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2018/10/29 22:57:53
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
Martel732 wrote: IH marines should be t4 5+++. They are damn cyborgs. DG should not have a monopoly on 5+++
Hrm, most of them have no more than a mechanical hand that is ritually grafted, especially the basic battle brothers. They're hardly an entire chapter of cyborgs. Such are rare gifts bestowed upon the worthy, not handed out like candy.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2018/10/29 22:57:55
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
Arachnofiend wrote: I think it's worth pursuing a world where all the main factions are mechanically distinct and have something that makes them truly unique from any of their competitors. I'm just as dissatisfied with RP as you are, but I would rather it be changed into something new than for Death Guard and Necrons to just be different aesthetic flavors of the exact same variety of hard-to-kill.
Arachnofiend wrote: I think it's worth pursuing a world where all the main factions are mechanically distinct and have something that makes them truly unique from any of their competitors. I'm just as dissatisfied with RP as you are, but I would rather it be changed into something new than for Death Guard and Necrons to just be different aesthetic flavors of the exact same variety of hard-to-kill.
Problem being currently Deathguard are annoyingly resilient to play against. Necrons right now feel like they are made from Victorian tinfoil for the most part.
2018/10/29 23:02:42
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
The issue I see with SM Rhinos is that the Space Marines don't need to ride anywhere, therefore they don't need an APC.
A Razorback is a little tank, but a Rhino is just a box for moving dudes, and it's not like there are dudes that need moving.
At that rate, any cost more than a brick that can capture objectives is "too high" for Space Marines.
However, some other armies have units which very much need to have a car to get where they're going. Sisters Dominions, Acro Flagellants, or Khorne Berzerkers, for example. In this capacity, a Rhino can be very useful at it's cost.
The Rhino is probably fine at cost, there's just no unit to ride in it, if you're Space Marines.
Chimera are pretty bad too, for the same reasons. They're not very good at being a little tank, and the Guard doesn't need to carry people anywhere. We'll either stand there, or Move! Move! Move!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/10/29 23:11:47
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
2018/10/29 23:09:49
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: The issue I see with SM Rhinos is that the Space Marines don't need to ride anywhere, therefore they don't need an APC.
A Razorback is a little tank, but a Rhino is just a box for moving dudes, and it's not like there are dudes that need moving.
At that rate, any cost more than a brick that can capture objectives is "too high" for Space Marines.
However, some other armies have units which very much need to have a car to get where they're going. Sisters Dominions, Acro Flagellants, or Khorne Berzerkers, for example. In this capacity, a Rhino can be very useful at it's cost.
The only thing I can think of in the vanilla codex would be agressors but they are primaris locked so need to wait for the scheduled replusive bus.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/29 23:11:52
2018/10/29 23:16:12
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: The issue I see with SM Rhinos is that the Space Marines don't need to ride anywhere, therefore they don't need an APC.
A Razorback is a little tank, but a Rhino is just a box for moving dudes, and it's not like there are dudes that need moving.
At that rate, any cost more than a brick that can capture objectives is "too high" for Space Marines.
However, some other armies have units which very much need to have a car to get where they're going. Sisters Dominions, Acro Flagellants, or Khorne Berzerkers, for example. In this capacity, a Rhino can be very useful at it's cost.
The only thing I can think of in the vanilla codex would be agressors but they are primaris locked so need to wait for the scheduled replusive bus.
Oh, yeah. Rhino harnesses can't fit a guy who's a foot taller than normal, but the harnesses in a Chimera or Valkyrie can accommodate Ogryn just fine, even though they're sitting across three seats. Further rubbing it in, the Rhino harnesses can accommodate Sisters, who are like a fully 2 feet shorter than Space Marines, without any sort of difficulty.
From a more mechanical perspective, would Primaris being able to ride a Rhino break the game? Probably not.
Martel732 wrote: Marines have nothing worth moving. The rhino itself is passable.
Also, Space Marine units tend to come in small squads which fit nicely in a Razorback. And the Razorback is also a small tank, so if you don't need ten transport slots, you don't really need a Rhino. The Rhino serves a very niche transport role for the Space Marines, and it's a niche that doesn't need filling, because I can't think of any Space Marine unit that A: needs to be moved by transport and B: does not fit in a Razorback and C: fits in a Rhino.
As an addendum, for the units that could benefit from transports, there's a Chapter Strategem that fills almost the same role as putting them in a transport, so it's really unnecessary.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/10/29 23:22:07
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
2018/10/29 23:18:40
Subject: Re:Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
Daedalus81 wrote: Meh. I think rhinos are fine. Two combibolters puts out a healthy number of shots. Drop them 5 or so points to be a little more competitive.
People just need to nut up and commit to them instead of half assing it.
Rhinos will never ever ever ever be under 60 to 65 points, so is 50 points really going to break you?
