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the_scotsman wrote: to the former, I have not, because they explicitly nerfed the 2++ rerollable tzeentch prince out of the game.
Well you missed an... interesting challenge. The combination of something needing mortal wounds to kill while also being one of the most able factions to stop their most common source 0 psychic attacks.
I feel like it'd be similar to playing, say, all of seventh edition, when it felt like every game something on the table was invisible, 2++ rerollable, or otherwise immune to all in-game influence or damage.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
You need an absurd amount of dakka to kill a unit like that.
2x 10 man Tactical Squads with Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma, Rapid-firing w/ Chapter Master+Lt. buffs. At least Shield Captains come to you!
Actually one of the best ways to deal with them that I've found is to charge them with Rhinos (or whatever, anything that can survive a turn in combat) since they can't fall back and charge in the subsequent turn.
Do people actually play this game, or is this board just full of people theorycrafting all the time? A Shield Captain is fast, has Fly, is T6 W7 save 2+/3++ (potentially also 5+++) and pretty much guarantees 12 S4 his from shooting and 5 hits in close combat with great AP and D3 damage, which re-roll to wound. The big problem, as people are pointing out in this very thread, is that you can't shoot them the majority of the time because they're characters with superb mibility, and if there is a genuine threat to them on the board they can either avoid it, thanks to their character protection or, in most cases, kill it before it can do anything. So while some units are effecive at shooting him to death (the 2 SM units backed up by two characters above are still pretty much 50/50 to kill him, BTW, considering CP re-rolls) the SC can just charge into them himself and delete them before they can do anything to him. You can't shut him down by charging because he hides behind a bunch of dudes until he needs to charge something himself, at which point he's likely already done what he needs to do, so charging a Rhino at him after the fact doesn't really help. Also, while unlikely, he's got a chance of killing the Rhino even when it charges him.
I've killed three of them in a turn with marines shooting them after being charged by them. My Tyranids tend to just gobble them up with massed attacks and smite spam.
You noticed that they have 5 attacks. That kills half a 10 man Tac squad, leaving behind the weapons that do most of the damage. Is killing bolter marines "doing what he needs to do"? Fly units are still blocked on the charge, and those bikes have fat bases to begin with. Screens and sacrificial charges are a great way to defend against them.
Honestly I'd be happy if my opponents decided to hang their Shield Captains back behind screens, so I can kill their souped IG tanks first while not worrying about losing models to Shield Captains at the same time.
The point is, a SC is so mobile and tough he never needs to put himself in danger. There are so few actual threats to him they become a priority target for the rest of the army. There are plenty of ways to get them up the field and still screen them. If your opponent is somehow allowing you to wipe 3 after they've charged I'd suggest they don't have a clue what they're doing.
This is beginning to sound like the mythical blob of guard that can at once screen an entire army, yet still bring FRFSRF to bear fully on the optimal target. "SC can be screened and hidden, but they can always attack precisely what they need to since their opponent isn't screening or playing defensively."
If "There are so few actual threats", yet one of those threats can be Tactical Squads, I think you're projecting a bit of a boogeyman. Models with Plasma and rerolls abound in 8th edition.
Shield captains are tough, but they have few strong attacks. If you can force them to spend those attacks inefficiently you can get a foothold on the situation and blunt their effectiveness.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/21 17:01:35
Bharring wrote: It's amazing what a little charge here and there can do.
You should see what happens when a Rhino charges Spears.
You mean they fall back and act as normal for 2 cp? Plus you take some free damage on your rhino (possibly lose your rhino).
If you are worried about losing your Rhino to make them waste a turn or cp, then you dont know the purpose of a rhino.
Ahh yes - the drain their CP while my army gets obliterated strategy. Keep on dreaming.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
There will always be a counter to what any advice anyone gives you b.c you dont want a answer, you dont want help to counter it, you just want to be right and complain they are to strong.
You need an absurd amount of dakka to kill a unit like that.
2x 10 man Tactical Squads with Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma, Rapid-firing w/ Chapter Master+Lt. buffs. At least Shield Captains come to you!
