacturer isn't too out there, either.

 insaniak wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:
[... it doesn't provide protection,...

I feel like this is one place where perceptions are skewed by the fact that most of the time when we see people shooting at stormtroopers, it's the heroes, who are better shots than the average goon.

Which is problematic since pretty much none of them should be. 'Farm' boy, princess, pilot and co-pilot/mechanic. None of them spends part of most days drilling with guns the way a soldier should/could. Arguably Leia is the most likely to have dedicated defense lessons, but she's from 'a peaceful planet with no weapons.' Han and Chewie would have some practical gun skills, but not regular practice. Same is pretty much true for the Sequel trilogy, except for Poe.
The prequels have the best case for characters with heroic fightin' skillz. But, you know, laser swords, not guns.

Voss wrote:
Which is problematic since pretty much none of them should be. 'Farm' boy, princess, pilot and co-pilot/mechanic. None of them spends part of most days drilling with guns the way a soldier should/could. Arguably Leia is the most likely to have dedicated defense lessons, but she's from 'a peaceful planet with no weapons.' Han and Chewie would have some practical gun skills, but not regular practice. Same is pretty much true for the Sequel trilogy, except for Poe.
The prequels have the best case for characters with heroic fightin' skillz. But, you know, laser swords, not guns.

Th entire cast of heroes in the Mandalorian also classes as weapon and combat expert since the main character is a high caliber bounty hunter raised as a warrior since infancy, an ex-imperial assassin, another high caliber bounty hunter raised as a warrior since infancy, a couple of war veteran warriors who have trained in since their youngest age, an elite soldier with high experience of combat and Grogu, the most adorable lifeform in Star Wars... okay maybe not that last one.

Voss wrote:

Which is problematic since pretty much none of them should be. 'Farm' boy, princess, pilot and co-pilot/mechanic. None of them spends part of most days drilling with guns the way a soldier should/could. Arguably Leia is the most likely to have dedicated defense lessons, but she's from 'a peaceful planet with no weapons.' Same is pretty much true for the Sequel trilogy, except for Poe.
The prequels have the best case for characters with heroic fightin' skillz. But, you know, laser swords.

Luke grew up on a farm and carries a rifle around in his speeder which he presumably knows how to use, has the Force, and when he's not picking up power converters with his mates, spends his weekends bulls-eying womp rats in his T-16. Leia is a member of the Rebel Alliance and a spy (Take her away!) and has the Force. Chewie is a 200-ish-year old war veteran, and Han has always been described as an exceptional shot. He'd call it luck.

And also they're the heroes in a spaghetti western in space, so of course they're good shots.

 insaniak wrote:

Voss wrote:

Which is problematic since pretty much none of them should be. 'Farm' boy, princess, pilot and co-pilot/mechanic. None of them spends part of most days drilling with guns the way a soldier should/could. Arguably Leia is the most likely to have dedicated defense lessons, but she's from 'a peaceful planet with no weapons.' Same is pretty much true for the Sequel trilogy, except for Poe.
The prequels have the best case for characters with heroic fightin' skillz. But, you know, laser swords.

Luke grew up on a farm and carries a rifle around in his speeder which he presumably knows how to use, has the Force, and when he's not picking up power converters with his mates, spends his weekends bulls-eying womp rats in his T-16. Leia is a member of the Rebel Alliance and a spy (Take her away!) and has the Force. Chewie is a 200-ish-year old war veteran, and Han has always been described as an exceptional shot. He'd call it luck.

And also they're the heroes in a spaghetti western in space, so of course they're good shots.

Sure, genre conventions handwave a lot of stuff.

The point is, various civilians and dubiously a 'war veteran' (he vaguely stood around in a cameo scene with yoda and 200? really?) vs soldiers; soldiers win. It isn't even a contest with movie genre BS.

I know I'm very late to the party (like several days later!) but I'm finally watching the Mandalorian. I'm two episodes into the first season and like it so far. It's bittersweet in that I'm finally enjoying something/anything Disney Star Wars again (the only other time being Rogue One) but disappointing in that the sequel trilogy was such a wasted opportunity.

Voss wrote:

Sure, genre conventions handwave a lot of stuff.

Well, yes, but having the heroes all shot and killed by the highly competent and well equipped enemy soldiers in the first three minutes of the movie would have made for a much shorter-lived franchise.

...dubiously a 'war veteran' (he vaguely stood around in a cameo scene with yoda and 200? really?) ...

He also takes out a droid tank with a vine and a meltabomb.

And yes, 200-ish. He gives his age as 190 in Solo.