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I was thinking about running 2-3 trukks with boys and forming a huge blob out of them at the destination point in order to get +1 attack bonus.

As for bikes, I'm still wondering if I should get them into CC or not. They seem to be more of a flexible unit that can cap points and has nothing spectacular in terms of close combat, I have 6 from speed freeks box

 r_squared wrote:
Meks with Deathskulls and a kmb for 31 points are absolutely amazing, especially that even with re-rolls, if you do get a natural 1 and reroll another 1 it's only a mortal wound, you have 2 more to go and you're not slain. My only doubt is that in order to take a kmb, it's an index option and the index damage is d3, not d6 as in the codex.

20 death skull meks with kustom mega sluggas in a battlewagon, 700 points.
12" range :(
reroll all hits and all wounds
basically melta damage, at the full 12" range too
rough math has you killing a 5++ knight in one round of shooting.
you then have the character rule to protect them, and they all have obsec.

edit:
16 T7 wounds at 4+/6++
60 T4 wounds at 6++

edit: rule of three :( how do i keep forgetting this?

 Jidmah wrote:
Blackie, have you tried larger units of koptas? Why aren't they working well?

What's their role?

A big unit with big shootas isn't very good in clearing screeners, a Dakkajet costs like 3,5 of them, it's easier to get into the right position, and doesn't suffer from morale.

A big unit with rokkits is worse than the same amount of points invested in scrapjets, tankbutas, mek gunz and maybe even lootas. Only one re-roll per squad if you are Deathskulls, they do not count as individual units, like buggies or dreads, once deployed.

Large units aren't also good brigade fillers because they're not cheap anymore. I think that's their role, cheap fillers and decent enough since they have a re-roll each which is ideal on a platform with 2 rokkits and BS5+.

what's the thoughts on shooty dreads?...could they be in any way viable? (not necessarily for full-on competitive, as I'm pretty sure I know the answer there )...it's just that the idea of a whole bunch of belligerent yellow trashcans waddling around, all armed with 4x kustom mega blastas...that sounds hilarious to me

You can use the "Drive-by krumpin'" strat on a larger unit of deffkoptas for escaping after some sneaky character sniping or just general hit&runs. Moving 23" after they've shot coupled with fly seems like it could have its niches.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 r_squared wrote:

3x Truck, Rokkit launcha

Not in the codex anymore. Presumably you were taking the index option? That would be a pretty sweet Deffskull trukk, but do index armaments allow kultures?

I presume so, although I stand to be corrected. It's how we played it last night. The Meks all had KMB (index) too, the only thing I queried at the end was the statline, when I noticed index KMB were d3 damage not d6.

However, just to emphasise how good they are if this holds up, the truck with rokkit, mek and Boyz are all individual units with their own rerolls for their hard hitting stuff.

That's, all 24" range, 2 rerollable to hit and wound str8, -2 ap flat 3 damage rokkits, and one rerollable to hit, wound and damage str8, -3 ap, d6 damage KMB, in one truck.

That's not including an extra d3 str8, -2ap d6 dam at 6" from the tankbusta bomb.

All in a T6, 10 wound, 4+ unit that moves 12" and has 2 obsec units inside.

I think these may appear on tables more often in the future.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZoBo wrote:
what's the thoughts on shooty dreads?...could they be in any way viable? (not necessarily for full-on competitive, as I'm pretty sure I know the answer there )...it's just that the idea of a whole bunch of belligerent yellow trashcans waddling around, all armed with 4x kustom mega blastas...that sounds hilarious to me

It certainly is, but it's about threat saturation. My opponent last night, at first focused on the smasha gunz, but once he saw how dangerous the trucks were, and the SAG, and the big mek with KMB, he just couldn't handle the amounts of threats to be countered. It'd be easy to load up a couple of distraction carnifex dakka dreads as they are only 91 points.

Last night we played on a 4x4 table, as it was only 1000pts, longer tables would be an issue. But with 24" range and teleport strat, you could certainly bring them in in your own deployment zone first turn and likely hit something useful.