Love taps like that do not make unplayable units playable.
Good thing it's totally playable.
It's not like spending an extra 80 points to shoot an autocannon out of a rhino makes it amazing.
2018/10/29 23:22:51
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
Primaris Marines not being able to ride rhinos or other oldmarine transports is probably the most blatant marketing decision we've seen in 8th. The only justification for it is that they want to sell you the new transport.
2018/10/29 23:25:47
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
Arachnofiend wrote: Primaris Marines not being able to ride rhinos or other oldmarine transports is probably the most blatant marketing decision we've seen in 8th. The only justification for it is that they want to sell you the new transport.
If that were true wouldn't it make it even MORE useful to let regular marines ride in the Repulsor, too?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/29 23:26:35
2018/10/29 23:29:42
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
Arachnofiend wrote: Primaris Marines not being able to ride rhinos or other oldmarine transports is probably the most blatant marketing decision we've seen in 8th. The only justification for it is that they want to sell you the new transport.
If that were true wouldn't it make it even MORE useful to let regular marines ride in the Repulsor, too?
Yes, but that would also require me to want to actually use a Repulsor as a transport anyway. It's way too costly to be shuttling anything around the field.
Though, to its credit, it flies, which makes it better than a Land Raider at doing the whole heavy assault transport thing since going in the direction of the enemy isn't also detrimental to it's function as a 400 point tank with 4 Lascannons.
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
2018/10/29 23:53:36
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
Arachnofiend wrote: Primaris Marines not being able to ride rhinos or other oldmarine transports is probably the most blatant marketing decision we've seen in 8th. The only justification for it is that they want to sell you the new transport.
It would make more sense if there were a new dedicated transport. Repulsors aren't something I would want to run headfirst into enemy lines with.
2018/10/30 00:32:32
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
Only a matter of time until they release a Primaris Rhino equivalent
"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.
To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle
5300 | 2800 | 3600 | 1600 |
2018/10/30 00:36:18
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
NurglesR0T wrote: Only a matter of time until they release a Primaris Rhino equivalent
Repulsor IS the rhino.
What we don't have is the MBT.
It's more of a Bradley.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/30 00:39:19
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
2018/10/30 01:09:23
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
Amishprn86 wrote: It acts as a FnP now just later in the round, its clunky, annoying, and not working. Give it a FnP rule, keep them same cost, they are more costly b.c of the FnP rule, they are freaking 12ppm troops lol
It is working though. It just needs to be at the end of the movement phase so you have a chance to get your buffs in position, and for a way to bring back dead squads. If Orks can do it, then why not necrons? That's kind of their thing. Its no more clunky or annoying than FNP.
RP isn't even what's wrong with necrons. Their offensive output is lacking compared to most other factions, which means any advantage they get from RP is undermined.
Arachnofiend wrote: I think it's worth pursuing a world where all the main factions are mechanically distinct and have something that makes them truly unique from any of their competitors. I'm just as dissatisfied with RP as you are, but I would rather it be changed into something new than for Death Guard and Necrons to just be different aesthetic flavors of the exact same variety of hard-to-kill.
We dont need unique rules to feel unique
You kind of do though? I mean, that's why its called a "unique" rule.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/10/30 01:16:05
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2018/10/30 01:10:41
Subject: Re:Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
Rhinos would go up in value if Marines had a decent assault unit. I think if they fixed Assault Marines (as in, gave them a points drop AND a better statline, even just an extra attack would help), they are one unit that would benefit from a Rhino.
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/7/24, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Imperial Knights: ~2300 | Leagues of Votann: ~1300 | Tyranids: ~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000 | Kruleboyz: ~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: ~700
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2024: 40 | Total models painted in 2025: 23 | Current main painting project: Tomb Kings
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You need your bumps felt. With a patented, Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000.
The Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000. It only looks like several bricks crudely gaffer taped to a cricket bat.
Grotsnik Corp. Sorry, No Refunds.
2018/10/30 01:17:22
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
I would not expect much. I am going to speculate by not speculating my speculation.
In all honesty I am just probably going to say "Knights Will Remain Broken, Deathguard will meet hammer, Grey Knights will be ignored, Sisters will break the meta, and gak all for Space Marines."
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2018/10/30 02:52:02
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
NurglesR0T wrote: Only a matter of time until they release a Primaris Rhino equivalent
Repulsor IS the rhino.
What we don't have is the MBT.
Repulsor is the Land Raider. A gunboat that's confused trying to be a transport. The issue that Land Raiders have had since it's inception.
"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.
To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle
5300 | 2800 | 3600 | 1600 |
2018/10/30 02:55:10
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
NurglesR0T wrote: Only a matter of time until they release a Primaris Rhino equivalent
Repulsor IS the rhino.
