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I’m all about 1 klaw and 3 saws... the upgrade from saw to klaw isn’t that big of a jump for 1 atk for 5pts.

I have a hard enough time getting points to give nobs big choppas which is a bigger upgrade.

15% total price increase (100 for 1Klaw3Saw vs 115 for 4Klaw) for +1AP, and +1Damage (50% increase in both stats). I mean technically the Klaw is 50% more expensive as a weapon than the Saw, but when viewing the entire models final price..

I guess it comes down to what you're likely to be fighting - fighting vehicles, its probably worth it to upgrade; but against Terminators/other 2w models, you could keep the Saws.

fe40k wrote:
15% total price increase (100 for 1Klaw3Saw vs 115 for 4Klaw) for +1AP, and +1Damage (50% increase in both stats). I mean technically the Klaw is 50% more expensive as a weapon than the Saw, but when viewing the entire models final price..

I guess it comes down to what you're likely to be fighting - fighting vehicles, its probably worth it to upgrade; but against Terminators/other 2w models, you could keep the Saws.

What your writing is subjective I can say the same about upgrading a nob from nothing to a big choppa.
If the choice is between 1 atk gaining -1ap and +1dam to klaw upgrade or giving a nob a big choppa for 3 atks at -1ap, +1 dam and +2 str which is a better use of 5 pts? I’m not saying it’s a bad use of 5pts... but those 5pts have a lot of use for orks. As a practical example this is my list. Do I take away a big choppa to give a deffdread another klaw? (To be fair I actually might since although my dreads arms are magnetized I don’t think I have 6 saw arms.)

++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Orks) [141 PL, 2000pts] ++

Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz

+ HQ +

Deffkilla Wartrike [6 PL, 120pts]: Brutal but Kunnin, Snagga Klaw,
Warlord-Brutal but Kunnin(reroll hit;+1 dam trait)

Warboss on Warbike (index) [5 PL, 91pts]: Big Choppa, Headwoppa's Killchoppa

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 2. Warpath, 3. Da Jump, Warphead (1 CP)

Zhadsnark Da Ripper [7 PL, 120pts]
. Da Beast: 2x Big Shoota

+ Troops +

Boyz [11 PL, 175pts]: 2x Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Choppa & Slugga
. 24x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Boyz [4 PL, 70pts]: 9x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa, Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Choppa & Slugga

Boyz [11 PL, 180pts]: 2x Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa & Slugga
. 24x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

+ Elites +

Kommandos [4 PL, 45pts]: Tankbusta Bombs
. 2x Kommando
. Kommando Nob W/ Big Choppa & Slugga
. Kommando W/ 'Eavy Weapon (Index): Burna
. Kommando W/ 'Eavy Weapon (Index): Burna

Kommandos [4 PL, 45pts]: Tankbusta Bombs
. 2x Kommando
. Kommando Nob W/ Big Choppa & Slugga
. Kommando W/ 'Eavy Weapon (Index): Burna
. Kommando W/ 'Eavy Weapon (Index): Burna

Painboy on Warbike (Index) [6 PL, 103pts]: Da Killa Klaw, Power Klaw

+ Fast Attack +

Megatrukk Scrapjet [16 PL, 110pts]
. Megatrukk Scrapjet: 2x Twin Big Shoota

Megatrukk Scrapjet [16 PL, 110pts]
. Megatrukk Scrapjet: 2x Twin Big Shoota

Megatrukk Scrapjet [16 PL, 110pts]
. Megatrukk Scrapjet: 2x Twin Big Shoota

+ Heavy Support +

Deff Dread [11 PL, 200pts]
. Deff Dread: Dread Klaw, Dread Saw, Dread Saw, Dread Saw
. Deff Dread: Dread Klaw, Dread Saw, Dread Saw, Dread Saw

Mek Gunz [6 PL, 93pts]
. Gun: Smasha Gun
. Gun: Smasha Gun
. Gun: Smasha Gun

Meka-Dread [12 PL, 276pts]: Kustom Force Field
. Rattler kannon+ Rippa Klaw

++ Total: [141 PL, 2000pts] ++

daismith906 wrote:
Always wanted to do a defwing style lost back in the day

Is it a viable option now with this codex?

