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Difference being those 3 grots are worth a LOT less than that MANz anyway.
I'd gladly lose the entire 10blob of grots than a manz.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Difference being those 3 grots are worth a LOT less than that MANz anyway.
I'd gladly lose the entire 10blob of grots than a manz.

Yup, each of those dead grots is worth far less than a wound on a MANz, Plus its not like you HAVE to put a wound on the grot even if you use the stratagem. Cant you opt to just eat the attack if you want?

Yes MAN are ones that are fairly safe from oddities but for example lootas you can end up both loota AND 1+ grots with fairly high frequency when before you would have lost just loota(or ork boy or whatever 1W model you are protecting) ie grot screen is nothing but disadvantage for you. That's bit weird.

(oh and another weird scenario though as grot needs to be within 6" of unit protecting but it's possible for grots to protect unit while being behind unit shooting That would be lulz moment)

The Grot Shield stratagem could be better but I think it's fine, just have to be mindful about which of your units you actually want to screen against different weapons. Losing multiple 'shield models' to multi-damage weapons is exactly how things like Tau drones should work, in my mind.

xlDuke wrote:
The Grot Shield stratagem could be better but I think it's fine, just have to be mindful about which of your units you actually want to screen against different weapons. Losing multiple 'shield models' to multi-damage weapons is exactly how things like Tau drones should work, in my mind.

Not saying it's bad strategem. Just a) something worth keeping in mind so you don't end up hurting yourself needlessly(it's not automatically good idea) b) don't cheat by using it like inv save rather than like FNP so that D2 weapon would only roll one 2+ etc. Easy mistake to make.

tneva82 wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
I think the grot shield strategem works this way.

For example, you have a meganob with 3 wounds. He's getting shot with a lazcannon.
First he's hit. Now he can use a strategem.
Than he's wounded.
Than he rolls 5+ armor.
Than a lazcannon rolls, say, 4 damage.
Meganob rolls 2+for every point of damage, getting, say, one 1.
He suffers a wound and 3 grots get killed.

So, this strategem has odd mechanics. Means that if you, for example, decide to use grot shields for regular boyz, multi-damage weapons have a potential of dealing much more harm than they'd usually do.

This same results for a lazcannon would have killed 3 grots along with the boy.

Yep 100% correct. Wonder if GW intended for that or will they FAQ for it to be different. As it is you can end up in situation where not only you lose models you were protecting(say lootas) with almost 1=1 speed AND lose extra grots for fun...

I hate to be a pedant about this, but you'd need your lootas to be getting shot with Damage 6 weapons to be losing them at 1:1 speed....if my opponent is leveling macro-cannons at my lootas, I won't bother with the grot shields...

Sure, it's not as good if you're getting shot with melta or plasma, but for protecting lootas/flashgitz/whatever against bolter fire, it's awesome.


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I am 99.% certain that unless GW changes it in an FAQ, a Freebootas unit inside an open topped transport does benefit from the Kultur if the unit triggering it is within range of the transport.

"Open Topped: Models embarked on this model can attack in their shooting phase.....when they do so, any restrictions or modifiers that apply to this model also apply to its passengers."

In my Codex: Harlequins, a beneficial rule (Rising Crescendo) is specifically called out as applying to the passengers, allowing them to shoot if the transport fell back.

As someone who's playing a lot of Eldar I'm sort of tempted to buy & try a Dakkajet. It's a cool model with real potential for character sniping. Hitting on 5+, 4+ because of all the dakka. Most likely throw the Long, uncontrolled burst stratagem on it as well to hit on 3+.

18 S6 AP-1 D1 shots hitting on 3+ seems pretty good for trying to delete those flying farseers and the like. Problem is that it might be cutting it a bit too close for comfort. Those guys are T4 W6 with a 4++.

18 shots, hitting on 3's are 12 hits, plus 2 more from dakkadakkadakka. 14 hits wounding on 3's nets you 9.25 wounds that are saved on a 4+ for a little more than 4.5 unsaved wounds. Meaning that smug bastard will most likely live through it. So unless you bank on getting lucky, do we have any real alternatives for "medium toughness" character sniping?

Edit: If you're a gambler the wazbom blastajet might get the job done. Especially with the tellyport mega-blastas I guess

tneva82 wrote:

geargutz wrote:
also, be carefull about how much you put in reserves. you need half your PL on the board as well as half you amount of units on the board..

