What Khayon and Magnus did in these books

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**locarno24**

After death, probably. During death, when a death scream would actually occur, not necessarily; anything boosting your psy rating would potentially still be doing so as you die.

If you've got a psychic implant sending your thoughts into the minds of 1300 world's inhabitents, then whilst the black templars are killing it, the message would change quickly from "you, go be evil here...you, go be evil here....where did the black templars come from?" to "aaaaaaaaaggggh!!!" followed by the transmission stopping as the organic being the cyborg tech is plugged into dying. I don't see why it would necessarily cut off before the "aaaaaaaaaggggh!!!".

And as counter-examples, the Drukhari Crucible of Malediction and the Aeldari Soulstone are psychic technology which do keep working (indeed arguably only start working) after the death of a psyker to which they are connected.

**BrianDavion**

locarno24 wrote:
After death, probably. During death, when a death scream would actually occur, not necessarily; anything boosting your psy rating would potentially still be doing so as you die.

If you've got a psychic implant sending your thoughts into the minds of 1300 world's inhabitents, then whilst the black templars are killing it, the message would change quickly from "you, go be evil here...you, go be evil here....where did the black templars come from?" to "aaaaaaaaaggggh!!!" followed by the transmission stopping as the organic being the cyborg tech is plugged into dying. I don't see why it would necessarily cut off before the "aaaaaaaaaggggh!!!".

And as counter-examples, the Drukhari Crucible of Malediction and the Aeldari Soulstone are psychic technology which do keep working (indeed arguably only start working) after the death of a psyker to which they are connected.

here has also been speculation that the Astronomicon itself by M 41 is basicly just the channeled death scream of the thousand psykers a day

**Onething123456**

locarno24 wrote:
After death, probably. During death, when a death scream would actually occur, not necessarily; anything boosting your psy rating would potentially still be doing so as you die.

If you've got a psychic implant sending your thoughts into the minds of 1300 world's inhabitents, then whilst the black templars are killing it, the message would change quickly from "you, go be evil here...you, go be evil here....where did the black templars come from?" to "aaaaaaaaaggggh!!!" followed by the transmission stopping as the organic being the cyborg tech is plugged into dying. I don't see why it would necessarily cut off before the "aaaaaaaaaggggh!!!".

And as counter-examples, the Drukhari Crucible of Malediction and the Aeldari Soulstone are psychic technology which do keep working (indeed arguably only start working) after the death of a psyker to which they are connected.

That was used to stop psychic powers what you are talking about.

When the Cacodominus' death scream went through the warp, it was already physically dead.

Soulstones just contain souls.

Its not possible it was amplified.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grimskul wrote:
Onething123456 wrote:
Why? Get it through your head goddamnit. I have already answered that. The moment the Cacodominus dies, technological amplifications would dissapear and have no goddamned effect on its death scream through the warp. Its technological amplification. Its going to dissapear because its technological amplification. Once the Cacodominus died, those "technological amplifications" would stop working wouldn't it? Its just technology. It would cease to work after the Cacodominus dies. And "psychic microphone"? What the hell are you talking about? It would just be technology. And the Cacodominus' death scream was purely its own soul, nothing to do with technology. It would not be a "psychic microphone". It would just amplifify its psychic power and it would cause to stop after dying. You do realize a "psychic microphone" does not make sense if its purely amplifying his psychic power? And then it would cease to work because all it would do is technologically amplify psychic power? What the hell? If its technology then it probably would not work after the Cacodominus dies because its just technology that cannot do what it does after it dies. Do you have proof it was a "psychic microphone"? Illogical. If it had used technology, its death scream would not have done that. Why the hell would technological amplification continue to work after he died? I am right. You are wrong. Its impossible the Cacodominus was technologically amplified mostly because of the Howling. One book I saw where a psyker was amplified by technology, it ceased after he died.

I'm confused why you're so vehement about the Cacodominus' Howling event not having technological amplification when by definition, as a cyborg, it was heavily implied that his cybernetics probably had a role as to why it was so devastating. Plus, considering it's a tiny fluff blurb, you really can't have any definitive argument against it. What's with the whole "I am right. You are wrong." angle? When I said you have to start a discussion, I didn't mean going coff the deep end and making arbitrary statements while calling out people for being wrong while not having anything yourself to back it up.

