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So if I understand it right, Index options are still available for units even when they get replaced in a codex.

So a Big Mek could pick from the index Big Mek options, to get a KFF despite that model being retired. He just pays codex points for being a Big Mek, and codex points for a KFF.

Do Index Deffkoptas therefore pay codex price for being DeffKoptas, and can also pay 15pts for a Killsaw (as that was an option and this is the codex price), and 0pts for a Bigbomm? Index option and index price - weapon doesn't exist in the codex?

Tastyfish wrote:
So if I understand it right, Index options are still available for units even when they get replaced in a codex.

So a Big Mek could pick from the index Big Mek options, to get a KFF despite that model being retired. He just pays codex points for being a Big Mek, and codex points for a KFF.

Do Index Deffkoptas therefore pay codex price for being DeffKoptas, and can also pay 15pts for a Killsaw (as that was an option and this is the codex price), and 0pts for a Bigbomm? Index option and index price - weapon doesn't exist in the codex?

Yes, this is correct.

So I've seen people saying I can't just take 4 saws on my Deff Dreads and I'd like to know why. Because I figure "may repace any of it's shootas and/or Klaws" to mean I can replace all 4 with Saws if I wanted.
Other than that, I plan on getting a Bonebreaka and 2/3 Dredds, what is the best way to utilize them? DS both, or just the Dredds and race the BW across the table? I'll be playing as Evil Sunz so speed isn't that much of an issue.

 Castozor wrote:
So I've seen people saying I can't just take 4 saws on my Deff Dreads and I'd like to know why. Because I figure "may repace any of it's shootas and/or Klaws" to mean I can replace all 4 with Saws if I wanted.
Other than that, I plan on getting a Bonebreaka and 2/3 Dredds, what is the best way to utilize them? DS both, or just the Dredds and race the BW across the table? I'll be playing as Evil Sunz so speed isn't that much of an issue.

You can have 4 dread saws but I think you should consider 1 claw and 3 saws to get 3 claw attacks for an additional 5 points over your 4 saws

I really dig the idea of putting Porting 3 dreads. IM pretty sure that a Suns Bone breaker can T1 charge from across the table with a trike buff and ramming speed. Potentially no need to port it.

Da lukky stikk I find only worth it on a painboy on bike, it makes the powerklaw actually hit and it creates a nice aura for other characters
Such as
Painboy on bike
Zhardsnark
Warboss on bike w relic klaw
Warboss on trike (w brutal but kunnin trait)
That’s a beastly combo
Especially when tied with Goff skar boys, grots and
3x Deffdread bomb
And kff mekadread w killkannon or Morkanaut kff
3-4x Mek guns (traktor/smasha)
Add a trukk full of tankbustas or 2

I played my first 1000 pt game today against a mate running a vanilla, non-competitive ultramarine primaris list.
Orks tabled him turn 4, using the following;

Battalion
Deathskulls

Big Mek SAG
Big Mek KFF

3x 10 Gretchin

Dakkajet

Outrider
Evil Sunz

Warboss on bike, Brutal but Kunnin, Da Killa Klaw

3x Shockjump Dragstas

Spearhead
Snakebite

Warphead Da Jump, Fists of Gork, scorched gitbonez

3x Smasha Guns

My thoughts were basically a list to try out some of the new units, relics and strategems, see how it all plays out. Causalities on the ork side were light and we plain outgunned the marines. Favourite part? Warboss slaughtering a unit of 10 primaris marines without breaking a sweat, and the jumping smite bomb that is the warphead.

Smasha guns are very cheap and highly effective, and the Shockjump Dragstas are also very useful. Lots of d6 damage weaponry here, and at 1000 points, not a lot that the marines could do, even with plasma.

An interesting little game, my club has been watching with interest, and are already looking for counters.

So now that the codex is out - what are our thoughts on it?

It looks strong from a competitive standpoint; but from a casual standpoint - not so much, when you're aiming to take the "fun" units. Gretchin squads of all types getting no Kultur is a loss; and then all the other units didn't get relevant enough points drops.

It seems like the code is entirely designed around Tellyporta+Da Jump, and some Evil Sunz action.

Ork Battlescribe file just got released. Update your data, and you'll have it.

I think that might help some of you with your questions like "Can I take 4 Dread Klaws?" or "Can my Nob have double Choppa?". The battlescribe file isn't always right, and the data authors can make mistakes, but seeing the options visually is really useful in my opinion.