Nope. After fall FAQ PL's have nothing to do with reserves. Instead it's now on points.


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 Rismonite wrote:
Should my Boomdakka Snazzwagon be Bad Moonz or Blood Axes :/

Army is going to be Planes Buggies Trukkbustas and like one squad of Bikes.

I'm thinking Bad Moon tankbustas and maybe make some of the quality dakka buggies and planes Deffskullz

Is it possible to make a list such that Bad Moon Tankbustas deploy inside Blood Axe or Deffskull Trukkz?

It's not got that many shots except in grenade range for bad moon to be really worth it and then you are in h2h range so blood axes could be better. One of the few things where blood axe is actually useful choise.

As for last question no. We aren't as smart as IG.


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 koooaei wrote:
I'm puting my money on the blob killing every single dread on overwatch one by one. Half the squad would certainly die in the process though.


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Has anyone tried a gunwagon and our new shooty biggies yet?

Foot slogging it wouldn't change much though except give him even more time to shoot at them so...Not sure how foot slogging is solution to the 10 hellblasters. Better solution would likely be mek gun spam yourself until they go down to level dreadnought can survive overwatch. As they hit on 6's it's not THAT many. 10 shooting is 20 shots. 30.5% hit chance with azrael and S8=4 wounds. D3 with strategem(btw was that for one shooting or for one phase? If one shooting 2nd dread would be safe)=12. So 4 overkill.

So you would need to kill 4+ to not die on average. 5 for safety.

First of all, 10 hellblasters with Azrael...on overwatch? Are you expecting him to overcharge the plasma?

You're already giving a 3% chance times the number of shots to slay a hellblaster. If you are popping the weapons of the dark age strat - again, on overwatch, for 1 CP, you can only do that once per turn.

If and only if they pop all the above, they can deal 9 wounds in overwatch on average. After that, the wounds drop by 50% from losing wotda

That's a 400 point unit btw that becomes neutralized by CC against a dread, except for Azrael.

100% worth pursuing that strategy.

tneva82 wrote:

xlDuke wrote:
The Grot Shield stratagem could be better but I think it's fine, just have to be mindful about which of your units you actually want to screen against different weapons. Losing multiple 'shield models' to multi-damage weapons is exactly how things like Tau drones should work, in my mind.

Not saying it's bad strategem. Just a) something worth keeping in mind so you don't end up hurting yourself needlessly(it's not automatically good idea) b) don't cheat by using it like inv save rather than like FNP so that D2 weapon would only roll one 2+ etc. Easy mistake to make.

Indeed. I've not got my codex yet but I've got the datacards and without paying much attention the first time I read the rule I interpreted it wrongly, so I'm glad that it was brought up in here.

Grot shield strat could EASILY be total trash
*glares at Killteam version*

Unrelated: how are people's views on our fliers? I havnt touched mine in so long they have a layer of dust on them. Bad Moon Dakkajets feel pretty decent on paper for 148pts (6 guns)
Burna Bomma other than Skorcha Missiles feels pretty good
Blitza Bomma im on the fence with
Absolutely no opinion on Wazbom as i never flew it before.

So how are the freebooters among us planning on making the most use of our klan kulture? It’s not the strongest, but getting +1 to hit for everyone within 24”... nothing to shake a stick at right?

Can keep our shooters protected in transports and huddle around a kff mek. Hoping for small units/mek guns to get killls before other shooters fire?


2 units of 10 gits looting, then mobbin up... 2+ In cover!! Or get back in a wagon.. use more Dakka on this unit.. 60 shots hitting on on 4’s; or 3’s if klan kulture is in effect.. and exploding dice on 5+! if they managed to shoot something then assault without counting as have moved the turn... what are they like 3A base? 2+ WS and s5? By far not the most Effecient use of points but it seems proppa flashy and orky


20 mobbed up gits with more Dakka shoot something... they roll a 6 for gun crazy show off.... then shoot again, do they still get more Dakka for this bonus shooting? I can’t recall but I think after the bonus shooting is done, they roll gun crazy show off again? Maybe I’m remembering wrong. Wanna say with index I had a game where I got to shoot 3x in one turn with my flash gits (rare I know, planets aligned or something )

 TedNugent wrote:


First of all, 10 hellblasters with Azrael...on overwatch? Are you expecting him to overcharge the plasma?

