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Made in us
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Iowa

Which factions don’t have access to Psykers, and don’t have the ability to deny enemy Psykers? How do players of those armies deal with this?

If the truth can destroy it, then it deserves to be destroyed. 
   
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Calm Celestian




Everyone apart from maybe Necrons have access to denial. Though pure Sisters of Battle and Custodes are limited to Stragems. (I don't know what Necrons have, someone who plays them will have to answer. I'll assume they have a Stratagem too...)

   
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on the forum. Obviously

Tau don't have access to either psykers or denial.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lammia wrote:
Everyone apart from maybe Necrons have access to denial. Though pure Sisters of Battle and Custodes are limited to Stragems. (I don't know what Necrons have, someone who plays them will have to answer. I'll assume they have a Stratagem too...)


They do, but its not great.
One is a warlord trait, the other is an overpriced bug that can be focused down easily.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/15 15:45:27


What I have
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~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Tau are the only army that doesn't have anything at all, I think (they may have a random anti-psyker tech somewhere that I'm not aware of).

Necrons have pretty bad psyker defence, with a pretty decent Warlord trait and the woefully bad Tomb Spyder their only options.

Dark Eldar have no native psykers but can ally in some of the best in the game via Craftworlds or Harelquins.

The lack of psychic defence can be a pretty tough hurdle to overcome for some armies. Personally, I think the whole psychic phase needs completely overhauled as it's just maddening watching your opponent dump a whole bunch of Mortal Wounds on your army with nothing you can do about it and alos kind of dull being the one dishing it out. Mortal Wounds is a pretty lazy mechanic in general, made worse by it being tied mainly to the psychic phase. The imbalance in the psychic phase can lead to some pretty one-sided games and, unfortuantely, GW declinded to do enough to provide sufficient diminishing returns for multiple psykers.
   
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Slipspace wrote:

Dark Eldar have no native psykers but can ally in some of the best in the game via Craftworlds or Harelquins.


They also have an absolutely hysterical relic that allows them to deny, and if it goes off automatically applies a Perils.
   
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Black Templar are not able to field them. Crux assassins are your friend.

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on the forum. Obviously

Sterling191 wrote:
Slipspace wrote:

Dark Eldar have no native psykers but can ally in some of the best in the game via Craftworlds or Harelquins.


They also have an absolutely hysterical relic that allows them to deny, and if it goes off automatically applies a Perils.


How many times can they use it? Because if its more than once, I'll be really annoyed.
I mean, Necrons are supposed to be experts at fighting psychics, and it seems that everyone except Tau are better at it.

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Slipspace wrote:
Tau are the only army that doesn't have anything at all, I think (they may have a random anti-psyker tech somewhere that I'm not aware of).

Necrons have pretty bad psyker defence, with a pretty decent Warlord trait and the woefully bad Tomb Spyder their only options.

Dark Eldar have no native psykers but can ally in some of the best in the game via Craftworlds or Harelquins.

The lack of psychic defence can be a pretty tough hurdle to overcome for some armies. Personally, I think the whole psychic phase needs completely overhauled as it's just maddening watching your opponent dump a whole bunch of Mortal Wounds on your army with nothing you can do about it and alos kind of dull being the one dishing it out. Mortal Wounds is a pretty lazy mechanic in general, made worse by it being tied mainly to the psychic phase. The imbalance in the psychic phase can lead to some pretty one-sided games and, unfortuantely, GW declinded to do enough to provide sufficient diminishing returns for multiple psykers.


Smite and mortal wounds in general are a troublesome mechanic. I get why GW put them in due to the general increase in wounds but I'd prefer that they weren't a thing.
   
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Iowa

I’m planning a full Militarum Tempestus army, so, in the scenario that I face a heavy psychic army, would it be worth it to use the Faithful Servant of the Throne Warlord trait, or should I stick to Master of Command for more orders?

If the truth can destroy it, then it deserves to be destroyed. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


How many times can they use it? Because if its more than once, I'll be really annoyed.


Once per turn. It's situational as all hell and no substitute for Craftworld or Harlie psyker support, but when it works it's a barrel of laughs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Apple Peel wrote:
I’m planning a full Militarum Tempestus army, so, in the scenario that I face a heavy psychic army, would it be worth it to use the Faithful Servant of the Throne Warlord trait, or should I stick to Master of Command for more orders?


Just budget 250 points for a supreme command of three Primaris Psykers and a paddywagon to haul em in.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/15 16:13:46


 
   
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on the forum. Obviously

Sterling191 wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


How many times can they use it? Because if its more than once, I'll be really annoyed.


Once per turn. It's situational as all hell and no substitute for Craftworld or Harlie psyker support, but when it works it's a barrel of laughs.


So they can use it multiple times throughout the game? Because that's still better than anything Necrons can bring.
Necrons get deny on a warlord trait and the gloom prism, which can only be taken by a spyder. Which is not a character, and as such can be shot at will.
Both only provide one deny each turn. No other effect.

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


So they can use it multiple times throughout the game?


