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2018/11/15 12:39:34
Subject: So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
I think people are missing the point: An Auto-hitting 'Krak-Missile' that is 'Melta' versus flying vehicles; for only a few points more than a single SM Devastator with a ML!
And yes I do realize that SM are a little over-priced at the moment and will hopefully see a slight points adjustment in the next CA, whenever that drops...
Some basic comparisons (not including Strategems, Chapter Tactics, Forge World and/or Kulturs):
(1) SM Devastator w/ Missile Launcher
* Infantry
* Krak Missile has the same weapon stats
* no 'Melta' and/or instant Crash & Burn versus flying vehicles
* no bonus to Hit Flyers
* ability to fire Frag Missiles also
* buff-able BS 3+
* T4 vs.T5 Traktor
* 1 Wound vs. 6 Wounds
* 3+ Sv vs. 5+ Sv * 38 points vs. 45 for the Traktor
(5-man) SM Devastator Squad w/ a Sgt & 4 Missile Launchers
* Infantry vs Vehicle, Artillery
* Squad of 5 vs. 4 independent models (after deployment)
* Krak Missile has the same weapon stats
* no 'Melta' and/or instant Crash & Burn versus flying vehicles
* no bonus to Hit Flyers
* ability to fire Frag Missiles also
* 4 - buff-able BS 3+ shots
* T4 vs.T5 Traktor
* 5 Wounds vs. 24 Wounds
* 3+ Sv vs. 5+ Sv * 165 points vs. 180 for 4 Traktor Kannon
SM Hunter tank (seriously though, what are the chances you'll ever see a Hunter on the field?)
* Tank
* 1 model vs. 2 independent models (after deployment)
* 60" vs. 48" Traktor range
* +1 Str & -3 AP compared to the Traktor, but only 1Shot vs. 2 Auto-hits
* no 'Melta' and/or instant Crash & Burn vs. flying vehicles
* +1 to hit Flyers and Reroll failed hits on Flyers
* buff-able, but degrading BS 3+
* T8 vs. T5 Traktor
* 11 Wounds vs. 6 Wounds
* 3+ Sv vs. 5+ Traktor
* 90 points vs. 90 for 2 Traktor Kannon
AdM Onager w/Icarus Array
* Crawler, Vehicle
* 1 model vs. 3 independent models (after deployment)
* Same range
* 3 Weapons with varying stats
- all 'weaker' then the Traktor (though the Daedalus is very close, being Heavy 1, S7, -3 AP, d6Dmg)
- 10 shots in total
- Potential for 14-19 Wounds
- Vs. 3-18 potential Wounds
* no 'Melta' and/or instant Crash & Burn vs. flying vehicles
* +1 to hit Flyers but -1 to hit non-Flyers
* Move and fire HW w/o -1 to Hit
* buff-able, but degrading BS 3+
* T7 vs. T5 Traktor
* 11 Wounds vs. 6 Wounds
* 3+ Sv (with a 5++) vs. 5+ Traktor
* 130 points vs. 135 for 3 Traktor Kannon
I'm serious when I say the Traktor Kannon is too good. There is no reason the most notoriously worst shooters in the lore & actual history of 40K should have a near perfect weapon.
A single unit of 6 Traktor Kannons with the Deathskullz Kultur is outright devastating. 6 Individual units each with an auto-hitting 'Krak Missile' that can each reroll a To Wound or Damage roll each of their shooting phases, for 270 points!
My suggestion would be to at least give it a chance to miss. Make Traktor Kannon hit on an unmodifiable BS 2+; which unfortunately would let it the benefit from DDD.
I was wondering how my poor Icarus Dunecrawler fared against that earlier today, thanks for making the comparison for us.
Don't forget the Traktor Cannons are autohit in Overwatch too, in case you wanted to counter them.
Yuck, didn't even consider overwatch
Automatically Appended Next Post:
lolman1c wrote: Okay, I put it to the test today and brought a bunch of boyz with no DS against a necron army! wel... erm... by turn 3 every boy was dead. Yeah... I'm kinda getting what people are saying. XD
I love how the 40k community have defined what people play as almolike a racial slur. Reminds me of "You Irish wouldn't know what a hards day work is!" My mum used to get told when she came to England. XD not like we're normal people who play more factions other than Orks. XD
I love it too but perhaps you love it sarcastically while I genuinely love the fact that people own their armies as if they identify with them. Thats immersion! However as a 40k player of many years and many editions i'm massively racist. I despise the entire eldar race! This new codex is definitely going to give us more tricks against them. In general now that the hype has subsided over new rule syndrome its looking positive but definitely not OP.
but then trying to buy a Mek gun kit from GW nowadays is an exercise in futility, Everyone be trak kannon mad these days. I can't buy a smasha gun for love nor money
I don't. I'm just a normal person who sees this as a game and an excuse to argue about something online that I personally don't really feel that angry about in real life. XD Don't know if that though is normal.
Last edition I created ~9 Mekguns from 2 Trukk boxes and my bitz box. The only problem was getting a hold of ~45 grots...
Not quite. I believe someone did the math in the tactics thread, and the KMK actually performs a little better against T8 and higher. Not by much though.
Only if the target has a 4+ save or worse and no Invul. The Smasha wins out per point even against the KMK if it can utilise its full AP-4.
Bah, that's right, it has -4AP.
Which is pretty nuts for a 16 point weapon. Not even Gauss Cannons are that cheap, and they are -3AP.
Smashas are 31 points (you have to count the cost of the base unit, it's not like it's going to be doing anything else) with pretty poor defense (T5 5+) and no mobility. They're good, but not game changing (outside of giving orks a decent long range shooting unit).
The main issue people are going to run into is killing them with their souped-up knight castellan, which can only explode two of them a round, a sad 62 pt return for those used to reaping hundreds of points a shooting phase.
Traktors are really only decent if shooting at their preferred prey (flyers/stacked -to hit penalties), otherwise they are pretty underwhelming. They do about half as much damage per point to most other targets. And their overwatch should kill one random infantryman, then they never get to shoot again.