Actually one of the best ways to deal with them that I've found is to charge them with Rhinos (or whatever, anything that can survive a turn in combat) since they can't fall back and charge in the subsequent turn.
Do people actually play this game, or is this board just full of people theorycrafting all the time? A Shield Captain is fast, has Fly, is T6 W7 save 2+/3++ (potentially also 5+++) and pretty much guarantees 12 S4 his from shooting and 5 hits in close combat with great AP and D3 damage, which re-roll to wound. The big problem, as people are pointing out in this very thread, is that you can't shoot them the majority of the time because they're characters with superb mibility, and if there is a genuine threat to them on the board they can either avoid it, thanks to their character protection or, in most cases, kill it before it can do anything. So while some units are effecive at shooting him to death (the 2 SM units backed up by two characters above are still pretty much 50/50 to kill him, BTW, considering CP re-rolls) the SC can just charge into them himself and delete them before they can do anything to him. You can't shut him down by charging because he hides behind a bunch of dudes until he needs to charge something himself, at which point he's likely already done what he needs to do, so charging a Rhino at him after the fact doesn't really help. Also, while unlikely, he's got a chance of killing the Rhino even when it charges him.
I've killed three of them in a turn with marines shooting them after being charged by them. My Tyranids tend to just gobble them up with massed attacks and smite spam.
You noticed that they have 5 attacks. That kills half a 10 man Tac squad, leaving behind the weapons that do most of the damage. Is killing bolter marines "doing what he needs to do"? Fly units are still blocked on the charge, and those bikes have fat bases to begin with. Screens and sacrificial charges are a great way to defend against them.
Honestly I'd be happy if my opponents decided to hang their Shield Captains back behind screens, so I can kill their souped IG tanks first while not worrying about losing models to Shield Captains at the same time.
The point is, a SC is so mobile and tough he never needs to put himself in danger. There are so few actual threats to him they become a priority target for the rest of the army. There are plenty of ways to get them up the field and still screen them. If your opponent is somehow allowing you to wipe 3 after they've charged I'd suggest they don't have a clue what they're doing.
This is beginning to sound like the mythical blob of guard that can at once screen an entire army, yet still bring FRFSRF to bear fully on the optimal target. "SC can be screened and hidden, but they can always attack precisely what they need to since their opponent isn't screening or playing defensively."
If "There are so few actual threats", yet one of those threats can be Tactical Squads, I think you're projecting a bit of a boogeyman. Models with Plasma and rerolls abound in 8th edition.
Shield captains are tough, but they have few strong attacks. If you can force them to spend those attacks inefficiently you can get a foothold on the situation and blunt their effectiveness.
You would require 18 Plasma shots rerolling everything to hit and 1's to wound to kill one Jetbike Captain with a 3++.
There will always be a counter to what any advice anyone gives you b.c you dont want a answer, you dont want help to counter it, you just want to be right and complain they are to strong.
Defending a Jetbike Captain is the same as defending Scatterbikes in 7th just because "you can kill them with counters". It's a gak argument and you should be ashamed of it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/21 17:23:32
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
There will always be a counter to what any advice anyone gives you b.c you dont want a answer, you dont want help to counter it, you just want to be right and complain they are to strong.
No, they want to complain about it until it gets nerfed in a future balancing action and then they can feel SO VINDICATED and like their losses up until this point DO NOT COUNT.
I think you're misunderstanding this crucial part of the current e-sports community culture. Balancing actions are necessary not to actually balance the game, but so the people who complain that the reason they lost was Imbalanced Thing can feel like those losses don't count when Imbalanced Thing is nerfed.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
There will always be a counter to what any advice anyone gives you b.c you dont want a answer, you dont want help to counter it, you just want to be right and complain they are to strong.
No, they want to complain about it until it gets nerfed in a future balancing action and then they can feel SO VINDICATED and like their losses up until this point DO NOT COUNT.
I think you're misunderstanding this crucial part of the current e-sports community culture. Balancing actions are necessary not to actually balance the game, but so the people who complain that the reason they lost was Imbalanced Thing can feel like those losses don't count when Imbalanced Thing is nerfed.
