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2018/12/02 03:00:05
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Pious Palatine
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Straight_Memer wrote:ERJAK wrote:SemperMortis wrote:gendoikari87 wrote:Marines are gonna suck even harder because everyone will be taking gobs of high ap
Why take low strength low AP weapons anymore if all the basic troops are getting price increases (Ork boyz to 7ppm). Every tournament list for Orkz I have seen recently has gone from 180-240 Boyz to 60-90 with 90 being rare. So we are getting away from TAC lists and getting more into skew lists across the board and at the moment that means Anti-armor is going to get a priority in place as opposed to high ROF low AP weapons.
I'm sorry, how is 180-240 boyz NOT a skew list? 180-240 is not only a HARDCORE skew list, it is also THE most bullgak army to play against ever. Oh yes, I super love to spend 40 minutes in your first movement phase another 20 in your first shooting phase and another 35 in your first combat phase. Screw horde skew lists, I'd rather go against 10 Castellans.
Show me on this miniture where idex orks touched you
Ork lists don't have enough time to do any touching. By the time they're done with their second movement phase the tournament has been over for a week and everyone declared them the winner out of pity.
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2018/12/02 05:09:36
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
Inside Yvraine
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It does when your dudes are 13ppm.
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2018/12/02 05:57:09
Subject: Re:Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Aspirant Tech-Adept
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I'm starting to expect CA2018 will be released in 2019.
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"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." Jesse "the mind" Ventura. |
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2018/12/02 06:28:39
Subject: Re:Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Stalwart Tribune
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Why? Because GW have had leakers keep a lid on details?
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2018/12/02 10:33:45
Subject: Re:Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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If its up on pre-order next Saturday its perhaps surprising there have not been more leaks.
Hoping for some articles on Warhammer Community this week.
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2018/12/02 12:30:00
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Courageous Beastmaster
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Is it already next saturday?
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2018/12/02 15:02:36
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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2018/12/02 15:51:40
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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ERJAK wrote:SemperMortis wrote:gendoikari87 wrote:Marines are gonna suck even harder because everyone will be taking gobs of high ap
Why take low strength low AP weapons anymore if all the basic troops are getting price increases (Ork boyz to 7ppm). Every tournament list for Orkz I have seen recently has gone from 180-240 Boyz to 60-90 with 90 being rare. So we are getting away from TAC lists and getting more into skew lists across the board and at the moment that means Anti-armor is going to get a priority in place as opposed to high ROF low AP weapons.
I'm sorry, how is 180-240 boyz NOT a skew list? 180-240 is not only a HARDCORE skew list, it is also THE most bullgak army to play against ever. Oh yes, I super love to spend 40 minutes in your first movement phase another 20 in your first shooting phase and another 35 in your first combat phase. Screw horde skew lists, I'd rather go against 10 Castellans.
I guess the point alluded you. Horde armies have been a thing since...forever. Sorry that some dillweed slow played you into this much anger but that isn't how most people played. But getting back to the point, if all basic troops are getting nerfed with point increases than you can expect more expensive stuff with better saves/toughness which means more anti-armor weapons.
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2018/12/02 17:19:30
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Everybody loses a bunch of models, even if they're expensive. That's par for the course. I swear half the issue is people are more precious about their marines than they are about other models, regardless of expense. Genestealers are 12 ppm, but you don't hear Tyranid players crying about them dying.
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2018/12/02 17:31:29
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
Vigo. Spain.
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Maybe because Tyranids have cheaper models and the 11-13ppm isnt his cheaper infantry option.
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Crimson Devil wrote:
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote:Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
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2018/12/02 17:31:52
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Insectum7 wrote:
Everybody loses a bunch of models, even if they're expensive. That's par for the course. I swear half the issue is people are more precious about their marines than they are about other models, regardless of expense. Genestealers are 12 ppm, but you don't hear Tyranid players crying about them dying.
I wouldn't mind if they did anything before dying. I honestly have no problem with marines dying if their Ballistic skill or weaponry meant they could actually do some damage before they bought the farm.
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2018/12/02 17:34:42
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Insectum7 wrote:
Everybody loses a bunch of models, even if they're expensive. That's par for the course. I swear half the issue is people are more precious about their marines than they are about other models, regardless of expense. Genestealers are 12 ppm, but you don't hear Tyranid players crying about them dying.
Diffrence between a tac marine at 13 and a genestealer at 12 is a genestealer has a purpose.
Also it's not really 13 point models it avarages out at 16 or 18 by the time you add special or combi weapons.
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2018/12/02 17:46:14
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Dakka Veteran
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Insectum7 wrote:
Everybody loses a bunch of models, even if they're expensive. That's par for the course. I swear half the issue is people are more precious about their marines than they are about other models, regardless of expense. Genestealers are 12 ppm, but you don't hear Tyranid players crying about them dying.