Yes, they are 31 points each in total.
That's roughly half the cost of a KMK Mek Gun (60 points). Two of them are 62 points and are slightly more efficient against the targets you want the KMK to go against.
If they were 36 points then it wouldn't be as cost effective, as you'd be paying 72 points for a marginal increase in damage.
Its an internal balance thing, not external balance.
Aren't Traktor Kannon 45ppm?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/11/15 12:53:38
"The only problem with your genepool is that there wasn't a lifeguard on duty to prevent you from swimming."
"You either die a Morty, or you live long enough to see yourself become a Rick."
Lord Clinto wrote: Imo, one of the most underwhelmed/unsung units in the codex will be the Traktor Kannon Mek Gun.
First off NOTHING other then flamer-type weapons should be auto hit AND especially not an Ork (of all races) shooting something up to 48" away.
Heavy 1, S8, AP-2, D6Dmg (effectively Melta against Flying Vehicles and auto crash and burn if the Flyer is destroyed) AUTOHITTING! for 45 points!
Now, don't get me wrong, it's a very Orky weapon but autohit????? that is just wrong. I could see giving it a bonus to hit flyers, even a +2 to hit; but auto hit anything within 48"...what about when targeting something other then a flyer? Shouldn't intervening models interfere with shooting this weapon? Nope...
Its one shot for 45 points at S8 -2AP.
Its not that impressive. You need at least 2 if you want to have some real impact and reliable damage output..
If it weren't for the auto-hit it would be crap.
You forgot the 1D6 damage. I don't think it's overpowered currently but I really need to see an "Ork Artillery" list in action first.
No, I didn't forget. All of the mek gun options are 1D6 damage.
Only the traktor cannon has 1 shot.
I think people are missing the point: An Auto-hitting 'Krak-Missile' that is 'Melta' versus flying vehicles; for only a few points more than a single SM Devastator with a ML!
And yes I do realize that SM are a little over-priced at the moment and will hopefully see a slight points adjustment in the next CA, whenever that drops...
Some basic comparisons (not including Strategems, Chapter Tactics, Forge World and/or Kulturs):
(1) SM Devastator w/ Missile Launcher
* Infantry
* Krak Missile has the same weapon stats
* no 'Melta' and/or instant Crash & Burn versus flying vehicles
* no bonus to Hit Flyers
* ability to fire Frag Missiles also
* buff-able BS 3+
* T4 vs.T5 Traktor
* 1 Wound vs. 6 Wounds
* 3+ Sv vs. 5+ Sv * 38 points vs. 45 for the Traktor
(5-man) SM Devastator Squad w/ a Sgt & 4 Missile Launchers
* Infantry vs Vehicle, Artillery
* Squad of 5 vs. 4 independent models (after deployment)
* Krak Missile has the same weapon stats
* no 'Melta' and/or instant Crash & Burn versus flying vehicles
* no bonus to Hit Flyers
* ability to fire Frag Missiles also
* 4 - buff-able BS 3+ shots
* T4 vs.T5 Traktor
* 5 Wounds vs. 24 Wounds
* 3+ Sv vs. 5+ Sv * 165 points vs. 180 for 4 Traktor Kannon
SM Hunter tank (seriously though, what are the chances you'll ever see a Hunter on the field?)
* Tank
* 1 model vs. 2 independent models (after deployment)
* 60" vs. 48" Traktor range
* +1 Str & -3 AP compared to the Traktor, but only 1Shot vs. 2 Auto-hits
* no 'Melta' and/or instant Crash & Burn vs. flying vehicles
* +1 to hit Flyers and Reroll failed hits on Flyers
* buff-able, but degrading BS 3+
* T8 vs. T5 Traktor
* 11 Wounds vs. 6 Wounds
* 3+ Sv vs. 5+ Traktor
* 90 points vs. 90 for 2 Traktor Kannon
AdM Onager w/Icarus Array
* Crawler, Vehicle
* 1 model vs. 3 independent models (after deployment)
* Same range
* 3 Weapons with varying stats
- all 'weaker' then the Traktor (though the Daedalus is very close, being Heavy 1, S7, -3 AP, d6Dmg)
- 10 shots in total
- Potential for 14-19 Wounds
- Vs. 3-18 potential Wounds
* no 'Melta' and/or instant Crash & Burn vs. flying vehicles
* +1 to hit Flyers but -1 to hit non-Flyers
* Move and fire HW w/o -1 to Hit
* buff-able, but degrading BS 3+
* T7 vs. T5 Traktor
* 11 Wounds vs. 6 Wounds
* 3+ Sv (with a 5++) vs. 5+ Traktor
* 130 points vs. 135 for 3 Traktor Kannon
I'm serious when I say the Traktor Kannon is too good. There is no reason the most notoriously worst shooters in the lore & actual history of 40K should have a near perfect weapon.
A single unit of 6 Traktor Kannons with the Deathskullz Kultur is outright devastating. 6 Individual units each with an auto-hitting 'Krak Missile' that can each reroll a To Wound or Damage roll each of their shooting phases, for 270 points!
My suggestion would be to at least give it a chance to miss. Make Traktor Kannon hit on an unmodifiable BS 2+; which unfortunately would let it the benefit from DDD.
Mek Gunz do not benefit from Kulturs. You seemed to have left out the fact that Mek Gunz only have 5+ armor and no character keyword. If you are in range of them you can shred away those 6 wounds easily.
They are not OP. Just because it hits doesn't mean its going to wound. And its only 2d6 pick the highest against vehicle flyers. Against every other unit its just D6.
They are good at what they do, but they are not auto-include.
I was wondering how my poor Icarus Dunecrawler fared against that earlier today, thanks for making the comparison for us.
Don't forget the Traktor Cannons are autohit in Overwatch too, in case you wanted to counter them.
With one shot. And its a single unit. Mek Gunz are bought in a group, but are used separately. So if you charge one mek gun, only that mek gun can overwatch.
My bad there, I didn't realize that they didn't benefit from the Kulturs.
