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w1zard wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:
I don't like the primaris or cawl stuff or the return of loyalist primarchs. Or tbh any of the new lore released over the past two years. Aside from Necromunda, but that has remained old school and kept mostly intact by the developers involved.

Why may I ask?

excellent balance to the grimderp.

I totally agree. Still not a fan of the primaris marines though.

Eh, if the space marine loses both of his legs hes going to bleed out before the blood can clot unless the stumps get cauterized. Larraman cells increase clotting speed to many times what a normal human's is, but it's not MAGIC like a can of flexseal or something.

Well, actually:

"The Space Marine was still unconscious, and though his truncated legs were healing gradually, it was a poor heal without the attentions of a medicae. Thick red clots attracted hungry insects in the heat, as much from the ferocity of his immune system as from the blazing Miral sun overhead. There would be no possibility of infection by this stage, but equally the stumps were knitting themselves closed."

Quote from Slaughter at Giant’s Coffin.

Andykp wrote:
their ribs are fused into a solid shell, which would also render them unable to breath.

This isn't true. It would be entirely possible to breathe even with the ribs completely immobilized, as long as your diaphragm was sufficiently powerful.

Watching an Astartes breathing without his armour on would be weird and unsettling. His chest wouldn't move except for a slight rise and fall of his shoulders, but his belly would pump in and out like a bellows.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
SM's are worth 7 guardsmen. I'm seriously not even going to continue arguing with you and FYI guard have their own fleet.

Just because they are minor elements doesn't mean guard are on their level, actually never mind, there is no point.

You're going to have to cite your source on the bolded segment.

Part of the reforms of the military following the Horus Heresy was the splitting of the Imperial Navy from the Imperial Guard, precisely so they wouldn't have their own fleet elements.

The Navy maintain the transport vessels, though there are also references to Rogue Traders being contracted to ship IG regiments around (see the second Cain novel for an example).

Is the company apothecary alone in his duties, or does he have servitor or thrall assistants that can also be dispatched to recover progenoid glands?

Perhaps these individuals could be dispatched with smaller attachments of marines?

Or maybe the progenoid are surgically harvested before a lone squad is dispatched on tour?

Or are terminally injured marines expected to sus-an for medevac by allies?

I know marines are like zombies; easy to temporarily dispatch but you basically have to destroy the head to be sure (ie you can disable them on the battlefield but if they aren't dead within seconds they will either stabilise or go into suspended animation).

And what of Imperial Fists? Do they have a more extensive apothecarion as they can't rely on a marine who has been blown to pieces to suspended animation coma mode? Or do they just have to let the worst injured die?

Andersp90 wrote:

Well, actually:

"The Space Marine was still unconscious, and though his truncated legs were healing gradually, it was a poor heal without the attentions of a medicae. Thick red clots attracted hungry insects in the heat, as much from the ferocity of his immune system as from the blazing Miral sun overhead. There would be no possibility of infection by this stage, but equally the stumps were knitting themselves closed."

Quote from Slaughter at Giant’s Coffin.

Fair enough. Still think that is a little bit out there though. I also still think that marines not knowing basic battlefield first aid is a ridiculous idea. Considering that even guardsmen know that stuff.

 Duskweaver wrote:

Andykp wrote:
their ribs are fused into a solid shell, which would also render them unable to breath.

This isn't true. It would be entirely possible to breathe even with the ribs completely immobilized, as long as your diaphragm was sufficiently powerful.

Watching an Astartes breathing without his armour on would be weird and unsettling. His chest wouldn't move except for a slight rise and fall of his shoulders, but his belly would pump in and out like a bellows.

