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Coh Magnussen wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Skrapjet would be king, then the shokkjump dragsta. HQ one is decent but not spammable for 3.

Thanks! I'm having a hard time coming up with a reasonable way to model these as a skrapjet, but SJD is for sure doable.

Huh? Some sort of ramming thing to the front and missiles should do the trick?

Coh Magnussen wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Skrapjet would be king, then the shokkjump dragsta. HQ one is decent but not spammable for 3.

Thanks! I'm having a hard time coming up with a reasonable way to model these as a skrapjet, but SJD is for sure doable.

Ive converted up 2 squig buggies as scrapjets. Add tracks at the back, add all the weapons that are required.

Hey guys am I the only one that doesn't have LoW options on Battlescribe? Can't see Stompa or Kill Tanks anywhere.

Also does the Freebooter ability stack. For example, I have three squads of Flash Gitz. First squad kills a unit, the next two get +1 BS. The second unit also kills a unit, does the third unit get an additional +1 (giving that squad +2 BS)?

 Elfric wrote:
Hey guys am I the only one that doesn't have LoW options on Battlescribe? Can't see Stompa or Kill Tanks anywhere.

Also does the Freebooter ability stack. For example, I have three squads of Flash Gitz. First squad kills a unit, the next two get +1 BS. The second unit also kills a unit, does the third unit get an additional +1 (giving that squad +2 BS)?

You need to select detachment that has super heavies(so super heavy detachment, auxiliary or supreme commander).

And no stacking I think

 JimOnMars wrote:
I am sure this was discussed but I couldn't find it.

When using Unstoppable Green Tide on Skarboyz or Ardboyz, do they come back with their buffs? I know some armies (nids) only regen the base versions of their troops. Is that listed such in their rules?

I would assume they would.. But per the FAQ whatever status effects they have when they removed from the battlefield are wiped clean. This came up against GSC where he hit my skarboyz with mass hypnosis. Brought them down to 7-8 models. I used unstoppable green tide. They are removed and set-up again, so mass hypnosis went away. I then realized you cant warpath and then da jump.. because the +1 attack would be lost when I re-set them up.

Da Jump is not a strategem.

 Oguhmek wrote:
Da Jump is not a strategem.

Well Thats why I said I WOULD ASSUME THAT'S HOW IT WOULD WORK. I then used an example of using a strat to perform a similar action and provided the evidence. So thanks...?

 Oguhmek wrote:
Da Jump is not a strategem.

Then comes q how spell and strategedm mith identical wordings diffeir. I would not count for it


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Darn realized problem with flash git idea. No strategem in vehicle so no more dakka to compensate moving. And grot scveen iirc didn't have specialflash git excemption so iwould need freeboota grots to cover flash gits.

Damn

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
I am sure this was discussed but I couldn't find it.

When using Unstoppable Green Tide on Skarboyz or Ardboyz, do they come back with their buffs? I know some armies (nids) only regen the base versions of their troops. Is that listed such in their rules?

I would assume they would.. But per the FAQ whatever status effects they have when they removed from the battlefield are wiped clean. This came up against GSC where he hit my skarboyz with mass hypnosis. Brought them down to 7-8 models. I used unstoppable green tide. They are removed and set-up again, so mass hypnosis went away. I then realized you cant warpath and then da jump.. because the +1 attack would be lost when I re-set them up.

We already had this argument months ago. Da Jump is not a stratagem and thus not affected by this FAQ. This FAQ is referring to stratagems like "Endless Green Tide" that remove and replace the unit. A unit that is Warpathed and then Endless Green Tided will lose Warpath for sure, but not if it is Da Jumped.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone else had success with the Boomwagon? For only 100 points it seems to put out a lot of dakka and can harass enemies pretty effectively.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Anyone else had success with the Boomwagon? For only 100 points it seems to put out a lot of dakka and can harass enemies pretty effectively.

I'm guessing you mean the Boomdakka Snazzwagon. It's been discussed back and forth. Jidmah did a comparison between it and the KBB a few pages back and it didn't look great. I myself am a big fan of the model but not a fan of the rules. It does have the nice little benefit of being hard to hit but I'm not sure (other than liking the model or dislike running duplicates) why you'd take it over dakkajets, KBBs or warbikers.

