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Tyel wrote:

Sorry but its rubbish.
GW make their whole "oh, sorry, yes, we want AOS to be a thing, here are points because they are clearly required" in 2016. There is no way - except in some very early stage - that 8th edition 40k was conceived without them.

Then again, AOS points are basically like 40K power levels, they don't take into account upgrades. So I guess it is possible that they though that the power levels would be a sufficient point system. But probably not.

 Crimson wrote:

Tyel wrote:

Sorry but its rubbish.
GW make their whole "oh, sorry, yes, we want AOS to be a thing, here are points because they are clearly required" in 2016. There is no way - except in some very early stage - that 8th edition 40k was conceived without them.

Then again, AOS points are basically like 40K power levels, they don't take into account upgrades. So I guess it is possible that they though that the power levels would be a sufficient point system. But probably not.

It's more like AOS points assume you took the upgrades.

Its been a fact forever - and its destroyed several editions of the game - that GW don't care about points. They could employ say 10 people to play test and price, but they don't. Unless they have started.

Tyel wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
There is 1 thing that makes his story credible Shuppet. The points in this game are a complete gak fest.

Sorry but its rubbish.
GW make their whole "oh, sorry, yes, we want AOS to be a thing, here are points because they are clearly required" in 2016. There is no way - except in some very early stage - that 8th edition 40k was conceived without them.
GW have got points wrong for decades and will no doubt continue to do so.

At what point do you think 40k 8th eddition index was being worked on? THINK ABOUT IT. There are no points on the data sheets. Everyone is like...Man - this sucks that I have to turn to the back of the book to figure out points. They make up some trash story that it's just so they can update the points easier...REALLY? If you make a point change how does it change that fact that the points are going to be wrong in my hard copy no matter where they are. Pretty sure they were just going to use power level until very late in the 8ths development. It all makes sense now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tyel wrote:
Its been a fact forever - and its destroyed several editions of the game - that GW don't care about points. They could employ say 10 people to play test and price, but they don't. Unless they have started.

They don't - it's a load of hogwash. We are play testing the game for them right now.

and some actual news:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/02/2nd-nov-the-blood-glory-studio-preview-roundup-extravaganzagw-homepage-post-1/

If the whole purpose of having the point cost sheets separate from the data sheets was to make updating them easier (which is not a bad idea, though it does make giving equipment different costs based on who carries it, but whatever)... and we are told this is why it was done...

why when the points are updated do they not simply update the lot, in effect make it part of the reason to buy Chapter Approved, it is the place to issue the points for next year, for everything thats got a point cost at the time CA is issued for any faction where any value changes

 Mr Morden wrote:
and some actual news:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/02/2nd-nov-the-blood-glory-studio-preview-roundup-extravaganzagw-homepage-post-1/

So cheaper than assualt squads still have the same stats

Ice_can wrote:
So cheaper than assualt squads still have the same stats

I suspect the number of players running assault or deepstrike seraphim will be approaching zero unless they have new wargear options but it'll be interesting to see sisters that don't roll over quite as readily to the counter-charge.

Ice_can wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
and some actual news:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/02/2nd-nov-the-blood-glory-studio-preview-roundup-extravaganzagw-homepage-post-1/

So cheaper than assualt squads still have the same stats

Well WS 4+ for the most part as well. Oh and T3.

Ice_can wrote:
So cheaper than assualt squads still have the same stats

On the first round of combat. If you really want to complain you should note that this is direct power creep over the World Eaters legion trait.

Sweet man. +1 str to all girls so they are as strong as a space marine. MY MY MY.

Not that this is OP or anything - it's just....Why must space marines be so weak?

 Xenomancers wrote:
Sweet man. +1 str to all girls so they are as strong as a space marine. MY MY MY.

Not that this is OP or anything - it's just....Why must space marines be so weak?

Well Catachans are as well and they are not wearing Power Armour

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Sweet man. +1 str to all girls so they are as strong as a space marine. MY MY MY.

Not that this is OP or anything - it's just....Why must space marines be so weak?

Well Catachans are as well and they are not wearing Power Armour

Yeah, at least this is only first turn. It is a new version of Furious Charge.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Sweet man. +1 str to all girls so they are as strong as a space marine. MY MY MY.