Better than the Dark Angels codex.

Death Skulls can get objective secured meganobs.

Their biggest downside is their clownish slowness. Evil sunz make up for this by making deep striking them viable, as well as making them faster than terminators due to their +1 to run and +1 to charge.

So evil sunz makes arguably the best meganobz, but death skulls MANz have objective secured - eg you could make a true Deffwing list composed entirely of Mega Armor, provided a few grots to fill out mandatory troops choices.

How are Meganobz this time around?

fe40k wrote:
How are Meganobz this time around?

The points drop helped them out quite a bit, now you can strap some killsaws on them and you'll have a pretty scary melee unit provided you have a way to get them into combat.

Guys I need some input.
I'm Debating on who has the best Tankbustas?

- Snakebite with their +1 to Wound?

- Bad Moonz Shooting Twice?

- Death Skullz for Re-Roll To Wound, Objective Secured and Reroll 1 Dmg dice on a Bomb Squig/Tankbusta Bomb

 Javadog wrote:

fe40k wrote:
How are Meganobz this time around?

The points drop helped them out quite a bit, now you can strap some killsaws on them and you'll have a pretty scary melee unit provided you have a way to get them into combat.

Do you feel that +1A and +1AP is worth 7 points (~+23% increase)? You get a flat D2, instead of Dd3, which is a sidetrade depending how lucky you feel.

You also lost 4 KustomShoota shots per MegaNob; but given the targets you're hunting, that's really a wash.

Edit: My gut feeling is that BadMoonz is probably best for Tankbustas, just because of More Dakka+Shoot Twice; that said, re-rolling to wounds is real solid. I'll have to math it up in a little bit.

Vermine wrote:
Guys I need some input.
I'm Debating on who has the best Tankbustas?

- Snakebite with their +1 to Wound?

- Bad Moonz Shooting Twice?

- Death Skullz for Re-Roll To Wound, Objective Secured and Reroll 1 Dmg dice on a Bomb Squig/Tankbusta Bomb

Bad moons. 2xshots better than reroll wounds. Also reroll 1's if you need to shoot non vehicles.

I am sure this was discussed but I couldn't find it.

When using Unstoppable Green Tide on Skarboyz or Ardboyz, do they come back with their buffs? I know some armies (nids) only regen the base versions of their troops. Is that listed such in their rules?

 JimOnMars wrote:
I am sure this was discussed but I couldn't find it.

When using Unstoppable Green Tide on Skarboyz or Ardboyz, do they come back with their buffs? I know some armies (nids) only regen the base versions of their troops. Is that listed such in their rules?

We'll see in the FAQ - but, based on the wording on 1d4Chan; I'd say they're coming back with their buffs.
You're not creating a new unit, you're redeploying the same unit, and "healing" the dead models.
Of course, the proper way to play it is to use the interpretation that least benefits you; until we get a defined ruling - which is to say, they don't come back with buffs.

If the Tyranid version works differently, I'm leaning towards that's how they'll rule it...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tankbusta math:
vs T8, 3+

15 models
INITIAL
15*0.333 = 4.995 Initial hits
10.005*0.333 = 3.332 misses converted to hits
[4.995+3.332*0.5= 4.164 DDD attacks]
8.327*0.5 = 4.164 wounds
4.164*0.666 = 2.773 failed armor saves
2.773*3 = 8.319 INITIAL damage
DDD
4.164*0.333 = 1.387 hits
2.777*0.333 = 0.925 misses converted to hits
2.312*0.5 = 1.156 wounds
1.156*0.666 = 0.77 failed armor saves
0.77*3 = 2.31 DDD damage

= (8.319+2.31) = 10.629 average damage, INITIAL + DDD total

Deathskulls; 2cp - "Wreckers"
[[4.164*0.5 = 2.082 missed wounds converted to wounds; Deathskulls]]
[[2.082*0.666 = 1.387 extra failed armor saves; Deathskulls]]
[[1.387*3 = 4.161 extra damage; Deathskulls]]
[[1.156*0.5 = 0.587 missed wounds converted to wounds; DDD, Deathskulls]]
[[0.587*0.666 = 0.391 extra failed armor saves; DDD, Deathskulls]]
[[0.391*3 = 1.173 extra damage; DDD, Deathskulls]]
= (8.319+2.31)+(4.161+1.173) = 15.963 average damage ; "Wreckers" (2cp)
= (15.963)+(2.31+1.173) = 19.446 ; "Wreckers"+"More Dakka" (4cp)