I'd love to hear success stories from it though

i wish it was effective because it looks great.
Its the cheapest buggy, since the Scrapjet has a 20pt bigshoota tax so its actually 110, but it has virtually no attack power by comparison.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i wish it was effective because it looks great.
Its the cheapest buggy, since the Scrapjet has a 20pt bigshoota tax so its actually 110, but it has virtually no attack power by comparison.

The KBB is also 100 points though. Making it all round a bit more attractive

Got another chance to test out a couple of builds this weekend. I had a somewhat more competitive game at 2k and a less competitive game at 2.5k to play around with.

for the non-competitive game I took the opportunity to run every buggy as itself, playing against a full Primaris space marine army my buddy had. The Wazbomb Blastajet, Megatrakk Skrapjet and Shokkjump Dragsta came up big in those games, especially with the Freeboota Kultur boosting them up. I was using two Trakktors and a fully loaded grot mega tank with 7x rokkits to finish off a unit and trigger the kultur, and then I used Long Uncontrolled Bursts a couple times on top of it for some seriously goofy ork ballistic skill.

For the more competitive game, I trimmed out the fat, ran the following list:



The less competitive game doesn't really matter, I did win, but it was just kind of a goofy battle anyway. The highlights were the Squigbuggy miraculously managing to make its points back by landing a miracle volley of bitey squigs on a unit of plasma inceptors and wiping them, and the Defkilla shooting past a gap in the lines with Fists of Gork and smashing a Chapter Master and a Chaplain in one round with Orks is Never Beaten.

For the competitive game I was up against a slightly toned-down version of the standard knight soup list. He had instead of a castellan a Warden with the relic chaingun, he had the catachan guard screen with straken and command point engine, but instead of guard arty he had an admech battalion with min rangers, a couple shooty kastelans and a couple neutron onagers.

We set up turn 1, I lost the roll to go first because of the +1 he had, and he used Knight of the Cog to make his knight count as in cover. I didn't use the 2nd turn cover strat because most of my stuff that was going to be targeted was in the KFF or Deep Struck. I started out down 3CP because of the tellyported dreads and the warphead, so I had 10 to his 10 as well (he spent a few I think on relic+Character trait for the knight). The onagers and dakkabots both put their shooting into the Wazbom, luckily only one onager shot went through and it only did 3, I spent a CP to reroll a 5++ and succeeded the second time. Between them and the bots the Wazbom took 7 damage, but stayed up. The knight declared all its shooting into the 30 boyz, I grot shielded it into gretchin for a first blood I was happy to give up.

He moved the wall of lasguns up but they were not in range for double tapping, they went into the 10 boyz figuring there were fewer between them and the nob and killed 8 in total between them and the admech rangers.

My turn, looking at 8cp left I decided it wasn't worth the 1cp to bring the extra tankbusta boy and big choppa nob from the small boyz squad, so I just left them to the backfield and Warpathed+Da Jumped the boyz up (took perils on both weirdboys but each did only 1 damage). Fists of Gork'd the deffkilla after the boyz were out of the way, succeeded with no perils, so I had him in a solid position to charge into the screen as well. I declared a smasha gun into the knight and he put up the 3++, I just wanted to make him spend the CP. The rest of my smasha guns went into Onagers, and on the third one I succeeded in killing it, popping Freeboota kultur on all my ork shooters. The rest of my shooting killed one kastelan and took the other to 1 wound. Tanked overwatch from almost all the lasguns with my deffkilla and warbikes, then the boyz easily got into combat, declaring on all the guardsmen. 3CP to fight again with warpath plus the boss+bike squad, wiped 60 guardsmen and 15 skitarii. I didnt get the company commander or straken because they opted to not heroically intervene in.

Guard turn, he did a similar thing but this time the 2 remaining onagers succeeded in downing the plane, and there were no grots in front of the boys so the boys pretty much got dead. They survived long enough to keep the deffkilla out of harms way though, so bonus there! Straken and the CC decided theyd rather fight warbikes than the deffkilla, and they succeeded in murdering them.

My turn 2, deff dreads plopped in, screened out a tiny bit by straken and CC. I Fist of Gorked the killa klaw boss and sent him in along with the shokkjump dragsta who was close enough to get to the knight. Easily shot the last robot to death with smashas, turning freebootas on again and started shooting up the knight. My opponent waited to turn on the 3++ until it was clear I was putting some hurt on the knight, so I got 6 damage into the knight until he turned it on and I switched over to damaging the hardest to reach onager. The dragsta just barely survived overwatch from the knight and got in, shepherding the klawboss, and the deff dreads rolled pretty bad to get in, with only one getting the 10" charge needed to get to the Onager I could reach. One made it into straken+CC, who were semi-screening the deep strike, and the other didn't go anywhere. Selected the boss first, 3CP fight twice, and totaled the knight. My opponent used the strat to get him up at the end of the phase. He also used 2cp to interrupt with Straken and deal some damage to the dread, but could not kill it. The dread killed straken but not the CC, and the other killed the onager.