Yes. It effectively imparts a "Known 0, Cast 0, Deny 1" statline to whomever carries it.
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





HoundsofDemos wrote:
Slipspace wrote:
Tau are the only army that doesn't have anything at all, I think (they may have a random anti-psyker tech somewhere that I'm not aware of).

Necrons have pretty bad psyker defence, with a pretty decent Warlord trait and the woefully bad Tomb Spyder their only options.

Dark Eldar have no native psykers but can ally in some of the best in the game via Craftworlds or Harelquins.

The lack of psychic defence can be a pretty tough hurdle to overcome for some armies. Personally, I think the whole psychic phase needs completely overhauled as it's just maddening watching your opponent dump a whole bunch of Mortal Wounds on your army with nothing you can do about it and alos kind of dull being the one dishing it out. Mortal Wounds is a pretty lazy mechanic in general, made worse by it being tied mainly to the psychic phase. The imbalance in the psychic phase can lead to some pretty one-sided games and, unfortuantely, GW declinded to do enough to provide sufficient diminishing returns for multiple psykers.


Smite and mortal wounds in general are a troublesome mechanic. I get why GW put them in due to the general increase in wounds but I'd prefer that they weren't a thing.


I'd say it's more to allow counterplay against invulnerable saves/negative to hit modifiers.

Really, Tau and Necrons should have more access to mortal wounds to make up for their lack of psychics abilities.
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

As stated, Tau and Necrons are about it. Their Psychic defense is so little to non-existent that any bits of wargear or stratagems they might have don't really count.

Dark Eldar and Black Templars don't have much in the way of Psychic defense either, but have they pick of some allies that do.

-

   
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 Stux wrote:
HoundsofDemos wrote:
Slipspace wrote:
Tau are the only army that doesn't have anything at all, I think (they may have a random anti-psyker tech somewhere that I'm not aware of).

Necrons have pretty bad psyker defence, with a pretty decent Warlord trait and the woefully bad Tomb Spyder their only options.

Dark Eldar have no native psykers but can ally in some of the best in the game via Craftworlds or Harelquins.

The lack of psychic defence can be a pretty tough hurdle to overcome for some armies. Personally, I think the whole psychic phase needs completely overhauled as it's just maddening watching your opponent dump a whole bunch of Mortal Wounds on your army with nothing you can do about it and alos kind of dull being the one dishing it out. Mortal Wounds is a pretty lazy mechanic in general, made worse by it being tied mainly to the psychic phase. The imbalance in the psychic phase can lead to some pretty one-sided games and, unfortuantely, GW declinded to do enough to provide sufficient diminishing returns for multiple psykers.


Smite and mortal wounds in general are a troublesome mechanic. I get why GW put them in due to the general increase in wounds but I'd prefer that they weren't a thing.


I'd say it's more to allow counterplay against invulnerable saves/negative to hit modifiers.

Really, Tau and Necrons should have more access to mortal wounds to make up for their lack of psychics abilities.


Necrons already plenty of MW generating abilities though.
C'tan powers are better and more reliable than psychic powers.
There's deathmarks and transdimensional beamers too, but they are over priced.

Its just that a race that's reputed to have experience fighting psychic is bad at fighting psychics, and that's not good.

What I have
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~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
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 Apple Peel wrote:
Which factions don’t have access to Psykers, and don’t have the ability to deny enemy Psykers? How do players of those armies deal with this?


Imperial Knights have no psykers or denial. Usual solution is to bring an ally, drop a Shieldbreaker Missile on the pskyer's head, or tough it out until you can stomp.
   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





 Apple Peel wrote:
Which factions don’t have access to Psykers, and don’t have the ability to deny enemy Psykers? How do players of those armies deal with this?
Take models from a different army, shoot the psykers, and/or get stomped on depending on the psychic opposition in question (see the old invisible deathstars).

Protection against mortal wounds (or resurrection/bodyguard abilities) can also help against psychic powers with factions like death guard being naturally more resistant to attack.

A few factions you would expect to have it are lacking - Crons used to have pariahs, sisters and templars have next to nothing, talons of the emperor are fragmented for now.

   
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator




Tau have no stratagems or rules that interact with psykers whatsoever. It’s not that what they have doesn’t count, they don’t actually have anything to begin with.
   
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Fresh-Faced New User




Pure Ad Mech doesn't have psykers or denial either.
   
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United Kingdom

chopstyx wrote:
Pure Ad Mech doesn't have psykers or denial either.
They've got the 'STEEL MIND, IRON LOGIC' Graia Stratagem.

Knights perhaps? Does the "ANGEL’S GRACE" Relic count?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/15 20:47:44


 
   
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Denison, Iowa

Custodes are pretty limited (as a stand alone force), being limited to a Warlord trait (which is actually decent as it also is basically a psychic hood) and a stratagem.

   
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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
How many times can they use it? Because if its more than once, I'll be really annoyed.
I mean, Necrons are supposed to be experts at fighting psychics, and it seems that everyone except Tau are better at it.
This was retconned.

They are no longer mindless robo skeletons bent on destroying the galaxy of all living beings.
   
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No Psykers:
Sisters of Battle
Necrons
Tau
Adeptus Mechanicus
Dark Eldar
Custodes
Knights


I think the only faction that has outright zero psychic defense is the Tau, but most of those also have no effective psychic defense.