Bad Moonz; 2cp - "Showin' Off"
x2 to INITIAL + DDD numbers
= (8.319+2.31)+(8.319+2.31) = 21.258 average damage ; "Showin' Off" (2cp)
= (21.258)+(2.31+2.31) = 25.878 average damage ; "Showin' Off"+"More Dakka" (4cp)

TLDR ; BadMoonz >> Deathskullz Tankbustas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Is the “Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun” it’s own entry in the codex?
This means you could technically run 6 Big Meks with Shokk Attack Guns (3 codex entry, 3 index Big Mek (equipping SAG)?
Edit: It is - so, 6xSAG is possible. The real question is; is it good? Probably not - but it could be fun.
Edit2: 9 SAG is possible... 3 BigMek w/SAG (codex), 3 Big Mek (index), 3 Big Mek On Warbiker (index).

fe40k wrote:
Of course, the proper way to play it is to use the interpretation that least benefits you;

A true gentleman. I'll play you anytime.

fe40k wrote:

 Javadog wrote:

fe40k wrote:
How are Meganobz this time around?

The points drop helped them out quite a bit, now you can strap some killsaws on them and you'll have a pretty scary melee unit provided you have a way to get them into combat.

Do you feel that +1A and +1AP is worth 7 points (~+23% increase)? You get a flat D2, instead of Dd3, which is a sidetrade depending how lucky you feel.

You also lost 4 KustomShoota shots per MegaNob; but given the targets you're hunting, that's really a wash.

Edit: My gut feeling is that BadMoonz is probably best for Tankbustas, just because of More Dakka+Shoot Twice; that said, re-rolling to wounds is real solid. I'll have to math it up in a little bit.

I think it's worth it. Personally I like D2 better than Dd3 because when you're up against 2 wound models, it's nice to know that you can drop them with 1 failed save each instead of getting unlucky with a 1 and leaving them standing. I also don't mind the loss of shootas because I use them for the sole purpose of being a scary melee unit that ties things up until they die, they wouldn't get much out of their shooting anyway if I gave them the shootas. That's just my two cents of course, I'm not really a competitive 40k player.

As for tankbustas, there's more to it than just damage output with strategems.

Deffskullz are better when used in min squads. For example, when you need to fill up a new derachment and you're short on pts. Happens all the time. Besides, if you're a bomb squig fan,
Deffskull rerolling damage is huge for d6 damage squigs.

Deffskull and snakebite trukks are better than badmoon trukk.

Deffskull tankbustas are better when you're out of cp.

So, keep this in mind as it might outweigh the pure damage increase of shooting twice.

Outrider of Dragstas/Scrapjets - are they better as Deffskulls or Bad Moonz?

 koooaei wrote:
As for tankbustas, there's more to it than just damage output with strategems.

Deffskullz are better when used in min squads. For example, when you need to fill up a new derachment and you're short on pts. Happens all the time. Besides, if you're a bomb squig fan,
Deffskull rerolling damage is huge for d6 damage squigs.

Deffskull and snakebite trukks are better than badmoon trukk.

Deffskull tankbustas are better when you're out of cp.

So, keep this in mind as it might outweigh the pure damage increase of shooting twice.

You want to be filling up battallions which don't have elite as requirement. Indeed for orks the elite detachment is about least useful.

And for non-pure damage howabout ability to blow up 2 units rather than 1 with help of showoff? That's waaaay bigger than filling crappy vanquard detachment.

How good is a Shokk Attack gun? I hear they’re decent on a Deathskulls Big Mek? - I understand I’m reality they’re super random.

I just saw it was possible to take 9 (3 BMw/SAG (codex), BM (index), BMw/WARBIKE (index).

