No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Sluggaloo**

Speaking of 2-3 supporting characters. How would a Supreme Command Detachment work in conjunction with special named characters which are tied to different clans?

Picture this supreme command detachment:

EvilSunz Zhardsnark - Ded fast and killy

BloodAxe Snikrot - Ded Sneaky and backstabby

Goff Zaggstrukk - Dropping out the sky next to Snikrot for two man OrkSpecOps

DeffSkull BigMekSAG - DreadWaagh for the extra souped up gun, deffskullz for the rerolls for days

1) Is this multi - kultur detachment possible?
2) If so, do each of the detachment's characters keep their clan kulturs? (Does the deffskull SAGmek keep rerolls, does Zhardsnark get +1 to charge, movements etc etc)

**Grimskul**

Sluggaloo wrote:
Speaking of 2-3 supporting characters. How would a Supreme Command Detachment work in conjunction with special named characters which are tied to different clans?

Picture this supreme command detachment:

EvilSunz Zhardsnark - Ded fast and killy

BloodAxe Snikrot - Ded Sneaky and backstabby

Goff Zaggstrukk - Dropping out the sky next to Snikrot for two man OrkSpecOps

DeffSkull BigMekSAG - DreadWaagh for the extra souped up gun, deffskullz for the rerolls for days

1) Is this multi - kultur detachment possible?
2) If so, do each of the detachment's characters keep their clan kulturs? (Does the deffskull SAGmek keep rerolls, does Zhardsnark get +1 to charge, movements etc etc)

Yes and no. Yes, you can have units from different kulturs in the same detachment. However, by the kultur rules in the codex, if you have more than one kultur in one detachment nobody benefits from their respective klan kulturs. The only exception are Flash Gitz, but they in turn lose their Freeboota Kultur abilities, they just don't make the other klan in the detachment lose theirs. So in your instance, Snikrot wouldn't get to fall back and charge/shoot again, Zhadsnark wouldn't get the movement buffs from Evil Sunz, Zaggy wouldn't get exploding 6's in CC and the Big Mek wouldn't have his rerolls or invuln.

**xlDuke**

You can do it but you would lose the benefits from their Kultures because not every unit in the detachment has the same Clan keyword. You could still use Clan specific stratagems on them though.

**tneva82**

Bit of cornercase. More common trick with space marine librarian tag team to get best spells with minimum tags but not applicable here. Not certain but feel not worth for orks

**Dr.Duck**

Not a fan of the Loota list atm, maybe it will grow on me later. Been looking more towards faster lists with Large moon bike squads to clear out screens.

**JimOnMars**

Dr.Duck wrote:
Not a fan of the Loota list atm, maybe it will grow on me later. Been looking more towards faster lists with Large moon bike squads to clear out screens.

Yea, I ran some lootas this weekend but I couldn't bring myself to do 25 of them, even though I had the models.

The 15 didn't do much, and were hardly worth grot shields.

Also...Dark reapers with Yvraine shooting them in the psychic phase kinda sucks. Are they worth 2 grot shields in one turn? I thought not and let them die.

**Dr.Duck**

JimOnMars wrote:
Dr.Duck wrote:
Not a fan of the Loota list atm, maybe it will grow on me later. Been looking more towards faster lists with Large moon bike squads to clear out screens.
Yea, I ran some lootas this weekend but I couldn't bring myself to do 25 of them, even though I had the models.

The 15 didn't do much, and were hardly worth grot shields.

Also...Dark reapers with Yvraine shooting them in the psychic phase kinda sucks. Are they worth 2 grot shields in one turn? I thought not and let them die.

You really cant justify building a list around them for CP and grots without taking 25 of them so ya I agree. My problem is they list pretty much builds itself with the requirement being 3x battalions for CP. Once you build those you have like 300ish points left. Just not feeling it.

On the other hand while bikes dont have nearly as powerful a gun they do put out a stupid number of shots for 250ish points and am liking them more and more. Access to -1 to hit is also pretty neat.
thinking like maybe 2x12 bikes. 3 ScrapJets 90 boys, Trike and biker boss and some other stuff.

