No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]

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**PiñaColada**

Also, GW could get real wonky with multiple instances of a powerful ork warlord such as Ghaz. If one is killed (which seems to be indicated in that trailer) then that might not be the end of him

**Jidmah**

That looks a lot like a quad autocannon, so it might be A7 AP-1. Won't hold my breath for D2 though.

**Hogiebear**

Jidmah wrote:
Lootas, tank bustas, smasha guns AND flash gits? That's almost enuff dakka!
In general, you should probably put some less points into shooting and more into bodies and flexibility.

Deep striking MANz are pretty good in EW/maelstrom - you deep strike them onto an objective that is not well defended, destroy whatever is on it and then keep it for yourself. Works especially well with objectives in cover, as 1+ armor MANz are pretty difficult to shift.

Also, don't worry too much about your opponent grinding trough your boyz/storm boyz. Their main objective is keeping your opponent in his deployment zone for the first three turns, and there are little to no VP gained from killing them - unlike in ITC.

Lots of dakka!! The list worked really well in ITC as, depending on the opponent, I used to put quite a bit in deepstrike and drop units in then blow stuff up. I’ve few games lined up next week so let’s see how the practice goes. First game, no flash gitz and trying the stormboys with warboss on bike again.
Second game I’ll try meganobs again. Hard to get the balance right.

**Vineheart01**

hypothetical of course, but they are making it sound like either Ghaz has a way to copy himself or rise again based on what weve heard and then that trailor. They make it sound like the Wolf Lord succeeded in killing Ghaz before and is about to do it again.

I hope his new quad-gun is actually good and not just a 12shot bigshoota.... bigshootas suck theyre probably a contender for worst gun in the codex and they keep forcing us to take more.

**Khorzain**

Maybe he looted a storm cannon array from all the freshly discarded Iron Hands Leviathans. One can dream right?

There was that bit in the lore about Ghazghkull being sighted in multiple places at the same time across entire sectors. I thought it was fancy tellyporta tek, but maybe the git figured out how to clone himself. That would solve the problem with the old "kill the Ork Warlord and his WAAAGH will fall apart" strategy.

Or maybe Gork and Mork made Ghazgkhull a Perpetual

**An Actual Englishman**

I hope Ghaz doesn't lose twice.

That'd be too much.

**Orkimedez_Atalaya**

I am to bet for a quad supashoota. 12shots s6 ap-1 d1.

**tneva82**

Barely enough to cause biw over a wound vs primaris marine in opek

**Orkimedez_Atalaya**

tneva82 wrote:
Barely enough to cause biw over a wound vs primaris marine in opek

If BS 4+ (i know he is currently 5+), that's 2/3 of a dakkajet. Not bad as support.

He is meant to be in CC, not shooting.

Don't expect more, road to disappointment is a bumpy one.

**Grimskul**

As cool as that looks, i could just see that as an assault 12 Big shoota or something, GW really likes to give Ork characters crappy gun options for the most part, barring outliers like the SSAG, it's criminal that despite Warbosses being known for hoarding the lion's share of loot that they can't even have snazzguns. gitfinders or something.

**flandarz**

Yeah, I wouldn't hold your breath on a good ranged option in Ghaz. For Orkz, you either have a decent CC option OR a decent gun (and sometimes you don't get either). We'll never get a character with both.

**Grumblewartz**

Vineheart01 wrote:
hypothetical of course, but they are making it sound like either Ghaz has a way to copy himself or rise again based on what weve heard and then that trailor. They make it sound like the Wolf Lord succeeded in killing Ghaz before and is about to do it again.

I hope his new quad-gun is actually good and not just a 12shot bigshoota.... bigshootas suck theyre probably a contender for worst gun in the codex and they keep forcing us to take more.

He said he swore to kill "Thraka" before. Thraka just means leader or warboss in the Ork language. So, he killed a warboss, not the Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka.