It’s total cheese (even moreso outside of a tournament setting), and not likely to be great - but, it begs the question; how many SAGs are fine to run, before you start handicapping yourself by taking them?

In reality, 0 is probably the right number.

karandrasss wrote:
Outrider of Dragstas/Scrapjets - are they better as Deffskulls or Bad Moonz?

Low number of high S/AP/dam shots=death skulls.

If you roll 6 dice you have good chance(but not even quaranteed) or one 1 for bad moon reroll. Death skull tops that. Lone dragsta/scrapjet is also not worth it for strategem so neither clans strategems are of concern. Ergo go for the one that's 1 QUARANTEED reroll to hit(so you are rerolling more often than say 6 shot bad moon...) and also rerolls to wound and damage rolls.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

fe40k wrote:
How good is a Shokk Attack gun? I hear they’re decent on a Deathskulls Big Mek? - I understand I’m reality they’re super random.

I just saw it was possible to take 9 (3 BMw/SAG (codex), BM (index), BMw/WARBIKE (index).

It’s total cheese (moreso outside of a tournament setting), and not likely to be great - but, it begs the question; how many SAGs are fine to run, before you start handicapping yourself by taking them?

In reality, 0 is probably the right number.

If 0 is probably right number then how you call it cheese?-) Cheese=overbroken stuff. If it's cheese then 9 would be correct number.

Still confused about the Mek Gunz crew, who (codex p105) have no stats and cannot be targeted or attacked separately or used to measure from and so apparently have zero game effect - does this mean they're purely decorative and don't even need to be placed on the table? (OK, they're mildly useful as wound counters for the gunz' 6 wounds, but a dice could do that.)

Can any Rules Lawyers think of a case where the number of crew models could matter?

(Yes, I'm planning some gunz conversions and wondering how many crew I need to rustle up )

 Clang wrote:
Still confused about the Mek Gunz crew, who (codex p105) have no stats and cannot be targeted or attacked separately or used to measure from and so apparently have zero game effect - does this mean they're purely decorative and don't even need to be placed on the table? (OK, they're mildly useful as wound counters for the gunz' 6 wounds, but a dice could do that.)

Can any Rules Lawyers think of a case where the number of crew models could matter?

(Yes, I'm planning some gunz conversions and wondering how many crew I need to rustle up )

Looking at the datasheet, I don't see any difference between them and the techmarine for thunderfire or the crew for a rapier battery. That is to say, it appears they can be killed on their own and they need to be present for the mek gun to be fired.

 Clang wrote:
Still confused about the Mek Gunz crew, who (codex p105) have no stats and cannot be targeted or attacked separately or used to measure from and so apparently have zero game effect - does this mean they're purely decorative and don't even need to be placed on the table? (OK, they're mildly useful as wound counters for the gunz' 6 wounds, but a dice could do that.)

Can any Rules Lawyers think of a case where the number of crew models could matter?

(Yes, I'm planning some gunz conversions and wondering how many crew I need to rustle up )

They have exactly one purpose rulewise: Bulk up space the model take in total and silhouette. Gun+5 crew=more space taken than just gun. Which means easier to draw LOS to/from and harder to cram up lots of them in small area so leaving out will expose yourself to MFA accusations.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cole1114 wrote:

 Clang wrote:
Still confused about the Mek Gunz crew, who (codex p105) have no stats and cannot be targeted or attacked separately or used to measure from and so apparently have zero game effect - does this mean they're purely decorative and don't even need to be placed on the table? (OK, they're mildly useful as wound counters for the gunz' 6 wounds, but a dice could do that.)

Can any Rules Lawyers think of a case where the number of crew models could matter?

(Yes, I'm planning some gunz conversions and wondering how many crew I need to rustle up )

Looking at the datasheet, I don't see any difference between them and the techmarine for thunderfire or the crew for a rapier battery. That is to say, it appears they can be killed on their own and they need to be present for the mek gun to be fired.