Not that this is OP or anything - it's just....Why must space marines be so weak?

Well Catachans are as well and they are not wearing Power Armour

Yeah - it's pretty much nonsense on a catachan too.

I always wondered - how strong would a catachan be if they made him into an astartes?

Guess what? World Eaters only get an extra attack! IF they charge!

 Mr Morden wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
and some actual news:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/02/2nd-nov-the-blood-glory-studio-preview-roundup-extravaganzagw-homepage-post-1/

So cheaper than assualt squads still have the same stats

Well WS 4+ for the most part as well. Oh and T3.

I hoped the winks would get across it was ment in jest.
But Astra Millicheese have proven that T3 doesn't matter in 8th edition it's all about being Cheapest.
Sisters players just need to hope sisters don't break the single digits in points costs.

Its pure codex creep.

Obviously points could change - but sorry but 2 S4 attacks when a Marine gets 1 for considerably more points is laughable.

Making sisters have the same melee as Shoota Boyz feels a bit bad too.

Yeah. Feels like Codex creep.

It is a solid rule for sure, but Sisters really don't traditionally have much melee options. They're short to medium ranged shooty army. So you might want to pick a trait that supports that.

 Crimson wrote:
It is a solid rule for sure, but Sisters really don't traditionally have much melee options. They're short to medium ranged shooty army. So you might want to pick a trait that supports that.

One could make the argument that they're giving the melee Sisters faction an unusually powerful trait to compensate for the fact that if it was "normal" it'd be worthless. I kinda thought they would do this with the Farsight Enclaves trait since you'd have to have some really sweet bonuses to convince Tau players to get up in their opponent's face but obviously that didn't happen.

The more likely answer is that time has shown that the World Eaters legion trait sucks and there's no reason to copy and paste a bad trait.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
It is a solid rule for sure, but Sisters really don't traditionally have much melee options. They're short to medium ranged shooty army. So you might want to pick a trait that supports that.

One could make the argument that they're giving the melee Sisters faction an unusually powerful trait to compensate for the fact that if it was "normal" it'd be worthless. I kinda thought they would do this with the Farsight Enclaves trait since you'd have to have some really sweet bonuses to convince Tau players to get up in their opponent's face but obviously that didn't happen.

The more likely answer is that time has shown that the World Eaters legion trait sucks and there's no reason to copy and paste a bad trait.

The Farsight bonus is/was actually pretty good.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
It is a solid rule for sure, but Sisters really don't traditionally have much melee options. They're short to medium ranged shooty army. So you might want to pick a trait that supports that.

One could make the argument that they're giving the melee Sisters faction an unusually powerful trait to compensate for the fact that if it was "normal" it'd be worthless. I kinda thought they would do this with the Farsight Enclaves trait since you'd have to have some really sweet bonuses to convince Tau players to get up in their opponent's face but obviously that didn't happen.

The more likely answer is that time has shown that the World Eaters legion trait sucks and there's no reason to copy and paste a bad trait.

The Farsight bonus is/was actually pretty good.

It think his point was more that for the "Close Combat Tau subfaction" yeah that sounds wierd to me too their bonuses dont actually make them any better at CC that anyone else in the Tsu empire.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
It is a solid rule for sure, but Sisters really don't traditionally have much melee options. They're short to medium ranged shooty army. So you might want to pick a trait that supports that.

One could make the argument that they're giving the melee Sisters faction an unusually powerful trait to compensate for the fact that if it was "normal" it'd be worthless.

Yeah, I assume that this exactly is the logic. Makes sense to me.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
It is a solid rule for sure, but Sisters really don't traditionally have much melee options. They're short to medium ranged shooty army. So you might want to pick a trait that supports that.

One could make the argument that they're giving the melee Sisters faction an unusually powerful trait to compensate for the fact that if it was "normal" it'd be worthless. I kinda thought they would do this with the Farsight Enclaves trait since you'd have to have some really sweet bonuses to convince Tau players to get up in their opponent's face but obviously that didn't happen.

The more likely answer is that time has shown that the World Eaters legion trait sucks and there's no reason to copy and paste a bad trait.