Opponent turn 2, he spent a CP to make the knight fight at full, shot the bikeboss to death with the super chaingun, finished off the dragsta with his shoulder rockets, and the last onager finished off the dread that had been fighting straken and got damaged.

My turn, my opponent said he'd concede if I killed the knight in shooting, and I did with the smasha guns, so we called it there. I would have tabled him pretty easily with what I had left.

Seemed pretty clean tbh. The list wasn't far off the crazy tourney meta-list, and orks took it down fairly handily.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

PiñaColada wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Anyone else had success with the Boomwagon? For only 100 points it seems to put out a lot of dakka and can harass enemies pretty effectively.

I'm guessing you mean the Boomdakka Snazzwagon. It's been discussed back and forth. Jidmah did a comparison between it and the KBB a few pages back and it didn't look great. I myself am a big fan of the model but not a fan of the rules. It does have the nice little benefit of being hard to hit but I'm not sure (other than liking the model or dislike running duplicates) why you'd take it over dakkajets, KBBs or warbikers.

I'd love to hear success stories from it though

Luckily it's pretty easy to turn into a KBB with a bit of a modification to the gun and some kind of burna weapon added on.

tneva82 wrote:

 Elfric wrote:
Hey guys am I the only one that doesn't have LoW options on Battlescribe? Can't see Stompa or Kill Tanks anywhere.

Also does the Freebooter ability stack. For example, I have three squads of Flash Gitz. First squad kills a unit, the next two get +1 BS. The second unit also kills a unit, does the third unit get an additional +1 (giving that squad +2 BS)?

You need to select detachment that has super heavies(so super heavy detachment, auxiliary or supreme commander).

And no stacking I think

Much appreciated dude that worked.

What is everyone's opinion on the Kill Tank? Is it too expensive because it has amazing stats especially now with the Kukturs

Boomdakka Snazzwagon is a classic harassing unit...but, one that I have found very useful in a mainly msu vehicle list. In previous editions, I used lots of grot tanks to perform the same roll. Basically, opponents ignore it due to low strength and perceived weakness, combined with its moderate protection (-1 to hit). It has the added advantage of being a physically large model with a substantial base. So, it has been very useful in stalling the enemy to keep them from an objective, blocking their movement and then daring them to charge it (exploding on a 4+). At 100 points, it cheap enough to place in risky situations to protect more valuable units, disrupt the opponent's movements, etc.

Also, I have had some hilarious success with killa kans in a rather unintended way. Last game, my opponents were using a deepstrike heavy khorne daemon and world eaters army (with a few forgeworld blood slaughterers). I managed to bait them into charging a unit of killa kans in a narrow alley, at which point the killa kans interrupted the combat sequence and almost killed a blood slaughterer. When they attacked back and killed all but one kan, two of them exploded killing the blood slaughter, some daemons, and the super killy, angry chaos marine lord (I am blanking on his name).

karandrasss wrote:
Are big Warbiker Nobz squads viable?

Well, without additional gear they compare poorly to koptas and a full unit is 380 points, which compares even worse to a unit of 10 nobz in a bonebreaka, which is 299 points.

If you really want to run biker nobz, you should do it in smaller units and be prepared to keep exhaust cloud stratagem up on them at all times. Also make sure to block LOS to them with a battlewagon or two.
Give them skorchas and/or dual killsaws and hit something valuable hard. Without using the index, they are the only fast skorchas we have left, and dual killsaws at least make them somewhat more killy thank koptas.

 Jidmah wrote:

karandrasss wrote:
Are big Warbiker Nobz squads viable?

Well, without additional gear they compare poorly to koptas and a full unit is 380 points, which compares even worse to a unit of 10 nobz in a bonebreaka, which is 299 points.

If you really want to run biker nobz, you should do it in smaller units and be prepared to keep exhaust cloud stratagem up on them at all times. Also make sure to block LOS to them with a battlewagon or two.
Give them skorchas and/or dual killsaws and hit something valuable hard. Without using the index, they are the only fast skorchas we have left, and dual killsaws at least make them somewhat more killy thank koptas.