Heavily implied where? Because it was a cyborg?

You can, because the Howling happened, and the Cacodominus was already physically dead.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slipspace wrote:

Spoiler:

Onething123456 wrote:
Why? Get it through your head goddamnit. I have already answered that. The moment the Cacodominus dies, technological amplifications would dissapear and have no goddamned effect on its death scream through the warp. Its technological amplification. Its going to dissapear because its technological amplification. Once the Cacodominus died, those "technological amplifications" would stop working wouldn't it? Its just technology. It would cease to work after the Cacodominus dies. And "psychic microphone"? What the hell are you talking about? It would just be technology. And the Cacodominus' death scream was purely its own soul, nothing to do with technology. It would not be a "psychic microphone". It would just amplifify its psychic power and it would cause to stop after dying. You do realize a "psychic microphone" does not make sense if its purely amplifying his psychic power? And then it would cease to work because all it would do is technologically amplify psychic power? What the hell? If its technology then it probably would not work after the Cacodominus dies because its just technology that cannot do what it does after it dies. Do you have proof it was a "psychic microphone"? Illogical. If it had used technology, its death scream would not have done that. Why the hell would technological amplification continue to work after he died? I am right. You are wrong. Its impossible the Cacodominus was technologically amplified mostly because of the Howling. One book I saw where a psyker was amplified by technology, it ceased after he died.

OK, WTF is this? We're dealing with a fictional ability, a fictional alien race, using fictional technology. You can't say anything with any certainty about what the technology could or couldn't do. All this stuff about how the technology would stop working once the Cacodominus died is purely speculation. You can't know that for sure. You're making a whole bunch of absolute statements with no basis in any of the lore to back it up.

Why is speculation? Technology would stop working after it died.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slipspace wrote:

Spoiler:

Onething123456 wrote:
Why? Get it through your head goddamnit. I have already answered that. The moment the Cacodominus dies, technological amplifications would dissapear and have no goddamned effect on its death scream through the warp. Its technological amplification. Its going to dissapear because its technological amplification. Once the Cacodominus died, those "technological amplifications" would stop working wouldn't it? Its just technology. It would cease to work after the Cacodominus dies. And "psychic microphone"? What the hell are you talking about? It would just be technology. And the Cacodominus' death scream was purely its own soul, nothing to do with technology. It would not be a "psychic microphone". It would just amplifify its psychic power and it would cause to stop after dying. You do realize a "psychic microphone" does not make sense if its purely amplifying his psychic power? And then it would cease to work because all it would do is technologically amplify psychic power? What the hell? If its technology then it probably would not work after the Cacodominus dies because its just technology that cannot do what it does after it dies. Do you have proof it was a "psychic microphone"? Illogical. If it had used technology, its death scream would not have done that. Why the hell would technological amplification continue to work after he died? I am right. You are wrong. Its impossible the Cacodominus was technologically amplified mostly because of the Howling. One book I saw where a psyker was amplified by technology, it ceased after he died.

OK, WTF is this? We're dealing with a fictional ability, a fictional alien race, using fictional technology. You can't say anything with any certainty about what the technology could or couldn't do. All this stuff about how the technology would stop working once the Cacodominus died is purely speculation. You can't know that for sure. You're making a whole bunch of absolute statements with no basis in any of the lore to back it up.

Yes, its fictional. It also has basis in reality. Thats not an argument. Why would technology, even fictional, keep working after the Cacodominus died? It probably would not. The quote outright says it was the Cacodominus' own "formidable psychic power."

**BrianDavion**

A psykic death scream doesn't happen AFTER it dies, it happesn AS it dies.

**Grimskul**

Not to mention there's plenty of precedent for technology to continue working or even activate in cases of death. You've got the stasis bomb that replaced one of Lukas the Trickster's hearts that is rigged to blow when he dies so he can have "the last laugh". There's a Dark Eldar relic weapon called the "Traitors Embrace" that triggers when a Succubus equipped with it dies. How do you know if there wasn't some sort of psi-tech backlash that goes off if the Cacodominus dies while hooked up to it, or that it wasn't an intentional last "screw you" dead man's switch to the people who killed it?

