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 Crimson wrote:
However, that one guy was Pete Foley, the lead designer. Considering how explicit his answer was, I don't think he was confused. I think it is likely that he merely said it too soon, and the upgrade is for when GW wants to move some of the old special characters into Primaris.

Maybe it seemed definite that day. Maybe they've changed their minds since. Until there's some official lore we just don't know for sure.

 Stux wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
However, that one guy was Pete Foley, the lead designer. Considering how explicit his answer was, I don't think he was confused. I think it is likely that he merely said it too soon, and the upgrade is for when GW wants to move some of the old special characters into Primaris.

Maybe it seemed definite that day. Maybe they've changed their minds since. Until there's some official lore we just don't know for sure.

Sure, but that's why we get this thread - to speculate wildly.

Lemondish wrote:

 Stux wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
However, that one guy was Pete Foley, the lead designer. Considering how explicit his answer was, I don't think he was confused. I think it is likely that he merely said it too soon, and the upgrade is for when GW wants to move some of the old special characters into Primaris.

Maybe it seemed definite that day. Maybe they've changed their minds since. Until there's some official lore we just don't know for sure.

Sure, but that's why we get this thread - to speculate wildly.

That, and to correct people on technicalities

“The captain could not help but feel that, in his drive for victory and efficiency, Guilliman had been careless with the feelings of his existing sons. Increasingly, Guilliman looked to the Primaris Space Marines as his first solution. He made no attempt to hide the fact that the days of the older Space Marines were numbered.” - Dark Imperium

 grouchoben wrote:
“The captain could not help but feel that, in his drive for victory and efficiency, Guilliman had been careless with the feelings of his existing sons. Increasingly, Guilliman looked to the Primaris Space Marines as his first solution. He made no attempt to hide the fact that the days of the older Space Marines were numbered.” - Dark Imperium

That's Decimus Felix's personal opinion.

Given that GW have stated that chapters are making standard marines and primaris marines together, it is incorrect.

Forgot to respond to the actual question: NO. GW is not phasing out standard marines. Sculpts and scale will be updated at some point but there is no way GW's going to invalidate decades of novels, spin-off games, video games and artwork by saying non-Primaris marines don't exist in 40k anymore.

All I have to do is look over at my old warhammer fantasy collection to know that GW can and will destroy everything you love.

The decision has already been made, old marines are getting phased out. It might not be for another 10 years, but they’re done.

They’ve already taken a giant gak all over Baal and Fenris to do it too.

HH is staying the same, Chaos, who knows? But loyalists are going primaris

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

Forgot to respond to the actual question: NO. GW is not phasing out standard marines. Sculpts and scale will be updated at some point but there is no way GW's going to invalidate decades of novels, spin-off games, video games and artwork by saying non-Primaris marines don't exist in 40k anymore.

All I have to do is look over at my old warhammer fantasy collection to know that GW can and will destroy everything you love.

The decision has already been made, old marines are getting phased out. It might not be for another 10 years, but they’re done.

They’ve already taken a giant gak all over Baal and Fenris to do it too.

HH is staying the same, Chaos, who knows? But loyalists are going primaris

And it's about damn time.

Lemondish wrote:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

Forgot to respond to the actual question: NO. GW is not phasing out standard marines. Sculpts and scale will be updated at some point but there is no way GW's going to invalidate decades of novels, spin-off games, video games and artwork by saying non-Primaris marines don't exist in 40k anymore.

All I have to do is look over at my old warhammer fantasy collection to know that GW can and will destroy everything you love.

The decision has already been made, old marines are getting phased out. It might not be for another 10 years, but they’re done.

They’ve already taken a giant gak all over Baal and Fenris to do it too.

HH is staying the same, Chaos, who knows? But loyalists are going primaris

And it's about damn time.

Ok 10 years, I can buy that lol.

And it's about damn time

About time to do what though?

Primaris as a thing shouldn’t exist. Their fluff is really stupid and completely ham handedly implemented. Not to mention gaking all over established lore of the some of the most famous chapters. Really? They’re decimating the blood angels, dark angels and space wolves just so they can shove some Primaris in our face? It cheapens the universe and removes the tragedy of the HH.

40k is a setting, it shouldn’t be advancing like it is.