Tricky to los block with wagon seeing wagon has hole belows among tracks and wheels

Do you think Scorcha nobz are worth it? I can get two dual-choppa nobz for 1 scorcha nob with points to spare. 10s5AP- attacks that hit on 3s seems better than D6 authotting S5 Ap-1 hits.

 Jidmah wrote:
Without using the index, they are the only fast skorchas we have left,

I think the Nob Bikers are explicitely forbidden from using Kombi-Skorchas.

if they didnt have to give up their melee weapons i would totally run kombi nobz.
Imagine 10 nobz with Kombirokkits doing More Dakka and firing both profiles, still hitting on 5s and generating more shots, then charge in with bigchoppas.
I will never run kombis on nobz because they are a melee unit and you cant take a bigchoppa/pk if you take a kombi.

I actually dropped Skorchas on my dreads, totally not worth 17pts imo.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
if they didnt have to give up their melee weapons i would totally run kombi nobz.
Imagine 10 nobz with Kombirokkits doing More Dakka and firing both profiles, still hitting on 5s and generating more shots, then charge in with bigchoppas.
I will never run kombis on nobz because they are a melee unit and you cant take a bigchoppa/pk if you take a kombi.

I actually dropped Skorchas on my dreads, totally not worth 17pts imo.

Yeah and all that value for only what...31ppm?

Oof. Again, I can have for that price a big choppa nob...and a Tankbusta who gets rerolls to hit, I can stick in my shooty kultur detachment, and is one more thing my opponent has to shoot.

Dammit. Had had some hope flash gits would be if not great at least playable but without free boota detachment seems bit hard. Can\t use more dakka inside transport so can't use that to overcome having to move T1. If you are outside transport can't use grot screen either without freeboota detachment. Bummer :(

tneva82 wrote:
Dammit. Had had some hope flash gits would be if not great at least playable but without free boota detachment seems bit hard. Can\t use more dakka inside transport so can't use that to overcome having to move T1. If you are outside transport can't use grot screen either without freeboota detachment. Bummer :(

I think that attaching everything to <clan> was a huge misstep. I cannot really blame them because modern players all want special snowflake rules for each sub-faction.

I think skorchas, and flamers in general, are over-priced.

tneva82 wrote:
Dammit. Had had some hope flash gits would be if not great at least playable but without free boota detachment seems bit hard. Can\t use more dakka inside transport so can't use that to overcome having to move T1. If you are outside transport can't use grot screen either without freeboota detachment. Bummer :(

I mean, freeboota detachments are nearly free though. You're gonna want weirdboys. you're gonna want gretchins. You're gonna want mek gunz. Put those in freebootas, and they kinda-sorta get a benefit from a clan.

the_scotsman wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Dammit. Had had some hope flash gits would be if not great at least playable but without free boota detachment seems bit hard. Can\t use more dakka inside transport so can't use that to overcome having to move T1. If you are outside transport can't use grot screen either without freeboota detachment. Bummer :(

I mean, freeboota detachments are nearly free though. You're gonna want weirdboys. you're gonna want gretchins. You're gonna want mek gunz. Put those in freebootas, and they kinda-sorta get a benefit from a clan.

Then figure in how to fit evil suns(deep strikers) and bad moon(tank bustas, lootas). That's minimum of 5 HQ+6 troop+3 mek guns. Plus the free boota grots.

What do you think would be the best way to run bikers? MSU of 3 to keep things cheap, or by large squad to be able to maximise the -1 to hit stratagem?

tneva82 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Dammit. Had had some hope flash gits would be if not great at least playable but without free boota detachment seems bit hard. Can\t use more dakka inside transport so can't use that to overcome having to move T1. If you are outside transport can't use grot screen either without freeboota detachment. Bummer :(

I mean, freeboota detachments are nearly free though. You're gonna want weirdboys. you're gonna want gretchins. You're gonna want mek gunz. Put those in freebootas, and they kinda-sorta get a benefit from a clan.

Then figure in how to fit evil suns(deep strikers) and bad moon(tank bustas, lootas). That's minimum of 5 HQ+6 troop+3 mek guns. Plus the free boota grots.

I don't think bad moon is that essential. I'd include one CP spendy detachment (for me, that's the evil sunz) and one CP light detachment (Freebootas need basically no CPs to do their thing).