That’s because Tyranid players know they’re getting a capable unit with a good balance of value vs potential. Marines pay +1 point for a model that will do nothing by comparison. Stealers give a nid player strategic value. Tactical marines give SM players ablative wounds for a heavy weapon.
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2018/12/02 18:13:41
Subject: Re:Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Looks like hard and soft cover is back, but I'm guessing as a +1/+2 rather than invulns. Unless it's city fight only?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/02 18:14:08
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2018/12/02 18:19:53
Subject: Re:Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Mighty Vampire Count
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I wnder how much the expensive version with Sisters data cards is ging to set me back
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I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page
A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction |
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2018/12/02 18:20:43
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel
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I kind of what space marines to be super expensive but also super elite... like their 20pts each but their standard gun is -4 and bypasses invlun saves or something stupid. XD Make them less models that do stupid good damage. Just lore wise it makes no sense how 1 ork is basically the same strength and toughness as a space marine... But at the same time an Ork should be S4 and T4.... But a Marine should be like S7 T7. XD
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/02 18:21:46
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2018/12/02 18:24:21
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Horrific Hive Tyrant
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lolman1c wrote:I kind of what space marines to be super expensive but also super elite... like their 20pts each but their standard gun is -4 and bypasses invlun saves or something stupid. XD Make them less models that do stupid good damage. Just lore wise it makes no sense how 1 ork is basically the same strength and toughness as a space marine... But at the same time an Ork should be S4 and T4.... But a Marine should be like S7 T7. XD
So essentially you want to break the game?
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2018/12/02 18:40:05
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
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lolman1c wrote:I kind of what space marines to be super expensive but also super elite... like their 20pts each but their standard gun is -4 and bypasses invlun saves or something stupid. XD Make them less models that do stupid good damage. Just lore wise it makes no sense how 1 ork is basically the same strength and toughness as a space marine... But at the same time an Ork should be S4 and T4.... But a Marine should be like S7 T7. XD
Just make them rapid fire 2 and 2 attacks and they will be fine.
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2018/12/02 18:43:40
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel
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Stux wrote: lolman1c wrote:I kind of what space marines to be super expensive but also super elite... like their 20pts each but their standard gun is -4 and bypasses invlun saves or something stupid. XD Make them less models that do stupid good damage. Just lore wise it makes no sense how 1 ork is basically the same strength and toughness as a space marine... But at the same time an Ork should be S4 and T4.... But a Marine should be like S7 T7. XD
So essentially you want to break the game?
if you point anything correctly then it doesn't break the game. XD 1 marine could be 2000 points and has a 2+ invlun 50 shots each. XD But seriously, watched a game where every space marine had the stats of a captain and they still got their asses handed to them. XD
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2018/12/02 18:45:51
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Because the Wound stat, unless accompanied with a high inv with re-roll and high T, doesn't meen much. Vs a ton of armies being 1W is better then being 2W, because 1W models don't pay for that extra wound , why both die just as easy.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/02 18:46:03
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. |
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2018/12/02 21:34:25
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Galas wrote:Maybe because Tyranids have cheaper models and the 11-13ppm isnt his cheaper infantry option.
Well the fact that 13 point models are dying would hardly be an issue then. Even in a Tyranid army you can shoot the expensive models instead of the cheap ones.
Banville wrote:
I wouldn't mind if they did anything before dying. I honestly have no problem with marines dying if their Ballistic skill or weaponry meant they could actually do some damage before they bought the farm.
How much damage are we talking about? I think thats an interesting question. What's the threshold of damage potential per unit/squad that you're looking for?
Bremon wrote:
That’s because Tyranid players know they’re getting a capable unit with a good balance of value vs potential. Marines pay +1 point for a model that will do nothing by comparison. Stealers give a nid player strategic value. Tactical marines give SM players ablative wounds for a heavy weapon.
A lot of those Genestealers are ablative.
Ice_can wrote:
Diffrence between a tac marine at 13 and a genestealer at 12 is a genestealer has a purpose.
Also it's not really 13 point models it avarages out at 16 or 18 by the time you add special or combi weapons.
How does a Tac marine not have a purpose? It's not a specialist like the Genestealer, if that's what you mean. Generalist doesn't mean lacking purpose though.
You might mean "not good at any particular task for It's points, compared to other choices in the codex" but that's still not "no purpose".
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2018/12/02 21:51:23
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Horrific Hive Tyrant
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lolman1c wrote: Stux wrote: lolman1c wrote:I kind of what space marines to be super expensive but also super elite... like their 20pts each but their standard gun is -4 and bypasses invlun saves or something stupid. XD Make them less models that do stupid good damage. Just lore wise it makes no sense how 1 ork is basically the same strength and toughness as a space marine... But at the same time an Ork should be S4 and T4.... But a Marine should be like S7 T7. XD
So essentially you want to break the game?
if you point anything correctly then it doesn't break the game. XD 1 marine could be 2000 points and has a 2+ invlun 50 shots each. XD But seriously, watched a game where every space marine had the stats of a captain and they still got their asses handed to them. XD
Ok.. buy your suggestion was specifically to make Marines 20pts with T7 and S7 and make Bolters AP -4, and ignore Invulns.
