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Thanks, I hadn't seen the 'nid faq entry. Another question -- if My blood axe open-topped transport full of blood axe tankbustas falls back, and doesn't shoot. But the embarked tankbustas DO shoot. Can the transport still charge? The way I'm reading it they can, and that seems awfully handy.

'Nids FAQ clarified that we couldn't advance twice, probably to slow down the genestealers missile.

 Emicrania wrote:
'Nids FAQ clarified that we couldn't advance twice, probably to slow down the genestealers missile.

Guys, the Nid FAQ only refers to Advancing twice during the SAME phase. The Evil Sunz stratagem takes place during the Shooting phase, which is a different phase from the Movement phase.

Tempted to try a 30 man Boyz squad (PK Nob) and 10 man Boyz (PK Nob) and Mob up strategies.

I reckon the Skarboyz or Ardboyz are going to be better but having to kill 20 models to lose the attack (coupled with dealing with backrange support) seems tough to handle.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Tempted to try a 30 man Boyz squad (PK Nob) and 10 man Boyz (PK Nob) and Mob up strategies.

I reckon the Skarboyz or Ardboyz are going to be better but having to kill 20 models to lose the attack (coupled with dealing with backrange support) seems tough to handle.

As long as they deep strike and are evil sun fine. 40 boyz in face without anything but overwatch is nasty. If they try to walk they gnt blasted

 Nym wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
'Nids FAQ clarified that we couldn't advance twice, probably to slow down the genestealers missile.

Guys, the Nid FAQ only refers to Advancing twice during the SAME phase. The Evil Sunz stratagem takes place during the Shooting phase, which is a different phase from the Movement phase.

In that case, you would not be allowed to advance at all, since you may only advance during the movement phase.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Nym wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
'Nids FAQ clarified that we couldn't advance twice, probably to slow down the genestealers missile.

Guys, the Nid FAQ only refers to Advancing twice during the SAME phase. The Evil Sunz stratagem takes place during the Shooting phase, which is a different phase from the Movement phase.

In that case, you would not be allowed to advance at all, since you may only advance during the movement phase.

It says "[...] That unit can immediately make a move as if it were the Movement phase..." so it's probably the exact same as described in the nids FAQ. It's basically the movement phase

So, first playtest of orks has happened, myself and my friend both found great success with two different playstyles.

I ran a pair of Battalion detachments, 2.5K points, one battalion of Evil Sunz and one battalion of Freebootas.

Evil Sunz had one unit of 30 and one unit of 10 ork boyz, who combined and da jumped turn 1, then just one unit of 10 gretchin who stood in front to tank if I didnt get turn 1 and the boyz got shot. Then I had all the new buggies except the squigbuggy and boomdakka, deffkilla and 9 warbikes, and a Bonebreaka with nobz and a waaagh banner nob, deep striking.

Freebootas had 3 units of gretchin, one unit of 3 smasha guns, badrukk and the weirdboy with da jump, then a big unit of flash gits and a big unit of lootas. Also had a trukk full of tankbustas and a wazboom blastajet in the freeboota detachment because shooty unit.

I was up against guard with 60 infantry (brigade detachment), 4 lemans (one commander), 3 armored sentinels, deep striking scions with plasma, plus a pair of knight helverins in a super heavy aux (so they only got the weaker trait thing where you pick a negative).

I got second turn, avoided a bunch of damage to the boyz by using Grot shield - a whole Punisher Russ tank commander with rerolls to hit went straight into a unit of 10 gretchin. All his anti tank basically went into the wazbomb and killed it, but it took all the anti tank fire like a champ, all the buggies survived.

My turn, over 30 mobbed up boyz piled straight into the lines of the guardsmen with Warpath on, then attacked again just for good measure. I was careful to allocate the attacks to leave a couple units with 2-3 guys left, and morale helped sweep up an extra 8-10 models. I managed to tag a helverin and the tank commander who had rolled up a bit in the last pile in move as well, so no shooting for them. I blew away an armored sentinel with the Smasha guns just to trigger the Freeboota kultur (They don't benefit from the +1BS rule, but they still count as a Freeboota unit for the purposes of other models who do have the Kultur) so everything else in the detachment cracked away with 4+ to 2+ BS... blew away the second Helverin, got a leman to the last bracket and killed a sentinel with the snazzguns since it was the only thing in range.