Not to mention that Intercessors are the only good looking models and that’s simply because their proportions are correct. The other models like aggressors look dumb as feth. They also completely lack skulls, bling and close combat weapons. Basically the one thing that separates 40k marines from every other IP’s “space marines”. Get that sci-fi gak outta my 40k, let’s keep it medieval like it should be.

If they wanted to make true scale marines, just do that. But don’t give us this janky half baked Primaris bs excuse. Just give me the classics.

Everything advances or dies.

If intercessors drop 2 more points, the other troops are now obsolete.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

And it's about damn time

About time to do what though?

Primaris as a thing shouldn’t exist. Their fluff is really stupid and completely ham handedly implemented. Not to mention gaking all over established lore of the some of the most famous chapters. Really? They’re decimating the blood angels, dark angels and space wolves just so they can shove some Primaris in our face? It cheapens the universe and removes the tragedy of the HH.

40k is a setting, it shouldn’t be advancing like it is.

Not to mention that Intercessors are the only good looking models and that’s simply because their proportions are correct. The other models like aggressors look dumb as feth. They also completely lack skulls, bling and close combat weapons. Basically the one thing that separates 40k marines from every other IP’s “space marines”. Get that sci-fi gak outta my 40k, let’s keep it medieval like it should be.

If they wanted to make true scale marines, just do that. But don’t give us this janky half baked Primaris bs excuse. Just give me the classics.

Is all one opinion.

Personally I like it, and that's as a Dark Angels player.

robbienw wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
“The captain could not help but feel that, in his drive for victory and efficiency, Guilliman had been careless with the feelings of his existing sons. Increasingly, Guilliman looked to the Primaris Space Marines as his first solution. He made no attempt to hide the fact that the days of the older Space Marines were numbered.” - Dark Imperium

That's Decimus Felix's personal opinion.

Given that GW have stated that chapters are making standard marines and primaris marines together, it is incorrect.

The only reason standard marines are still being made is becuase of existing stocks of their wargear. Are Chapters just hoping to let motorpools of Land Raiders, predators and vindicators sit idle? No. So they are making standard marines until thwy use up their wargear and then it will be Primaris full steam ahead.

People grasping at straws trying to deny the phase out. It will take years but it has clearly already started.

 insaniak wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Not since GW said that current marines can become Primaris, so it won't effect the lore.

GW haven't said that, though. One guy said it on Facebook, and that comment was later removed. And the word from Black Library authors started out as 'Nope, they can't be upgraded' and then later changed to 'Uh... we're just not supposed to go there either way right now...'

It's possible that GW will go that way, but nothing's been 'officially' stated about it yet.

I don't have FB so that isn't true and I don't get my sources for facts etc. from people on forums, we'd be believing the moon was made of cheese if that was the case.. It was definitely GW, The BL writers write what they want, they aren't given commands by GW. GW keep in contact with some writers, but if someone writes something GW don't like or that it changes the lore too much they will either ask for it to be edited or they won't publish it.

The upgrade thing was said by Pete Foley in the second 8th edition live Q&A. It is still available.

https://www.facebook.com/WarhammerTVteam/videos/379597632435221/?t=1195
At about 20ish minutes.

I don't know about any Facebook comments on the subject, deleted or otherwise.

It seems pretty clear from the recent fluff that Primaris Marines are intended to eventually replace OldMarines. In addition to that, one constant complaint about OldMarines is that they are a generalist army in a game that favors specialists. Primaris units are all specialists in something, so GW is addressing the feedback through the introduction of Primaris Marines. Plus, they do stand to sell existing SM players a whole new army, which is a bit obnoxious considering I've been expanding my SM army since 3rd edition, but it's not like I won't buy in.

Furthermore, just because Primaris are the wave of the future doesn't mean that OldMarines have to stop being playable. Technically, one can still play a Bretonnians army in AoS. There are rules for them - at least there were in the first AoS release. GW just doesn't sell the model range anymore. I imagine AoS players don't see a lot of Bret armies, but they were never as all-pervasive as Space Marines are in 40K. Even when GW stops producing the model range, they'll probably still provide rules, and we'll probably still see OldMarine armies for years afterwards.

Plus, 30K is a thing. Anyone who has an OldMarine army has a ready-made 30K force. We may need to make some strategic additions, but that would involve a handful of models for most people.