You can't balance it with points if you've already set the points
All that said, simplest way to run "movie marines" is just as counts-as Custodes.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/02 21:51:59
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2018/12/02 21:55:42
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
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Armor isn't worth what GW charges for it. 13 points, all else equal, should buy a 4++ or so, not a 3+. Hence a 9 point model gets a 4 point surcharge that is just free points for the opponent. All armies have this on some units, but not on base troops.
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2018/12/02 22:05:40
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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JimOnMars wrote:Armor isn't worth what GW charges for it. 13 points, all else equal, should buy a 4++ or so, not a 3+. Hence a 9 point model gets a 4 point surcharge that is just free points for the opponent. All armies have this on some units, but not on base troops.
13 points for a 4++ would make guardsmen even better against marines.
You can get into really weird design spaces with invuln saves.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/02 22:16:23
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2018/12/02 23:10:12
Subject: Re:Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade
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Tyel wrote:
If its up on pre-order next Saturday its perhaps surprising there have not been more leaks.
Hoping for some articles on Warhammer Community this week.
CA2018 confirmed to be released on the 15th.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/02/pre-order-preview-vigilus-defiant-and-chapter-approved/
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"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.
To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle
5300 | 2800 | 3600 | 1600 | |
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2018/12/02 23:11:16
Subject: Re:Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The tac marine statline is dead. It tries to live in an almost non-existent balancing space between a battle sister and an intercessor and fails miserably.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/02 23:12:01
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2018/12/03 03:25:11
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Pious Palatine
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SemperMortis wrote:ERJAK wrote:SemperMortis wrote:gendoikari87 wrote:Marines are gonna suck even harder because everyone will be taking gobs of high ap
Why take low strength low AP weapons anymore if all the basic troops are getting price increases (Ork boyz to 7ppm). Every tournament list for Orkz I have seen recently has gone from 180-240 Boyz to 60-90 with 90 being rare. So we are getting away from TAC lists and getting more into skew lists across the board and at the moment that means Anti-armor is going to get a priority in place as opposed to high ROF low AP weapons. I'm sorry, how is 180-240 boyz NOT a skew list? 180-240 is not only a HARDCORE skew list, it is also THE most bullgak army to play against ever. Oh yes, I super love to spend 40 minutes in your first movement phase another 20 in your first shooting phase and another 35 in your first combat phase. Screw horde skew lists, I'd rather go against 10 Castellans. I guess the point alluded you. Horde armies have been a thing since...forever. Sorry that some dillweed slow played you into this much anger but that isn't how most people played. But getting back to the point, if all basic troops are getting nerfed with point increases than you can expect more expensive stuff with better saves/toughness which means more anti-armor weapons. And I guess my point alluded you, which is weird considering how much more I emphasized it than you did. Horde lists are unhealthy skew lists in the exact same way that every other type of 'spam' list is. They are not in ANY way TAC lists and force armies to skew their responses towards anti-infantry the same way Knight lists push people toward anti-vehicle. Them existing for 'forever' doesn't make them any less awful. The only difference between them and the 'leafblower' lists is that leafblower lists are far kinder. At least those games are over quickly. The 'point' you reiterated in the second comment isn't really even worth addressing, it's just stating something exceptionally obvious. The sky is blue also, if you were curious.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/03 03:26:40
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2018/12/03 03:59:01
Subject: Re:Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Morphing Obliterator
The Void
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w1zard wrote:The tac marine statline is dead. It tries to live in an almost non-existent balancing space between a battle sister and an intercessor and fails miserably.
Yeah, and Intercessors aren't even good
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Always 1 on the crazed roll. |
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2018/12/03 14:06:48
Subject: Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Stux wrote:All that said, simplest way to run "movie marines" is just as counts-as Custodes.
If this CA doesn't drop Marine points far enough that's probably going to be the best use for marines in general until 9th comes out. It will certainly cut down on the volume of models I have to take to the LGS if all my Marines are pretending to be Custodes. I'm still hopeful it won't come to that though.
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2018/12/03 14:15:15
Subject: Re:Chapter Approved 2018, What do we expect?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Drudge Dreadnought wrote:w1zard wrote:The tac marine statline is dead. It tries to live in an almost non-existent balancing space between a battle sister and an intercessor and fails miserably.
Yeah, and Intercessors aren't even good
They need some pro active rule to be ok. If they had exploding somethin on +6 to hit for example, or being able to shot twice if they don't move
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If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. |
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