How can they be killed? They aren't separate units. It's one model unit with 6 wounds. You don't remove any of them for each wound any more than you remove parts of rhino when rhino is wounded!

 cole1114 wrote:

 Clang wrote:
Still confused about the Mek Gunz crew, who (codex p105) have no stats and cannot be targeted or attacked separately or used to measure from and so apparently have zero game effect - does this mean they're purely decorative and don't even need to be placed on the table? (OK, they're mildly useful as wound counters for the gunz' 6 wounds, but a dice could do that.)

Can any Rules Lawyers think of a case where the number of crew models could matter?

(Yes, I'm planning some gunz conversions and wondering how many crew I need to rustle up )

Looking at the datasheet, I don't see any difference between them and the techmarine for thunderfire or the crew for a rapier battery. That is to say, it appears they can be killed on their own and they need to be present for the mek gun to be fired.

But how can they be killed separately if they don't have a stats line? Also, "Each Mek Gun and its grot krew are treated as a single model for all rules purposes."

MekGunz crew are there to take up space on the table.

There’s a YMDC thread discussing this - the rules allow you to cheese with placement (see thread); but, that’s taking the rules to the extreme.

They’re more than just eye candy, they’re 5 small bases that need to be accounted for when placing the model; especially when you deploy a battery of Mek Gunz near each other. 1MekGun+5GrotKrew function ENTIRELY as ONE model. For all purposes; moving, shooting, being assaulted, etc - hitting one model counts as hitting all of them.

Be careful when trying to move them; movement is real wonky, since the combined movement of the 6 bases can not exceed the MOV stat.

The FAQ should make the rules clearer all around.

fe40k wrote:
MekGunz crew are there to take up space on the table.

There’s a YMDC thread discussing this - the rules allow you to cheese with placement (see thread); but, that’s taking the rules to the extreme.

They’re more than just eye candy, they’re 5 small bases that need to be accounted for when placing the model; especially when you deploy a battery of Mek Gunz near each other. 1MekGun+5GrotKrew function ENTIRELY as ONE model. For all purposes; moving, shooting, being assaulted, etc - hitting one model counts as hitting all of them.

Be careful when trying to move them; movement is real wonky, since the combined movement of the 6 bases can not exceed the MOV stat.

The FAQ should make the rules clearer all around.

GW wording a rule badly? - surely not Found the YMDC thread, and yes, pedants can and have interpreted this rule half a dozen different ways :( I can see your interpretation re being attacked, perhaps, but the rule explicitly says the krew have no effect on shooting. RAW is ambiguous, and I honestly can't tell exactly what's RAI - yes, hopefully the FAQ will be a bit clearer...

The intent of the Grot crew is pretty clear RAI. I don't really give a Snotling's a** about however which way you can bend the rules when you start digging into it. If you are placing the Grots anywhere else than within 1" of the actual GUN model you're TFG.

I think rules wise they are a single model that happens to have gaps in it, and enemies can trace LOS and range to grots same as they can to a dozer blade or a wing. Sole exception is that you trace LOS from the physical Mek Gun when shooting it.

I updated my battlescribe recently and are my eyes deceiving me, or did they miss out Runtherds completely?

 Wunzlez wrote:
I updated my battlescribe recently and are my eyes deceiving me, or did they miss out Runtherds completely?

For me it's in no force org slot part. Dunno why.

tneva82 wrote:

 Wunzlez wrote:
I updated my battlescribe recently and are my eyes deceiving me, or did they miss out Runtherds completely?

For me it's in no force org slot part. Dunno why.

Probably because they don't take a force organization slot if your army includes Gretchin.

 koooaei wrote:
As for tankbustas, there's more to it than just damage output with strategems.

Deffskullz are better when used in min squads. For example, when you need to fill up a new derachment and you're short on pts. Happens all the time. Besides, if you're a bomb squig fan,
Deffskull rerolling damage is huge for d6 damage squigs.

Deffskull and snakebite trukks are better than badmoon trukk.

Deffskull tankbustas are better when you're out of cp.

So, keep this in mind as it might outweigh the pure damage increase of shooting twice.

Bad Moons tankbustas also get the re-roll of 1s when targeting something different than vehicle, which is better than nothing. And usually units like tankbustas work very well for 1-2 turns, then they are deleted or orks have already won the game and they don't matter anymore.