What we don't have is the MBT.
Repulsor is the Land Raider. A gunboat that's confused trying to be a transport. The issue that Land Raiders have had since it's inception.
You would think, but it's a transport option and not HS like a LR. The Primaris shtick is being hilariously upgunned for buckets of points. Fear the MBT, because I'm fairly certain it will be a thing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/30 04:14:25
2018/10/30 04:19:29
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
NurglesR0T wrote: Only a matter of time until they release a Primaris Rhino equivalent
Repulsor IS the rhino.
What we don't have is the MBT.
Repulsor is the Land Raider. A gunboat that's confused trying to be a transport. The issue that Land Raiders have had since it's inception.
You would think, but it's a transport option and not HS like a LR. The Primaris shtick is being hilariously upgunned for buckets of points. Fear the MBT, because I'm fairly certain it will be a thing.
This seems like semantics. Repulsor is a tank and plays like a tank, a bigger tank possibly coming out sometime in the uncertain future does not change that.
2018/10/30 04:56:45
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
Amishprn86 wrote: It acts as a FnP now just later in the round, its clunky, annoying, and not working. Give it a FnP rule, keep them same cost, they are more costly b.c of the FnP rule, they are freaking 12ppm troops lol
It does not work like fnp later. Rp can be negated completely making rule scale badly. Good in sub-1k, bad in 2k, lol at bigger
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/10/30 07:01:45
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
Amishprn86 wrote: It acts as a FnP now just later in the round, its clunky, annoying, and not working. Give it a FnP rule, keep them same cost, they are more costly b.c of the FnP rule, they are freaking 12ppm troops lol
It does not work like fnp later. Rp can be negated completely making rule scale badly. Good in sub-1k, bad in 2k, lol at bigger
And is not negated by multidamage weapons, so no it definitely is a different kind of beast compared to FnP.
RP isn't even actually a bad rule, it just suffers from the game having too much shooting power. Shooting allows you to focus down a single unit, assault has many more problems with it.
2018/10/30 07:20:26
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
Amishprn86 wrote: It acts as a FnP now just later in the round, its clunky, annoying, and not working. Give it a FnP rule, keep them same cost, they are more costly b.c of the FnP rule, they are freaking 12ppm troops lol
It does not work like fnp later. Rp can be negated completely making rule scale badly. Good in sub-1k, bad in 2k, lol at bigger
And is not negated by multidamage weapons, so no it definitely is a different kind of beast compared to FnP.
RP isn't even actually a bad rule, it just suffers from the game having too much shooting power. Shooting allows you to focus down a single unit, assault has many more problems with it.
Yes it's different. But as it is worse. In 2k effect is neglible.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/10/30 09:12:08
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
Honestly at this point they could/should just go back to making it like "We'll Be Back" and have it always work, even if the unit is wiped. Except maybe without the whole "joining other units" part and just having the whole unit be rezzed roughly where it died.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/30 09:15:02
2018/10/30 09:41:55
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Honestly at this point they could/should just go back to making it like "We'll Be Back" and have it always work, even if the unit is wiped.
Except maybe without the whole "joining other units" part and just having the whole unit be rezzed roughly where it died.
We'll be Back didn't allow wiped squads to return.
In order to do that, you need a spyder which had a rule that allowed that. Wiped squads coming back was not an innate property of WBB.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2018/10/30 10:06:48
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Honestly at this point they could/should just go back to making it like "We'll Be Back" and have it always work, even if the unit is wiped.
Except maybe without the whole "joining other units" part and just having the whole unit be rezzed roughly where it died.
We'll be Back didn't allow wiped squads to return.
In order to do that, you need a spyder which had a rule that allowed that. Wiped squads coming back was not an innate property of WBB.
I could have sworn it allowed wiped squads to return if the same squad type was within 6" of where they died?
2018/10/30 10:17:17
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Honestly at this point they could/should just go back to making it like "We'll Be Back" and have it always work, even if the unit is wiped. Except maybe without the whole "joining other units" part and just having the whole unit be rezzed roughly where it died.
We'll be Back didn't allow wiped squads to return. In order to do that, you need a spyder which had a rule that allowed that. Wiped squads coming back was not an innate property of WBB.
I could have sworn it allowed wiped squads to return if the same squad type was within 6" of where they died?
I just double checked, you are right. Tomb Spyders increase the range to 12". Which means I was playing 3rd ed necrons wrong Yeah, bring back that part of the rule would be useful.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/10/30 10:30:54
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
5300 | 
2800 | 
3600 | 
1600 | 
~1660
~16000 Astra Militarum: 
~1200 | Imperial Knights: 
~2300 | Leagues of Votann: 
~1300 | Tyranids: 
~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: 
~5000 | Kruleboyz: 
~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: 
~700