If you do spot any errors in the new battlescribe file, you can post them to the WH40K issue tracker: https://github.com/BSData/wh40k/issues

--------------------

Now back to fun. Is there a chance the Wazbom Blastajet got good? It looks to me like a Deathskulls one will do about 7 wounds to a rhino, Dreadnought, or Wave Serpent (Uncontrolled bursts negates the serpent shield effect). That is better than a shokkjump dragster, and on a more durable platform, though one that degrades.

fe40k wrote:
So now that the codex is out - what are our thoughts on it?

It looks strong from a competitive standpoint; but from a casual standpoint - not so much, when you're aiming to take the "fun" units. Gretchin squads of all types getting no Kultur is a loss; and then all the other units didn't get relevant enough points drops.

It seems like the code is entirely designed around Tellyporta+Da Jump, and some Evil Sunz action.

I think the Codex has potential for really powerful lists. Spamming Traktor kannons is going to hard counter Quins, Drukhari Kabals and some Craftworld lists. That's even really strong against Knights. I know it's early days but Deathskulls look very strong, but to be honest all the Kulturs look viable.

Shame about gretchen rule because I was hoping my Grot tanks were going to get some nice buffs. I guess DDD is still pretty nice on them.

So do we think that kill saws are the go to on MANz now (assuming a way to get them into a fast charge like a BW, Tellyport, Da Jump etc)? Just thinking about how I want to model them.

On the iBooks version of the codex, some of the new buggies have grot gunners, but when you hit the link for more info on what they actually do it says they add 1 to hit rolls made with the heavy squig launcha which only the rukkatruck has. Are they meant to add one to the hit rolls of each buggies main weapon?

 Javadog wrote:
On the iBooks version of the codex, some of the new buggies have grot gunners, but when you hit the link for more info on what they actually do it says they add 1 to hit rolls made with the heavy squig launcha which only the rukkatruck has. Are they meant to add one to the hit rolls of each buggies main weapon?

On the other buggies, they add one to the hit roll for the grot blasta. Except the Shokkjump, which gets a +2 for the Shokk Attack Rifle from grot gunner and targetin' squig.

Because the Gretchin around the Mekguns are now part of the Mekgun model, does that mean we can shoot from the gretchin?

And because they don't have a ruleset when it says "Must be within 1" of the mekgun" because the gretchin *are* the mekgun, can you chainthem to fire the mekgun even further than normal?

Also, because they "aren't" part of the mekgun, nor do they have rules. How do they move? Can they move?

Did anyone figure out if the kff has changed in anyway or was the dude on warhammer tv talking crap?

 lolman1c wrote:
Did anyone figure out if the kff has changed in anyway or was the dude on warhammer tv talking crap?

Pretty sure it's the exact same rules as before. Wholly within 9".

 lolman1c wrote:
Did anyone figure out if the kff has changed in anyway or was the dude on warhammer tv talking crap?

When did they talk about it?

The rules for it haven't changed, but there is now a 3 CP strategem that doubles the range for 1 turn. Kinda iffy if you ask me.

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Because the Gretchin around the Mekguns are now part of the Mekgun model, does that mean we can shoot from the gretchin?

And because they don't have a ruleset when it says "Must be within 1" of the mekgun" because the gretchin *are* the mekgun, can you chainthem to fire the mekgun even further than normal?

Also, because they "aren't" part of the mekgun, nor do they have rules. How do they move? Can they move?

To build on this, the rule says

"Each mek Gun and its grot krew are treated as a single model for all rules purposes."

Which means the Krew ARE considered as the Mek Gun for the "Must be placed within 1" of the mek gun", we can use the Gretchin to Daisy chain and shoot the mekgun.

I plan on taking evil sunz 10nobz with double choppas and weirdboy in bone breaka near wartrike and use the 3d6 charge strat to assault with bone breaka doing d3 mortals followed by 6+d6 S 9 attacks hitting on 2s. Following turn if alive disembark nobz with weirdboy. Cast warpath for 6 attacks each nob @S5 and if wagon explodes use lootit for 3+ Sv nobz. Of course I'll support this charge with scrapjet, the wartrike, wsrbikers and Zhadsnark. Should make for lots of turn 1 charges and lots of damage. Early in the game. I don't play many knight but I do play lots of marines and guard so this would be fun and fast.

 Eonfuzz wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Because the Gretchin around the Mekguns are now part of the Mekgun model, does that mean we can shoot from the gretchin?

And because they don't have a ruleset when it says "Must be within 1" of the mekgun" because the gretchin *are* the mekgun, can you chainthem to fire the mekgun even further than normal?

Also, because they "aren't" part of the mekgun, nor do they have rules. How do they move? Can they move?

To build on this, the rule says

"Each mek Gun and its grot krew are treated as a single model for all rules purposes."

