Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I think most of the negative opinions on the ork stuff comes from two things: 1, we don't know all the small rule changes within the datasheets, and 2, we DO know all the changes to points.

We know GW did go out of their way to nerf straight green tides, at least by points. but here's the stuff we do know got changed (so far) with no points changes:

-Stormboyz got the ability to deep strike, and move 6" automatically with their advance rule (statistically worse but more reliable)
-Kommandos now get free tankbusta bombs per 5, and now add 1 to wound in cc against any target in a terrain piece.
-Boyz get a tankbusta bomb per 10
-Nobz get double choppa as a loadout option
-Killa Kanz get 2 new weapon options
-Gorkanauts get 18 shots on their main gun
-Morkanauts get another improved main gun we don't yet know
-Battlewagons have 2 new variants that cost 20 points less than the current base point cost (which are locked into 'ard case). One shoots twice if it moves under half, the other gets +D6 attacks on the charge and on a 4+ causes mortal wounds. Also, the deffrolla now sports AP-2 and 2 damage.
-Flash gitz get improved gun profiles with S6 and D2, also 4+ armor
-Trakktor kannon and KMK both get statline improvements, huge in the case of the trakktor

This is just what we know so far to be the case. You can look at flyers all day and go "WTF GEEDUBS" but you have no idea whether stats changed, like almost everything else inthe codex has.

To me, this codex looks like a labor of love with some obnoxious meddling from a legal department all too necessarily involved in the playing of the game.

If the absolutely horsegak restrictions of legal precedent set in the chapterhouse debacle weren't in place, you wouldn't see no model no rules. Thank your local 3rd party knockoff manufacturer for that policy and thank the UK courts for upholding it.

I think there are some interesting things in the new codex. personally I am going to try running 3 BW full of big choppa nobz, covered by an index big mek with kff on a bike for that 5++ on the BW. I do agree the book is weak, but at least some of our options went from terribad to average. I think the book is going to be in the lower middle tier and will be surprised to see any real placement in tournaments. They will still be able to take local tournaments, but nothing major.

 Elbows wrote:
...outside of the Stompa being too expensive...

I'm starting to think that it's a feature, not a bug, that they overpriced the Stompa. Likely so no one actually buys the dang thing anymore and finds out how annoying it is to build.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
...outside of the Stompa being too expensive...

I'm starting to think that it's a feature, not a bug, that they overpriced the Stompa. Likely so no one actually buys the dang thing anymore and finds out how annoying it is to build.

I found it quite enjoyable to build. everything lined up properly and a lot of the large pieces made it a pretty simple kit... the GW plastic ones that is, now the forgeworld ones are... iffy.

I think the issue is that in general 40k players still have not realised how 8th edition works. They look at stat lines and points costs and then make all their judgements based on those and cry that the sky is falling.

From what we've seen of the new stratagems and Kulturs there's some potentially really filthy stuff in the Ork 'dex and even then there's a lot of really cool, really fluffy stuff too. People cry about 7 pt orks when really that's arguably still too cheap for what they offer and other factions are massive screwed over by obscenely overcosted troops choices. They also don't consider the sheer POWER of the re-worked ere' we go rule; giving every single unit with it a free command point re-roll in the charge phase and then you combine this with things like the Evil Sunz trait, Da Jump, Endless Green Tide (of traitors) stratagem the 90 boy list is actually stronger now than it was before despite the points increase.

 Bosskelot wrote:
Yeah GW sure do love Eldar so much that's why the range has more outdated/old models than Orks at this point.

A bit of dissonance that comes from the rules team and the models team being separate groups. People in the rules team are really passionate about Eldar, people in the models team... well obviously not so much.

Karol wrote:
Who knows maybe the desing team is super small, like 5 people and 4 of them play eldar of some sort. This way the eldar rules they crank up are at worse good as ally to other eldar lists. While other stuff is just copy pasted to save time working on some more eldar stuff. They also seem to have a huge fetish as big kits go. They try to give them very good rules when they come out. They can nerf them later on, but I don't think there were many big models that entered the game being not worth buying.

The GW design team nowadays is huge, like really huge compared to in the past.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:
Yeah GW sure do love Eldar so much that's why the range has more outdated/old models than Orks at this point.

A bit of dissonance that comes from the rules team and the models team being separate groups. People in the rules team are really passionate about Eldar, people in the models team... well obviously not so much.

I presume you're basing this on a dev's statement rather than how you perceive the eldar codexes have been handled?

the_scotsman wrote:
I think most of the negative opinions on the ork stuff comes from two things: 1, we don't know all the small rule changes within the datasheets, and 2, we DO know all the changes to points.

We know GW did go out of their way to nerf straight green tides, at least by points. but here's the stuff we do know got changed (so far) with no points changes:

-Stormboyz got the ability to deep strike, and move 6" automatically with their advance rule (statistically worse but more reliable)
-Kommandos now get free tankbusta bombs per 5, and now add 1 to wound in cc against any target in a terrain piece.
-Boyz get a tankbusta bomb per 10
-Nobz get double choppa as a loadout option
-Killa Kanz get 2 new weapon options
-Gorkanauts get 18 shots on their main gun
-Morkanauts get another improved main gun we don't yet know
-Battlewagons have 2 new variants that cost 20 points less than the current base point cost (which are locked into 'ard case). One shoots twice if it moves under half, the other gets +D6 attacks on the charge and on a 4+ causes mortal wounds. Also, the deffrolla now sports AP-2 and 2 damage.
-Flash gitz get improved gun profiles with S6 and D2, also 4+ armor
-Trakktor kannon and KMK both get statline improvements, huge in the case of the trakktor

This is just what we know so far to be the case. You can look at flyers all day and go "WTF GEEDUBS" but you have no idea whether stats changed, like almost everything else inthe codex has.