Personally, I'm holding off on buying any new OldMarine models till I see where GW is going with the Primaris range. I'm not sinking more money into an army where the writing is pretty clearly on the wall, and it's not like I don't already have enough stuff to grind through painting-wise. I still have practically the whole of the Dark Imperium starter set to assemble and paint, and as a DA player I have to buy supplementary Hellblasters and plasma-Inceptors so I can WotDA in style - currently I'm using Ravenwing Knights and Devastators for that strat.

The only question I have about expansion to the Primaris range is if GW intends to produce Primaris Bikers. In order for the Ravenwing to continue existing as it does, they'd have to give us something like that. Deathwing could be represented by Gravis-armor Marines, but there's nothing suitable for the Ravenwing yet.

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:

Furthermore, just because Primaris are the wave of the future doesn't mean that OldMarines have to stop being playable. Technically, one can still play a Bretonnians army in AoS. There are rules for them - at least there were in the first AoS release. GW just doesn't sell the model range anymore. I imagine AoS players don't see a lot of Bret armies, but they were never as all-pervasive as Space Marines are in 40K. Even when GW stops producing the model range, they'll probably still provide rules, and we'll probably still see OldMarine armies for years afterwards.

Plus, 30K is a thing. Anyone who has an OldMarine army has a ready-made 30K force. We may need to make some strategic additions, but that would involve a handful of models for most people.

Yeah, I could see old-style tactical marines becoming a PDF download or an Index list or something. They could go either way with the model range - obviously the small models’ days are numbered, but it only takes a line of text to say that the Cawl has discovered/devised modifications to X vehicle that allow it to carry Primaris.

Not sure about the 30k thing, though. The player base at the moment have a minor stroke if your models don’t have the right shape of helmet or colour of rivets so the idea that they’d be fine with Scythes of the Emperor is unlikely.

 Crimson wrote:
The upgrade thing was said by Pete Foley in the second 8th edition live Q&A. It is still available.

https://www.facebook.com/WarhammerTVteam/videos/379597632435221/?t=1195
At about 20ish minutes.

I don't know about any Facebook comments on the subject, deleted or otherwise.

Yeah they got quiet very quickly when we all clocked on that if current characters are going to become Primaris, meaning that they are definitely going phase out current marines.

 SickSix wrote:

robbienw wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
“The captain could not help but feel that, in his drive for victory and efficiency, Guilliman had been careless with the feelings of his existing sons. Increasingly, Guilliman looked to the Primaris Space Marines as his first solution. He made no attempt to hide the fact that the days of the older Space Marines were numbered.” - Dark Imperium

That's Decimus Felix's personal opinion.

Given that GW have stated that chapters are making standard marines and primaris marines together, it is incorrect.

The only reason standard marines are still being made is becuase of existing stocks of their wargear. Are Chapters just hoping to let motorpools of Land Raiders, predators and vindicators sit idle? No. So they are making standard marines until thwy use up their wargear and then it will be Primaris full steam ahead.

People grasping at straws trying to deny the phase out. It will take years but it has clearly already started.

Not just because of the wargear, also because of their more flexible combat doctrines according to GW. There is nothing to suggest that the Forgeworlds and chapters that make this gear will stop making it. It would be unwise to do so if there was not adequate replacement for said wargear, which there currently isn’t.

As for a phase out having ‘clearly already started’, that is not the case, as not one single regular marine kit has been discontinued.

I think a better reason is that Primaris marines have n longitudinal studies in their gene seed, especially how that and even just the minds ofPrimaris work under true combat or working with and amongst human soldiers and human workers. 200-300 years is a short time for SM's, I think lore wise they'd still make normal marines until Primaris are fully tested. The only way I think marines would be axed in the lore is if Primaris marines were cheaper and faster to make etc. because necessity has never been greater due to the rift, but it would lead to some interestign writing if they did axe them and then later they found a serious problem with Primaris marines.

As opposed to the myriad flaws in mini marines geneseed? I think losing your mind, drinking blood and becoming a gibbering lunatic isn’t quite “to spec” for instance.

Bremon wrote:
As opposed to the myriad flaws in mini marines geneseed? I think losing your mind, drinking blood and becoming a gibbering lunatic isn’t quite “to spec” for instance.

True but it could always get worse, look at the Thousand sons before Magnus made his deal with the gods.

Martel732 wrote:
Everything advances or dies.

If intercessors drop 2 more points, the other troops are now obsolete.

Not until they have a transport option that's smaller than the Repulsor. Until that time arrives I will keep using my Grey Hunters and Blood Claws TYVM.