Nevertheless, it would impeed their breathing compared to an normal rib cage. The biggest problem though would come from heat dispertion like in turtles. A hard shell causes them to be particularly vulnerable to heat stroke and a Space Marine generates an enormous quantity of heat thanks to heavy muscles and very active liver. While the power armor could indeed cool them off, the rib cage would prevent it from cooling their very important internal organs and lead them to heart failures. Plus, it would make them very stiff and incapable of taking cover properly or even fencing or fighting in close combat with skills. Close combat fighters aren't bodybuilders. They need to be strong, but light and supple.

w1zard wrote:

Andersp90 wrote:

Well, actually:

"The Space Marine was still unconscious, and though his truncated legs were healing gradually, it was a poor heal without the attentions of a medicae. Thick red clots attracted hungry insects in the heat, as much from the ferocity of his immune system as from the blazing Miral sun overhead. There would be no possibility of infection by this stage, but equally the stumps were knitting themselves closed."

Quote from Slaughter at Giant’s Coffin.

Fair enough. Still think that is a little bit out there though. I also still think that marines not knowing basic battlefield first aid is a ridiculous idea. Considering that even guardsmen know that stuff.

Space marines have survived far worse in the lore. This case is nothing special.

nareik wrote:
Is the company apothecary alone in his duties, or does he have servitor or thrall assistants that can also be dispatched to recover progenoid glands?

Perhaps these individuals could be dispatched with smaller attachments of marines?

Or maybe the progenoid are surgically harvested before a lone squad is dispatched on tour?

Or are terminally injured marines expected to sus-an for medevac by allies?

I know marines are like zombies; easy to temporarily dispatch but you basically have to destroy the head to be sure (ie you can disable them on the battlefield but if they aren't dead within seconds they will either stabilise or go into suspended animation).

And what of Imperial Fists? Do they have a more extensive apothecarion as they can't rely on a marine who has been blown to pieces to suspended animation coma mode? Or do they just have to let the worst injured die?

The apo has medical serf, yes. But they do not follow the apo onto the field of battle. I have no idea if it's any different with the new primaris marines.

The gene-seeds are harvested when they are ready, or when the marine dies.

They are often airlifted off the field if possible, yes.

Not sure i understand your Imperial fists question.

epronovost wrote:

 Duskweaver wrote:

Andykp wrote:
their ribs are fused into a solid shell, which would also render them unable to breath.

This isn't true. It would be entirely possible to breathe even with the ribs completely immobilized, as long as your diaphragm was sufficiently powerful.

Watching an Astartes breathing without his armour on would be weird and unsettling. His chest wouldn't move except for a slight rise and fall of his shoulders, but his belly would pump in and out like a bellows.

Nevertheless, it would impeed their breathing compared to an normal rib cage. The biggest problem though would come from heat dispertion like in turtles. A hard shell causes them to be particularly vulnerable to heat stroke and a Space Marine generates an enormous quantity of heat thanks to heavy muscles and very active liver. While the power armor could indeed cool them off, the rib cage would prevent it from cooling their very important internal organs and lead them to heart failures. Plus, it would make them very stiff and incapable of taking cover properly or even fencing or fighting in close combat with skills. Close combat fighters aren't bodybuilders. They need to be strong, but light and supple.

The fused ribcage wouldent make any differende in regards to thermoregulation.

I don’t think you can say it wouldn’t make any difference to thermoregulation but it’s hard to how much. The whole fused ribs thing is very silly as it render them very inflexible and though able to breathe it would struggle to cope with exertion at all. Just ask some with broken ribs to take a deep breath. Ain’t happening. It in no way would be an improvement. It would be a disability with life limiting effects.

Andykp wrote:
I don’t think you can say it wouldn’t make any difference to thermoregulation but it’s hard to how much.

I can, simply becuase of the way humans thermoregulate. If you are in danger of overheating, your heartrate will increse, your subdermal venis dialate and your sweatglans will go to work. Turtles do not have those option.

The whole fused ribs thing is very silly as it render them very inflexible and though able to breathe it would struggle to cope with exertion at all.

Agree.

Just ask some with broken ribs to take a deep breath. Ain’t happening.

That would be do to pain - not inability.