I'll take it one step further and say the balancing actions can be simply "churn" to keep the dialogue about a product going and retain users. In 40K it's a double boon because you get people who chase the meta with extra purchases.
You need an absurd amount of dakka to kill a unit like that.
2x 10 man Tactical Squads with Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma, Rapid-firing w/ Chapter Master+Lt. buffs. At least Shield Captains come to you!
Actually one of the best ways to deal with them that I've found is to charge them with Rhinos (or whatever, anything that can survive a turn in combat) since they can't fall back and charge in the subsequent turn.
Do people actually play this game, or is this board just full of people theorycrafting all the time? A Shield Captain is fast, has Fly, is T6 W7 save 2+/3++ (potentially also 5+++) and pretty much guarantees 12 S4 his from shooting and 5 hits in close combat with great AP and D3 damage, which re-roll to wound. The big problem, as people are pointing out in this very thread, is that you can't shoot them the majority of the time because they're characters with superb mibility, and if there is a genuine threat to them on the board they can either avoid it, thanks to their character protection or, in most cases, kill it before it can do anything. So while some units are effecive at shooting him to death (the 2 SM units backed up by two characters above are still pretty much 50/50 to kill him, BTW, considering CP re-rolls) the SC can just charge into them himself and delete them before they can do anything to him. You can't shut him down by charging because he hides behind a bunch of dudes until he needs to charge something himself, at which point he's likely already done what he needs to do, so charging a Rhino at him after the fact doesn't really help. Also, while unlikely, he's got a chance of killing the Rhino even when it charges him.
I've killed three of them in a turn with marines shooting them after being charged by them. My Tyranids tend to just gobble them up with massed attacks and smite spam.
You noticed that they have 5 attacks. That kills half a 10 man Tac squad, leaving behind the weapons that do most of the damage. Is killing bolter marines "doing what he needs to do"? Fly units are still blocked on the charge, and those bikes have fat bases to begin with. Screens and sacrificial charges are a great way to defend against them.
Honestly I'd be happy if my opponents decided to hang their Shield Captains back behind screens, so I can kill their souped IG tanks first while not worrying about losing models to Shield Captains at the same time.
The point is, a SC is so mobile and tough he never needs to put himself in danger. There are so few actual threats to him they become a priority target for the rest of the army. There are plenty of ways to get them up the field and still screen them. If your opponent is somehow allowing you to wipe 3 after they've charged I'd suggest they don't have a clue what they're doing.
This is beginning to sound like the mythical blob of guard that can at once screen an entire army, yet still bring FRFSRF to bear fully on the optimal target. "SC can be screened and hidden, but they can always attack precisely what they need to since their opponent isn't screening or playing defensively."
If "There are so few actual threats", yet one of those threats can be Tactical Squads, I think you're projecting a bit of a boogeyman. Models with Plasma and rerolls abound in 8th edition.
Shield captains are tough, but they have few strong attacks. If you can force them to spend those attacks inefficiently you can get a foothold on the situation and blunt their effectiveness.
You would require 18 Plasma shots rerolling everything to hit and 1's to wound to kill one Jetbike Captain with a 3++.
Yeah those Tactical Squads aren't a threat.
10 man Tactical:
Plasma Cannon, Combi-Plasma, Plasma Gun: (3 x 2 x .888 x .777 x .333 x 2) = 2.7
14 Bolter shots = (14 x .888 x .4(ish) x .17) = 0.84 is a total of 3.6 wounds per squad. 2 full squads give you 7.2 wounds, which is a kill. (tossing Krak Grenades bumps it slightly) Custodes bike will often be able to re-roll one save, so you have a bit of backup and redundancy since that's how you want to do thing anyways. Or a guy dies overcharging and fires again because of the Relic Banner
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/21 18:39:57
Primortus wrote: Neither of those things are possible. 2++ tzeentch saves were nerfed and nurgle has never been able to get 4+++, only 5+++ rerolling 1s.