With dreadnought coming up, rerolling any 1's and averaging dead dreadnought with spare so 3 charging dreadnoughts of which first one would likely end up dead and others have decent shot as well...Yeah. After all if they get into combat that's dead hellblasters. Risk is better than certain death that getting 3 dreadnoughts in your face would be. If DA player ends up in situation where 3 dreadnoughts deep strike and assault them he's got nothing to lose.

You're already giving a 3% chance times the number of shots to slay a hellblaster. If you are popping the weapons of the dark age strat - again, on overwatch, for 1 CP, you can only do that once per turn.

If and only if they pop all the above, they can deal 9 wounds in overwatch on average. After that, the wounds drop by 50% from losing wotda

That's a 400 point unit btw that becomes neutralized by CC against a dread, except for Azrael.

100% worth pursuing that strategy.

30.5% hit chance with overwatch and Azrael, 3+ to wound, 3 damage=4 wounding hits=12 damage=8 more than dreadnought has. Without dark age 8 wounds in average so riskier. Either way that's risking 3 dreadnoughts dying all right away to overwatch while 10 evil sun boyz in first would accomplish same thing with just 4 dead boy. Wee! No point trying charge with just dreadnoughts.

I think the Freebooters Kultur is really strong. You dont have to use a Flashgit unit to generate that plus 1, you other stuff so you can maximise that Flash git rounds, Kaptins are always on a +1, and with the Kultur ability, they are on +2. That's Kaptins hitting on 2's, re-rolling 1's for Badrukk. The whole unit then generating more attacks on 5's and 6's is just ludicrous amounts of Dakka.

i thought Freebootas DID say the unit that killed another unit had to be a freeboota?

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i thought Freebootas DID say the unit that killed another unit had to be a freeboota?

It says it has to be a "unit with this kulture". Which I assume is every Ork in the army, so boyz with shootas, etc. Just minus the Mek Guns and Gretchen it seems.

I know there is such a thing as “too much of a good thing” which has me thinking again the waaagh banner maybe overkill with freebooters. Do we really need to pay for that? I’ve had the banner in for a while and gotten used to it but seeming like now he may not needed as much. Maybe if you have a large blob of manz or PK’s in general to help out. Idk.

Having mek guns, especially traktor kannons... just murder stuff each turn first so your other stuff gets a bonus... even having truck shoot first and kill last model from unit. Boom +1 to rest of army because a dumb trukk killed someone... figure having MSU is great with pirates and with the relic flag also... seems like ripe for MSU approach, long as you have a big fat unit or two still to use more Dakka or other foot stratagems on?

Figure having kannons or whatever mid field to project that 24” bubble to as much as board will be handy! All in all pretty excited about the freebooters, we actually have rules outside of just flash gits !! & they seem pretty decent.


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ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i thought Freebootas DID say the unit that killed another unit had to be a freeboota?

It says it has to be a "unit with this kulture". Which I assume is every Ork in the army, so boyz with shootas, etc. Just minus the Mek Guns and Gretchen it seems.

Right, so anything in army will be freebooter If ya pick that klan. Only the grots won’t have clan or benefit from the kulture. Mek guns I think, and Killa Kans are mixed units I think, and will have clan tag, so if they kill something they count as a freeboota to buff other units . But it’s not a two way street I think. If a freeboota unit killed something, mek guns and kans wouldn’t get +1 to hit because grots don’t get benefit of klan cultures (even though as a mixed unit they are a part of that culture, being a Grot prevents them from using its kulture abilty... I think :p

Yeah thats what i thought it was.
Cause i looked at it and wen t"dont think i care about flashgitz anymore"

skyfi wrote:
So how are the freebooters among us planning on making the most use of our klan kulture? It’s not the strongest, but getting +1 to hit for everyone within 24”... nothing to shake a stick at right?

Can keep our shooters protected in transports and huddle around a kff mek. Hoping for small units/mek guns to get killls before other shooters fire?