Pandabeer wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Everything advances or dies.

If intercessors drop 2 more points, the other troops are now obsolete.

Not until they have a transport option that's smaller than the Repulsor. Until that time arrives I will keep using my Grey Hunters and Blood Claws TYVM.

It’s ridiculous they can’t just ride in a Rhino considering what fits in the Harry Potter tent in the back of a Wave Serpent.

Pandabeer wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Everything advances or dies.

If intercessors drop 2 more points, the other troops are now obsolete.

Not until they have a transport option that's smaller than the Repulsor. Until that time arrives I will keep using my Grey Hunters and Blood Claws TYVM.

Rumours are that's coming in the next wave.

 Stux wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

Not until they have a transport option that's smaller than the Repulsor. Until that time arrives I will keep using my Grey Hunters and Blood Claws TYVM.

Rumours are that's coming in the next wave.

Source?

 Stux wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Everything advances or dies.

If intercessors drop 2 more points, the other troops are now obsolete.

Not until they have a transport option that's smaller than the Repulsor. Until that time arrives I will keep using my Grey Hunters and Blood Claws TYVM.

Rumours are that's coming in the next wave.

There's no actual source to confirm this BUT I personally think this will be the case when the next wave comes through - whenever that is.

Pandabeer wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Everything advances or dies.

If intercessors drop 2 more points, the other troops are now obsolete.

Not until they have a transport option that's smaller than the Repulsor. Until that time arrives I will keep using my Grey Hunters and Blood Claws TYVM.

I'd still use my Blood claws, they are still good CC options and help giving enough troops for CP's. Plus I have always loved blood claws.

 NurglesR0T wrote:

 Stux wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Everything advances or dies.

If intercessors drop 2 more points, the other troops are now obsolete.

Not until they have a transport option that's smaller than the Repulsor. Until that time arrives I will keep using my Grey Hunters and Blood Claws TYVM.

Rumours are that's coming in the next wave.

There's no actual source to confirm this BUT I personally think this will be the case when the next wave comes through - whenever that is.

Pretty big chance yes, would only be logical. Same for (jet?)bikes and a flyer. I reaaaally hope there's also going to be a CC specialist though. And Primaris Jump Pack HQs.

Pandabeer wrote:

 NurglesR0T wrote:

 Stux wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Everything advances or dies.

If intercessors drop 2 more points, the other troops are now obsolete.

Not until they have a transport option that's smaller than the Repulsor. Until that time arrives I will keep using my Grey Hunters and Blood Claws TYVM.

Rumours are that's coming in the next wave.

There's no actual source to confirm this BUT I personally think this will be the case when the next wave comes through - whenever that is.

Pretty big chance yes, would only be logical. Same for (jet?)bikes and a flyer. I reaaaally hope there's also going to be a CC specialist though. And Primaris Jump Pack HQs.

Yeah I'm hoping for all those things. An Inceptor Librarian and Captain would be amazing.

I don't think we need a brand new unit for CC, just some options for the existing ones.

If I'm wish listing?

Reivers with riot shields and shock batons.
Inceptors with storm shields and power lances.

robbienw wrote:

 ArbitorIan wrote:

 Stux wrote:

This is different. Having basic Primaris in GKs breaks the whole special flavour of Grey Knights. They are supposed to all be Psykers for a start.

As for Dark Angels, it's been addressed in the Codex and novels to a degree. For a start the majority of the chapter is not aware of the big secret, so for most Primaris it's no different to any other normal Dark Angel. Officers aren't even automatically in the Inner Circle. It's stated there are currently no Primaris in the Deathwing but that it's only a matter of time - it's been about 100 years since they were introduced so they've had time to prove their loyalty to a degree.

But there is already fluff in place stating that ‘regular’ Marines can get Primarified. They don’t need to have basic Primaris Intercessors in the GK. They could just write in that new the old GK got Primarified and the new ones are all put through Primaris Induction, and then release some bigger basic models. Now everyone is Primarised. Done.

Same thing with the Dark Angels. Either say it’s been a hundred more years and there’s loads of Primaris everywhere of say that all the higher-ups got Primarised.

There is no such fluff.

There is not a single example of a regular marine being turned into a primaris. Not in any codex, white dwarf, forgeworld or black library fluff.

Actually in war of secrets multiple marines that were around in the horus heresy are now primaris.