**tneva82**

Number of shots is nice but dying when enemy says "boo" and not having any punch on those shots...

6 of them with big choppa nob took down 3 turns to clear down 5 basic primaris marines. They just don't have any punch.

Compare to lootas that even with 15 are blowing up vehicles each turn or wiping out entire squads of marines. -1 save and D2 are real big. Especially D2.

**Sluggaloo**

My problem with lootas is that they've got such a hard counter through vekt denying grotshields, something a backline of mekguns doesn't care about.

Bad thing with a backline of mek guns is it gives the enemy juicy targets for AT guns to blast away at, and also gives away loads of killpoints.

Mek guns in a completely mechanised list however... That might be something really solid in a 2k list.

**tneva82**

True. Luckily I don't play vs DE all the time. But yeah that's the thing that's going to keep loota star from tournament top fights steadily.

**Singleton Mosby**

Sluggaloo wrote:
Mek guns in a completely mechanised list however... That might be something really solid in a 2k list.

I like the threat these Mek gunz pose this edition. Have been feelding a couple over the last games and will build more to field bigger batteries of them. And best of all it is a good use of my arsenal of otherwise useless Looted Wagons.

Mainly playing Freebooterz and I've some issues filling the HQ slot. A Bikkerboss is nice for the points, but my list is more shooty then anything. Badrukk is already there because of rule of cool. What would you suggest?

**Blackie**

Singleton Mosby wrote:
Sluggaloo wrote:
Mek guns in a completely mechanised list however... That might be something really solid in a 2k list.

I like the threat these Mek gunz pose this edition. Have been feelding a couple over the last games and will build more to field bigger batteries of them. And best of all it is a good use of my arsenal of otherwise useless Looted Wagons.

Mainly playing Freebooterz and I've some issues filling the HQ slot. A Bikkerboss is nice for the points, but my list is more shooty then anything. Badrukk is already there because of rule of cool. What would you suggest?

Do you play a pure shooting list? Because the kultur bonus is quite powerful in combat as well, just trigger it with units that already hit on 2s and quite hard like the biker boss or the bonebreaka/battle wagon. I'd always take a biker boss, he's a good fighter even without lots of buffs, helps for morale and having a mobile character could be useful as well. I'd also take badrukk so a possible third HQ, if you want a brigade, would probably be a weirdboy or a big mek maybe. But the biker boss would be the first option.

**tneva82**

For hq as i can't use index 3 weirdboy and badruk will be 2 bat core. For 3rd sag mek and warboss on foot or trike is to go

**Singleton Mosby**

Blackie wrote:

Do you play a pure shooting list? Because the kultur bonus is quite powerful in combat as well, just trigger it with units that already hit on 2s and quite hard like the biker boss or the bonebreaka/battle wagon. I'd always take a biker boss, he's a good fighter even without lots of buffs, helps for morale and having a mobile character could be useful as well. I'd also take badrukk so a possible third HQ, if you want a brigade, would probably be a weirdboy or a big mek maybe. But the biker boss would be the first option.

Currently I play small lists in preparation of a 1000 points tourney in a couple of weeks so there's no place for asecond focus like CC. So yes, mostly shooting. What role would a weirdboy or big mek fill in such a list?

One more thing: I was thinking of making the entire Freebootaz list a Dread Waagh detachment. Not because I've any dreads in the list, but because I love the Souped up Shokka. And with a possible +1 on shooting that gun is ace. That's is possible, ain't it?

**tneva82**

Singleton Mosby wrote:
Blackie wrote:

Do you play a pure shooting list? Because the kultur bonus is quite powerful in combat as well, just trigger it with units that already hit on 2s and quite hard like the biker boss or the bonebreaka/battle wagon. I'd always take a biker boss, he's a good fighter even without lots of buffs, helps for morale and having a mobile character could be useful as well. I'd also take badrukk so a possible third HQ, if you want a brigade, would probably be a weirdboy or a big mek maybe. But the biker boss would be the first option.