2 units of 10 gits looting, then mobbin up... 2+ In cover!! Or get back in a wagon.. use more Dakka on this unit.. 60 shots hitting on on 4’s; or 3’s if klan kulture is in effect.. and exploding dice on 5+! if they managed to shoot something then assault without counting as have moved the turn... what are they like 3A base? 2+ WS and s5? By far not the most Effecient use of points but it seems proppa flashy and orky


20 mobbed up gits with more Dakka shoot something... they roll a 6 for gun crazy show off.... then shoot again, do they still get more Dakka for this bonus shooting? I can’t recall but I think after the bonus shooting is done, they roll gun crazy show off again? Maybe I’m remembering wrong. Wanna say with index I had a game where I got to shoot 3x in one turn with my flash gits (rare I know, planets aligned or something )

My army has been fluffed as FreeBootas for a while, and I'm very excited about the crunch that we now have to back it up. My plan is to split my force into combo-generators vs combo-users. The generators are going to be a Burna Bomma, boosta blasta, and a trike (and maaaaybe a supa-skorcha big trakk?). They will be MSU hunters, able to reliably obliterate a chaff/screen unit, or even a small firing line. The combo-users are gonna be shoota boyz, bikes, flash gitz, lootas, SAG mek, tankbustas, and maaaaaybe a gork/morkanaut. If I can trigger the +1 to hit T1 shooting, I think the resulting damage boost will be enough to snowball through the rest of the fight.

It's all still hypothetical, but it'll be a blast to try.

skyfi wrote:
Right, so anything in army will be freebooter If ya pick that klan. Only the grots won’t have clan or benefit from the kulture. Mek guns I think, and Killa Kans are mixed units I think, and will have clan tag, so if they kill something they count as a freeboota to buff other units . But it’s not a two way street I think. If a freeboota unit killed something, mek guns and kans wouldn’t get +1 to hit because grots don’t get benefit of klan cultures (even though as a mixed unit they are a part of that culture, being a Grot prevents them from using its kulture abilty... I think :p

Grot thing just prevents from BENEFITTING. But they still have it. There's no mention anywhere they don't HAVE it. Only that they don't BENEFIT from it.


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BTW at least pre codex there was some ideas with more dakka strategem and idea that it would somehow with units that have +X to hit more shots from say 3+(with +2 to hit). Doesn't work as the strategem indeed says unmodified 5 or 6. Not sure was this already picked up.

Yeah Grots still have the kulture because theres a handful of other things that wouldnt work on them otherwise.
Practically everything is <clan> tagged for the effect. If they didnt even have the tag they couldnt benefit from that non-kulture ability.

So it turns out Tankbusta nobz can't have power klaws anymore.
Well gak, looks like I'm going to have to maim one of my models just because the tankbusta kit doesn't have a power klaw in there

People need to stop equating klans and kulturs. <CLAN> is a pick-your-faction keyword that, to my knowledge, every unit in the Ork codex has (with a few being locked in). Kulturs are special rules that apply to models with a certain choice of faction under certain conditions, of which one is "not being a unit composed entirely of grots".

 Jidmah wrote:

Vermine wrote:
Hey Guys, Can you purposefully Crash a Burna Bomber for that sweet 6'' 3 Mortal Wounds ?

(Lets say by finishing its course on a unit)

Nope. It's more like a defense mechanism. Park the bommer near the core of the enemy army and keep pointing out how many mortal wounds it will deal when destroyed and how you can re-roll that 4+ with CP to make sure it explodes. Re-rollable 2++ is nothing compared to that


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Random thoughts: You can have quad-KMB dread for 91 points now.

I think you could. Turn 1 fly it right into the corner somewhere where it's near a unit and where a 90 degree turn +20" can't land on the board. It should crash and burn in this example.

Not super tactics related but this is where a lot of the discussion is....

Bonebreakers are obviously great, but does anyone have good alternatives/conversion ideas for deff rollas? I have 4 BWs but no deff rollas and dont feel like shelling out $20 per. Any thoughts?


Also any alternatives for mek gunz besides the 1+1=4 conversion?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
People need to stop equating klans and kulturs. <CLAN> is a pick-your-faction keyword that, to my knowledge, every unit in the Ork codex has (with a few being locked in). Kulturs are special rules that apply to models with a certain choice of faction under certain conditions, of which one is "not being a unit composed entirely of grots".

The rule you said means cannot BENEFIT. Quote text that says gretchins don't HAVE it. The rule you quote says they don't BENEFIT. Not...one...word...about...not...having...it.

