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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm not insulting the people using it. I'm insulting the people defending it as a legit system to create armies with.

And why isn't it legit? Is legit objective, or subjective?

Because objectively, it IS legit. It's support by GW officially. Therefore, it's legitimate.

Ohhh, you don't mean legitimate objectively, do you? You mean "I think it's worthless, therefore, it's illegitimate", don't you? Which is subjective.

So, your subjective thought that PL is illegitimate means it's okay to insult people? As in, you're admitting to insulting people on a site which asks for you NOT to do that?

Good to know.

 Jidmah wrote:
I'd also like to point out that peregrine has confirmed that he is not playing 8th at all, so he isn't really qualified to pass judgement on anything related to that edition.

This is a lie. I have played 8th edition. Not much, because the games I played confirmed all of my initial impressions that 8th edition sucks, but I have played it. And it's not like PL depends on some complex or subtle detail about 8th, it's a terrible system no matter what game it is applied to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
And why isn't it legit? Is legit objective, or subjective?

Because it fails to do the job of a point system, and is worse than the alternative point system that GW provides. Unless you have the math skills of a small child and can't add up conventional points there is no reason to ever use PL.

Because objectively, it IS legit. It's support by GW officially. Therefore, it's legitimate.

Open play is also officially supported by GW, but that doesn't mean that open play should be acknowledged as a legitimate game format. Or, really, anything other than the delusional ravings of someone who should be fired from GW for incompetence.

Ugh, don't me started on Open Play either.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm not insulting the people using it. I'm insulting the people defending it as a legit system to create armies with.

And why isn't it legit? Is legit objective, or subjective?

Because objectively, it IS legit. It's support by GW officially. Therefore, it's legitimate.

Ohhh, you don't mean legitimate objectively, do you? You mean "I think it's worthless, therefore, it's illegitimate", don't you? Which is subjective.

So, your subjective thought that PL is illegitimate means it's okay to insult people? As in, you're admitting to insulting people on a site which asks for you NOT to do that?

Good to know.

Technicly you can drink gasolin, it does not make gasolin a drink in the slightest.
And GW does many things. They think open is a thing, games are social contracts and the GK codex is an actuall real GW product they expect people to use in their games.

Peregrine wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I'd also like to point out that peregrine has confirmed that he is not playing 8th at all, so he isn't really qualified to pass judgement on anything related to that edition.

This is a lie. I have played 8th edition. Not much, because the games I played confirmed all of my initial impressions that 8th edition sucks, but I have played it. And it's not like PL depends on some complex or subtle detail about 8th, it's a terrible system no matter what game it is applied to.

So why are you so dead set on points being the One True Way to play 40k when you admit that they're broken too?

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
And why isn't it legit? Is legit objective, or subjective?

Because it fails to do the job of a point system, and is worse than the alternative point system that GW provides. Unless you have the math skills of a small child and can't add up conventional points there is no reason to ever use PL.

How is it worse? What is the role of a points system, essentially?

As I see it, the role of it is to create a framework for two armies, of varying strengths and sizes, to fight against eachother as part of the game. Points systems don't REQUIRE them to be balanced. A lot of people expect them to be, but that is a personal preference. It is a way of giving an estimation of the power of a unit in 40k, but that estimation could be more or less granular.

You think the only points systems worth having are the most refined and balanced? That's fair for you. I'm not going to say you're wrong.
At the same time, I really don't ask for a points system to be as balanced as you call for, and I don't require that in what I want in a points system.

It fails as a points system for you. It succeeds for me. So, we come back to you asserting your opinion as the One True Fact, which it's not.

And again, insulting people, not the issue. Reporting.

Because objectively, it IS legit. It's support by GW officially. Therefore, it's legitimate.

Open play is also officially supported by GW, but that doesn't mean that open play should be acknowledged as a legitimate game format. Or, really, anything other than the delusional ravings of someone who should be fired from GW for incompetence.

Sorry pal, but like it or lump it, GW wrote that, and they've stuck with it so far.

GW say it's legit. They own the IP and the game. It's legit. This is a situation where subjectivity really doesn't get to play a part. You can say it's invalid all you like, but the official rules will still be there to prove that wrong. Objectively, PL and Open Play are just as valid as Matched Play and points.

Don't care if you hate it, or think it's bonkers - it's valid as per the game itself. Sorry bud.
.

Karol wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm not insulting the people using it. I'm insulting the people defending it as a legit system to create armies with.

And why isn't it legit? Is legit objective, or subjective?

Because objectively, it IS legit. It's support by GW officially. Therefore, it's legitimate.

Ohhh, you don't mean legitimate objectively, do you? You mean "I think it's worthless, therefore, it's illegitimate", don't you? Which is subjective.

So, your subjective thought that PL is illegitimate means it's okay to insult people? As in, you're admitting to insulting people on a site which asks for you NOT to do that?