Which means the Krew ARE considered as the Mek Gun for the "Must be placed within 1" of the mek gun", we can use the Gretchin to Daisy chain and shoot the mekgun.

To answer your question:

Grot Krew: Each Mek Gun and its grot krew are treated
as a single model for all rules purposes. The krew must
remain within 1" of their Mek Gun and cannot be
targeted or attacked separately. The range and visibility
of all attacks made by a Mek Gun are measured from the
Mek Gun, not the krew.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I made a little 1k list. Gonna 'Port in the Dredz, hide the Gunz near the rear (they got some solid range), Mob Up the Boyz, and slog behind the Gretchin.

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [54 PL, 1000pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz

+ HQ +

Warboss [4 PL, 90pts]: Ard as Nails, Attack Squig, Kombi-Rokkit, Power Klaw, Super Cybork Body, Warlord

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 4. Fists of Gork, 5. Da Krunch, Warphead (1 CP)

+ Troops +

Boyz [4 PL, 70pts]: Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 9x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Boyz [11 PL, 210pts]: 3x Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Gretchin [4 PL, 90pts]: 30x Gretchin

+ Heavy Support +

Deff Dread [16 PL, 295pts]
. Deff Dread: Dread Saw, Dread Saw, Dread Saw, Dread Saw
. Deff Dread: Dread Saw, Dread Saw, Dread Saw, Dread Saw
. Deff Dread: Dread Klaw, Dread Klaw, Dread Saw, Dread Saw

Mek Gunz [12 PL, 183pts]
. Gun: Traktor Kannon
. Gun: Traktor Kannon
. Gun: Traktor Kannon
. Gun: Smasha Gun
. Gun: Smasha Gun
. Gun: Smasha Gun

++ Total: [54 PL, 1000pts] ++

What are our thoughts on the [Deffkilla Wartrike] vs [Warboss on Warbike]?

120 points and +1 attack, +1 wound, +ability to take a 5/6 on advancing, +more shots within 8"; ability to use "-1 to hit" stratagem on

101 points and +1s, +2 attacks (but only S4/AP-1), +ability to better use "Brutal but Kunnin", +more shots up to range 18"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wait - Gretchin can't benefit from kultur, nor from stratagems - unless specifically specified, right?

FFS, there goes my plan of Warpath+Da Jump 30 Snakebites Gretchin, the using "Monster Hunters"+"Get in, Boyz!", for double attacking and trying shoot down+swarm a Knight to death.

Fething MekGunz and Deathskulls kulture ruining all the grot dreams.

Okay, Mek Gunz may be our best unit in the codex if RAW is abused.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766294.page#10217684

We will be able to have crazy long range artillery that doesn't require LOS, this and 2++ MANz may be the first super WAAC list orks can run.

No one will agree to playing Mek Gunz like that.

As I said in that thread: a Krew and its Gun counting as a single model does not mean each Grot is a Mek Gun. They're still a Grot. Any other interpretation is ignoring common sense and the rules.

delete me
took this to the other thread

Still curious if I can use "Get in, Boyz!" on Gretchin - but I know I can't. =(

Wait, am I reading this right -- Kommandos don't get burnas anymore?

Seems not, but they get a buff to Wounding when hitting targets in a terrain feature, and can pick up Tankbusta Bombs.

Coh Magnussen wrote:
Wait, am I reading this right -- Kommandos don't get burnas anymore?

Really a shame, seeing as I bought a couple of their "Kommando with burna" specifically and I don't think the model is any older than the other Kommando models.

Look at the bright side, I now have literally no reason to get a burna box.

 Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:

Coh Magnussen wrote:
Wait, am I reading this right -- Kommandos don't get burnas anymore?

Really a shame, seeing as I bought a couple of their "Kommando with burna" specifically and I don't think the model is any older than the other Kommando models.

You are able to use the index for this since there is a discrepancy.

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
I plan on taking evil sunz 10nobz with double choppas and weirdboy in bone breaka near wartrike and use the 3d6 charge strat to assault with bone breaka doing d3 mortals followed by 6+d6 S 9 attacks hitting on 2s. Following turn if alive disembark nobz with weirdboy. Cast warpath for 6 attacks each nob @S5 and if wagon explodes use lootit for 3+ Sv nobz. Of course I'll support this charge with scrapjet, the wartrike, wsrbikers and Zhadsnark. Should make for lots of turn 1 charges and lots of damage. Early in the game. I don't play many knight but I do play lots of marines and guard so this would be fun and fast.

Those same nobs would do more damage with a banner nob compared to warpath. And the banner affects all units in aura instead of just one unit only after an autoperils weirdboy casting warpath.