Again, this argument doesn't seem to be leading anywhere. The apothecaries main job on the battlefield seems to be the collection of gene seed. I think the enhanced physiology is supposed to keep them alive long enough to sur vive the battle, then get properly patched up back at the apothecarion.
But then I've never read much about apothecaries, except fabius and talos valcoran.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Personally also I don't think your average SM would bother with battlefield first aid for the reasons above. Their brothers will either be stable, or dead/beyond help. I don't think there'd be much middle ground.

Andersp90 wrote:

"The Space Marine was still unconscious, and though his truncated legs were healing gradually, it was a poor heal without the attentions of a medicae. Thick red clots attracted hungry insects in the heat, as much from the ferocity of his immune system as from the blazing Miral sun overhead. There would be no possibility of infection by this stage, but equally the stumps were knitting themselves closed."

Quote from Slaughter at Giant’s Coffin.

And double yet, from Helsreach

The knight wasn’t dead. His face was awash in blood, the dark fluid filming over his eyes and darkening his features as it ran from his nose and clenched teeth. Astartes blood was supposed to clot within instants, so the tales told. It wasn’t happening here, and Andrej doubted that was a positive sign.

The Marine was swarmed with Orks and stabbed/slashed all over the place.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
The apothecaries main job on the battlefield seems to be the collection of gene seed. I think the enhanced physiology is supposed to keep them alive long enough to sur vive the battle, then get properly patched up back at the apothecarion.
But then I've never read much about apothecaries, except fabius and talos valcoran.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Personally also I don't think your average SM would bother with battlefield first aid for the reasons above. Their brothers will either be stable, or dead/beyond help. I don't think there'd be much middle ground.

I couldn't agree more.

 Bobthehero wrote:

Andersp90 wrote:

"The Space Marine was still unconscious, and though his truncated legs were healing gradually, it was a poor heal without the attentions of a medicae. Thick red clots attracted hungry insects in the heat, as much from the ferocity of his immune system as from the blazing Miral sun overhead. There would be no possibility of infection by this stage, but equally the stumps were knitting themselves closed."

Quote from Slaughter at Giant’s Coffin.

And double yet, from Helsreach

The knight wasn’t dead. His face was awash in blood, the dark fluid filming over his eyes and darkening his features as it ran from his nose and clenched teeth. Astartes blood was supposed to clot within instants, so the tales told. It wasn’t happening here, and Andrej doubted that was a positive sign.

The Marine was swarmed with Orks and stabbed/slashed all over the place.

Even metahuman physiology has its limits.

Though, the fluff is (also) pretty inconsistent on this.

In Deathstorm, a BA terminator got stabbed twice (two wounds) by a tyranid warrior - he died/bled out. While Uriel Ventris pretty much got "hollowed out" in warriors of ultramar - and survived.

That is prob the thing I hate the most about the 40k universe. The incredibly inconscient fluff.

Andersp90 wrote:
Space marines have survived far worse in the lore. This case is nothing special.

 Bobthehero wrote:
And double yet, from Helsreach

The knight wasn’t dead. His face was awash in blood, the dark fluid filming over his eyes and darkening his features as it ran from his nose and clenched teeth. Astartes blood was supposed to clot within instants, so the tales told. It wasn’t happening here, and Andrej doubted that was a positive sign.

The Marine was swarmed with Orks and stabbed/slashed all over the place.

Mandatory Phil Swift "I SAWED THIS MARINE IN HALF!" flexseal advert.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Personally also I don't think your average SM would bother with battlefield first aid for the reasons above. Their brothers will either be stable, or dead/beyond help. I don't think there'd be much middle ground.

Possibly, but there is a difference between "not using it much" and "not knowing how to do it".

w1zard wrote:

Andersp90 wrote:
Space marines have survived far worse in the lore. This case is nothing special.

