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Not sure how I feel about the bonebreaker. A whopping 20 points more than a normal BW and lower capacity, in exchange for d6 attacks only on the charge. Feel like you really need to run it with blood axes to get use out of it

 BaconCatBug wrote:

leopard wrote:
I think to be honest one of the few things that will be more common than seeing a Battalion of Grots with two cheap HQs will be seeing two such Battalions

Not to be a debbie downer but because of the removal of the normal Big Mek, assuming whatever you're doing doesn't allow the Index, you've got to pay 200 points for the first battalion and then 207 for the 2nd. If they allow the old Big Mek you pay 200 for the 2nd battalion.

Guard still outdo you by a significant margin with their 180 and 181 battalions (although if Infantry go up to 5PPM then they'll be more expensive for the 2nd battalion). Dedicating 20% of your points on Gretchin that die to a wet fart is going to hurt your ability to take killy things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KillerOfMany wrote:
24 CP for (120 grots and 3 wired boys and a.... war boss?) = 559 points

.... I need to buy more grots...

You need 6 HQs for 3 Batalions. The cheapest one you can take is 2 Big Meks with SAG and 3x10 Gretchin which is 200 points.

Guard may well manage to do this slightly cheaper, that wasn't my point, my point is orks can and can likely benefit from it.

Grots may die easily however:
- something still has to go and actually kill them, six units spread out will take time and effort to actually wipe out, its certainly doable, but thats points not shooting at the rest of my army for a couple of turns - and this is orks, win by T3 or lose is still likely
- a 3pt grot can claim an objective just as easily as a guardsman, and takes the same effort more or less to remove
- grots are tiny, they are likely one of the few units that can easily get out of LoS
- grots are actually fun, they are not exactly combat monsters but if you need a 6 to wound anyway a grot blaster is still about as dangerous as other ork weapons, indeed more so as grots can actually hit.
- the 4x HQ are likely to be models you want anyway so are less of a tax (ditto the guard characters)
- there is more to the game than a dry consideration of points for who can generate CP the cheapest, there is also who can use them the best
- grots are green, thus they win over IG who are pink
- grots can be painted red and thus become the most awesome combat monster ever in the history of ever itself
- insert appropriate reason here
- you can use small units of grots to hide things behind, stick that in your Leman Russ and then drive over a grot with it
- ummm
- ahhhh
- continued page 64

Battalions grant 5 points. Brigades are 12.

redboi wrote:
Not sure how I feel about the bonebreaker. A whopping 20 points more than a normal BW and lower capacity, in exchange for d6 attacks only on the charge. Feel like you really need to run it with blood axes to get use out of it

Will be Blud Axe here with one, thinking you also want the "Ramming Speed" strat with it so unlikely to want more than one, maybe two ate the outside, but thats 20 points for 1d6 attacks that will likely hit and will likely hurt - just pick a suitable target, if it gets bogged down its a waste and the standard one is better - however for that sort of assault roll a smaller unit inside is actually better - a full mob of 20 is going to have trouble dismounting when in among the enemy, a smaller block of nobz (say ten + 2 runts) likely can dismount.

time will tell on the wagons if they are even worth it at all, not seeing the point of the gun wagon, largely due to the rubbish chance of actually hitting.

load out planned here:
Bonebreaker
- 4x big shoota

I'd put the stickbomb flinger on it but the model has them on the turret which I won't be using so I need to make a spare hatch and make a flinger to sit on it to sit on the rear mounting point.