Am I misreading the revoltingly resilient warlord trait?
You're not, my mistake. I've completely forgotten any DG warlord trait other than Arch-contaminator exists.
It's very nice actually. Except if you fail literally all of your FNP rolls like I once did
"You mean they fall back and act as normal for 2 cp? Plus you take some free damage on your rhino (possibly lose your rhino)."
It takes some rather absurd luck for a unit of Spears to oneround a Rhino when wounding on 6s.
There will always be a counter to what any advice anyone gives you b.c you dont want a answer, you dont want help to counter it, you just want to be right and complain they are to strong.
No, they want to complain about it until it gets nerfed in a future balancing action and then they can feel SO VINDICATED and like their losses up until this point DO NOT COUNT.
I think you're misunderstanding this crucial part of the current e-sports community culture. Balancing actions are necessary not to actually balance the game, but so the people who complain that the reason they lost was Imbalanced Thing can feel like those losses don't count when Imbalanced Thing is nerfed.
I'll take it one step further and say the balancing actions can be simply "churn" to keep the dialogue about a product going and retain users. In 40K it's a double boon because you get people who chase the meta with extra purchases.
You need an absurd amount of dakka to kill a unit like that.
2x 10 man Tactical Squads with Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma, Rapid-firing w/ Chapter Master+Lt. buffs. At least Shield Captains come to you!
Actually one of the best ways to deal with them that I've found is to charge them with Rhinos (or whatever, anything that can survive a turn in combat) since they can't fall back and charge in the subsequent turn.
Do people actually play this game, or is this board just full of people theorycrafting all the time? A Shield Captain is fast, has Fly, is T6 W7 save 2+/3++ (potentially also 5+++) and pretty much guarantees 12 S4 his from shooting and 5 hits in close combat with great AP and D3 damage, which re-roll to wound. The big problem, as people are pointing out in this very thread, is that you can't shoot them the majority of the time because they're characters with superb mibility, and if there is a genuine threat to them on the board they can either avoid it, thanks to their character protection or, in most cases, kill it before it can do anything. So while some units are effecive at shooting him to death (the 2 SM units backed up by two characters above are still pretty much 50/50 to kill him, BTW, considering CP re-rolls) the SC can just charge into them himself and delete them before they can do anything to him. You can't shut him down by charging because he hides behind a bunch of dudes until he needs to charge something himself, at which point he's likely already done what he needs to do, so charging a Rhino at him after the fact doesn't really help. Also, while unlikely, he's got a chance of killing the Rhino even when it charges him.
I've killed three of them in a turn with marines shooting them after being charged by them. My Tyranids tend to just gobble them up with massed attacks and smite spam.
You noticed that they have 5 attacks. That kills half a 10 man Tac squad, leaving behind the weapons that do most of the damage. Is killing bolter marines "doing what he needs to do"? Fly units are still blocked on the charge, and those bikes have fat bases to begin with. Screens and sacrificial charges are a great way to defend against them.
Honestly I'd be happy if my opponents decided to hang their Shield Captains back behind screens, so I can kill their souped IG tanks first while not worrying about losing models to Shield Captains at the same time.
The point is, a SC is so mobile and tough he never needs to put himself in danger. There are so few actual threats to him they become a priority target for the rest of the army. There are plenty of ways to get them up the field and still screen them. If your opponent is somehow allowing you to wipe 3 after they've charged I'd suggest they don't have a clue what they're doing.
This is beginning to sound like the mythical blob of guard that can at once screen an entire army, yet still bring FRFSRF to bear fully on the optimal target. "SC can be screened and hidden, but they can always attack precisely what they need to since their opponent isn't screening or playing defensively."
If "There are so few actual threats", yet one of those threats can be Tactical Squads, I think you're projecting a bit of a boogeyman. Models with Plasma and rerolls abound in 8th edition.
Shield captains are tough, but they have few strong attacks. If you can force them to spend those attacks inefficiently you can get a foothold on the situation and blunt their effectiveness.
