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I just looked at the ork codex point costs. Stormboyz and boyz price increase? 90+ for all of the new buggies? DakkaJet remains the same point cost? Mekboy workshop can make your unit be potentially worse when using it? Stompa still 900 points?

Its like GamesWorkshop applied the exact same policy they would to a decent/meta codex by just shining it up here and there to make it good. Polishing a turd gives you a polished turd.


EDIT: My original post was poorly written obviously as I did not even get close to what I was trying to say. (things such as the title was hyperbolic and not an actual question, in a sense shameless clickbait, etc) It appears to me literally, zero people got what I was trying to get at all. I have started to not write massive rants for things because no one reads them but this kind of makes me reconsider the ways to interact with other people. :(. Potentially people become so conditioned to interact with certain types of content; combined with my stylistic choices I think I see how it went so awry.

Me trying to clarify:

To start with the title is not serious; I am not actually asking that question nor do I think GW hates Orks. As earlier stated it is very much an exaggeration in place with my intention for it (abysmally) have 2 uses, a parody and to give a vague conception of what the content of the post is(as titles do). IMO the new Ork vehicles are fantastic sculpts and from an artistic position the Ork range truly is a beautiful beast.

I think Orks hold a special place in 40k that far surpasses a generic comedic relief trope. It wouldn't surprise me at all if GW honestly had no idea Orks haven' t been meta contenders in many years simply because the data they constantly look at is sales and Orks need no help in selling themselves. My "whining", like many others who whine about many things, comes from a place of admiration and a desire for something to be better. One of the things I was trying to convey is that in my opinion, Orks are both fantastically fun to play with and against and I want them to little busted from time to time. I do hope that I am completely wrong about the Ork codex as my brother plays orks, hasn't played in years and I want to be able to tell him, "Ya the new ork codex is competetive and a fantastic codex".

To clarify as to why I am not particularly hopeful for the Ork codex, and no I didn't just have eyes on the stompa (everyone knew the chance of it being good was extremely low) has to deal with the nature of the competetive Ork tactics and armies in the past. [Disclaimer, Heavily opinionated, potentially anecdotal] In general solid Ork units throughout multiple editions were not good in the traditional sense of being 'good'. Frequently Nob BIkers where not the most killy deathstars, and Kan Walls with 200 boyz weren't the shootiest or most mobile. To me, the common thread of good ork units was that they were brilliantly garbage, in that what they had going for them is they where the dirt cheapest for whatever kind of general thing you were looking for. Cheapest jinkers with bikes, cheapest bodies that hosed T4 with 5++ vs shooting. Vehicles that where 10/10/10 but hey its the cheapest vehicle you will ever see. Orks would crush you in their garbage pile of whatever bodies (bikes, vehicles, footslog anything really) the had access to at the time. With a bad BS, never having the best close combat abilities, super medium psychic phase, terrible saves, it wouldn't matter. When Orks where good they brought the value...in their point costs. Orks don't need a castellen, or morty or any of that; it doesn't do aything for them. They need discount joes bargain castellen that barely holds itself together but it its 300 point's im fielding 5. I'm not saying this is the way only way orks can be, obviously codex's change tactics and such as time goes on but for various reasons, I will state later I am currently unconvinced. Fast forward to the current codex, having all of this in my mind, when the buggy was smashed with a wrench I took this as a metaphor that GW finally understood what Orks are on the tabletop. They didn't have the resources to compete because so frequently Orks point costs were just somewhat comparable or little overcosted, which makes for a terrible ork; and they collect dust. Upping the point cost of boys and stormboyz, even after charge buffs and solid klan tactics, left me dumbfounded because making something better or just look sweet has never made a good ork unit. It took me by surprise; I was expecting boyz to remain the same and get their klan tactics, with the buggies hovering at 60-90 points, trucks and wagons 10-20 points more decrease then what they had etc and I was expecting this because when I'm told Orks are back, to me, for better or worse, that means that my gorgeous beast of a garbage fire that is orks will again now flood the board in value (of points) again. WHen boyz are the same cost as a fire warrior, why would I ever want an ork when I get better shooting, better force multipliers, better armor, and better in low numbers in fire warrior. I don't feel that orks ever should pay the same as other factions. Their quirk is value and the current price tags are the same as everyone else.