To me, this codex looks like a labor of love with some obnoxious meddling from a legal department all too necessarily involved in the playing of the game.

If the absolutely horsegak restrictions of legal precedent set in the chapterhouse debacle weren't in place, you wouldn't see no model no rules. Thank your local 3rd party knockoff manufacturer for that policy and thank the UK courts for upholding it.

Nobz with dual choppaz sound interesting, 5 strength 5 attacks per model could be fun but the lack of AP would make me hesitate to go for it. Would there be any reason to do this or is one better off going for the classic big choppa instead?

 Javadog wrote:

Nobz with dual choppaz sound interesting, 5 strength 5 attacks per model could be fun but the lack of AP would make me hesitate to go for it. Would there be any reason to do this or is one better off going for the classic big choppa instead?

Well...it's the cost of two boyz with 5/6 the attacks (well, 5/8 for a mob of 30), but +1S and better armor. 2 damage weapons could hurt though so they need to be in something unlike boyz who can suffer casualties a little more easily.

Boyz can be made S5 (Goff) and will benefit more from force multipliers like Ghaz or Warpath.

So, really it might be up to preference.

I mean their rules are pretty cool and have amazing synergy, those games that show off the stompa were pretty narly.

 Grimtuff wrote:

Karol wrote:
Who knows maybe the desing team is super small, like 5 people and 4 of them play eldar of some sort. This way the eldar rules they crank up are at worse good as ally to other eldar lists. While other stuff is just copy pasted to save time working on some more eldar stuff. They also seem to have a huge fetish as big kits go. They try to give them very good rules when they come out. They can nerf them later on, but I don't think there were many big models that entered the game being not worth buying.

The GW design team nowadays is huge, like really huge compared to in the past.

Yep. Gone are the days where a codex was written by one person with "input" by other designers.

Each codex is a collaborative effort now. Some turn out better than others - this is nothing new.

Models wise, most of the elder range is over 20 years old so you can't exactly claim favouritism there..

I would be quite happy with the Ork Buggy and Warbike of similar vintage, if they got Eldar rules.

the_scotsman wrote:
-Killa Kanz get 2 new weapon options

Really - what options? They said on Twitch they're losing the kustom mega-blastas.

beast_gts wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
-Killa Kanz get 2 new weapon options

Really - what options? They said on Twitch they're losing the kustom mega-blastas.

They have Kan Klawz and Drillas which are both 0 points and have different profiles. I thought they also got Dred Saws but as another user on the news thread pointed out that's most likely a new cheaper melee weapon option for Deff Dreads. So, amend my statement to "Killa Kanz and Deff Dreads get 1 new weapon option each".

I believe the Kan Klaw is the current AP-2 D3 weapon and the Drilla is AP-4 D2.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Javadog wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
I think most of the negative opinions on the ork stuff comes from two things: 1, we don't know all the small rule changes within the datasheets, and 2, we DO know all the changes to points.

We know GW did go out of their way to nerf straight green tides, at least by points. but here's the stuff we do know got changed (so far) with no points changes:

-Stormboyz got the ability to deep strike, and move 6" automatically with their advance rule (statistically worse but more reliable)
-Kommandos now get free tankbusta bombs per 5, and now add 1 to wound in cc against any target in a terrain piece.
-Boyz get a tankbusta bomb per 10
-Nobz get double choppa as a loadout option
-Killa Kanz get 2 new weapon options
-Gorkanauts get 18 shots on their main gun
-Morkanauts get another improved main gun we don't yet know
-Battlewagons have 2 new variants that cost 20 points less than the current base point cost (which are locked into 'ard case). One shoots twice if it moves under half, the other gets +D6 attacks on the charge and on a 4+ causes mortal wounds. Also, the deffrolla now sports AP-2 and 2 damage.
-Flash gitz get improved gun profiles with S6 and D2, also 4+ armor
-Trakktor kannon and KMK both get statline improvements, huge in the case of the trakktor

This is just what we know so far to be the case. You can look at flyers all day and go "WTF GEEDUBS" but you have no idea whether stats changed, like almost everything else inthe codex has.

To me, this codex looks like a labor of love with some obnoxious meddling from a legal department all too necessarily involved in the playing of the game.

If the absolutely horsegak restrictions of legal precedent set in the chapterhouse debacle weren't in place, you wouldn't see no model no rules. Thank your local 3rd party knockoff manufacturer for that policy and thank the UK courts for upholding it.

Nobz with dual choppaz sound interesting, 5 strength 5 attacks per model could be fun but the lack of AP would make me hesitate to go for it. Would there be any reason to do this or is one better off going for the classic big choppa instead?

Take up fewer transport slots, better strength, amazing synergy with the new Loot It stratagem (trukk dies, congratulations your Nobz are now Primaris Marines with melee stats that make Reivers green with envy) and 5 points cheaper than the big choppa option. 14ppm for 5 S5 attacks, or 19ppm for 3 S7 AP-1 D2 attacks.

Is there a link to the battle report everyone is referencing? I can't seem to find a battle with that outcome.

Erm... they don't.