You would require 18 Plasma shots rerolling everything to hit and 1's to wound to kill one Jetbike Captain with a 3++.
Yeah those Tactical Squads aren't a threat.
10 man Tactical:
Plasma Cannon, Combi-Plasma, Plasma Gun: (3 x 2 x .888 x .777 x .333 x 2) = 2.7
14 Bolter shots = (14 x .888 x .4(ish) x .17) = 0.84 is a total of 3.6 wounds per squad. 2 full squads give you 7.2 wounds, which is a kill. (tossing Krak Grenades bumps it slightly) Custodes bike will often be able to re-roll one save, so you have a bit of backup and redundancy since that's how you want to do thing anyways. Or a guy dies overcharging and fires again because of the Relic Banner
That assumes Rapid Fire range and characters, and no fallback and shoot via Ultramarines.
I also haven't a single clue how you got that math for the Plasma weapons. 5.3 land, 4.1 go through, and that's a total of 1.4, which is doubled to what you posted.
So you're clearly not grasping how bad of a method this is.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/21 21:25:14
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
"That assumes Rapid Fire range"
You typically get one round of RF range before charges.
" and characters,"
Agree on that point. Exposing him tends to be hard. That said, what's he screening with?
"and no fallback and shoot via Ultramarines."
UM is an *upside*. You unload first. He charges a unit. It falls back. You shoot again. Odds are he didn't take out the Plas guys in one round of CC.
"I also haven't a single clue how you got that math for the Plasma weapons. 5.3 land, 4.1 go through, and that's a total of 1.4, which is doubled to what you posted."
Overcharged gets 2.7 by my numbers, too.
There will always be a counter to what any advice anyone gives you b.c you dont want a answer, you dont want help to counter it, you just want to be right and complain they are to strong.
No, they want to complain about it until it gets nerfed in a future balancing action and then they can feel SO VINDICATED and like their losses up until this point DO NOT COUNT.
I think you're misunderstanding this crucial part of the current e-sports community culture. Balancing actions are necessary not to actually balance the game, but so the people who complain that the reason they lost was Imbalanced Thing can feel like those losses don't count when Imbalanced Thing is nerfed.
I'll take it one step further and say the balancing actions can be simply "churn" to keep the dialogue about a product going and retain users. In 40K it's a double boon because you get people who chase the meta with extra purchases.
You need an absurd amount of dakka to kill a unit like that.
2x 10 man Tactical Squads with Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma, Rapid-firing w/ Chapter Master+Lt. buffs. At least Shield Captains come to you!
Actually one of the best ways to deal with them that I've found is to charge them with Rhinos (or whatever, anything that can survive a turn in combat) since they can't fall back and charge in the subsequent turn.
Do people actually play this game, or is this board just full of people theorycrafting all the time? A Shield Captain is fast, has Fly, is T6 W7 save 2+/3++ (potentially also 5+++) and pretty much guarantees 12 S4 his from shooting and 5 hits in close combat with great AP and D3 damage, which re-roll to wound. The big problem, as people are pointing out in this very thread, is that you can't shoot them the majority of the time because they're characters with superb mibility, and if there is a genuine threat to them on the board they can either avoid it, thanks to their character protection or, in most cases, kill it before it can do anything. So while some units are effecive at shooting him to death (the 2 SM units backed up by two characters above are still pretty much 50/50 to kill him, BTW, considering CP re-rolls) the SC can just charge into them himself and delete them before they can do anything to him. You can't shut him down by charging because he hides behind a bunch of dudes until he needs to charge something himself, at which point he's likely already done what he needs to do, so charging a Rhino at him after the fact doesn't really help. Also, while unlikely, he's got a chance of killing the Rhino even when it charges him.
I've killed three of them in a turn with marines shooting them after being charged by them. My Tyranids tend to just gobble them up with massed attacks and smite spam.
You noticed that they have 5 attacks. That kills half a 10 man Tac squad, leaving behind the weapons that do most of the damage. Is killing bolter marines "doing what he needs to do"? Fly units are still blocked on the charge, and those bikes have fat bases to begin with. Screens and sacrificial charges are a great way to defend against them.