 Bobthehero wrote:
And double yet, from Helsreach

The knight wasn’t dead. His face was awash in blood, the dark fluid filming over his eyes and darkening his features as it ran from his nose and clenched teeth. Astartes blood was supposed to clot within instants, so the tales told. It wasn’t happening here, and Andrej doubted that was a positive sign.

The Marine was swarmed with Orks and stabbed/slashed all over the place.

Mandatory Phil Swift "I SAWED THIS MARINE IN HALF!" flexseal advert.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Personally also I don't think your average SM would bother with battlefield first aid for the reasons above. Their brothers will either be stable, or dead/beyond help. I don't think there'd be much middle ground.

Possibly, but there is a difference between "not using it much" and "not knowing how to do it".

Mabye they learn it during their scout years. I dont think that would be too far-fetched.

Inability to take a deep breath with broken ribs and is also due to muscle spasms acting as a natural splint as well as painful inhibition actually stopping the muscles from responding.

The thermoregulating thing a huge question mark because of all the changes to the marine and it metabolism. Their power armour would pick up the job of excessive thermoregulation along with its other life support tasks.

I think the idea that a centuries old soldier who fights his entire life wouldn’t know a bit of first aid to be a ludicrous idea. They are expected to operate and survive unsupported for years at a time. Is it on the same level as an apothecary, no not at all. But they would have basic first aid and medical knowledge.

Andykp wrote:
Inability to take a deep breath with broken ribs and is also due to muscle spasms acting as a natural splint as well as painful inhibition actually stopping the muscles from responding.

That we can agree on.

The thermoregulating thing a huge question mark because of all the changes to the marine and it metabolism.

Unless the process of creating an astartes removes the subdermal veines and sweat glands, I dont see why they shouldn't be able to thermoregulate as normal.

Their power armour would pick up the job of excessive thermoregulation along with its other life support tasks.

Yes, this point has already been made.

I think the idea that a centuries old soldier who fights his entire life wouldn’t know a bit of first aid to be a ludicrous idea. They are expected to operate and survive unsupported for years at a time. Is it on the same level as an apothecary, no not at all. But they would have basic first aid and medical knowledge.

Yes, prob.

Andersp90 wrote:
Unless the process of creating an astartes removes the subdermal veines and sweat glands, I dont see why they shouldn't be able to thermoregulate as normal.

Human thermoregulation isn't perfect either. Under intense heat and physical activity (like a battle in any hot environement) soldiers suffering from hyperthermia and severe dehydration is a more common and debilitating issue than injuries caused by the enemy. A fused rib-cage makes thermoregulation significantly more difficult as it traps heat more easily add to that extra muscles and organs and an Astartes body is bound to generate more heat. With a bit of luck, maybe their body can function at a higher base temperature than a normal human, but since they still have a lot of "normal" human organs, it's probably fairly close. It doesn't make thermoregulation impossible, but it does make it more difficult. It's possible that Astartes have more sweat glands or can at least sweat more than humans before suffering from dehydration which would explain why they are described as being extraordinarly foul smelling.

All in all, this characteristic is nearly completely useless since an unarmored Space Marine can easily get killed even by lasguns as even relatively weak war weapons can bybass the defense afforded by their fused rib cage and that's not taking into account all the problems they can cause in terms of flexibility.

Andersp90 wrote:
That is prob the thing I hate the most about the 40k universe. The incredibly inconscient fluff.

For space marines, I head canon these instances as being a result of a sliding scale of how well a marine takes to their implants.

Many reject them, most 'succesful' applicants get some degree of function out of the implants. A rare few get almost perfect function (instead of improved clotting / healing, theirs works in seconds. Instead of a few inches taller they get an extra foot or two.

Basically, the difference between a 'standard' space marine, and those who are destined to become the likes of Abaddon or Calgar.

Andersp90 wrote:

w1zard wrote:

Andersp90 wrote:
Yep, a loving and caring astartes giving a stricken guardsman CPR. That is totally a thing.

They probably wouldn't waste their time with a guardsmen unless there was literally nothing else for them to do, but for a fellow astarte? You bet your ass they would.