Currently I play small lists in preparation of a 1000 points tourney in a couple of weeks so there's no place for asecond focus like CC. So yes, mostly shooting. What role would a weirdboy or big mek fill in such a list?

Good one. Da jump is awesome help repositioning stuff. Smite can also be used. If index allowed mek w/kff can also be good if you need more hq's to list to fill minimum's

**Singleton Mosby**

tneva82 wrote:
If index allowed mek w/kff can also be good if you need more hq's to list to fill minimum's

I can see the use of a Weirdboy. But prefere the souped-up SAG over a KFF.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Remember that the KFF only applies the invul to units wholly within its AoE. So you're probably only going to be able to reliably apply it to MSU and vehicles, as trying to use it to protect blobs of boyz is going to be tricky, unless you klump them all together.

This also makes the Mega Armored Mek even worse, as its so slow its going to be hard to keep things in its bubble.

**tneva82**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Remember that the KFF only applies the invul to units wholly within its AoE. So you're probably only going to be able to reliably apply it to MSU and vehicles, as trying to use it to protect blobs of boyz is going to be tricky, unless you klump them all together.

This also makes the Mega Armored Mek even worse, as its so slow its going to be hard to keep things in its bubble.

Though seems faq made definition of wholly within that all models in unit are within so sliver enough for furthest member. Anyway shooty army in 1k doesn't have much blobs(2x30 is half pts plus hq's so where's the gun's?) And small anyway so kff is enough

**SemperMortis**

JNAProductions wrote:
How the hell do you get 5 dead Marines from 10 wounds? Did Choppas hit AP-1 while I was gone?

lol my mistake, I was still thinking -1 from the big choppa

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gitdakka wrote:
Emicrania wrote:
I have a question about the lootas bomb. I am playing against it as I am painting my Ork army, so my and my friend found ourselves in a bit of a misunderstanding.
I dug out with my trygon+26 devourer t-gant and used the shoot again stratagem. That's 156 S4 4+ reroll one to hit shots. That gak hurts. If you are gonna play that you really need to make it impossible to shoot to bits for at least 3 turns
Anyway the problem arose when I declared to shoot the grots AND the lootas at the same time. Let's say I decided to shoot the grots first and I wipe them out . Than I proceed to shoot the lootas and he wanna use the grot shield stratagem; now there are no grots left, but i shoot both unit at the same time. He claimed that would result in the loss of the shielded Wounds on grots, I thought it was possible but not sure, so I resolved into shooting the lootas first instead and let him use the stratagem as he wanted.
Can anybody clear what it is the correct way to play grot Shields in a similar situation?

If you split fire then you (the shooter) choose the order in wich they are resolved. You resolve one target entirely before moving on to next. This would mean that if you resolve the grots first and then move on to the lootas, they might not have any grots left to use the strategem on.

Edit: Damn mellon beat me to it!

I would have split fire the grotz first because T2 vs T4 means you are wounding on 2s as opposed to 4s vs the lootas, so the Grot shield rule actually makes grotz tougher in that situation since you are significantly less likely to wound them compared to shooting them directly. Just something to think about.

**addnid**

Sluggaloo wrote:
tneva82 wrote:

Actually double choppa nob has only 1 attack more. BC has 3 S7 -1 D2 attacks AND 1 S5 attack from his choppa. You take 2 weapons. Big choppa+choppa is legal combo.

So we are looking at 9 S7 -1 D2 and 3 S5 attacks vs 20 S5 attacks.

Shout out to tneva for having the sharpest kunnin' analysis from our whole mob, you're dead sneaky and really look at things closely

As for the whole conversation regarding tping transports, I just reckon people need to count the tellyporta as a form of transport on it's own. If you've already paid the points for a transport, make use of it's increased mobility from turn one! I advocate saving the tp for units you're not planning on putting inside a transport. I've used that word all too much now. Transport.

I thought you had to choose which weapon you had and use it, and it alone. Unless you had twice the same. Does everyone her agree with tneva?