But if you really wanted to include a bad moon doubleshot combo, throw in an aux supp detachment for your maxed out unit of tankbustas or whatever you wanted. You see that all the time in competitive lists where people want to get their farseer or their shining spears or whatever into the list, but don't want to bring mandatory units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JeffVimes wrote:
What do you think would be the best way to run bikers? MSU of 3 to keep things cheap, or by large squad to be able to maximise the -1 to hit stratagem?

Go large, but IMO they're a minimally competitive unit at best. I think a large squad is the best way to run a mediocre unit. In small squads, I just wonder why I'm not just bringing a skrapjet, a deffcopta, or even a boomdakka for a couple points more.

 Rismonite wrote:
-A Bonebreaka and three Deff Dreadz get into an assault with three units of enemy infantry. After resolving the Bonebreaka's attacks, one of my Deff Dreadz involved in the assaults is no longer within an inch of an enemy before and after piling in. Can the Deff Dread consolidate?

I don't see why not. A unit can be chosen to fight if it made a successful charge and being unable to choose a target to attack doesn't prevent you from completing the rest of the fight sequence.

 Rismonite wrote:
Can it consolidate within 1" of a unit it did not declare an assault with?

There is no rule I'm aware of which prevents you from doing that. The only restriction is that you have to move towards the closest enemy model.

 Rismonite wrote:
Can it use the 'Pile In' stratagem to have a fight phase with a unit it just consolidated to within 1" of that was not origionally part of an assault?

You mean 'Get stuck in ladz!'? No. Firstly, it only affects infantry and secondly, it does not over-ride any of the normal rules for fighting in the fight phase (except being able to do it with a unit which already fought, obviously).

 Rismonite wrote:
Does difficult terrain exist in any form at all?

Yes, in some form. Each terrain piece has its own rules. See the 'battlefield terrain' section on pp. 248-251 of the big rule book. Woods, ruins, craters, and obstacles all have rules which affect movement.

 Rismonite wrote:
Does Ghaz absolutely have to use the Goff Clan trait? Does any <clan> warlord get to use anything other than their respective clan trait? This is per a black boxed rule at the bottom of the warlord trait table, I forget the page.

Yes, Ghaz has to take the Goff trait. The box is on p. 132 of the ork codex and is completely unambiguous about this, even giving him as the example. Named ork characters absolutely always have to have their clan warlord trait.

the_scotsman wrote:
I don't think bad moon is that essential. I'd include one CP spendy detachment (for me, that's the evil sunz) and one CP light detachment (Freebootas need basically no CPs to do their thing).

I figure lootas and tankbustas in bad moon are lot more essential than flash gits...Even with grot screen I'm not sold on flash gits actually being GOOD. Expensive and get hurt by having to move T1 regardless of what.

tneva82 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
I don't think bad moon is that essential. I'd include one CP spendy detachment (for me, that's the evil sunz) and one CP light detachment (Freebootas need basically no CPs to do their thing).

I figure lootas and tankbustas in bad moon are lot more essential than flash gits...Even with grot screen I'm not sold on flash gits actually being GOOD. Expensive and get hurt by having to move T1 regardless of what.

When I compared pros and cons of lootas v flash gits I ended up liking the gits a lot more.

I'd take a trukk for either of them personally, for the lootas primarily to keep them from being shot and they get a 50% chance for a free Loot It when it dies, for the gits to get them in range and because Loot It is huge value for them.

I'm taking both of them for either heavy infantry or light vehicle duty, so my primary targets tend to be T5 or less where the 1 point of strength the lootas have matters less to me. For T7 3+ I have bustas and smashas, easy choice there.

Against any target where the extra point of AP (-2 vs -1) that isn't either T6 or T7, the flash gits do more damage per point than the lootas even on the turn they move and drop to hitting on 5+. T6 is remarkably rare, and T7 again I'm not taking them for. So really, it's just the range. The gits are more durable, ramp up in the following turn to doing much more damage, come with an ablative model for when the trukk pops, and dont require me to spend 1cp to protect every time a stiff breeze blows their way once they're out in the open.

For the bustas, unless you're taking a max blob and trying to do showin' off double taps with them, make much more sense in a freeboota detachment. Simple reason being if the bad moon kultur matters...you're shooting them at the wrong thing. And even when it does matter, assuming your mek gunz can kill something (if they don't, you don't have enough mek gunz) the freeboota kultur is a higher numbers swing than the bad moonz kultur anyway.