I agree, but what are they supposed to do? They can't remove armor to get to the wound.

And like I have already stated, their bodies are built to take care of any injuries. Larraman cells will stop any bleeding save for at fatal wound.

Marines can take their armour off and on without any help, they just normally have servitors or senchals to do it.

epronovost wrote:

Andersp90 wrote:
Unless the process of creating an astartes removes the subdermal veines and sweat glands, I dont see why they shouldn't be able to thermoregulate as normal.

Human thermoregulation isn't perfect either. Under intense heat and physical activity (like a battle in any hot environement) soldiers suffering from hyperthermia and severe dehydration is a more common and debilitating issue than injuries caused by the enemy.

I never said it was. I just argued that comparing a warmblooded meta human with a coldblooded turtle makes little sense..

A fused rib-cage makes thermoregulation significantly more difficult as it traps heat more easily add to that extra muscles and organs and an Astartes body is bound to generate more heat.

A fused ribcage wouldn't make a difference. Because yes, the extra muscle mass wil create more heath - but are they located inside the chest cavity? No..

Aaannnd astartes are wearing armor with built-in air conditioning.

dehydration which would explain why they are described as being extraordinarly foul smelling.

That is utter BS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nareik wrote:

Andersp90 wrote:
That is prob the thing I hate the most about the 40k universe. The incredibly inconscient fluff.

For space marines, I head canon these instances as being a result of a sliding scale of how well a marine takes to their implants.

Many reject them, most 'succesful' applicants get some degree of function out of the implants. A rare few get almost perfect function (instead of improved clotting / healing, theirs works in seconds. Instead of a few inches taller they get an extra foot or two.

That is a good point.

Also:

"Most Chapters have existed for thousands of years. During that time, gene-seed belonging to some Chapters has mutated. This has resulted in changes in the exact nature of the artificially cultured organs. Such changes may sometimes make an implant useless. In other circumstances, changes in an organ might reduce its effectiveness or cause strange new effects. Whatever the result, it will affect the entire Chapter – all Space Marines belonging to a Chapter share implants cultured from the same original gene-seed.

As well as mutant implants, many Chapters have lost one or more types of gene-seed due to accident, genetic failure, or some other cause. Very few Chapters therefore possess all nineteen implants."

https://web.archive.org/web/20080410234930/http://uk.games-workshop.com:80/spacemarines/initiation/1/

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Andersp90 wrote:

w1zard wrote:

Andersp90 wrote:
Yep, a loving and caring astartes giving a stricken guardsman CPR. That is totally a thing.

They probably wouldn't waste their time with a guardsmen unless there was literally nothing else for them to do, but for a fellow astarte? You bet your ass they would.

I agree, but what are they supposed to do? They can't remove armor to get to the wound.

And like I have already stated, their bodies are built to take care of any injuries. Larraman cells will stop any bleeding save for at fatal wound.

Marines can take their armour off and on without any help, they just normally have servitors or senchals to do it.

We do not know if they can remove their armor themselves without the help of a techpriest or techmarine.

And they prob cant: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Narthecium

Andersp90 wrote:

That is utter BS.

That's the first thing one of the Remembrencer asks about Loken does he stinks like all the others to which the other one replies that no, he smelled mostly like oil, but later, in book two I believe. Loken comes to see a remembrencer after as session of sparing and he smells him from outside the room which was almost closed and an amoniac press was working inside. To be smelled like that by a normal human, one must smell more rancid than any human being possibly could. Eldars also describe Space Marines as being foul smelling, but they describe alll humans as foul smelling, but the words used to describe htem makes them feel even worse. All those hormones and combat stims certainly don't help body odor. Space Marines have been described as smelling very strongly and chemical. Space Marines themselves don't realise it because they are used to their own smell.

epronovost wrote:

Andersp90 wrote:

That is utter BS.