I plan on using nobz with big choppa Friday so I d like it a confirmation from this swell community

**Barney000**

I've not been able to have a game with the new codex yet but am really liking the idea off a full squad off deffkoptas with rokkits. Using the evil suns strat for 48" range on the bombs seems tempting and then the -1 strat to protect them from return fire. Has anyone had any experience using big squads?

**JNAProductions**

addnid wrote:
Sluggaloo wrote:
tneva82 wrote:

Actually double choppa nob has only 1 attack more. BC has 3 S7 -1 D2 attacks AND 1 S5 attack from his choppa. You take 2 weapons. Big choppa+choppa is legal combo.

So we are looking at 9 S7 -1 D2 and 3 S5 attacks vs 20 S5 attacks.

Shout out to tneva for having the sharpest kunnin' analysis from our whole mob, you're dead sneaky and really look at things closely

As for the whole conversation regarding tping transports, I just reckon people need to count the tellyporta as a form of transport on it's own. If you've already paid the points for a transport, make use of it's increased mobility from turn one! I advocate saving the tp for units you're not planning on putting inside a transport. I've used that word all too much now. Transport.

I thought you had to choose which weapon you had and use it, and it alone. Unless you had twice the same. Does everyone her agree with tneva?

I plan on using nobz with big choppa Friday so I d like it a confirmation from this swell community

You can mix and match freely between attacks.

In addition, most weapons like Choppas or Chainswords are worded such that you don't need to allocate ANY attacks to them to get an extra with them-they just give a bonus.

**addnid**

JNAProductions wrote:
addnid wrote:
Sluggaloo wrote:
tneva82 wrote:

Actually double choppa nob has only 1 attack more. BC has 3 S7 -1 D2 attacks AND 1 S5 attack from his choppa. You take 2 weapons. Big choppa+choppa is legal combo.

So we are looking at 9 S7 -1 D2 and 3 S5 attacks vs 20 S5 attacks.

Shout out to tneva for having the sharpest kunnin' analysis from our whole mob, you're dead sneaky and really look at things closely

As for the whole conversation regarding tping transports, I just reckon people need to count the tellyporta as a form of transport on it's own. If you've already paid the points for a transport, make use of it's increased mobility from turn one! I advocate saving the tp for units you're not planning on putting inside a transport. I've used that word all too much now. Transport.

I thought you had to choose which weapon you had and use it, and it alone. Unless you had twice the same. Does everyone her agree with tneva?

I plan on using nobz with big choppa Friday so I d like it a confirmation from this swell community

You can mix and match freely between attacks.

In addition, most weapons like Choppas or Chainswords are worded such that you don't need to allocate ANY attacks to them to get an extra with them-they just give a bonus.

So if I am following what you are saying nobz with big choppa and choppa get an extra attack without even being « used » ? So a nob could do 4 big choppa attacks thanks to this combination of weapons ? Or is it 3 big choppa attacks and one choppa attack ?

**JNAProductions**

The extra attack MUST be made with the Choppa.

So 3 Big Choppa swings, 1 Choppa.

**the_scotsman**

addnid wrote:
JNAProductions wrote:
addnid wrote:
Sluggaloo wrote:
tneva82 wrote:

Actually double choppa nob has only 1 attack more. BC has 3 S7 -1 D2 attacks AND 1 S5 attack from his choppa. You take 2 weapons. Big choppa+choppa is legal combo.

So we are looking at 9 S7 -1 D2 and 3 S5 attacks vs 20 S5 attacks.

Shout out to tneva for having the sharpest kunnin' analysis from our whole mob, you're dead sneaky and really look at things closely

As for the whole conversation regarding tping transports, I just reckon people need to count the tellyporta as a form of transport on it's own. If you've already paid the points for a transport, make use of it's increased mobility from turn one! I advocate saving the tp for units you're not planning on putting inside a transport. I've used that word all too much now. Transport.

I thought you had to choose which weapon you had and use it, and it alone. Unless you had twice the same. Does everyone her agree with tneva?