I obviously went out of my way to "whine" about orks this time but I am completely ok with it because I want to champion Orks this time and orks are the only ones who I would do this for. I wouldn't have given a gak or made a post if any of the other armies I play got nerfed to the ground. Tau had their time, whatever put them in the dirt. Same with CSM, Tzeentch deamons etc. Orks are the only faction I would do this for and I will definitely keep telling the world this opinion until Orks are back in business. Yeah, I could look at the bright sides, I will try to do this for everyone else but not Orks. They are far too important for the game and have spent far to long with bad or mono build lists.

The reason I think orks have not necessarily navigated to a different style completely is that largely speaking the codex remained the same as the index, with tweaks here and there. I was expecting a complete overhaul in stat lines abilities and profiles to accommodate orks going forward. Statlines, most point costs, and rules have remained largely consistent of what they were in the index. And the index of the previous codex and so forth.

Which leads me to another thing I don't believe I got across, and what my post was really trying express via garbage means of hyperbole and self-aware parodying of outrage culture (which obviously doesn't exempt me from participating but its the form i choose to use) which are my concerns. I do hope these concerns to do not come to pass.
Concern 1, With the "better' units of the Ork index getting a point increase and the garbage ones getting a small decrease a concern of mine arises, mono build faction. If the codex really only aligns one build, be it deepstriking big choppa nobz or whatever arises if only 1 list emerges, then IMO that is a failure of the codex as it suffocates creativity and ingenuity. (which is especially criminal considering what codex we are talking about).
Concern 2, WIth Orks seemingly needing a ton of cp, boyz having upped points and gretchin not having klan (correct me in im wrong), fielding something like a brigade or triple battalion leads to far to much-wasted points on gretchin to accommodate that level of cp.

I could go on about things but that's probably enough, to end, no I don't have stocks in stompas (although ol' buzzlebeeb is probably not coming out of his shelf any time soon). I do hope I'm wrong and will revisit this in a few months, but really don't see anything in the new ork codex that cant be done better elsewhere or for much cheaper and I personally am struggling hard to build a list I'm happy about at the end (I build like 20 lists a week as I love doing it so this is a big problem for me). Probably my expectations where far to high (looking for a reconditioning/overhaul of the codex not a polish) but I dont think thats a bad thing. Im very happy with 8th edition but I wanted to voice my opinion (to the world, if my luck is good someone in gw with power) as things can be better. I have a dream......

It's not that they HATE them as such. There's just nobody who has passion for them in rules team combined with rules team being generally incompetent in terms of balancing. Add in GW's principle of shifting what's good and what's bad to ensure what sells changes...

Because they have a machine in their basement that turns nerd-rage into money.

Yeesh, if Games Workshop hates Orks I can't imagine how vile their feelings are for Necrons.

They must also be burning effigies of Grey Knights.

I'm really not referring to the current state of the meta at all. Necrons and grey knights have been top meta choices at points in the last decade. This feels systematic to me. All their cute little commercials and articles made me believe they dreamt of a world were orks could be on top for once.


I wouldn't have cared if they were just a decent codex, or at the very least playable. I just wanted the boyz to have something to be proud about.

Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.

Orks haven't been good since 3rd edition.
20 years.

Think about how long that really is - no one cares about orks anymore; except the stubborn holdouts, and new players. I have nothing but respect for those who have endured the ages of constant reduction from GW; but I can admit that it's consistently proving itself to be in vain.

fe40k wrote:
Orks haven't been good since 3rd edition.
20 years.