That's the first thing one of the Remembrencer asks about Loken does he stinks like all the others to which the other one replies that no, he smelled mostly like oil, but later, in book two I believe. Loken comes to see a remembrencer after as session of sparing and he smells him from outside the room which was almost closed and an amoniac press was working inside. To be smelled like that by a normal human, one must smell more rancid than any human being possibly could. Eldars also describe Space Marines as being foul smelling, but they describe alll humans as foul smelling, but the words used to describe htem makes them feel even worse. All those hormones and combat stims certainly don't help body odor. Space Marines have been described as smelling very strongly and chemical. Space Marines themselves don't realise it because they are used to their own smell.

Fair enough. I have never seen it mentioned myself.

Andersp90 wrote:

epronovost wrote:

Andersp90 wrote:
Unless the process of creating an astartes removes the subdermal veines and sweat glands, I dont see why they shouldn't be able to thermoregulate as normal.

Human thermoregulation isn't perfect either. Under intense heat and physical activity (like a battle in any hot environement) soldiers suffering from hyperthermia and severe dehydration is a more common and debilitating issue than injuries caused by the enemy.

I never said it was. I just argued that comparing a warmblooded meta human with a coldblooded turtle makes little sense..

A fused rib-cage makes thermoregulation significantly more difficult as it traps heat more easily add to that extra muscles and organs and an Astartes body is bound to generate more heat.

A fused ribcage wouldn't make a difference. Because yes, the extra muscle mass wil create more heath - but are they located inside the chest cavity? No..

Aaannnd astartes are wearing armor with built-in air conditioning.

dehydration which would explain why they are described as being extraordinarly foul smelling.

That is utter BS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nareik wrote:

Andersp90 wrote:
That is prob the thing I hate the most about the 40k universe. The incredibly inconscient fluff.

For space marines, I head canon these instances as being a result of a sliding scale of how well a marine takes to their implants.

Many reject them, most 'succesful' applicants get some degree of function out of the implants. A rare few get almost perfect function (instead of improved clotting / healing, theirs works in seconds. Instead of a few inches taller they get an extra foot or two.

That is a good point.

Also:

"Most Chapters have existed for thousands of years. During that time, gene-seed belonging to some Chapters has mutated. This has resulted in changes in the exact nature of the artificially cultured organs. Such changes may sometimes make an implant useless. In other circumstances, changes in an organ might reduce its effectiveness or cause strange new effects. Whatever the result, it will affect the entire Chapter – all Space Marines belonging to a Chapter share implants cultured from the same original gene-seed.

As well as mutant implants, many Chapters have lost one or more types of gene-seed due to accident, genetic failure, or some other cause. Very few Chapters therefore possess all nineteen implants."

https://web.archive.org/web/20080410234930/http://uk.games-workshop.com:80/spacemarines/initiation/1/

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Andersp90 wrote:

w1zard wrote:

Andersp90 wrote:
Yep, a loving and caring astartes giving a stricken guardsman CPR. That is totally a thing.

They probably wouldn't waste their time with a guardsmen unless there was literally nothing else for them to do, but for a fellow astarte? You bet your ass they would.

I agree, but what are they supposed to do? They can't remove armor to get to the wound.

And like I have already stated, their bodies are built to take care of any injuries. Larraman cells will stop any bleeding save for at fatal wound.

Marines can take their armour off and on without any help, they just normally have servitors or senchals to do it.

We do not know if they can remove their armor themselves without the help of a techpriest or techmarine.

And they prob cant: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Narthecium

We do know they can take their armour off by themselves, its in many novels. Vulken even took armour from Guillimans collection and put it on himself.

epronovost wrote:

 Duskweaver wrote:

Andykp wrote:
their ribs are fused into a solid shell, which would also render them unable to breath.

This isn't true. It would be entirely possible to breathe even with the ribs completely immobilized, as long as your diaphragm was sufficiently powerful.