Turn 2, my opponent pretty much just shot boyz and Freebootas since they'd popped out of their trukk. he got the boyz down to like 5 and I just let them run from morale. At this point the remaining guardsmen did not have the numbers to cover everything so they kept one undamaged leman and the helverin screened. The last sentinel ended up in front of the two tanks to try and keep the Bonebreaka away. Scions also dropped, taking out two buggies and finishing off the freebootas.

I dropped the bonebreaka, did the same smasha gun thing on the last sentinel, shot everything into the screened helverin and killed it, then used my last CP to Ramming Speed the bonebreaka into the last full hp russ, taking it down below half.

with most things gone or tied up, and nobz about to pop out of the bonebreaka and sweep the field, my opponent conceded. Evil Sunz quick threats are the absolute business, as id figured they would be.

My friend tried a list in a very different vein, with Goff boyz mobs, a morkanaut with a KFF, and a max mob of Killa Kanz running alongside the boyz. The combination of grot shield onto the killa kanz and Loot It whenever a kan died made those boyz super durable, and he also ended up winning albeit a bit more pyrrhically.

I would suggest if we have suggestions errata or FAQs we Spam the heck out of gw rules email now asxthis is the week they gather feedback and changes for the faq that comes out in 2-3 weeks. After that we are stuck with the codex as it is for at least may 2019 when the next major faq comes out. (Considering chapter approved is already printed and in thier teaser video)

What do we want to see changed within the guidelines of this codex?
Usually points are out on these FAQs but I’m going to address the stompa.
Kommando nob I want the big choppa option as the kommando upgrade sprue from fw has the option.
Goff warlord trait is just flat out worse then generic trait.
Mobile fortress doesn’t have the index faq yet...

 Jidmah wrote:
In that case, you would not be allowed to advance at all, since you may only advance during the movement phase.

AFAIK, Advancing during a different phase has always been possible when the rule specifies "as if it were the Movement phase". I play CSM / TS and Warptime allows us to do that. ETC (I think) published a rule CHANGE last year to forbid it, but it holds only for their tournaments.

the_scotsman wrote:

My friend tried a list in a very different vein, with Goff boyz mobs, a morkanaut with a KFF, and a max mob of Killa Kanz running alongside the boyz. The combination of grot shield onto the killa kanz and Loot It whenever a kan died made those boyz super durable, and he also ended up winning albeit a bit more pyrrhically.

Can you use grot shield on killa kans or did same reason that prevents clan bonus prevent it?

Also in some thread there was suggested using headbang spell with cp to blow up de raider calculating odds as 5+ with reroll but can't find thread. Anyway spell is over t so t5 you need to roll 6. Even with reroll 30.5% odds

the_scotsman 766225 10218228 wrote: (They don't benefit from the +1BS rule, but they still count as a Freeboota unit for the purposes of other models who do have the Kultur)

Is this true? Is the Gretchin rule that they don't GET the kultur? Or that they get the kultur, but just don't BENEFIT from the kultur? And would "being able to spread freeboota +1 goodness" count as a benefit?

tneva82 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

My friend tried a list in a very different vein, with Goff boyz mobs, a morkanaut with a KFF, and a max mob of Killa Kanz running alongside the boyz. The combination of grot shield onto the killa kanz and Loot It whenever a kan died made those boyz super durable, and he also ended up winning albeit a bit more pyrrhically.

Can you use grot shield on killa kans or did same reason that prevents clan bonus prevent it?

Also in some thread there was suggested using headbang spell with cp to blow up de raider calculating odds as 5+ with reroll but can't find thread. Anyway spell is over t so t5 you need to roll 6. Even with reroll 30.5% odds

Dont have the codex in front of me but I'm fairly sure it was identified that the beneficiary of the stratagem (the grot shielded unit) needs to be Ork Infantry, but the unit the wounds are passed off to just has to be Gretchin, it doesn't specify Gretchin Infantry. So to be clear he passed off anti infantry fire to the Kanz, which admittedly has the drawback of his kanz getting wounded as if they were T4, but they still had a nice 3+ save and as soon as one died, he used Loot It to make 30 of his boyz 5+ armor.