It's worth a thought.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hollow one wrote:

Spoiler:

 r_squared wrote:
Meks with Deathskulls and a kmb for 31 points are absolutely amazing, especially that even with re-rolls, if you do get a natural 1 and reroll another 1 it's only a mortal wound, you have 2 more to go and you're not slain. My only doubt is that in order to take a kmb, it's an index option and the index damage is d3, not d6 as in the codex.

20 death skull meks with kustom mega sluggas in a battlewagon, 700 points.
12" range :(
reroll all hits and all wounds
basically melta damage, at the full 12" range too
rough math has you killing a 5++ knight in one round of shooting.
you then have the character rule to protect them, and they all have obsec.

edit:
16 T7 wounds at 4+/6++
60 T4 wounds at 6++

edit: rule of three :( how do i keep forgetting this?

Dont be hard on yourself, it is a guideline rather than a rule.

For the Kustom Mega-Blastas, if you're using index wargear options then you must use the codex stats and points for it if they exist. This is covered in the designers commentary. Furthermore from the Imperial Armour FAQ, you're allowed to use the Codex version of weapons for the Imperial Armour index units.
So all Kustom Mega-Blastas are d6 damage now, regardless of whether it's index or forgeworld.

 ZoBo wrote:
what's the thoughts on shooty dreads?...could they be in any way viable? (not necessarily for full-on competitive, as I'm pretty sure I know the answer there )...it's just that the idea of a whole bunch of belligerent yellow trashcans waddling around, all armed with 4x kustom mega blastas...that sounds hilarious to me

As I said earlier, Deathskull dreds sound viable. They'll get an invul to deal with anti-tank, and if you take KMB you can use the reroll to try to avoid a self-inflicted mortal wound and you can reroll the damage.

hmm...so for deathskulls, maybe just the one KMB (to use the rerolls on), then fill out the other 3 slots with klaws/saws/skorchas?...4 KMB kinda feels like badmoons-only

2 KMB feels like the sweet spot for me. Remember, you might hit with one natively, don't want that re-roll to go to waste.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
2 KMB feels like the sweet spot for me. Remember, you might hit with one natively, don't want that re-roll to go to waste.

Sure, but that hit might be a dakkadakkadakka that generates another hit roll of 1. Ork maffs iz 'ard

 ZoBo wrote:
hmm...so for deathskulls, maybe just the one KMB (to use the rerolls on), then fill out the other 3 slots with klaws/saws/skorchas?...4 KMB kinda feels like badmoons-only

Eh, could work for both, really.
It could work for badmoons because you get some protection against overheat
It could also work for deathskulls, as it increases the chances of hitting and wounding, allowing you to get that juicy damage reroll in the end.

By the way I have a question since until GW specifies that it would work I won't play "more dakka" on an embarked unit.

The embarked unit uses whatever restrictions or modifiers that they vehicle currently has, right? So is "more dakka" not a modifier? Because if it is, couldn't you just throw that strat on the trukk since the only requirement is Ork unit and the strat would then also apply to the embarked unit?

I guess my question is, is there a real definition of the term modifier?

PiñaColada wrote:
By the way I have a question since until GW specifies that it would work I won't play "more dakka" on an embarked unit.

The embarked unit uses whatever restrictions or modifiers that they vehicle currently has, right? So is "more dakka" not a modifier? Because if it is, couldn't you just throw that strat on the trukk since the only requirement is Ork unit and the strat would then also apply to the embarked unti?

I guess my question is, is there a real definition of the term modifier?

More Dakka is not a modifier. A modifier is determined as something that alters the value of a dice roll. -1 to hit is a modifier. More Dakka is not. Not being able to shoot after falling back is a restriction. More dakka is not a restriction.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
By the way I have a question since until GW specifies that it would work I won't play "more dakka" on an embarked unit.

The embarked unit uses whatever restrictions or modifiers that they vehicle currently has, right? So is "more dakka" not a modifier? Because if it is, couldn't you just throw that strat on the trukk since the only requirement is Ork unit and the strat would then also apply to the embarked unti?

I guess my question is, is there a real definition of the term modifier?