Watching an Astartes breathing without his armour on would be weird and unsettling. His chest wouldn't move except for a slight rise and fall of his shoulders, but his belly would pump in and out like a bellows.

Nevertheless, it would impeed their breathing compared to an normal rib cage. The biggest problem though would come from heat dispertion like in turtles. A hard shell causes them to be particularly vulnerable to heat stroke and a Space Marine generates an enormous quantity of heat thanks to heavy muscles and very active liver. While the power armor could indeed cool them off, the rib cage would prevent it from cooling their very important internal organs and lead them to heart failures. Plus, it would make them very stiff and incapable of taking cover properly or even fencing or fighting in close combat with skills. Close combat fighters aren't bodybuilders. They need to be strong, but light and supple.

I'm sure they can simply have a different style of fighting focusing more on leveraging their weight and power. At 1000 pounds or whatever, in armor, all they have to do is sit down hard on a human and it's pretty much a won match.

 Insectum7 wrote:

epronovost wrote:

 Duskweaver wrote:

Andykp wrote:
their ribs are fused into a solid shell, which would also render them unable to breath.

This isn't true. It would be entirely possible to breathe even with the ribs completely immobilized, as long as your diaphragm was sufficiently powerful.

Watching an Astartes breathing without his armour on would be weird and unsettling. His chest wouldn't move except for a slight rise and fall of his shoulders, but his belly would pump in and out like a bellows.

Nevertheless, it would impeed their breathing compared to an normal rib cage. The biggest problem though would come from heat dispertion like in turtles. A hard shell causes them to be particularly vulnerable to heat stroke and a Space Marine generates an enormous quantity of heat thanks to heavy muscles and very active liver. While the power armor could indeed cool them off, the rib cage would prevent it from cooling their very important internal organs and lead them to heart failures. Plus, it would make them very stiff and incapable of taking cover properly or even fencing or fighting in close combat with skills. Close combat fighters aren't bodybuilders. They need to be strong, but light and supple.

I'm sure they can simply have a different style of fighting focusing more on leveraging their weight and power. At 1000 pounds or whatever, in armor, all they have to do is sit down hard on a human and it's pretty much a won match.

Marines in armour weigh 7 tonnes.

No?

Source. Big time.

 Insectum7 wrote:
No?

Source. Big time.

According to FF, so maybe not the best source, a Space Marine in armor is around 400 kilos, half of which is the armor itself.

 Insectum7 wrote:
No?

Source. Big time.

Pretty sure its Red path, my piece of gak e-reader search function is the worst thing I've ever used. Can't find a pdf on line, if you have the e-book search in the search function seven tonnes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Found it:

Its from vengeful spirit:

"Balanced precariously in a wedge-shaped gap in the wall, it sat on a rocky fulcrum like perfectly
balanced scales. Salicar adjudged it wedged tightly enough to support his weight. Without taking the time
to second guess himself, he vaulted from his narrow perch and landed on the block.
Right away, he knew he had been mistaken to believe it would support his mass. Though weighing
several tonnes, it immediately tipped from position and slid from the wall. Salicar sprang away from the
block and rammed his hands into a thin split in the rock above him. Skin tore and blood welled from his
hands as he clenched his fists to bear his weight."

That doesn't mean the marine weighs several tonnes. If you drop a small cars worth of weight even on a big rock weighing many tonnes, if its not balanced correctly it will move it.

I think you're confused there, that description means the rock weighs several tonnes

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
That doesn't mean the marine weighs several tonnes. If you drop a small cars worth of weight even on a big rock weighing many tonnes, if its not balanced correctly it will move it.

I think you're confused there, that description means the rock weighs several tonnes

that's what I get out of it,

even though the rock weighed several tonnes, his 400kg(or whatever it really is) was enough. their mass is relatively centralized and dense, the sheer kinetic transfer a marine can impart into something is insane, add in speed and you've destroyed that house(etc) just by running thru it. Marines clad in any sort of terminator suit could probably demolish most structures with enough motivation.