Again, since I didn't do this I can't say for certain whether he might have done it wrong and Grot Shields specified Gretchin Infantry, though checking 1d4chan's writeup it does say Ork Infantry and just Gretchin.

Iirc mek guns have clan tags, so you can make them freebooters and auto hit/kill something with opening salvo to have rest of army +1 to hit? Within 24” of course (Don’t think they get the bonus to hit themselves.. and if trakor kannons anyways... )



Question for y’all:

Hi friends, quick question thought some of ya more rules savvy players might know. I haven’t played in a while, so!

If I have a unit embarked in a wagon, I know I don’t get the benefit of mobile fortress, as they aren’t technically on the board. Similarly unit of gits in a wagon, wouldn’t get badrukk’s aura while both/either embarked...

If I have (an entire freebooter army) units of gits and bustas in transports, and anything with freebooter clan kills something within 24” of them while they are still embarked... do they get the +1 to hit or not as they aren’t technically on the board?

Thanks!


Now I’m pretty sure I won’t get the +1 as they aren’t on board but figured worth asking

 DaisyWondercow wrote:

the_scotsman 766225 10218228 wrote: (They don't benefit from the +1BS rule, but they still count as a Freeboota unit for the purposes of other models who do have the Kultur)

Is this true? Is the Gretchin rule that they don't GET the kultur? Or that they get the kultur, but just don't BENEFIT from the kultur? And would "being able to spread freeboota +1 goodness" count as a benefit?

They don#t get kultur but kultur uses key word freeboota that grots have. Think of it orks going "we aren't outdone by mere grots!"

 DaisyWondercow wrote:

the_scotsman 766225 10218228 wrote: (They don't benefit from the +1BS rule, but they still count as a Freeboota unit for the purposes of other models who do have the Kultur)

Is this true? Is the Gretchin rule that they don't GET the kultur? Or that they get the kultur, but just don't BENEFIT from the kultur? And would "being able to spread freeboota +1 goodness" count as a benefit?

They don't benefit from the Klan Culture rule, though they do have the <clan> tag.

This is how I read it as working:

I have a unit of Killa Kanz, and a unit of Flash Gitz, both with Freebootas as their <clan> tag. Since I am in a full freeboota detachment, the Flash Gitz gain the rule that says they get +1 to hit for the phase if another Freeboota unit within 24" destroys a unit. Since the Killa Kanz are a Freeboota unit, they trigger the rule in the Flash Gitz, but if the Flash Gitz were to destroy something, the Killa Kanz not having that rule would not gain a benefit.

There are plenty of rules that are dependent on another unit that does not share the same rule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

skyfi wrote:
Iirc mek guns have clan tags, so you can make them freebooters and auto hit/kill something with opening salvo to have rest of army +1 to hit? Within 24” of course (Don’t think they get the bonus to hit themselves.. and if trakor kannons anyways... )



Question for y’all:

Hi friends, quick question thought some of ya more rules savvy players might know. I haven’t played in a while, so!

If I have a unit embarked in a wagon, I know I don’t get the benefit of mobile fortress, as they aren’t technically on the board. Similarly unit of gits in a wagon, wouldn’t get badrukk’s aura while both/either embarked...

If I have (an entire freebooter army) units of gits and bustas in transports, and anything with freebooter clan kills something within 24” of them while they are still embarked... do they get the +1 to hit or not as they aren’t technically on the board?

Thanks!


Now I’m pretty sure I won’t get the +1 as they aren’t on board but figured worth asking

RAW, they would, because Open Topped is worded in such a way that any rules or modifiers applied to the transport apply to the occupants. Thats why battlewagons have to specify that the transport occupants don't benefit from mobile fortress (if that rule didnt exist, they would benefit from it).

the_scotsman wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

My friend tried a list in a very different vein, with Goff boyz mobs, a morkanaut with a KFF, and a max mob of Killa Kanz running alongside the boyz. The combination of grot shield onto the killa kanz and Loot It whenever a kan died made those boyz super durable, and he also ended up winning albeit a bit more pyrrhically.