I plan on using nobz with big choppa Friday so I d like it a confirmation from this swell community

You can mix and match freely between attacks.

In addition, most weapons like Choppas or Chainswords are worded such that you don't need to allocate ANY attacks to them to get an extra with them-they just give a bonus.

So if I am following what you are saying nobz with big choppa and choppa get an extra attack without even being « used » ? So a nob could do 4 big choppa attacks thanks to this combination of weapons ? Or is it 3 big choppa attacks and one choppa attack ?

The choppa is worded

"gain 1 bonus attack with this weapon every time the user fights"

Or somesuch very close to that phrasing. So, you get all your regular 3 BC attacks, plus 1 bonus choppa attack.

Typically ive been running my nob squads as

Boss with Saw (I like the str bonus but also like keeping flat 2 damage) and kombi-rokkit
50% Big Choppa/Choppa
50% Choppa/Choppa
ammo runt

The chop-chops soak wounds up and the rokkit uses the ammo runt reroll every turn which gets it that 55% hit ( I consider any rokkit that can have 50% or 55% hit, so tankbustas or gretchin or always ammo runted, to be fairly costed and worth it)

**JimOnMars**

Barney000 wrote:
I've not been able to have a game with the new codex yet but am really liking the idea off a full squad off deffkoptas with rokkits. Using the evil suns strat for 48" range on the bombs seems tempting and then the -1 strat to protect them from return fire. Has anyone had any experience using big squads?

The bombs are gone from the codex, so if you are using index koptas you will need to pay the index price...and presumably they don't get kultures. Not likely any real value.

I have used some, and they can get some timely rokkit hits, finishing off vehicles that were wounded by tankbustas or mek guns, or blasting heavy infantry. They are pretty flexible with that range, stopping on objectives or getting behind things.

Mostly I've used them as distraction carnifexes, to be honest. 250 points for 5 is a bit high for the damage they can do.

**MannyMcCoconut**

Has anyone had any luck using the Deffkoptas for ramming speed mortal wounds? It seems like they could be a cheap way to deliver targeted mortal wounds where needed.

**Barney000**

JimOnMars wrote:
Barney000 wrote:
I've not been able to have a game with the new codex yet but am really liking the idea off a full squad off deffkoptas with rokkits. Using the evil suns strat for 48" range on the bombs seems tempting and then the -1 strat to protect them from return fire. Has anyone had any experience using big squads?
The bombs are gone from the codex, so if you are using index koptas you will need to pay the index price...and presumably they don't get kultures. Not likely any real value.

I have used some, and they can get some timely rokkit hits, finishing off vehicles that were wounded by tankbustas or mek guns, or blasting heavy infantry. They are pretty flexible with that range, stopping on objectives or getting behind things.

Mostly I've used them as distraction carnifexes, to be honest. 250 points for 5 is a bit high for the damage they can do.

I thought that using the GW flowchart you could use the codex datasheet but then chose a wargear option from the index? Please correct me if I am wrong.

A squad of five koptas would average about 9 mortal wounds to an squad of 5+ models, using the bombs. To do that with a 48" range seems powerful. Add in shooting and they could even make their points back in one turn against the right target.

**MannyMcCoconut**

Barney000 wrote:

A squad of five koptas would average about 9 mortal wounds to an squad of 5+ models, using the bombs. To do that with a 48" range seems powerful. Add in shooting and they could even make their points back in one turn against the right target.

I don't have the book in front of me, but I believe that ramming speed can only be used on a single vehicle model. I don't think it works on a squadron.

**Barney000**

MannyMcCoconut wrote:
Barney000 wrote:

A squad of five koptas would average about 9 mortal wounds to an squad of 5+ models, using the bombs. To do that with a 48" range seems powerful. Add in shooting and they could even make their points back in one turn against the right target.

I don't have the book in front of me, but I believe that ramming speed can only be used on a single vehicle model. I don't think it works on a squadron.

Oh I meant using the bigbomms from the index.