And I'd like to say that while Mekgunz are a 'glass-cannon' type unit without the Character Trait...what commander in their right mind would target a single, 1-shot-per-turn artillery piece when there are so many other higher-priority targets on the field?
* Lootas?
* Battlewagon mounted Tankbustas?
* Nob Bikerz?
* Tellaporta'd 'Naut with mounted Mega Nobz?
* a Bad Moon Dakkajet pumping out 18 shots at a single target (hitting on 4+, rerolling 1's, with DDD)?
Seriously, this codex is so full of dangerous units if I wasn't so invested in SW, GK, AdM, IK, Necrons and Demons I'd restart an Ork army...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/15 13:11:14
"The only problem with your genepool is that there wasn't a lifeguard on duty to prevent you from swimming."
"You either die a Morty, or you live long enough to see yourself become a Rick."
Nym wrote: If you guys could stop talking nonsense for a moment, that would be great.
Firstly, Traktor kannons do NOT benefit from the Deathskulls kulture.
Secondly, a Traktor kannon is 45pts for a single auto-hitting S8 AP-2 D6 hit. A Smasha Gun is 31pts for 2 BS4+ S7.5 AP-4 D6 shots. Guess what ? The Smash Gun actually outperforms the Traktor kannon by a huuuuuge margin, unless the target is -2 to hit or -1 AND T8 (which, AFAIK, doesn't exist without Psychic powers).
If you want to get mad at something, get mad at Smash Guns.
Yeah. Also worth noting that trakktor kannons have absolutely zero way to get any rerolls. The "grots" rule actually disallows them from using the tactical reroll stratagem because they can only use strats if it specifically says gretchins can use them.
The only strat in the whole game they can use is "save an ork infantry unit from taking a single wound, then auto-die."
Pretty typical dakka kneejerk "OMGWTFBBQ This unit is BETTER than a MARINE UNIT that's been terrible all edition?!?!?!? SURELY IT WILL DESTROY ALL I LOOOOOVE"
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2018/11/15 14:11:25
Subject: So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
Yeah. Also worth noting that trakktor kannons have absolutely zero way to get any rerolls. The "grots" rule actually disallows them from using the tactical reroll stratagem because they can only use strats if it specifically says gretchins can use them.
I disagree. The Grots rule says "In addition, Ork Stratagems can only be used on these units if the Stratagem explicitly states so (e.g. the ‘Grot Shields’ Stratagem)."
The generic Battle-forged strategems are not ORK Strategems.
2018/11/15 14:18:08
Subject: So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
I think Smashas could destroy all I love.
Can't see why competitive Orks wouldn't bring 18 of them.
Except that acquiring 18 is expensive, and I feel they are likely to be nerfed (making them 1-3 per entry rather than 1-6 would do too).
2018/11/15 14:32:33
Subject: Re:So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
Lord Clinto wrote: My bad there, I didn't realize that they didn't benefit from the Kulturs.
This quote could be a summary of the thread. The uninformed making assumptions about things they have little to no knowledge of.
Lord Clinto wrote: And I'd like to say that while Mekgunz are a 'glass-cannon' type unit without the Character Trait...what commander in their right mind would target a single, 1-shot-per-turn artillery piece when there are so many other higher-priority targets on the field?
An intelligent one? One that understands how to play against and counter Orks effectively?
Let's look at these "high priority targets, shall we?
Battlewagon is 120 pts. Tankbustas are 17ppm. I assume you'd fill the wagon, so 20 of them (which means no Squigs)? That's 460 pts. If the Battlewagon takes no guns, no melee weapons and no auxiliary items.
Ahahahahahahaha. Oh, you're being serious? At 38 ppm for a T5, 4+, 3W unit they are garbage. That's without any weapon upgrades by the way so add on points if you want a PK or BC.
Lord Clinto wrote: * a Bad Moon Dakkajet pumping out 18 shots at a single target (hitting on 4+, rerolling 1's, with DDD)?
18 Str 6 -1 AP shots. Castellans everywhere quake in their mechanical boots!
Lord Clinto wrote: Seriously, this codex is so full of dangerous units if I wasn't so invested in SW, GK, AdM, IK, Necrons and Demons I'd restart an Ork army...
I'm sure it is, but you've yet to name any of them... Tellyporting Naut is your closest bet, but doesn't explain why you can't kill those Mek guns turn 1?
2018/11/15 14:36:20
Subject: So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
Englishman, I agree with most of what you've said here (unusual for me) but...do you usually look at Knight Castellans to gauge the effectiveness of your anti infantry shooting units?
"wow guardsmen get 4 S3 AP- shots I'm so impressed that's going to do sooooooooo much damage to a knight..."
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2018/11/15 14:45:51
Subject: So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
the_scotsman wrote: Englishman, I agree with most of what you've said here (unusual for me) but...do you usually look at Knight Castellans to gauge the effectiveness of your anti infantry shooting units?
"wow guardsmen get 4 S3 AP- shots I'm so impressed that's going to do sooooooooo much damage to a knight..."
Scotsman do you think I look at the Dakkajet as an Anti Castellan tool? Or do you think it's a not-so-subtle comment on the prevalence of Knights in the meta and how the Dakkajet isn't well suited for competitive play because other Ork units perform the same role (as you've said, Anti Infantry) better and provide CP to boot? I'll let you decide.
2018/11/15 14:52:43
Subject: Re:So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
Lord Clinto wrote: My bad there, I didn't realize that they didn't benefit from the Kulturs.
This quote could be a summary of the thread. The uninformed making assumptions about things they have little to no knowledge of.
Lord Clinto wrote: And I'd like to say that while Mekgunz are a 'glass-cannon' type unit without the Character Trait...what commander in their right mind would target a single, 1-shot-per-turn artillery piece when there are so many other higher-priority targets on the field?
An intelligent one? One that understands how to play against and counter Orks effectively?
Let's look at these "high priority targets, shall we?
Battlewagon is 120 pts. Tankbustas are 17ppm. I assume you'd fill the wagon, so 20 of them (which means no Squigs)? That's 460 pts. If the Battlewagon takes no guns, no melee weapons and no auxiliary items.