More Dakka is not a modifier. A modifier is determined as something that alters the value of a dice roll. -1 to hit is a modifier. More Dakka is not. Not being able to shoot after falling back is a restriction. More dakka is not a restriction.

Alright, I guess I thought because the fact that you're modifying (or maybe altering to avoid confusion) your chance of getting dakkadakkadakka shots that it might've been a modifier..

 ZoBo wrote:
hmm...so for deathskulls, maybe just the one KMB (to use the rerolls on), then fill out the other 3 slots with klaws/saws/skorchas?...4 KMB kinda feels like badmoons-only

Nah that assumes you always miss and don't account for hits. Also rerolls you don't use(by either hitting(thus not needing reroll to hit)) or not hitting at all(thus missing on to wound reroll) is also waste.

I would say 2 KMB's would be sweet spot. It's basically averaging 1 hit from shooting.

Also 4 KMB isn't that likely to roll multiple 1's so you are generally rerolling LESS to hits than with deathskulls...And no to wound and damage rolls. Remember you have good chance of not rolling even one 1 with 6 shots nevermind with 4!

Would a ridiculous gretchin list be remotely competitive?

2 weirdboy warpheads
Warboss with PK
Smash-warboss on bike

2 runtherds

10 x 30 gretchin

18 smasha guns.

30 evil sunz boyz with a PK to jump or tellyport

Unfortnuately due to the mek gun model rules there would be 390 gretchin models needed for this instead of the more reasonable 300 you'd expect to need.

tneva82 wrote:

 ZoBo wrote:
hmm...so for deathskulls, maybe just the one KMB (to use the rerolls on), then fill out the other 3 slots with klaws/saws/skorchas?...4 KMB kinda feels like badmoons-only

Nah that assumes you always miss and don't account for hits. Also rerolls you don't use(by either hitting(thus not needing reroll to hit)) or not hitting at all(thus missing on to wound reroll) is also waste.

I would say 2 KMB's would be sweet spot. It's basically averaging 1 hit from shooting.

Also 4 KMB isn't that likely to roll multiple 1's so you are generally rerolling LESS to hits than with deathskulls...And no to wound and damage rolls. Remember you have good chance of not rolling even one 1 with 6 shots nevermind with 4!

You also get an invul with deathskulls. I think deathskulls is overall more useful than badmoons on that build, imo.
I like the idea of giving a dread 3 KMB and a claw. You will get 1 hit on average without having to reroll and you can still do something in combat.

yeah good points...and yeah, 3 KMB's and a klaw does sound pretty decent (was a little concerned about melee)...and imagining what that would look like as a model, I think that'd suit deathskulls too, the asymmetry of having just the one big gangly arm really fits the kinda oddball, looted style I feel like deathskulls should have

Played 2 matches yesterday, it's local tournament of 65 CP, "fast" matches.

My list was, 2x30 boyz, 3 kans, 3 deffkopta, weirdboy, bigmek/kff, 10 nobz, gretchlin… Whatever, I found kans extremely useless due to the lack of movement, they do not fit well in my army.

I've been thinking of this list.

Evil sunz -->

Weirdboy
Big mek KFF

2x30 boyz
20 gretchlins

Deffkopta

Bad Moons -->

Big mek shook gun

5 Nobz
5 Nobz
painboy

5 Lootas

Trukk

The point is, deepstrike 30 boyz, Da Jump 30 boyz, 10 nobs go trukk with painboy and KFF, deffkoptas go deepstrike, so I can rush with all my army at turn 2.
Meanwhile, gretchlins are used as a shield and objective takers, lootas and big mek shoot, they are bad moons.
No army of my team stay behind due to lack of mobility, all of them can strike at the same time.

I'm not sure about the 5 lootas, do you think it's better to take 2 mek gunz? are they any useful?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
By the way I have a question since until GW specifies that it would work I won't play "more dakka" on an embarked unit.

The embarked unit uses whatever restrictions or modifiers that they vehicle currently has, right? So is "more dakka" not a modifier? Because if it is, couldn't you just throw that strat on the trukk since the only requirement is Ork unit and the strat would then also apply to the embarked unti?

I guess my question is, is there a real definition of the term modifier?