Honestly I'd be happy if my opponents decided to hang their Shield Captains back behind screens, so I can kill their souped IG tanks first while not worrying about losing models to Shield Captains at the same time.
The point is, a SC is so mobile and tough he never needs to put himself in danger. There are so few actual threats to him they become a priority target for the rest of the army. There are plenty of ways to get them up the field and still screen them. If your opponent is somehow allowing you to wipe 3 after they've charged I'd suggest they don't have a clue what they're doing.
This is beginning to sound like the mythical blob of guard that can at once screen an entire army, yet still bring FRFSRF to bear fully on the optimal target. "SC can be screened and hidden, but they can always attack precisely what they need to since their opponent isn't screening or playing defensively."
If "There are so few actual threats", yet one of those threats can be Tactical Squads, I think you're projecting a bit of a boogeyman. Models with Plasma and rerolls abound in 8th edition.
Shield captains are tough, but they have few strong attacks. If you can force them to spend those attacks inefficiently you can get a foothold on the situation and blunt their effectiveness.
You would require 18 Plasma shots rerolling everything to hit and 1's to wound to kill one Jetbike Captain with a 3++.
Yeah those Tactical Squads aren't a threat.
10 man Tactical:
Plasma Cannon, Combi-Plasma, Plasma Gun: (3 x 2 x .888 x .777 x .333 x 2) = 2.7
14 Bolter shots = (14 x .888 x .4(ish) x .17) = 0.84 is a total of 3.6 wounds per squad. 2 full squads give you 7.2 wounds, which is a kill. (tossing Krak Grenades bumps it slightly) Custodes bike will often be able to re-roll one save, so you have a bit of backup and redundancy since that's how you want to do thing anyways. Or a guy dies overcharging and fires again because of the Relic Banner
That assumes Rapid Fire range and characters, and no fallback and shoot via Ultramarines.
I also haven't a single clue how you got that math for the Plasma weapons. 5.3 land, 4.1 go through, and that's a total of 1.4, which is doubled to what you posted.
So you're clearly not grasping how bad of a method this is.
You can tell me it's a bad method all you like, but since I've used it multiple times to my benefit I'll ignore that advice.
3 Plasma weapons is 6 shots, times .888 for rerolls, x .777 for reroll 1s to wound, x .333 for 3++ save. x2 for 2 wounds = 2.75
Bharring wrote: Insectum:
Why not 4 units of PG, Combi, 3xBolter Doods? Or Combat Squadding?
I'd think you'd lose less when one is assaulted, although it takes less dakka to kill an individual PG.
Just wondering what you've thought of that?
You could easily do the Plasma, Combi-Plasma in a five-man and just multiply that a number of times, but I like the flexibility inherent in the 10 man allowing me to change deployments from game to game. For Assaults, it depends on what you're assaulted by, for one. Ten man squads give that extra "padding" before the first Special casualty, as you noted. They also Overwatch more and benefit more via Stratagems. They're also easier to manage buffs using auras, as you can string them out. The extra range on the heavy can be crucial for effective saturation on a desired target. They give up fewer kill points and can deploy with fewer drops, if it's an issue. And as above, I can always split them into multiple five-mans if I want.
Plus it's how I have the badges on their shoulder pads painted, and it "feels right".
Marines also have a ridiculous number of other options for Plasma-on-power-armored-guys if I want to focus them to a greater degree. It's practically stupid how many options there are.
5 Man Tacs
Sternguard
Command Squads
Assault Squads with Plasma Pistols
Vanguard with dual Plasma Pistols
Interceptors
Hellblasters of various flavors
Devastators
Three man Bike teams
anything I miss?
I've been starting to think about re-arming my Sternguard with combi-plas like I had in 6th ed, or doing up a Command Squad with Plasma/Storm Shields or whatever. But in truth I'll probably start out by finishing up the last two Tacticals so my company is done, then maybe I'll deploy them as concentrated 5-man teams. Dunno. We'll see if anything exciting comes of Chapter Approved.
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