Ahahahahahahaha. Oh, you're being serious? At 38 ppm for a T5, 4+, 3W unit they are garbage. That's without any weapon upgrades by the way so add on points if you want a PK or BC.
Lord Clinto wrote: * a Bad Moon Dakkajet pumping out 18 shots at a single target (hitting on 4+, rerolling 1's, with DDD)?
18 Str 6 -1 AP shots. Castellans everywhere quake in their mechanical boots!
Lord Clinto wrote: Seriously, this codex is so full of dangerous units if I wasn't so invested in SW, GK, AdM, IK, Necrons and Demons I'd restart an Ork army...
I'm sure it is, but you've yet to name any of them... Tellyporting Naut is your closest bet, but doesn't explain why you can't kill those Mek guns turn 1?
English we get you waited a long time for this codex and it is your times to shine. Nothing in this is going to be nerfed so you don't need to defend.
There is no need to ignore the fact the codex is over buffed though.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2018/11/15 14:54:04
Subject: So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
the_scotsman wrote: Englishman, I agree with most of what you've said here (unusual for me) but...do you usually look at Knight Castellans to gauge the effectiveness of your anti infantry shooting units?
"wow guardsmen get 4 S3 AP- shots I'm so impressed that's going to do sooooooooo much damage to a knight..."
Scotsman do you think I look at the Dakkajet as an Anti Castellan tool? Or do you think it's a not-so-subtle comment on the prevalence of Knights in the meta and how the Dakkajet isn't well suited for competitive play because other Ork units perform the same role (as you've said, Anti Infantry) better and provide CP to boot? I'll let you decide.
depends on what kind of army you're running I guess. If you're running a detachment of one of the shooting focused clans, I'd say a Dakkajet would make a good anti-infantry platform. If you're running evil sunz, sure, ork boyz are your go to chaff clearer, but for other clans you want to generate your Cp with gretchins and kill infantry with other units...like dakkajets.
Just pointing out the general dishonesty of sarcastically implying that an anti-infantry model is bad because it doesn't hurt knights.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2018/11/15 14:54:08
Subject: So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
Nym wrote: If you guys could stop talking nonsense for a moment, that would be great.
Firstly, Traktor kannons do NOT benefit from the Deathskulls kulture.
Secondly, a Traktor kannon is 45pts for a single auto-hitting S8 AP-2 D6 hit. A Smasha Gun is 31pts for 2 BS4+ S7.5 AP-4 D6 shots. Guess what ? The Smash Gun actually outperforms the Traktor kannon by a huuuuuge margin, unless the target is -2 to hit or -1 AND T8 (which, AFAIK, doesn't exist without Psychic powers).
If you want to get mad at something, get mad at Smash Guns.
Yeah. Also worth noting that trakktor kannons have absolutely zero way to get any rerolls. The "grots" rule actually disallows them from using the tactical reroll stratagem because they can only use strats if it specifically says gretchins can use them.
The only strat in the whole game they can use is "save an ork infantry unit from taking a single wound, then auto-die."
Pretty typical dakka kneejerk "OMGWTFBBQ This unit is BETTER than a MARINE UNIT that's been terrible all edition?!?!?!? SURELY IT WILL DESTROY ALL I LOOOOOVE"
*3
Both guns have use in the orc army. Its like comparing apples with oranges.
TK is more guarantee wounds vs T8 and do more dmg vs flyers.
Smash gun is better vs lower toughness units and especially units that don`t have invulnerable save.
Vs armies with negative to hit modifiers TK should perform better and have better chance to do dmg vs T8 models.
SG will do more vs lower toughness models.
2018/11/15 14:57:16
Subject: Re:So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
Lord Clinto wrote: My bad there, I didn't realize that they didn't benefit from the Kulturs.
This quote could be a summary of the thread. The uninformed making assumptions about things they have little to no knowledge of.
Lord Clinto wrote: And I'd like to say that while Mekgunz are a 'glass-cannon' type unit without the Character Trait...what commander in their right mind would target a single, 1-shot-per-turn artillery piece when there are so many other higher-priority targets on the field?
An intelligent one? One that understands how to play against and counter Orks effectively?
Let's look at these "high priority targets, shall we?
Battlewagon is 120 pts. Tankbustas are 17ppm. I assume you'd fill the wagon, so 20 of them (which means no Squigs)? That's 460 pts. If the Battlewagon takes no guns, no melee weapons and no auxiliary items.
Ahahahahahahaha. Oh, you're being serious? At 38 ppm for a T5, 4+, 3W unit they are garbage. That's without any weapon upgrades by the way so add on points if you want a PK or BC.
Lord Clinto wrote: * a Bad Moon Dakkajet pumping out 18 shots at a single target (hitting on 4+, rerolling 1's, with DDD)?
18 Str 6 -1 AP shots. Castellans everywhere quake in their mechanical boots!
Lord Clinto wrote: Seriously, this codex is so full of dangerous units if I wasn't so invested in SW, GK, AdM, IK, Necrons and Demons I'd restart an Ork army...
I'm sure it is, but you've yet to name any of them... Tellyporting Naut is your closest bet, but doesn't explain why you can't kill those Mek guns turn 1?
English we get you waited a long time for this codex and it is your times to shine. Nothing in this is going to be nerfed so you don't need to defend.
There is no need to ignore the fact the codex is over buffed though.
Nope, when an army that wasn't good gets buffed all the professional complainers have to either disappear into thin air or become professional apologists for that army complaining about people who complain about them. And Xeno I expect you to remember that rule when Marine Codex 2 comes out and marines get their 1+ armor saves and get dropped down to 5ppm, you have to switch over to spending all your time telling people to just bring plasma when that happens.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2018/11/15 15:04:50
Subject: Re:So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
If marine 2.0 comes out . Plus - orks weren't actually bad. They outperformed many codex.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/15 15:08:38
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2018/11/15 15:05:48
Subject: So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
Nym wrote: If you guys could stop talking nonsense for a moment, that would be great.
Firstly, Traktor kannons do NOT benefit from the Deathskulls kulture.