Can you use grot shield on killa kans or did same reason that prevents clan bonus prevent it?

Also in some thread there was suggested using headbang spell with cp to blow up de raider calculating odds as 5+ with reroll but can't find thread. Anyway spell is over t so t5 you need to roll 6. Even with reroll 30.5% odds

Dont have the codex in front of me but I'm fairly sure it was identified that the beneficiary of the stratagem (the grot shielded unit) needs to be Ork Infantry, but the unit the wounds are passed off to just has to be Gretchin, it doesn't specify Gretchin Infantry. So to be clear he passed off anti infantry fire to the Kanz, which admittedly has the drawback of his kanz getting wounded as if they were T4, but they still had a nice 3+ save and as soon as one died, he used Loot It to make 30 of his boyz 5+ armor.

Again, since I didn't do this I can't say for certain whether he might have done it wrong and Grot Shields specified Gretchin Infantry, though checking 1d4chan's writeup it does say Ork Infantry and just Gretchin.

But the save is on unit being protected and on 2+ grot is killed. If you were using kan as screen it's on behind units save and each wound saved by kan would be dead killa kan...lascannon hits boy, 6 save doesn#t help. If lascannon causes 6 wounds roll 6 dice. 1 and ork dies, 2+ and kan dies. That's obviously not good. Better if you can transfer wounds from kan to grots but can it used for kans like that?

Btw grot screen suffers fast vs multiwound weapons...

tneva82 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

My friend tried a list in a very different vein, with Goff boyz mobs, a morkanaut with a KFF, and a max mob of Killa Kanz running alongside the boyz. The combination of grot shield onto the killa kanz and Loot It whenever a kan died made those boyz super durable, and he also ended up winning albeit a bit more pyrrhically.

Can you use grot shield on killa kans or did same reason that prevents clan bonus prevent it?

Also in some thread there was suggested using headbang spell with cp to blow up de raider calculating odds as 5+ with reroll but can't find thread. Anyway spell is over t so t5 you need to roll 6. Even with reroll 30.5% odds

Dont have the codex in front of me but I'm fairly sure it was identified that the beneficiary of the stratagem (the grot shielded unit) needs to be Ork Infantry, but the unit the wounds are passed off to just has to be Gretchin, it doesn't specify Gretchin Infantry. So to be clear he passed off anti infantry fire to the Kanz, which admittedly has the drawback of his kanz getting wounded as if they were T4, but they still had a nice 3+ save and as soon as one died, he used Loot It to make 30 of his boyz 5+ armor.

Again, since I didn't do this I can't say for certain whether he might have done it wrong and Grot Shields specified Gretchin Infantry, though checking 1d4chan's writeup it does say Ork Infantry and just Gretchin.

But the save is on unit being protected and on 2+ grot is killed. If you were using kan as screen it's on behind units save and each wound saved by kan would be dead killa kan...lascannon hits boy, 6 save doesn#t help. If lascannon causes 6 wounds roll 6 dice. 1 and ork dies, 2+ and kan dies. That's obviously not good. Better if you can transfer wounds from kan to grots but can it used for kans like that?

Btw grot screen suffers fast vs multiwound weapons...

ah, now I see where the confusion lies. Grot Screen says that when you LOSE A WOUND the gretchin unit LOSES THE WOUND instead on a 2+. I think the way my friend must have played it is when the unit TAKES A WOUND (ie, before the armor save) because he definitely said he was taking 3+ saves on the killa kanz. That was done wrong, and yeah, the strat is definitely no good on kanz.

the_scotsman wrote:

 DaisyWondercow wrote:

the_scotsman 766225 10218228 wrote: (They don't benefit from the +1BS rule, but they still count as a Freeboota unit for the purposes of other models who do have the Kultur)

Is this true? Is the Gretchin rule that they don't GET the kultur? Or that they get the kultur, but just don't BENEFIT from the kultur? And would "being able to spread freeboota +1 goodness" count as a benefit?

They don't benefit from the Klan Culture rule, though they do have the <clan> tag.