 Billagio wrote:
Not super tactics related but this is where a lot of the discussion is....

Bonebreakers are obviously great, but does anyone have good alternatives/conversion ideas for deff rollas? I have 4 BWs but no deff rollas and dont feel like shelling out $20 per. Any thoughts?


Also any alternatives for mek gunz besides the 1+1=4 conversion?

Mek Gun: I mounted the Big Gunz that came with the battlewagon kit up on various custom built mountings. Originally ran them as significantly larger than they should be Big Gunz, but swapped them to the larger Mek Gunz when those came out. I just used random leftover vehicle panels, bits of terrain, etc.

Deffrolla: Well, if you happen to play Genestealer Cult, just buy some extra Goliath Trucks and the whole dozer blade is a separate piece. If you don't play GSC a Goliath would probably make an excellent proxy for a Trukk or one of the new buggies. I'd definitely buy a flamethrower/autocannon Goliath trukk as a Kustom Boosta Blasta for example.

 Billagio wrote:
Not super tactics related but this is where a lot of the discussion is....

Bonebreakers are obviously great, but does anyone have good alternatives/conversion ideas for deff rollas? I have 4 BWs but no deff rollas and dont feel like shelling out $20 per. Any thoughts?


Also any alternatives for mek gunz besides the 1+1=4 conversion?

Would suggest scratch building rollas out of junk/plastic. Should be a relatively easy build, plus they could al be unique as Orks should be imho

skyfi wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
Not super tactics related but this is where a lot of the discussion is....

Bonebreakers are obviously great, but does anyone have good alternatives/conversion ideas for deff rollas? I have 4 BWs but no deff rollas and dont feel like shelling out $20 per. Any thoughts?


Also any alternatives for mek gunz besides the 1+1=4 conversion?

Would suggest scratch building rollas out of junk/plastic. Should be a relatively easy build, plus they could al be unique as Orks should be imho

Yeah I was thinking that, just dont really have much experience scratch building so im not sure how to go about it. Plasticard?


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the_scotsman wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
Not super tactics related but this is where a lot of the discussion is....

Bonebreakers are obviously great, but does anyone have good alternatives/conversion ideas for deff rollas? I have 4 BWs but no deff rollas and dont feel like shelling out $20 per. Any thoughts?


Also any alternatives for mek gunz besides the 1+1=4 conversion?

Mek Gun: I mounted the Big Gunz that came with the battlewagon kit up on various custom built mountings. Originally ran them as significantly larger than they should be Big Gunz, but swapped them to the larger Mek Gunz when those came out. I just used random leftover vehicle panels, bits of terrain, etc.

Deffrolla: Well, if you happen to play Genestealer Cult, just buy some extra Goliath Trucks and the whole dozer blade is a separate piece. If you don't play GSC a Goliath would probably make an excellent proxy for a Trukk or one of the new buggies. I'd definitely buy a flamethrower/autocannon Goliath trukk as a Kustom Boosta Blasta for example.

Hmmm, the Goliath idea doesnt sound too bad. Get a trukk and deff rolla out of it.

tneva82 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
People need to stop equating klans and kulturs. <CLAN> is a pick-your-faction keyword that, to my knowledge, every unit in the Ork codex has (with a few being locked in). Kulturs are special rules that apply to models with a certain choice of faction under certain conditions, of which one is "not being a unit composed entirely of grots".

The rule you said means cannot BENEFIT. Quote text that says gretchins don't HAVE it. The rule you quote says they don't BENEFIT. Not...one...word...about...not...having...it.

As I see it this is correct - but expect it will be FAQed.

Eh - actually on re-reading strictly speaking no because its not an "Ork" unit, so no Kulture.

I expect it will be clarified in FAQ anyway.

Actually re- re-reading it, they are an Ork unit. So they do.

.... What a mess.

tneva82 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
People need to stop equating klans and kulturs. <CLAN> is a pick-your-faction keyword that, to my knowledge, every unit in the Ork codex has (with a few being locked in). Kulturs are special rules that apply to models with a certain choice of faction under certain conditions, of which one is "not being a unit composed entirely of grots".

The rule you said means cannot BENEFIT. Quote text that says gretchins don't HAVE it. The rule you quote says they don't BENEFIT. Not...one...word...about...not...having...it.

Can you explain the functional difference between what I said and what you said?