Secondly, a Traktor kannon is 45pts for a single auto-hitting S8 AP-2 D6 hit. A Smasha Gun is 31pts for 2 BS4+ S7.5 AP-4 D6 shots. Guess what ? The Smash Gun actually outperforms the Traktor kannon by a huuuuuge margin, unless the target is -2 to hit or -1 AND T8 (which, AFAIK, doesn't exist without Psychic powers).
If you want to get mad at something, get mad at Smash Guns.
Yeah. Also worth noting that trakktor kannons have absolutely zero way to get any rerolls. The "grots" rule actually disallows them from using the tactical reroll stratagem because they can only use strats if it specifically says gretchins can use them.
The only strat in the whole game they can use is "save an ork infantry unit from taking a single wound, then auto-die."
Pretty typical dakka kneejerk "OMGWTFBBQ This unit is BETTER than a MARINE UNIT that's been terrible all edition?!?!?!? SURELY IT WILL DESTROY ALL I LOOOOOVE"
Reread the Grots rule. It says they can't use Ork Stratagems. They can still use the generic strats from the rulebook.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/15 15:08:48
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2018/11/15 15:13:31
Subject: Re:So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
Lord Clinto wrote: Imo, one of the most underwhelmed/unsung units in the codex will be the Traktor Kannon Mek Gun.
First off NOTHING other then flamer-type weapons should be auto hit AND especially not an Ork (of all races) shooting something up to 48" away.
Heavy 1, S8, AP-2, D6Dmg (effectively Melta against Flying Vehicles and auto crash and burn if the Flyer is destroyed) AUTOHITTING! for 45 points!
Now, don't get me wrong, it's a very Orky weapon but autohit????? that is just wrong. I could see giving it a bonus to hit flyers, even a +2 to hit; but auto hit anything within 48"...what about when targeting something other then a flyer? Shouldn't intervening models interfere with shooting this weapon? Nope...
Its one shot for 45 points at S8 -2AP. Its not that impressive. You need at least 2 if you want to have some real impact and reliable damage output.. If it weren't for the auto-hit it would be crap.
You forgot the 1D6 damage. I don't think it's overpowered currently but I really need to see an "Ork Artillery" list in action first.
No, I didn't forget. All of the mek gun options are 1D6 damage. Only the traktor cannon has 1 shot.
I think people are missing the point: An Auto-hitting 'Krak-Missile' that is 'Melta' versus flying vehicles; for only a few points more than a single SM Devastator with a ML!
And yes I do realize that SM are a little over-priced at the moment and will hopefully see a slight points adjustment in the next CA, whenever that drops...
Some basic comparisons (not including Strategems, Chapter Tactics, Forge World and/or Kulturs):
(1) SM Devastator w/ Missile Launcher * Infantry * Krak Missile has the same weapon stats * no 'Melta' and/or instant Crash & Burn versus flying vehicles * no bonus to Hit Flyers * ability to fire Frag Missiles also * buff-able BS 3+ * T4 vs.T5 Traktor * 1 Wound vs. 6 Wounds * 3+ Sv vs. 5+ Sv * 38 points vs. 45 for the Traktor
(5-man) SM Devastator Squad w/ a Sgt & 4 Missile Launchers * Infantry vs Vehicle, Artillery * Squad of 5 vs. 4 independent models (after deployment) * Krak Missile has the same weapon stats * no 'Melta' and/or instant Crash & Burn versus flying vehicles * no bonus to Hit Flyers * ability to fire Frag Missiles also * 4 - buff-able BS 3+ shots * T4 vs.T5 Traktor * 5 Wounds vs. 24 Wounds * 3+ Sv vs. 5+ Sv * 165 points vs. 180 for 4 Traktor Kannon
SM Hunter tank (seriously though, what are the chances you'll ever see a Hunter on the field?) * Tank * 1 model vs. 2 independent models (after deployment) * 60" vs. 48" Traktor range * +1 Str & -3 AP compared to the Traktor, but only 1Shot vs. 2 Auto-hits * no 'Melta' and/or instant Crash & Burn vs. flying vehicles * +1 to hit Flyers and Reroll failed hits on Flyers * buff-able, but degrading BS 3+ * T8 vs. T5 Traktor * 11 Wounds vs. 6 Wounds * 3+ Sv vs. 5+ Traktor * 90 points vs. 90 for 2 Traktor Kannon
AdM Onager w/Icarus Array * Crawler, Vehicle * 1 model vs. 3 independent models (after deployment) * Same range * 3 Weapons with varying stats - all 'weaker' then the Traktor (though the Daedalus is very close, being Heavy 1, S7, -3 AP, d6Dmg) - 10 shots in total - Potential for 14-19 Wounds - Vs. 3-18 potential Wounds * no 'Melta' and/or instant Crash & Burn vs. flying vehicles * +1 to hit Flyers but -1 to hit non-Flyers * Move and fire HW w/o -1 to Hit * buff-able, but degrading BS 3+ * T7 vs. T5 Traktor * 11 Wounds vs. 6 Wounds * 3+ Sv (with a 5++) vs. 5+ Traktor * 130 points vs. 135 for 3 Traktor Kannon
I'm serious when I say the Traktor Kannon is too good. There is no reason the most notoriously worst shooters in the lore & actual history of 40K should have a near perfect weapon.
A single unit of 6 Traktor Kannons with the Deathskullz Kultur is outright devastating. 6 Individual units each with an auto-hitting 'Krak Missile' that can each reroll a To Wound or Damage roll each of their shooting phases, for 270 points!
My suggestion would be to at least give it a chance to miss. Make Traktor Kannon hit on an unmodifiable BS 2+; which unfortunately would let it the benefit from DDD.
Mek Gunz do not benefit from Kulturs. You seemed to have left out the fact that Mek Gunz only have 5+ armor and no character keyword. If you are in range of them you can shred away those 6 wounds easily. They are not OP. Just because it hits doesn't mean its going to wound. And its only 2d6 pick the highest against vehicle flyers. Against every other unit its just D6. They are good at what they do, but they are not auto-include.