Think about how long that really is - no one cares about orks anymore; except the stubborn holdouts, and new players. I have nothing but respect for those who have endured the ages of constant reduction from GW; but I can admit that it's consistently proving itself to be in vain.

Yeah, I made the mistake of believing in corporate propaganda, which is why I am so taken aback. I believed gw could care about a poor downtrodden ork. I really do hope a "whoops, we printed are preliminary point costs, these are the 'real' ones" on release day is in our future.

I suppose the performance on the Community video of the exhibition game does not help. A three turn tabling of the new Codex is not encouraging.

Ozomoto wrote:

fe40k wrote:
Orks haven't been good since 3rd edition.
20 years.

Think about how long that really is - no one cares about orks anymore; except the stubborn holdouts, and new players. I have nothing but respect for those who have endured the ages of constant reduction from GW; but I can admit that it's consistently proving itself to be in vain.

Yeah, I made the mistake of believing in corporate propaganda, which is why I am so taken aback. I believed gw could care about a poor downtrodden ork. I really do hope a "whoops, we printed are preliminary point costs, these are the 'real' ones" on release day is in our future.

its the real deal.
the codex was mout likely printed prolly 6-8 months ago.

remember the necron beta codex that floted for some time, more or less all of it was the final edition.

Christ on a bike...

Ozomoto wrote:
I just looked at the ork codex point costs. Stormboyz and boyz price increase? 90+ for all of the the new wagons? DakkaJet remains the same point cost? Mekboy workshop can make your unit be potentially worse when using it? Stompa still 900 points?

Its like GamesWorkshop applied the exact same policy they would to a decent/meta codex by just shining it up here and there to make it good. Polishing a turd gives you a polished turd.

Hoping you're mistaken. If boyz went up in cost & ork vehicles didn't decrease in cost there is going to be a lot of upset ork players.

I wish I could say I was shocked but honestly I predicted this month's ago.

Orks have no champion in the dev team and whoever "playtests" is clearly incompetent .

Getting a working codex is pot luck.

 Commissar Benny wrote:

Ozomoto wrote:
I just looked at the ork codex point costs. Stormboyz and boyz price increase? 90+ for all of the the new wagons? DakkaJet remains the same point cost? Mekboy workshop can make your unit be potentially worse when using it? Stompa still 900 points?

Its like GamesWorkshop applied the exact same policy they would to a decent/meta codex by just shining it up here and there to make it good. Polishing a turd gives you a polished turd.

Hoping you're mistaken. If boyz went up in cost & ork vehicles didn't decrease in cost there is going to be a lot of upset ork players.

Boyz went up by 1 point, like Stormboyz.

Vehicles received some big point reductions though. Battlewagon with Killkannon for example costs 52 less points now.

Spoletta wrote:

 Commissar Benny wrote:

Ozomoto wrote:
I just looked at the ork codex point costs. Stormboyz and boyz price increase? 90+ for all of the the new wagons? DakkaJet remains the same point cost? Mekboy workshop can make your unit be potentially worse when using it? Stompa still 900 points?

Its like GamesWorkshop applied the exact same policy they would to a decent/meta codex by just shining it up here and there to make it good. Polishing a turd gives you a polished turd.

Hoping you're mistaken. If boyz went up in cost & ork vehicles didn't decrease in cost there is going to be a lot of upset ork players.

Boyz went up by 1 point, like Stormboyz.

Vehicles received some big point reductions though.

The costs really don't scream 'efficient' though with the reductions. There still bs 5+ platforms paying far to much points for dakka with relatively low transport capacity considering what they carry.

The base transport (open topped) went from 82 to 64, that's not bad at all.

I'm not saying that codex: Orks will be OP, but it is definitely too soon to say that it's a bad one. Half the codex received point reductions, sometimes huge ones, and gained all the kulturs and stratagems.

Sure the green tides were nerfed, but we are not talking about Codex: Green Tides.