In addition, some of those can ally in psykers to remedy their deficiencies, bringing it down to pretty much just Tau and Necrons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/15 21:47:27


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 skchsan wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
How many times can they use it? Because if its more than once, I'll be really annoyed.
I mean, Necrons are supposed to be experts at fighting psychics, and it seems that everyone except Tau are better at it.
This was retconned.

They are no longer mindless robo skeletons bent on destroying the galaxy of all living beings.


Last time I checked, they still beat the Old Ones. They only lost to the Eldar because they stupidly weakened themselves fighting the C'tan before killing every single space elf.
What you said has absolutely nothing to do with their ability to fight psykers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/15 23:20:36


What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
How many times can they use it? Because if its more than once, I'll be really annoyed.
I mean, Necrons are supposed to be experts at fighting psychics, and it seems that everyone except Tau are better at it.
This was retconned.

They are no longer mindless robo skeletons bent on destroying the galaxy of all living beings.


Last time I checked, they still beat the Old Ones. They only lost to the Eldar because they stupidly weakened themselves fighting the C'tan before killing every single space elf.
What you said has absolutely nothing to do with their ability to fight psykers.


In the fluff they tend to be weak against psykers and Daemons - same as the Tau, especially when not at home.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

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 Mr Morden wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
How many times can they use it? Because if its more than once, I'll be really annoyed.
I mean, Necrons are supposed to be experts at fighting psychics, and it seems that everyone except Tau are better at it.
This was retconned.

They are no longer mindless robo skeletons bent on destroying the galaxy of all living beings.


Last time I checked, they still beat the Old Ones. They only lost to the Eldar because they stupidly weakened themselves fighting the C'tan before killing every single space elf.
What you said has absolutely nothing to do with their ability to fight psykers.


In the fluff they tend to be weak against psykers and Daemons - same as the Tau, especially when not at home.


Didn't it say in the 5th ed codex that they developed a series of psychic defenses to protect their worlds from Daemons?
Also, it makes no sense that they could beat a race of powerful psychics without developing some sort of psionic defense. There's also that thing about the blackstone.

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
How many times can they use it? Because if its more than once, I'll be really annoyed.
I mean, Necrons are supposed to be experts at fighting psychics, and it seems that everyone except Tau are better at it.
This was retconned.

They are no longer mindless robo skeletons bent on destroying the galaxy of all living beings.


Last time I checked, they still beat the Old Ones. They only lost to the Eldar because they stupidly weakened themselves fighting the C'tan before killing every single space elf.
What you said has absolutely nothing to do with their ability to fight psykers.


In the fluff they tend to be weak against psykers and Daemons - same as the Tau, especially when not at home.


Didn't it say in the 5th ed codex that they developed a series of psychic defenses to protect their worlds from Daemons?
Also, it makes no sense that they could beat a race of powerful psychics without developing some sort of psionic defense. There's also that thing about the blackstone.


The last codex I read had Daemons preying on them even when they used hyperspace folds and corrupting entire Tomb Worlds. They have defences but the warp and its minons are fairly insideous...

Psykers def seem to be very effective fighting them?

I thought the Old Ones manly lost due to the Enslaver Plague they unleashed?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/15 23:36:46


I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in fr
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on the forum. Obviously

 Mr Morden wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
How many times can they use it? Because if its more than once, I'll be really annoyed.
I mean, Necrons are supposed to be experts at fighting psychics, and it seems that everyone except Tau are better at it.
This was retconned.

They are no longer mindless robo skeletons bent on destroying the galaxy of all living beings.


Last time I checked, they still beat the Old Ones. They only lost to the Eldar because they stupidly weakened themselves fighting the C'tan before killing every single space elf.
What you said has absolutely nothing to do with their ability to fight psykers.


In the fluff they tend to be weak against psykers and Daemons - same as the Tau, especially when not at home.


Didn't it say in the 5th ed codex that they developed a series of psychic defenses to protect their worlds from Daemons?
Also, it makes no sense that they could beat a race of powerful psychics without developing some sort of psionic defense. There's also that thing about the blackstone.


The last codex I read had Daemons preying on them even when they used hyperspace folds and corrupting entire Tomb Worlds. They have defences but the warp and its minons are fairly insideous...

Psykers def seem to be very effective fighting them?

I thought the Old Ones manly lost due to the Enslaver Plague they unleashed?


Wasn't that in the old fluff? I don't think the Enslaver Plague happened after the retcon.
If their psychic bs can't hurt you, then you can actually fight them. Its like stacking magic resist in a video game to fight a mob that deals heavy magic damage. If you can reduce that damage enough, you can survive long enough to punch that mage in the face.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/15 23:41:13


What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
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The Necrons having little to no psychic defense is kinda at odds with all the recent pylon fluff. They have tech that was able to shrink the eye of terror but can't muster a smaller version to stop a random imperial pysker or demon.
   
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Denison, Iowa

If the models were to fit the fluff a bit better I would make the Spiders a bit better in the anti-psycher department. At least then they'd be worth their points and perhaps get used.
   
 
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