**Slipspace**

Onething123456 wrote:

Yes, its fictional. It also has basis in reality. Thats not an argument. Why would technology, even fictional, keep working after the Cacodominus died? It probably would not. The quote outright says it was the Cacodominus' own "formidable psychic power."

Are you seriously saying technology that amplifies/affects psychic powers has a basis in reality? I think this thread may have officially jumped the shark. Suffice to say, your inability to even consider viewpoints outside your own makes continued discussion pretty much pointless. Nothing you're saying is indisputably correct, it's speculation just the same as everyone else's opinions about the subject. Take a step back and ask yourself what proof you have that what you're saying has to be correct. It's all opinion, it's just very, very weird how vehement you're being about yours.

Also, even if you were correct, it wouldn't make any difference, as BrianDavion points out above me.

**Onething123456**

None of those are amplification technology. And context. The Cacodominus was already physically dead. Physical screams, yes. But not psychic/spiritual. Its all but confirmed with the Cacodominus' and I quote "formidable psychic presence". Besides, Daemons can cause beings from light years to go insane. Other psykers have done similar things on a smaller. Alpha psykers have mind controlled planets. And I was amused by DarknessEternal having the guts to talk about slave coding controlling the Legions when such a thing does not exist.

**Andykp**

Darkness eternal was theorising an idea, you don’t seem able to see what other people are saying. U don’t know how psychic screams or amplifying tech would work because they aren’t real. They are made up. So who ever makes them up decides how they work. Why do you come on here starting these discussions if you aren’t prepared to listen to their people’s opinions and ideas. Is it just trolling?

**Onething123456**

Andykp wrote:
Darkness eternal was theorising an idea, you don’t seem able to see what other people are saying. U don’t know how psychic screams or amplifying tech would work because they aren’t real. They are made up. So who ever makes them up decides how they work. Why do you come on here starting these discussions if you aren’t prepared to listen to their people’s opinions and ideas. Is it just trolling?

No trolling.

I got the vibe that DarknessEternal said it was fact, because that's how he wrote it.

I wanted to see what people would think of those Godlike feats. I expected them to say that they are high end feats and not always happening.

**Slipspace**

Onething123456 wrote:
Andykp wrote:
Darkness eternal was theorising an idea, you don’t seem able to see what other people are saying. U don’t know how psychic screams or amplifying tech would work because they aren’t real. They are made up. So who ever makes them up decides how they work. Why do you come on here starting these discussions if you aren’t prepared to listen to their people’s opinions and ideas. Is it just trolling?

No trolling.

I got the vibe that DarknessEternal said it was fact, because that's how he wrote it.

I wanted to see what people would think of those Godlike feats. I expected them to say that they are high end feats and not always happening.

DarknessEternal hasn't commented in this thread, so I have no idea why you're even mentioning him. The only one stating anything as fact in this thread is you, about a fictional technology that may or may not enhance a fictional ability of a fictional alien being. You understand how bizarre that is, right? You quote "formidable psychic presence" a few times as if it has any bearing on the discussion. I'm not sure why you think it does. In fact, this seems to be a major problem with how you "discuss" things. You provide a bunch of quotes, without any context or actuall points to discuss, and expect people to somehow understand what you're trying ot say. You can't just provide a quote, like the one about the psychic presence and draw any conclusion you want from it without explaining how you're drawing that conclusion. Doing so isn't conducive to discussion.

As for the original purpose of this thread, the same thing applies. Let's say someone had responded to your initial quote dump by saying "these are high end feats and not always happening". How does that lead to discussion? You provide no context or new ideas to discuss in your original post so how do you expect people to discuss any of it int he first place?

**Formosa**

BrianDavion wrote:
A psykic death scream doesn't happen AFTER it dies, it happesn AS it dies.

Not arguing here just curious, would there be a ripple effect through the warp do you think? So the epicentre happens as it dies and then spreads out until it loses energy and dissipates, if that’s even possible in the warp.

**Andykp**

Formosa wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
A psykic death scream doesn't happen AFTER it dies, it happesn AS it dies.