Idea is everything is assault, a bit in ya face, trick will be what to run with it so that when it dies there are things benefitting from it - if this is the only target for anti tank its dead anyway

redboi wrote:
Not sure how I feel about the bonebreaker. A whopping 20 points more than a normal BW and lower capacity, in exchange for d6 attacks only on the charge. Feel like you really need to run it with blood axes to get use out of it

That's still 50+% extra A on average (6 to 9.5). Also, the mere threat of allowing it to charge again might make an opponent decide to not fall back in some situations (pretty niche probably, but might be key sometimes). Finally, how often do you actually fill up a Battlewagon completely? 20 spots is very expensive to fill up with anything but Boyz. 12 spots still allows you to get Thraka + 5 Meganobz or other dangerous loadouts in there. Sure, you might want to get 4 extra MANz in there but if there's one thing I've learned in my 40k adventures it's that overspecializing your army gets you nowhere. A normal Deffrolla Battlewagon + Thraka + 9 MANz will krump anything and everything in CC but has barely any option to deal with those Hellblasters hiding on top of some ruin, but because you've invested so much in your CC deffstar you now lack the points to invest in the required dakka to deal with other threats.

 JimOnMars wrote:
Battalions grant 5 points. Brigades are 12.

True, but a pair of grot Battalions is +10CP, and a heck of a lot cheaper than a Brigade - you still have the points for your main formation as well, and could probably make that a Brigade as well...

may not be optimal but could be fun

redboi wrote:
Not sure how I feel about the bonebreaker. A whopping 20 points more than a normal BW and lower capacity, in exchange for d6 attacks only on the charge. Feel like you really need to run it with blood axes to get use out of it

Hahaha.

Do you have any idea. That thing is a bloodbath on the charge, doesn't matter what clan.

That's 9 and a half attacks, hitting on 2s AP2 dmg 2 at S9.

On average, that's 4 dead primaris Marines each round of combat.

How do we feel about killsaws on meganobz. 10 points for an extra attack and flat 2 damage instead of D3 doesnt seem too bad to me. Anyone else have thoughts?

Is 8 MEQ wounds really a bloodbath?

On 9.5 attacks thats pretty good

For 140 points? On a transport?

When you're specifically comparing that to a stock battlewagon?

For reference, that's comparable to how many MEQs would be killed by 20 Lootas.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Is 8 MEQ wounds really a bloodbath?

Depends how many of them you have and what they hit, especially if one uses the strategem for a few mortal wounds as well

Team. Played three games yesterday with new dex. Brought this list vs imperial soup.

So going first dramatically impacted games still, obviously. But yeah, first impressions:

1) Deepstriking boyz changes the way you think about support staff, Painboys are bad when they are stranded behind people getting jumped and deepstrikers. Painboys get less stock IMO especially considering their price increase.
2) Deffkilla Wartrikes are awesome, they are versatile and goddamn fast. Being able to 6" adv and ramming speed is just too much threat range. These guys are legit, their weapon options are super interesting too. I think they are best as death skulls.
3) Traktor Kannons are as brutal as everyone thinks, but only for the first turn or two. Once you kill the flyers they become meh. 6 is too many.
4) Badmoon shoota boyz with DDD5+ and shoot twice was not as good a screen killer as I had hoped. I'm evacuating from this 4CP strategy.
5) Weirdboyz are probably minimum 2, always bring da jump but also Fists of Gork. With our HQ threat range, fist of gork is solid, and as Jidmah says, casting it on the weirdboy himself makes him a monster.
6) I think to bring Nobz, you want them to be goffs instead of evil sunz. They are good, but not entirely that much better than boyz, and less durable. Nobz suffer from wanting to attack premium targets, but also being a perfect target for those premium guys to fight back. (e.g. characters with multi dmg weapons).
6) Generally, we are NOT more durable than before, evil sunz really doesn't increase the footslogging speed, you're simply not foot slogging anymore. It's trivial to get 90 boyz in their face turn 2. So what becomes more important is screen killers with shooting, so Dakka Jets (or similar) go up in stock IMO.
7) There is one exception to (6), Grot Shields. That is low key one of the best stratagem, if not the best, it rivals Unstoppable Green Tide. If 30 gretchin are not in front of your boyz you're doing it wrong. The 1 stratagem allows you to 2+ ANY of the grots so long as the squad is 3" away from the target. My opponent ended up just shooting gretchin first after the first game because they are easier to kill than boyz (which I'm also super happy about).