I remember when codex space wolves came out you had knee jerk "it sucks" as well because despite the codex being a solid one with decent internal balance it was judged that it wasn;t going to be replace any of the Imperial souop components you saw in the sterotypical meta list. Is this another case of good codex, but not obviously broken?" or?

Moriarty wrote:
I suppose the performance on the Community video of the exhibition game does not help. A three turn tabling of the new Codex is not encouraging.

That happens more often than you'd think and it's hilarious. When Magnus was debuted in 7th he got dropped first turn!

jesus christ man they JUST had a whole bunch of incredible looking models released. The codex isn't even out. Grow up.

GW doesn't hate Orks, GW is just outrageously incompetent at game design.

Typically whenever any new code launches two groups jump up in arms. One group shouting that its the worst codex ever, and another that its so overpowered that it is broken.

A few weeks later most of those people have quietened down and months later the scene is often far more level headed. Of course some codex do end up over or under powered; but in general this new edition has been reasonably solid in balance more or less. There's also been a much bigger push toward having armies with more than one viable build.

About the only real major issue is the min-maxing possible with allies in the Imperial/Marine forces.



Orks are loved - they got their own minigame complete with new sculpts and what 5 or more new vehicle releases. That's pretty huge in this current wave of codex releases where many faction got one model or even no new models with their respective codex. Remembering that this current wave of codex releases has been superfast - we've had under 2 years and there are only 2 factions without a codex (Sisters and Genstealers) whilst GW has introduced several new codex and armies over that time and given a codex to every other. In the old days we might have had 4 codex over that same time period and some armies wouldn't even see a codex before the next edition of the game.

It's incompetence. A lot of stuff was a great improvement but the codex was written by 1 guy (they even said his name in stream and said he wrote the codex). However, they did listen to us when it came to seff dreads and Morkanaut so here is my suggestions of things that need to still be fixed:

1. Rokkits 12 points on a 5+BS model - 1 shot
2. Kannon is 15 pts on a BS 5+ model - 1 shot or d6 S4 shots.
3. Lootas 17pts on a BS 5+ model - still a heavy weapon
4. Stompa 892 pts with no invuln save - taken out after it couldn't even kill1 knight. The things also can't take Kulture traitz.
5. Flyers need a small price drop.
6. Hq's need a small price drop (big mek in MA is double the points of a Teckmarine even without the kff)
7. Gretchin need the Kultur keyword
8. Big shota is 3 pts but twin big shoota is 10pts. Tripple the cost of a big shoota! Wut?!? It's cheaperto run 3 big shootas now than to run 1 twin big shoota? Erm? Gw? You drunk?
9. Twin rokkits is double the cost of rokkits on a BS 5 model.... hahahahaaaaa wtf gw.


The list goes on... Basically the same mistakes from the index the guy just never bothered to fix.

CassianSol wrote:
jesus christ man they JUST had a whole bunch of incredible looking models released. The codex isn't even out. Grow up.

What sort of logic is this? If he knows whats in the codex why does he have to wait for release day to form an opinion?

lolman1c wrote:It's incompetence. A lot of stuff was a great improvement but the codex was written by 1 guy (they even said his name in stream and said he wrote the codex). However, they did listen to us when it came to seff dreads and Morkanaut so here is my suggestions of things that need to still be fixed:

1. Rokkits 12 points on a 5+BS model - 1 shot
2. Kannon is 15 pts on a BS 5+ model - 1 shot or d6 S4 shots.
3. Lootas 17pts on a BS 5+ model - still a heavy weapon
4. Stompa 892 pts with no invuln save - taken out after it couldn't even kill1 knight. The things also can't take Kulture traitz.
5. Flyers need a small price drop.
6. Hq's need a small price drop (big mek in MA is double the points of a Teckmarine even without the kff)
7. Gretchin need the Kultur keyword
8. Big shota is 3 pts but twin big shoota is 10pts. Tripple the cost of a big shoota! Wut?!? It's cheaperto run 3 big shootas now than to run 1 twin big shoota? Erm? Gw? You drunk?
9. Twin rokkits is double the cost of rokkits on a BS 5 model.... hahahahaaaaa wtf gw.