Not arguing here just curious, would there be a ripple effect through the warp do you think? So the epicentre happens as it dies and then spreads out until it loses energy and dissipates, if that’s even possible in the warp.

That’s how I see it.

**BrianDavion**

Formosa wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
A psykic death scream doesn't happen AFTER it dies, it happesn AS it dies.

Not arguing here just curious, would there be a ripple effect through the warp do you think? So the epicentre happens as it dies and then spreads out until it loses energy and dissipates, if that’s even possible in the warp.

could be, the warp is a bit of an oddity, the strange effects on travel speed of ships is well known, does this apply to astropathic messages?

**Andykp**

I think I’ve heard them described as psychic shock waves. Which sound like that but it could be from Star Wars?

**Formosa**

Hmmm ok bare with me here as this is a complicated concept

So some big event happens and has an effect on the warp, we know the warp must have some kind of gravity parallel (but not gravity) as otherwise vortices would not form and eventually make the gods, Deamons and warp storms etc.

With this in mind take the death of a world/city/lots of people and it creates a warp shockwave with its ripples spreading out eventually forming warp storms and at its epicentre the focus of this shockwave, a new Deamon.

This lines up with how we know some Deamons were formed.

Ref: talon of Horus, primarchs Magnus the red and of course .... slaanesh.

**Andykp**

From the descriptions of the warp from the earlier sources which I like describe it in such a way that the laws of physics don’t apply. It has an ebb and flow but time and space are not applicable to it. This to me means that gravity and stuff can’t be applied but whatever it is made of can definitely be affected by the real space psychic events as you say.

I like the old texts because they try to describe how in indescribable it is and get it right better than recent stuff. It’s become a bit “other dimension” in more recent books. Andy chambers does a good job of it in the dark eldar books describing how weird stuff gets just getting near it.

**locarno24**

BrianDavion wrote:
Formosa wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
A psykic death scream doesn't happen AFTER it dies, it happesn AS it dies.

Not arguing here just curious, would there be a ripple effect through the warp do you think? So the epicentre happens as it dies and then spreads out until it loses energy and dissipates, if that’s even possible in the warp.

could be, the warp is a bit of an oddity, the strange effects on travel speed of ships is well known, does this apply to astropathic messages?

Based on the rogue trader RPG, potentially but not always - an astropathic message can either take the form of a missive 'sent' to a specific destination or just 'yelled' omnidirectionally (generally when it'ss some variation on 'Help!'...).

The latter does indeed broadly spread out like a 360' ripple, give or take local warp disruption. based on the RPG rules, they're achievable over the same 'range' as a focused message by a psyker of the same power level, but are proportionately more draining to send and less likely to be received by any specific listener, such that a roll which produced a 'clear and comperhensible' focused transmission would produce a 'garbled' broadcast which would be heard but need analysis to figure out what it said.

Also to note - sending a message at all segmentum-wide takes a psy rating of ~ 18, which represents a choir of multiple astropaths working together

**Haighus**

locarno24 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Formosa wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
A psykic death scream doesn't happen AFTER it dies, it happesn AS it dies.

Not arguing here just curious, would there be a ripple effect through the warp do you think? So the epicentre happens as it dies and then spreads out until it loses energy and dissipates, if that’s even possible in the warp.

could be, the warp is a bit of an oddity, the strange effects on travel speed of ships is well known, does this apply to astropathic messages?

Based on the rogue trader RPG, potentially but not always - an astropathic message can either take the form of a missive 'sent' to a specific destination or just 'yelled' omnidirectionally (generally when it'ss some variation on 'Help!'...).

The latter does indeed broadly spread out like a 360' ripple, give or take local warp disruption. based on the RPG rules, they're achievable over the same 'range' as a focused message by a psyker of the same power level, but are proportionately more draining to send and less likely to be received by any specific listener, such that a roll which produced a 'clear and comperhensible' focused transmission would produce a 'garbled' broadcast which would be heard but need analysis to figure out what it said.

Also to note - sending a message at all segmentum-wide takes a psy rating of ~ 18, which represents a choir of multiple astropaths working together

Or, presumably, a single, unusually talented astropath, of the like potentially employed by Inquisitors, Astartes, and capital ships.