I was wondering how my poor Icarus Dunecrawler fared against that earlier today, thanks for making the comparison for us.
Don't forget the Traktor Cannons are autohit in Overwatch too, in case you wanted to counter them.
With one shot. And its a single unit. Mek Gunz are bought in a group, but are used separately. So if you charge one mek gun, only that mek gun can overwatch.
My bad there, I didn't realize that they didn't benefit from the Kulturs.
And I'd like to say that while Mekgunz are a 'glass-cannon' type unit without the Character Trait...what commander in their right mind would target a single, 1-shot-per-turn artillery piece when there are so many other higher-priority targets on the field? * Lootas? * Battlewagon mounted Tankbustas? * Nob Bikerz? * Tellaporta'd 'Naut with mounted Mega Nobz? * a Bad Moon Dakkajet pumping out 18 shots at a single target (hitting on 4+, rerolling 1's, with DDD)?
Seriously, this codex is so full of dangerous units if I wasn't so invested in SW, GK, AdM, IK, Necrons and Demons I'd restart an Ork army...
If they want first blood they totally would. Its 6 wounds with a 5+ save, and I think destroying one counts as first blood. The Mek Gunz rule says they are separate units for all rules purposes, and that sounds like it applies to First Blood to me.
Loots are overpriced for what they are. 5 of them is 85, 40 points more than a traktor cannon, and they aren't that great at shooting due to the variable number of shots and 5+ to hit. If you can get 15 shots that's like 5 hits on average. At S7. They aren't quite as cost effective as a traktor kannon.
A battlewagon filled with tankbustas is scary, but also expensive and hard to kill. If you want to get FB or kill something quickly to limit casualties before the wagon gets in range the mek gunz are still better targets. Even if its placed in the tellyporta you still have 1 turn to react and kill something.
Nob Bikerz still need to get in range and are a bit expensive. Also harder to kill than a traktor cannon.
How are you going to shoot a 'naut if its not on the table?
Flyers are a joke, no one actually takes them. If a unit can be destroyed or zoned off just by your opponent moving, then its a gak unit. The damage output may seem fine, until you find that you can't actually move the unit to where it needs to go, or its forced off the table because it has to move at least 20" and make 90 degree turns. After which it dies immediately because ongoing reserves isn't a thing anymore. Flyers are a holdover from 7th ed, and it shows. What makes Traktor Kannons appealing is that it affects VEHICLES with the FLY keyword, not just units that have the FLYER battlefield role. Which means they are effective against skimmers, such as Necron vehicles, Eldar Vehicles, Dark Eldar Vehicles, Tau Vehicles, Imperial Flyers that are hovering (which is what all Flyers should do, but anyway)
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/11/15 15:34:47
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2018/11/15 15:33:05
Subject: So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
the_scotsman wrote: Englishman, I agree with most of what you've said here (unusual for me) but...do you usually look at Knight Castellans to gauge the effectiveness of your anti infantry shooting units?
"wow guardsmen get 4 S3 AP- shots I'm so impressed that's going to do sooooooooo much damage to a knight..."
Scotsman do you think I look at the Dakkajet as an Anti Castellan tool? Or do you think it's a not-so-subtle comment on the prevalence of Knights in the meta and how the Dakkajet isn't well suited for competitive play because other Ork units perform the same role (as you've said, Anti Infantry) better and provide CP to boot? I'll let you decide.
Basically this and every other thread saying how their faction is under powered basically ends up with the conclusion: "actually, our faction isn't that bad we're just fighting a meta that's stupid and unfortunately many people play *cough, knights and soup*"
Really, most eldar armies and even nids (two powerful dexs) play pretty casual and I only really see cheese at the highest tournaments but I go to a GW store in my spare time to buy paints and count at least 6 knights every time.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Xenomancers wrote: If marine 2.0 comes out . Plus - orks weren't actually bad. They outperformed many codex.
I swear you're just trolling at this point.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/15 15:36:16
2018/11/15 15:45:30
Subject: So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
I honestly think the ork codex is well written, in that our best stuff got more expensive, and our worst stuff got cheaper, and everything kind of met in the middle. It's a decent codex, somewhere inbetween the tyranid and necrons.
What it isn't was a codex like IG or DE, where EVERYTHING got cheaper and EVERYTHING got better. Those are poorly written codexes, even if they are amazing.
But orks didn't really get anything that's in any way OP. Falling back is still easily abused, and easily our greatest enemy in 8th.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/15 15:46:04
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Words to live by.
2018/11/15 15:47:17
Subject: So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
Necrons aren't decent though. There is no synergy and everything feels overpriced. Trying to build a necron list is an exercise in frustration, as you can't actually build what you want because everything costs too much and you have limited options.
Look on the bright side...they can only take 18 of them.
/shudder My whole body just convulsed there. lol
18 traktor cannons is 810 points. You aren't going to be facing that many on a regular basis, and if you are playing at that sort of points level there would usually be super heavies and what not on the table.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/15 15:49:29
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2018/11/15 15:51:12
Subject: So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
Elbows wrote: I started saying it when the rumours came out...it's a really strong book. Extremely strong in many instances. If not a meta-toppling book, it's a good example of tremendous codex creep. It won't stop Ork players from complaining, but you will see some extremely stout performances in the tournament scene. If anything they're strong enough to be unfun to play in narrative or casual games with a strong build.
I think it might actually be meta toppling. Traktor kannons, turn 1 charges with durable units, and 3D6 charges with T8 vehicles out of deepstrike presents difficult problems for many lists.
sfshilo wrote: This is the strongest codex so far and it's going to pan out in the ITC circuit.
An already decent index army got totally pimped out. Glad there is an "opt out of combat" option in the ITC rules, figuring out 30+ models worth of dice will be a pain lol.
Xenomancers wrote: It's hands down the best codex released so far. The power creep is real.
Lol.
Orks have yet to win anything of note but so many of you are convinced that the codex is the best of this edition
Meanwhile IG, Knights, a type of Marine and various Aeldari have been dominating the meta for months and people have defended each and every one of those factions.