Keep in mind I'm still playing traditional green tide, and I'm actually bringing less on the board now than I used to. I found with my list that my threats were staggered too much and I was just losing a squad a turn without the impact I needed, running and slamming into screens took too long and I was not overwhelming them well enough.

Considering the above, I'm moving to this list for next weekend:

My durability in this list is just deepstrike and gretchin. The KFF is only for the mek gunz. 60 boyz for 4CP and 30 stormboyz for free. Turn 2 da jump the 30 remaining boyz and we are literally all charging. 4 HQ monsters will also be there as well, zhadsnark and the 3 wartrikes.

Wartrikes are pretty CP hungry, but they are targets for so many good ones. Billowing Smoke, Ramming Speed, Orks is Never Beaten, Snagga Grapple, and they can be Looted once they die. I find that once I hit hard with my boyz, all my footslogging HQ are simply left behind, but the Wartrikes can just traverse the whole table whenever they want. I want saturation of threats on turn 2, and the wartrikes do that. I think the deathskull 6++ and the rerolls take the wartrikes over the edge, suddenly I'm considering shooting the Cutta part of the Killjet, and I am expecting to reroll my single miss in melee.

Deffkilla wartrike is a pretty big disappointment to me. I wanted it to be more of a cc threat. I was holding out hopes for a relic that fixes it in the way that every castellan you've ever faced has the wrath of Caul relic plasmagun. If it could take Da Killa Klaw it would be good.

I'm also bummed that the Morkanaut still has 2 fewer attacks than the Gorkanaut.

The mekboy workshop is garbage.

What do you guys think is the most improved unit in the codex? I'm thinking lootas. Maybe Gorkanaut, Deff Dread, Manz, or Deffkoptas, but lootas got grot Shields and more dakka, which are 2 strats that essentially fix their problems

ETA:. Interesting that I got ninjad by a post singing the praises of the Deffkilla. I haven't run it in games yet, so I defer to experience on that.

 TedNugent wrote:
For 140 points? On a transport?

When you're specifically comparing that to a stock battlewagon?

For reference, that's comparable to how many MEQs would be killed by 20 Lootas.

I think it's really good, but it's 159 points

 TedNugent wrote:

redboi wrote:
Not sure how I feel about the bonebreaker. A whopping 20 points more than a normal BW and lower capacity, in exchange for d6 attacks only on the charge. Feel like you really need to run it with blood axes to get use out of it

Hahaha.

Do you have any idea. That thing is a bloodbath on the charge, doesn't matter what clan.

That's 9 and a half attacks, hitting on 2s AP2 dmg 2 at S9.

On average, that's 4 dead primaris Marines each round of combat.

Doesnt it hit on 5s?

tag8833 wrote:
Deffkilla wartrike is a pretty big disappointment to me. I wanted it to be more of a cc threat. I was holding out hopes for a relic that fixes it in the way that every castellan you've ever faced has the wrath of Caul relic plasmagun. If it could take Da Killa Klaw it would be good.

I'm also bummed that the Morkanaut still has 2 fewer attacks than the Gorkanaut.

The mekboy workshop is garbage.

What do you guys think is the most improved unit in the codex? I'm thinking lootas. Maybe Gorkanaut, Deff Dread, Manz, or Deffkoptas, but lootas got grot Shields and more dakka, which are 2 strats that essentially fix their problems

ETA:. Interesting that I got ninjad by a post singing the praises of the Deffkilla. I haven't run it in games yet, so I defer to experience on that.

Yeah man the reroll wound is pretty good in melee, but to be honest he doesn't hit as hard as a normal warboss, so you're right as well. I like how versatile of a unit he is however, he's just faster, more durable, better guns, massive threat range, and can smite on the charge.

 Billagio wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:

redboi wrote:
Not sure how I feel about the bonebreaker. A whopping 20 points more than a normal BW and lower capacity, in exchange for d6 attacks only on the charge. Feel like you really need to run it with blood axes to get use out of it

Hahaha.