This is how I read it as working:

I have a unit of Killa Kanz, and a unit of Flash Gitz, both with Freebootas as their <clan> tag. Since I am in a full freeboota detachment, the Flash Gitz gain the rule that says they get +1 to hit for the phase if another Freeboota unit within 24" destroys a unit. Since the Killa Kanz are a Freeboota unit, they trigger the rule in the Flash Gitz, but if the Flash Gitz were to destroy something, the Killa Kanz not having that rule would not gain a benefit.

There are plenty of rules that are dependent on another unit that does not share the same rule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

skyfi wrote:
Iirc mek guns have clan tags, so you can make them freebooters and auto hit/kill something with opening salvo to have rest of army +1 to hit? Within 24” of course (Don’t think they get the bonus to hit themselves.. and if trakor kannons anyways... )



Question for y’all:

Hi friends, quick question thought some of ya more rules savvy players might know. I haven’t played in a while, so!

If I have a unit embarked in a wagon, I know I don’t get the benefit of mobile fortress, as they aren’t technically on the board. Similarly unit of gits in a wagon, wouldn’t get badrukk’s aura while both/either embarked...

If I have (an entire freebooter army) units of gits and bustas in transports, and anything with freebooter clan kills something within 24” of them while they are still embarked... do they get the +1 to hit or not as they aren’t technically on the board?

Thanks!


Now I’m pretty sure I won’t get the +1 as they aren’t on board but figured worth asking

RAW, they would, because Open Topped is worded in such a way that any rules or modifiers applied to the transport apply to the occupants. Thats why battlewagons have to specify that the transport occupants don't benefit from mobile fortress (if that rule didnt exist, they would benefit from it).

HUH??? I was really hoping I would get to use the +1 to hit while my pirates happily do drive by’s in boats... I was thinking I wouldn’t because of FAQ about the BW. I’m always so lost with the legal rules jargon when I come back from a break.

I just don’t wanna list build based on bad understanding of rules, but would like to make a way to make my full mechanized freebooters to work.

Was thinking trakror Cannons center of my deployment try and kill something first first, if not then shoot all trucks wagons and MSU trukk boys until something dies to trigger +1 to hit, then shoot with Flash gitz or tank bustas?

Im also having trouble rationalizing taking a waaagh banner nob with freebooters. I feel like it’s great if you run lots of Klaws, so you have +2 to hit with klaws if needed but I feel a lot will be swinging on 2+ in melee from just kulture, before applying the banner.. so maybe a waste? Maybe useful for fighting against negative modifiers to hit I suppose.

The freebooter morale banner seems neat for army wide morale save if you’re playing a MSU army? Not sure if I could take it and the fancy Klaw as well, maybe have to spend CP to take more than one iirc

What do people think are solid Big mek in mega armour loadouts??

the_scotsman wrote:
RAW, they would, because Open Topped is worded in such a way that any rules or modifiers applied to the transport apply to the occupants. Thats why battlewagons have to specify that the transport occupants don't benefit from mobile fortress (if that rule didnt exist, they would benefit from it).

hmm...just reading the battlewagon datasheet now, and I'm not actually seeing anything specifying that occupants don't benefit from Mobile Fortress...

Shinzra wrote:
People saying Orks will be low tier baffles me, every review available including front line gaming talks regarding the codex are all saying it will be a high/top tier book and overall the book is outstanding as a complete book.

Many just like to complain for the sake of it, you have a brand new dex, with some of the best internal balance shown in a codex, options galore, you can run any form of list and still do well.

Playtest the book first and get some games under your belts before going doom and gloom

Welcome to the internet, especially DakkaDakka when it comes to complaining first and reading later lol.

 ZoBo wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
RAW, they would, because Open Topped is worded in such a way that any rules or modifiers applied to the transport apply to the occupants. Thats why battlewagons have to specify that the transport occupants don't benefit from mobile fortress (if that rule didnt exist, they would benefit from it).

hmm...just reading the battlewagon datasheet now, and I'm not actually seeing anything specifying that occupants don't benefit from Mobile Fortress...