Don't ever change dakka.
Perhaps wait until you have some evidence to back up these wild claims?
Orks won major events without a codex. We are able to READ and do some pretty simple math to understand how good this codex is.
This codex will have to be nerfed, it is as good meta wise as the 7th ed Tau codex. Which EVERYONE told me was not overpowered just like you are saying now about this ork codex.
A simple test is just the power level. Nearly every 2000 point list I make is clocking in at 120 power level........that is nuts.
2018/11/15 16:27:51
Subject: So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
the_scotsman wrote: Englishman, I agree with most of what you've said here (unusual for me) but...do you usually look at Knight Castellans to gauge the effectiveness of your anti infantry shooting units?
"wow guardsmen get 4 S3 AP- shots I'm so impressed that's going to do sooooooooo much damage to a knight..."
Scotsman do you think I look at the Dakkajet as an Anti Castellan tool? Or do you think it's a not-so-subtle comment on the prevalence of Knights in the meta and how the Dakkajet isn't well suited for competitive play because other Ork units perform the same role (as you've said, Anti Infantry) better and provide CP to boot? I'll let you decide.
Basically this and every other thread saying how their faction is under powered basically ends up with the conclusion: "actually, our faction isn't that bad we're just fighting a meta that's stupid and unfortunately many people play *cough, knights and soup*"
Really, most eldar armies and even nids (two powerful dexs) play pretty casual and I only really see cheese at the highest tournaments but I go to a GW store in my spare time to buy paints and count at least 6 knights every time.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Xenomancers wrote: If marine 2.0 comes out . Plus - orks weren't actually bad. They outperformed many codex.
I swear you're just trolling at this point.
Stating facts is now trolling?
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2018/11/15 16:35:15
Subject: So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
Elbows wrote: I started saying it when the rumours came out...it's a really strong book. Extremely strong in many instances. If not a meta-toppling book, it's a good example of tremendous codex creep. It won't stop Ork players from complaining, but you will see some extremely stout performances in the tournament scene. If anything they're strong enough to be unfun to play in narrative or casual games with a strong build.
I think it might actually be meta toppling. Traktor kannons, turn 1 charges with durable units, and 3D6 charges with T8 vehicles out of deepstrike presents difficult problems for many lists.
sfshilo wrote: This is the strongest codex so far and it's going to pan out in the ITC circuit.
An already decent index army got totally pimped out. Glad there is an "opt out of combat" option in the ITC rules, figuring out 30+ models worth of dice will be a pain lol.
Xenomancers wrote: It's hands down the best codex released so far. The power creep is real.
Lol.
Orks have yet to win anything of note but so many of you are convinced that the codex is the best of this edition
Meanwhile IG, Knights, a type of Marine and various Aeldari have been dominating the meta for months and people have defended each and every one of those factions.
Don't ever change dakka.
Perhaps wait until you have some evidence to back up these wild claims?
Orks won major events without a codex. We are able to READ and do some pretty simple math to understand how good this codex is.
This codex will have to be nerfed, it is as good meta wise as the 7th ed Tau codex. Which EVERYONE told me was not overpowered just like you are saying now about this ork codex.
A simple test is just the power level. Nearly every 2000 point list I make is clocking in at 120 power level........that is nuts.
Okay, now i know you're trolling.
But for anyone reading this above and belives it blindly I want you to remember that context is key. Could someone kindly name all the tournaments they won, and, most importantly, how they won the tournaments (ie, how many boyz and on what turn did they win).
2018/11/15 16:40:20
Subject: So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
I'm just going to let the results in the next couple of months speak for themselves. Orks are going to leave a huge mark on competitive 40k with this dex. Probably a bigger mark than knights did.
Don't need to prove anything. I'm stating an opinion.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2018/11/15 16:41:26
Subject: So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
Xenomancers wrote: I'm just going to let the results in the next couple of months speak for themselves. Orks are going to leave a huge mark on competitive 40k with this dex. Probably a bigger mark than knights did.
Don't need to prove anything. I'm stating an opinion.
we shall see... but if I'm correct you ow me some grots! If I'm wrong I ow you nothing cus I'm greedy.
2018/11/15 16:42:06
Subject: So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
Elbows wrote: I started saying it when the rumours came out...it's a really strong book. Extremely strong in many instances. If not a meta-toppling book, it's a good example of tremendous codex creep. It won't stop Ork players from complaining, but you will see some extremely stout performances in the tournament scene. If anything they're strong enough to be unfun to play in narrative or casual games with a strong build.
I think it might actually be meta toppling. Traktor kannons, turn 1 charges with durable units, and 3D6 charges with T8 vehicles out of deepstrike presents difficult problems for many lists.
sfshilo wrote: This is the strongest codex so far and it's going to pan out in the ITC circuit.
An already decent index army got totally pimped out. Glad there is an "opt out of combat" option in the ITC rules, figuring out 30+ models worth of dice will be a pain lol.
Xenomancers wrote: It's hands down the best codex released so far. The power creep is real.
Lol.
Orks have yet to win anything of note but so many of you are convinced that the codex is the best of this edition
Meanwhile IG, Knights, a type of Marine and various Aeldari have been dominating the meta for months and people have defended each and every one of those factions.
Don't ever change dakka.
Perhaps wait until you have some evidence to back up these wild claims?
Orks won major events without a codex. We are able to READ and do some pretty simple math to understand how good this codex is.
This codex will have to be nerfed, it is as good meta wise as the 7th ed Tau codex. Which EVERYONE told me was not overpowered just like you are saying now about this ork codex.
A simple test is just the power level. Nearly every 2000 point list I make is clocking in at 120 power level........that is nuts.
wait...what? You gauge the competitiveness of a list based on the power level of units you can take at a given points level?