The Farsight bonus is/was actually pretty good.

It's solid in a vacuum, and for a lot of factions it would actually be pretty amazing, but for the marquee "stand way back and don't let them get close" faction it needs to be way better than it is to actually convince people to run the opposite style. For clarification I don't think it should have been a specifically CC trait, my original proposal was "add one to hit rolls for all attacks made within 6 inches of the target" which would benefit both shooting and assault.

Maybe the suits were ment to be good at melee at some point. If they cost less and had the option to either use their weapons as pistols when they are farsight enclave or get a nice AP on their robot fists, and an extra A, they could be ok at melee. Not s spears level, but they sure could beat up some marines.

Actually with rules for The Eight Farsight Enclaves can become easely the best Tau faction... maybe... I don't know. A ton of special character heavy suits sound pretty powerfull.

ERJAK wrote:

ccs wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Voss wrote:

Maybe next year, once the final few are out and done.

At which point they are too busy with redoing codexes completely invalidating current good builds into trash and making new ones to ensure new models are bought not fixing problems but just changing them

Congrats, you now understand the GW way.

This is a stupid fething thing to be salty about. If you wanna be mad that they're making you shell out 50 bucks for a new book, that's fair. If you're mad because the same 4 units aren't the only thing that sees any play for years at a time, you're being dumb.

I'm not mad. I was congratulating a fellow gamer for recognizing the pattern.
This is just the general way of GW (and the gaming industry in general) They write books & when they get to the end of their cycle they start over. Often emphasizing/de-emphasizing different things each time. Either through the unit entries directly or just with the general rules.

As for # of units used? I don't know what you're on about. I have & will use plenty of options. Good/bad/mediocre/fantastic/near useless... Because I build, paint & play with units based on what I like model-wise 1st, & what's currently effective somewhere a distant 3rd. (My only thing is that I want to have the option to keep using all of them edition after edition after edition.)
It's the rest of you that get hung up on the math that suffer. ":( They've ruined my _______! X should be 2pts less! Y should go up 1pt! The only thing worth taking is ____. etc etc etc "

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
It is a solid rule for sure, but Sisters really don't traditionally have much melee options. They're short to medium ranged shooty army. So you might want to pick a trait that supports that.

One could make the argument that they're giving the melee Sisters faction an unusually powerful trait to compensate for the fact that if it was "normal" it'd be worthless. I kinda thought they would do this with the Farsight Enclaves trait since you'd have to have some really sweet bonuses to convince Tau players to get up in their opponent's face but obviously that didn't happen.

The more likely answer is that time has shown that the World Eaters legion trait sucks and there's no reason to copy and paste a bad trait.

The Farsight bonus is/was actually pretty good.

It's solid in a vacuum, and for a lot of factions it would actually be pretty amazing, but for the marquee "stand way back and don't let them get close" faction it needs to be way better than it is to actually convince people to run the opposite style. For clarification I don't think it should have been a specifically CC trait, my original proposal was "add one to hit rolls for all attacks made within 6 inches of the target" which would benefit both shooting and assault.

Between Stealth Suits, Tigershark & Coldstars, it was one of the strongest traits available. With the nerf of the Tigershark it may not be worth a detachment anymore though who knows. It still works very well for some great units.

Sorry did I miss some chapter approved buff somewhere?
How is rerolling wound rolls of 1 for shooting in 6" remotely useful?

Tyel wrote:
Sorry did I miss some chapter approved buff somewhere?
How is rerolling wound rolls of 1 for shooting in 6" remotely useful?

Coldstars, Stealth Suits, Tigersharks. All can/could grab this buff first turn before they can be shot. You can turn half an army into paste, and all have Fly if you need to fallback the next turn.

leopard wrote:
If the whole purpose of having the point cost sheets separate from the data sheets was to make updating them easier (which is not a bad idea, though it does make giving equipment different costs based on who carries it, but whatever)... and we are told this is why it was done...

why when the points are updated do they not simply update the lot, in effect make it part of the reason to buy Chapter Approved, it is the place to issue the points for next year, for everything thats got a point cost at the time CA is issued for any faction where any value changes

On pain of heresy, stop making sense!