It's not in datasheet but faq

 ZoBo wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
RAW, they would, because Open Topped is worded in such a way that any rules or modifiers applied to the transport apply to the occupants. Thats why battlewagons have to specify that the transport occupants don't benefit from mobile fortress (if that rule didnt exist, they would benefit from it).

hmm...just reading the battlewagon datasheet now, and I'm not actually seeing anything specifying that occupants don't benefit from Mobile Fortress...

There was a FAQ for the index specifying that they don't. Considering how the rule didn't change at all, it's a safe bet that the FAQ will make a return for the codex. Then again, there is a compelling argument for why this is the case, since the mobile fortress is neither a modifier nor a restriction.

So I'm inclined to say that freebootas would indeed get +1 to hit from their clan trait, since it's without doubt a modifier, and those are conferred from open topped transports to their passengers.

the Index FAQ, yeah...this is the Codex though.

although, yeah, that is a good point Jidmah...ignoring the penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons, is indeed not a restriction or a modifier...bugger.

 flandarz wrote:
I'd probably take the Codex Kommandos over the Index ones. Even without Burnas, TBBs, Dakkax3, and bonus to Wound are tough to pass up.

Yea, 40 points for a melta bomber in cover with 4 ablative wounds? Yes please.

Codex Orks = Codex Meltabombs.

I think the grot shield strategem works this way.

For example, you have a meganob with 3 wounds. He's getting shot with a lazcannon.
First he's hit. Now he can use a strategem.
Than he's wounded.
Than he rolls 5+ armor.
Than a lazcannon rolls, say, 4 damage.
Meganob rolls 2+for every point of damage, getting, say, one 1.
He suffers a wound and 3 grots get killed.

So, this strategem has odd mechanics. Means that if you, for example, decide to use grot shields for regular boyz, multi-damage weapons have a potential of dealing much more harm than they'd usually do.

This same results for a lazcannon would have killed 3 grots along with the boy.

the_scotsman wrote:


ah, now I see where the confusion lies. Grot Screen says that when you LOSE A WOUND the gretchin unit LOSES THE WOUND instead on a 2+. I think the way my friend must have played it is when the unit TAKES A WOUND (ie, before the armor save) because he definitely said he was taking 3+ saves on the killa kanz. That was done wrong, and yeah, the strat is definitely no good on kanz.

Actually it\s worse than that. Model from screen is SLAIN. Now albeit it's moot point as killa kan can neither be protected(all gretchin unit cannot be protected) nor be screening(needs to be infantry) but if you WERE able to protect with kans...Well for every wound one killa kan, whether it has 1 or 100 wounds, would be SLAIN. So lascannon hits ork boy, causes wound, d6 results in 6 wounds. You roll 6 dice, all are 2+ so 6 killa kans would be killed...

But as that isn't possible(likely good. More likely this would end up hurting than being benefit to use kans as screen) there's that. However something to keep in mind is that multi wound weapons becomes rather annoying. Imagine the knight gatling cannon and let's say it causes 8 hits that wound. Without grot screen that would be 8 boyz dead. With grot screen you would roll 2 dice for 8 models. If you roll double 1...Well one ork suffers 2 wounds and dies very messily. If you roll 2 2+'s you lose 2 gretchin. If you roll 1 and 2+ you lose ork AND gretchin...

Lascannon also becomes surprisingly effective grot killer.

That sounds right, if the wording is loses a wound (i cant recall right now). Its similar to FNP mechanics where you have to roll a dice for every lost wound, not the attack

 koooaei wrote:
I think the grot shield strategem works this way.

For example, you have a meganob with 3 wounds. He's getting shot with a lazcannon.
First he's hit. Now he can use a strategem.
Than he's wounded.
Than he rolls 5+ armor.
Than a lazcannon rolls, say, 4 damage.
Meganob rolls 2+for every point of damage, getting, say, one 1.
He suffers a wound and 3 grots get killed.

So, this strategem has odd mechanics. Means that if you, for example, decide to use grot shields for regular boyz, multi-damage weapons have a potential of dealing much more harm than they'd usually do.

This same results for a lazcannon would have killed 3 grots along with the boy.

Yep 100% correct. Wonder if GW intended for that or will they FAQ for it to be different. As it is you can end up in situation where not only you lose models you were protecting(say lootas) with almost 1=1 speed AND lose extra grots for fun...