Good to know.

Technicly you can drink gasolin, it does not make gasolin a drink in the slightest.

Agreed. A drink is defined as a liquid intended for human (or other animal respectively) consumption.

Points and Power Level are both game systems intended for the game of 40k.
GW wrote the game. I think they have more authority on the issue than all of us combined.

And GW does many things. They think open is a thing, games are social contracts and the GK codex is an actuall real GW product they expect people to use in their games.

What they intend to be part of the game is part of the game, like it or not. Sorry, but that's not subjective. They wrote the game, they own the IP, they made the rules. If they advertise something as being for or part of that game, it is for that game.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:People are mad that he's telling them the PL system is bad. Because it IS bad. Granularity creates more balance than relying on players to make balance. The latter can still be done with points anyway.

Plus it isn't hard to make a list for a pickup game on the fly.

Nobody is mad about that, they don't like the toxic interactions, hence why the criticism is almost entirely directed towards the guy who came in declaring that everyone who likes PL, is actually just virtue signalling and has a superiority complex over everyone else.

You know this as well as everybody else does, you're just playing dumb because he's supporting your perspective this time. Trying to make this strawman that people are just mad about him saying PL is bad, is not going to work - again I'm one of the people agreeing with that statement so why would I be mad about it? What people don't like is quite clearly that he laces his pseudo-intellectual rants with as much needless hostility and insults as he can squeeze into a post while still treading the line.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm insulting the people

See, there is your mistake.

 SHUPPET wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:People are mad that he's telling them the PL system is bad. Because it IS bad. Granularity creates more balance than relying on players to make balance. The latter can still be done with points anyway.

Plus it isn't hard to make a list for a pickup game on the fly.

Nobody is mad about that, they don't like the toxic interactions, hence why the criticism is almost entirely directed towards the guy who came in declaring that everyone who likes PL, is actually just virtue signalling and has a superiority complex over everyone else.

You know this as well as everybody else does, you're just playing dumb because he's supporting your perspective this time. Trying to make this strawman that people are just mad about him saying PL is bad, is not going to work - again I'm one of the people agreeing with that statement so why would I be mad about it? What people don't like is quite clearly that he laces his pseudo-intellectual rants with as much needless hostility and insults as he can squeeze into a post while still treading the line.

I actually agree with Peregrine on a few of the issues, and I like the blunt nature of the posts even when I fully disagree with him. So yeah I support him posting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm insulting the people

See, there is your mistake.

If someone has a bad belief or problem, they are to be notified that they do and why. Simple as that.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I actually agree with Peregrine on a few of the issues, and I like the blunt nature of the posts even when I fully disagree with him. So yeah I support him posting.

You support him bullying people because you like with how blunt it is?

Jesus Christ.

 Jidmah wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm insulting the people

See, there is your mistake.

If someone has a bad belief or problem, they are to be notified that they do and why. Simple as that.

And what says it's bad beyond your opinion?! It's an opinion dude, it's not BAD because you don't agree with it, it's just different.

If you were "notifying" someone because they had a belief or problem that actively affected you or someone else, and that belief or problem was in active detriment to them, I could understand. But when the person's belief or "problem" has literally NO impact on you at all, how on sweet earth is that BAD objectively?!

Reported for Rule 1. I can't believe it has to be asked that you should respect other people's personal feelings on a subject that literally affects no-one else.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:People are mad that he's telling them the PL system is bad. Because it IS bad. Granularity creates more balance than relying on players to make balance. The latter can still be done with points anyway.

Plus it isn't hard to make a list for a pickup game on the fly.

Nobody is mad about that, they don't like the toxic interactions, hence why the criticism is almost entirely directed towards the guy who came in declaring that everyone who likes PL, is actually just virtue signalling and has a superiority complex over everyone else.

You know this as well as everybody else does, you're just playing dumb because he's supporting your perspective this time. Trying to make this strawman that people are just mad about him saying PL is bad, is not going to work - again I'm one of the people agreeing with that statement so why would I be mad about it? What people don't like is quite clearly that he laces his pseudo-intellectual rants with as much needless hostility and insults as he can squeeze into a post while still treading the line.

I actually agree with Peregrine on a few of the issues, and I like the blunt nature of the posts even when I fully disagree with him. So yeah I support him posting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm insulting the people

See, there is your mistake.

If someone has a bad belief or problem, they are to be notified that they do and why. Simple as that.

So you support his toxic attitude it when it agrees with you, that's it's own set of problems, but fine, just don't try to act as though everyone else is just mad that he disagrees with them lol. You're being beyond disingenuous, but being that you are doing the same thing he does except on a lesser scale it shouldn't surprise anybody. Reported for rule 1. Come back with a better attitude please.

Locking while I look into this...