Do you have any idea. That thing is a bloodbath on the charge, doesn't matter what clan.

That's 9 and a half attacks, hitting on 2s AP2 dmg 2 at S9.

On average, that's 4 dead primaris Marines each round of combat.

Doesnt it hit on 5s?

It hits on 2s with the deffrolla.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 Billagio wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:

redboi wrote:
Not sure how I feel about the bonebreaker. A whopping 20 points more than a normal BW and lower capacity, in exchange for d6 attacks only on the charge. Feel like you really need to run it with blood axes to get use out of it

Hahaha.

Do you have any idea. That thing is a bloodbath on the charge, doesn't matter what clan.

That's 9 and a half attacks, hitting on 2s AP2 dmg 2 at S9.

On average, that's 4 dead primaris Marines each round of combat.

Doesnt it hit on 5s?

It hits on 2s with the deffrolla.

Oh god damnit. For some reason when I read 3 to hit rolls I read 3 "hits" instead.

tag8833 wrote:

The mekboy workshop is garbage.

What do you guys think is the most improved unit in the codex? I'm thinking lootas. Maybe Gorkanaut, Deff Dread, Manz, or Deffkoptas, but lootas got grot Shields and more dakka, which are 2 strats that essentially fix their problems

Thas funny. I would have though the lootas was the singly least improved unit in the codex. I mean, yes, you can boost them by spending CP's, but you could do so with any other ork unit, like tankbustas or smasha gunz, which are far better.

 Billagio wrote:
How do we feel about killsaws on meganobz. 10 points for an extra attack and flat 2 damage instead of D3 doesnt seem too bad to me. Anyone else have thoughts?

It's 8 because their Kustom Shoota also costs 2 points Anyway, seems worth it to me, reliable 2 damage is a biggie in my book and you get bumped up to 4A and AP-4 as well (meaning that many 3+ save vehicles won't get a save anymore). 43 points doesn't seem too bad to me. Put them in the Tellyporta (tossing them in a Bonebreaka to teleport as a single package optional. Actually, 4 MANz + Bonebreaka in a Tellyporta sounds like a sweet deal for slightly under 350 pts), deepstrike them next to the nearest metal bawks that needs opening and have fun. Klan should probably be Evil Sunz for the 8" charge.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
OK ladz, lissen up.

GET STUCK IN allows you to fight a second time, and can be activated when you choose a unit to fight.

"When you choose" occurs after all charges...but if it is your turn, you get to choose first.

So...

40 skarboyz attack because they charged.

Then other charges go.

Then you chooose to activate the scarboyz again...BEFORE THE KNIGHT GETS TO SWING BACK.

So all "80" boyz get their 4 attacks before the knight swings back. if under warpath, and Gazzy is near, they get 6 each...so

480 STRENGTH 5 ATTACKS with exploding 6s...yielding 178 WOUNDS.

Before the knight gets to swing back.

Or should I say..."What Knight??"

I mean you're spending 6CP to do that, so it's not that impressive.

6cp to nuke a 4th or third of someones army is pretty damn good value, especially considering you still have the rest of your armies actions in across three phases to do other things with

PiñaColada wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
For 140 points? On a transport?

When you're specifically comparing that to a stock battlewagon?

For reference, that's comparable to how many MEQs would be killed by 20 Lootas.

I think it's really good, but it's 159 points

Oho

That's difrerent.

Damn it, I get my codex tomorrow.

pismakron wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

The mekboy workshop is garbage.

What do you guys think is the most improved unit in the codex? I'm thinking lootas. Maybe Gorkanaut, Deff Dread, Manz, or Deffkoptas, but lootas got grot Shields and more dakka, which are 2 strats that essentially fix their problems

Thas funny. I would have though the lootas was the singly least improved unit in the codex. I mean, yes, you can boost them by spending CP's, but you could do so with any other ork unit, like tankbustas or smasha gunz, which are far better.

smasha Guns can't benefit because they have the Gretchen keyword. Tankbustas can benefit, but benefit less because they have assault weapons, and only have 24" range, so they are a midfield unit that is harder to shield, and typically is going to ride a transport.