More Dakka is not a modifier. A modifier is determined as something that alters the value of a dice roll. -1 to hit is a modifier. More Dakka is not. Not being able to shoot after falling back is a restriction. More dakka is not a restriction.

I thought this was the case too.. until they ruled mobile fortress on the battlewagon doesnt apply to gits inside. I do suppose thats the absence of a modifier... is not a modifier but still seems like a dumb.

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
By the way I have a question since until GW specifies that it would work I won't play "more dakka" on an embarked unit.

The embarked unit uses whatever restrictions or modifiers that they vehicle currently has, right? So is "more dakka" not a modifier? Because if it is, couldn't you just throw that strat on the trukk since the only requirement is Ork unit and the strat would then also apply to the embarked unti?

I guess my question is, is there a real definition of the term modifier?

More Dakka is not a modifier. A modifier is determined as something that alters the value of a dice roll. -1 to hit is a modifier. More Dakka is not. Not being able to shoot after falling back is a restriction. More dakka is not a restriction.

I thought this was the case too.. until they ruled mobile fortress on the battlewagon doesnt apply to gits inside. I do suppose thats the absence of a modifier... is not a modifier but still seems like a dumb.

That is not the same situation. Mobile Fortress is not a modifier or a restriction, it's ignoring a modifier. Even if it did apply to the models inside, it wouldn't do anything because "this model" refers to the battlewagon, so the models inside would have a rule saying the battlewagon ignores the -1 to hit, which doesn't benefit the actual models inside.

Hi there, a quick question if I may?

I assume by now, somebody has crunched the numbers on Bad Moons & DDD. My search-fu is however weak, could somebody please link me the results?

Thank you.

gungo wrote:
We will see how things happen competitively. However 8th index orks even da jumped had a hard enough time making that charge.

If you push orks into a shooting war you will lose to shooting armies and maybe most assault lists.

That is a bold statement to make at present, as not many people have tried shooty ork lists (codex came out like... not even two weeks ago ?). They are hard to design i'll give you that though, and i does seem counter productive to not take a single assault unit. But still, a few more trials please before making such claims

 Urluck wrote:
Hi there, a quick question if I may?

I assume by now, somebody has crunched the numbers on Bad Moons & DDD. My search-fu is however weak, could somebody please link me the results?

Thank you.

Unsure quite what you mean, but both abilities increase your raw firepower by roughly 17%.

When taken together they synergise slightly so increase your firepower by about 37%

Looks like Orks won the Renegade Open. Anyone got a list? Was it ITC format?

 DoomMouse wrote:

 Urluck wrote:
Hi there, a quick question if I may?

I assume by now, somebody has crunched the numbers on Bad Moons & DDD. My search-fu is however weak, could somebody please link me the results?

Thank you.

Unsure quite what you mean, but both abilities increase your raw firepower by roughly 17%.

When taken together they synergise slightly so increase your firepower by about 37%

Are you sure? That doesn't sound right.

 Urluck wrote:
Hi there, a quick question if I may?

I assume by now, somebody has crunched the numbers on Bad Moons & DDD. My search-fu is however weak, could somebody please link me the results?

Thank you.

Bad moons and DDD at BS5+ results in 46.5% hits
Bad moons and DDD at BS4+ results in 69.7% hits
Bad moons and DDD at BS3+ results in 93% hits

 Urluck wrote:
Hi there, a quick question if I may?

I assume by now, somebody has crunched the numbers on Bad Moons & DDD. My search-fu is however weak, could somebody please link me the results?

Thank you.

I made a thread on r/orks with all the shooting probability just prior to the codex release. I've been meaning to revisit it and account for how it would work for Deathskullz (it's a bit more nuanced and involved), and take a look at charging probability. I was going to post all of that here when I had that resolved but might of forgotten to finish the job.
If you want the tl;dr version so you don't have to read the post I made: a bad moonz unit with BS5+ gets you 0.465 expected hits with DDD and 0.54 expected hits with More Dakka. Tankbustas get 0.71 expected hits with DDD and 0.864 expected hits with More Dakka, when targeting a vehicle.

FAQ is up:
https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/warhammer_40000_orks_en.pdf