The list goes on... Basically the same mistakes from the index the guy just never bothered to fix.

who was the writer?

8. Big shota is 3 pts but twin big shoota is 10pts. Tripple the cost of a big shoota! Wut?!? It's cheaperto run 3 big shootas now than to run 1 twin big shoota? Erm? Gw? You drunk?

you would be suprised. as a GK players looking at razorbacks with psycannons weapon cost, I always though the cost is more 2x the single option.

maybe they will day one FAQ or CA the weaker stuff. Who knows.

That's pretty huge in this current wave of codex releases where many faction got one model or even no new models with their respective codex. Remembering that this current wave of codex releases has been superfast - we've had under 2 years and there are only 2 factions without a codex (Sisters and Genstealers) whilst GW has introduced several new codex and armies over that time and given a codex to every other. In the old days we might have had 4 codex over that same time period and some armies wouldn't even see a codex before the next edition of the game.

They are hyper fast that they did 3 eldar books, 4 if one counts harlequins and at worse all 4 were solid with good soup ability. Yet when they do something else it is more or less a dice roll. They clearlly didn't want BAs to be good, considering the following nerfs. Same team that did eldar, also wrote GK, which is mind blowing when one considers the power difference, With or without soup possibility, casual or not. Same dudes though that a dark reaper shoting twice should cost less then a GK termintor, and that is not counting the fact that GK have 0 stratagems, synergies or psychic powers to buff their stuff.

Also saying that GW was doing such a titanic work to create those books, well I can't agree. Yes, with some, like eldar or knights, they put in a lot of work. But the marine books were a copy past of the index with relics and stratagems added.

I can sort of see the argument if
A) You were really invested in the Stompa being good, and it isn't.
B) You were hoping for a Guard to Current Meta codex, where almost every unit entry would be "good" versus the competition.

Neither however seems especially rational. There are some bad units in the Eldar Codex - especially the Wraith Knight. Its still top tier.

So I really don't get the "sky is falling" response. As I see it the Orks have got a considerable buff over the index and will be a significant feature of the meta. Struggling really to see how this won't be the case.

Big shootas are 5 points by the way..not sure where you got 3 from.

Sam Pearson wrote the codex. However, please do not spam him like people used to do... be civil! Also, I must add I don;t actually believe he was the only guy working on it... they just said on the live stream he was the guy who wrote the rules. So whether you should believe that or not is up to you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tyel wrote:
I can sort of see the argument if
A) You were really invested in the Stompa being good, and it isn't.
B) You were hoping for a Guard to Current Meta codex, where almost every unit entry would be "good" versus the competition.

Neither however seems especially rational. There are some bad units in the Eldar Codex - especially the Wraith Knight. Its still top tier.

So I really don't get the "sky is falling" response. As I see it the Orks have got a considerable buff over the index and will be a significant feature of the meta. Struggling really to see how this won't be the case.

Ah yes... Because we're all competitive players who want to see a 1 trick pony book and not a book that always you to use your current army to a good standard. I mean It's not like we bought these models for high prices only to have GW make them all but useless.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mmzero252 wrote:
Big shootas are 5 points by the way..not sure where you got 3 from.

Sorry, my bad. The bury image I saw looked like a 3... erghh, this adds like 10 pts to my list. XD

 lolman1c wrote:


Sorry, my bad. The bury image I saw looked like a 3... erghh, this adds like 10 pts to my list. XD

It makes sense mathematically, at least.

They used to be 6 each and 12 for the twin, so it could be worse! Now you just have to deal with the rest of the terrible codex. This codex was my hope for my army to actually get even a little decent, but it looks like it's going to remain on the shelf.