Painboy is probably least improved. Lost killsaw, urty syringe got worse, other ways to get a 6+ fnp, only one strat that benefits them, and it's extremely situational, and for all of they they went up in points.

 davou wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
OK ladz, lissen up.

GET STUCK IN allows you to fight a second time, and can be activated when you choose a unit to fight.

"When you choose" occurs after all charges...but if it is your turn, you get to choose first.

So...

40 skarboyz attack because they charged.

Then other charges go.

Then you chooose to activate the scarboyz again...BEFORE THE KNIGHT GETS TO SWING BACK.

So all "80" boyz get their 4 attacks before the knight swings back. if under warpath, and Gazzy is near, they get 6 each...so

480 STRENGTH 5 ATTACKS with exploding 6s...yielding 178 WOUNDS.

Before the knight gets to swing back.

Or should I say..."What Knight??"

I mean you're spending 6CP to do that, so it's not that impressive.

6cp to nuke a 4th or third of someones army is pretty damn good value, especially considering you still have the rest of your armies actions in across three phases to do other things with

Also, if you multicharge, you can distribute those 178 wounds to multiple things. 178 wounds goes a long, long, LONG way.

tag8833 wrote:
Painboy is probably least improved. Lost killsaw, urty syringe got worse, other ways to get a 6+ fnp, only one strat that benefits them, and it's extremely situational, and for all of they they went up in points.

'urty syringe went from being strictly worse than attacking with the PK you had to take anyways to granting an additional attack. I'd say this is a net gain, even if it's tiny.

The least improved model would be the mini-mek. He went from being useless to being useless and locked into the worst weapon option he could choose from before.

The medi-squig is cute if you have Grotznik use it on himself, or if you want to heal a character that's almost dead for 2d3 (Thrakka/Wartrike/Warboss).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 davou wrote:
6cp to nuke a 4th or third of someones army is pretty damn good value, especially considering you still have the rest of your armies actions in across three phases to do other things with

100% agree. Especially in the context of the smash-captain being nerfed because he could one-shot anything for 7CP...

 Jidmah wrote:

 davou wrote:
6cp to nuke a 4th or third of someones army is pretty damn good value, especially considering you still have the rest of your armies actions in across three phases to do other things with

100% agree. Especially in the context of the smash-captain being nerfed because he could one-shot anything for 7CP...

It is not even 6 CP, is it?. 1 CP to mob up to 40, 1 CP to skarboyz, 3 CP to double fight. You can jump them in on turn 1.

You can do it with Evil Sunz Nobz as well. 1 CP to mob up to twenty. Jump in. Make the charge (considerably easier with the +1) , and wreck whatever he has. If you give the Nobz dual choppas and sprinkle in a few klaws and big choppas, then they will wreck face, no matter what thery are charging. You might even not need to fight twice.

In fact, with Da Jump, the Evil Sunz trait, and the new buffed charge reroll, then Orks probably have one of the nastiest turn one bombs in the game. We had that as well before the codex, but it was handicapped by being essentially 50/50 chance of making the charge.

A variation could be to use Death Skullz nobz and use their anti-vehicle stratagem.

You're right, it's 2CP to Ard Boyz (for some bizzare reason, wasn't the nerf to 5+ enough?) and 1CP for Skarboyz.

A T1 Ork Bomb does sound extremely tasty now

Mek shop plus a Kill Tank GIGA Shoota.
Skip a turn of shooting, but next turn you're shooting a Heavy36 Gun ahahahah.

4+ to hit if you havent been bracket
Re-Roll 1 for Badmoon
DDD in full effect loll.

The problem with the mek shop is that a D6 averages 3.5, so getting max shots for 1 turn is always (slightly) less than shooting random shots for 2 turns.