I am so confused here. Do you know how power levels work in relation to wargear? Because the following is a 200PL list:
Primaris Chaplain
Primaris Chaplain
6x Deathwatch Veterans with boltguns
6x Deathwatch Veterans with boltguns
6x Deathwatch Veterans with boltguns
6x Deathwatch Veterans with boltguns
6x Deathwatch Veterans with boltguns
6x Deathwatch Veterans with boltguns
6x Terminators with Powerfist and Storm Bolter
6x Terminators with Powerfist and Storm Bolter
6x Terminators with Powerfist and Storm Bolter
4x Bikers with boltguns
4x Bikers with boltguns
4x Bikers with boltguns
2000pts, 198 power. Have I shattered the competitive 40k meta? That power level is OvErNiNeThOuSaNd!!!!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/15 16:43:04
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2018/11/15 16:44:13
Subject: So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
Xenomancers wrote: I'm just going to let the results in the next couple of months speak for themselves. Orks are going to leave a huge mark on competitive 40k with this dex. Probably a bigger mark than knights did.
Don't need to prove anything. I'm stating an opinion.
we shall see... but if I'm correct you ow me some grots! If I'm wrong I ow you nothing cus I'm greedy.
I'll give you some free wins against my space marines.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2018/11/15 16:48:33
Subject: So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
Xenomancers wrote: I'm just going to let the results in the next couple of months speak for themselves. Orks are going to leave a huge mark on competitive 40k with this dex. Probably a bigger mark than knights did.
Don't need to prove anything. I'm stating an opinion.
we shall see... but if I'm correct you ow me some grots! If I'm wrong I ow you nothing cus I'm greedy.
I'll give you some free wins against my space marines.
Dude I play fluffy space marines I give everyone free wins all the time. Apart from my index orks... I somehow always destroyed them.
No but seriously, i did a 2k tournament with my evil sunz orks in the index and it was not even funny. One guy looked at me and said "this wasn't a fun game" like he was ashamed to even win (T2 everything was dead... i didn't even think that was possible. I thought that was a joke dakkadakka made up).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/15 16:51:18
2018/11/15 16:53:28
Subject: So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
Orks have yet to win anything of note but so many of you are convinced that the codex is the best of this edition
Meanwhile IG, Knights, a type of Marine and various Aeldari have been dominating the meta for months and people have defended each and every one of those factions.
Don't ever change dakka.
Perhaps wait until you have some evidence to back up these wild claims?
Orks have yet to win, because its been out for a week. We will see what happens at LVO.
I don't agree with grandiose statements, but this codex WILL change up lists.
2018/11/15 16:58:56
Subject: Re:So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
Grumblewartz wrote: Orks are most certainly not a "deepstrike or die" army, unless you completely lack imagination imo. They are a combined-arms army, amazingly. A mix of tools to handle different opponents well. I prefer jumping/teleporting a mix of combat and shooting units to handle different threats and most importantly, control the board and objectives. Grots are cheap enough to screen a dedicated long-range support force - traktor kannons and lootas are perhaps the best for this. There is no auto-win or even mostly-win list in the new codex, which I prefer, but it is probable that they will mix up the local meta due to their flexibility and unpredictability.
This is what I was thinking also.
We are the army that marines have always wanted to be.
DaJump + Deep Strikers = drop pods
Cheapest screens in the game (marines would kill for this)
Lots of D6 Damage long range shooting
Chapter rules
Buffing psykers
Trukks = Rhinos but open topped
Smash Captains
Terminators that matter
Assault
And mostly the flexibility to do what it takes to get the job done.
Well most orc have BS +5, so i`m not sure how much effective their shooting will be. Gretchin are the some ppm like brimstone horrors and are only T2, the strat that sacrifice them for other infantry unit look interesting.
Still look like orc will depend on close combat to kill enemy units, they have some interesting ways to increase unit number of attacks and with the strat can fight second time.
Extra stickibombs strat also seem interesting if you have large unit trolling bombs on the enemy.
I guess players have to be creative when they design lists.
With DDD we are BS 4-2/3+, so a little better than we were. Tankbustas with DDD5 are better than 2+ on vehicles. With stratagems, the ork shoot becomes downright scary.
2018/11/15 17:22:57
Subject: So what's your thoughts on the new Ork Codex ?
CthuluIsSpy wrote:Yes, they are 31 points each in total.
That's roughly half the cost of a KMK Mek Gun (60 points). Two of them are 62 points and are slightly more efficient against the targets you want the KMK to go against.
If they were 36 points then it wouldn't be as cost effective, as you'd be paying 72 points for a marginal increase in damage.
Its an internal balance thing, not external balance.
The issue is that they are both designed to do the same thing, so one of them is going to end up more efficient in the "general" sense. Even if KMK were just S9 so that they were better at hunting the really heavy targets or one of them did less damage but did mortal wounds to bypass invuls (and be more effective against infantry) there might be a reason to think about including one over the other, but when it's basically a heavy gun vs. a heavy gun that shoots twice as much but costs more than twice as much, you end up where we are now. Traktors are a great example, as they are obviously different and have a specific, but not uncommon, niche where they excel. Bubblechukaks are an example of this diversification being done, but poorly (what are they supposed to be good for?).
Orks have yet to win anything of note but so many of you are convinced that the codex is the best of this edition
Meanwhile IG, Knights, a type of Marine and various Aeldari have been dominating the meta for months and people have defended each and every one of those factions.
Don't ever change dakka.
Perhaps wait until you have some evidence to back up these wild claims?
Orks have yet to win, because its been out for a week. We will see what happens at LVO.
I don't agree with grandiose statements, but this codex WILL change up lists.
It's also the first codex release since Knights came out. Of course it's going going to make a splash, as nothing has changed between the two releases.
I'd be shocked if it does more than shuffle some of the ancillary bits of the power lists around once things settle down. I'm not seeing the fall of the IG+Knight+Flavor setup, for example, but it might make them screen more with the bodies they were bringing anyway or invest in a few cheap DS blockers for Da Jump and T2 'porting.
- 8k /// 
- 5k /// 
- 5k /// 
- 6k /// 
- 6k /// 
- 4k /// 
- 4k /// Cust - 3k 
Deffskullz desert scavengers
Thousand Sons 
. Plus - orks weren't actually bad. They outperformed many codex.
~1660