**Jidmah**

There is also a non-zero chance that Mad Dok Grotznik just stapled his head back on

**Moriarty**

Vineheart01 wrote:
that strat is pretty useless.
People dont even use the better version of it (which costs the same btw) because its so swingy.

Accepted. But given the problem seemingly ignores normal wounds and shoots off multiple units per turn, is there _another_ option to just shaking hands and ‘gg’? The 3cp you use _could_ be spent on other strats, but which ones would do damage given the op’s description of the problem?

**tneva82**

SSAG seems like best option to me.

**r_squared**

Chaos Legionnaire wrote:
I need some help against marines.
My main opponent has begun running imperial fists primaris with a castle of six dakka centurions in cover, usually deployed near the center of the board.
He has the special apothecary with them who can heal twice per turn, as well as a librarian who can heal.
He keeps a chaplain dread nearby for litanies as well as a special character (I forget the name) who hands out buffs as well.
Between all of these buffs, plus devastator protocols, plus stratagems (trans human, auspex scan, etc.) I cant seem to kill a single one of these guys, nor can I afford to ignore them, as they casually overkill two or three of my units per turn.
He also brings an abundance of stalker bolt rifles for targeting characters, as well as jumpack troops for deep strike shenanigans, and the usual MSU primaris squads for objective grabbing and deep strike mitigation.
All of these other threats are dealt with easily, but man, that castle...
Any wisdom/kunnin from you lot is greatly appreciated.
Our games are usually 2000 points and I run mono clan freebootaz.

As an aside, I have been playing since 2003 and have amassed over 10,000 points of orks,
so let’s just assume I have plenty of everything to choose from for list building.

Except meganobz.
Never could get the hang of mega nobz...or Thursdays.

There is no one way of dealing with them unfortunately, double shooting Lootas, ssag, smasha guns will do good work, but you must focus fire everything at them until they're gone. That in itself is tricky. On the plus side, once they're gone, all those support characters are effectively wasted points.
Consider changing klans, or souping a det of klans to maximise effectiveness. Deathskulls sag, and any unit with kmbs or rokkits are great for stuff like this, really maximise your hard hitting effectiveness.
I'd also consider a burna bommer. Dropping bombs for mortal wounds is useful, as is the cover ignoring skorcha missile, however, it's fiery death can be utilised too. Ensure that you position it's final movement within 6" of the target unit for when it gets blown out of the sky for a 50% chance of 3 flat mortal wounds. Save a cp for that.

**Guyver 3**

How do people feel about manz? In the past I’ve always took boys over them but there’s allot of chat about them atm and they seem a good choice to counter the ridiculous amount of st4 shooting that marines of all flavours can put out,

Any success stories?

**PiñaColada**

If you're running MANZ then a painboy is a pretty good investment in my experience. Maybe it's more prevalent in my meta but being one-shotted by thunderhammers or repulsor executioners is no fun. IG with the hammer of sundrance and full payload manticores are also a pain (but then the save are better at least).

I really want to like MANZ but I really wish they'd be T5, as it'd help mitigate some of those things but also plenty of more common weaponry.

Plenty of people are putting them to good use but I think that's often plonking them down in cover on some objective which makes them durable but very static

**Jidmah**

Moriarty wrote:
Vineheart01 wrote:
that strat is pretty useless.
People dont even use the better version of it (which costs the same btw) because its so swingy.

Accepted. But given the problem seemingly ignores normal wounds and shoots off multiple units per turn, is there _another_ option to just shaking hands and ‘gg’? The 3cp you use _could_ be spent on other strats, but which ones would do damage given the op’s description of the problem?

Use weird boyz/warpheads. I'm currently experimenting with two in my buggy lists just so I can smite some of those hard-ass units out of the way. Besides that, you can just ram them with a random vehicle for mortal wounds.

**flandarz**

MANz have a fair amount of durability, especially backed by a KFF and/or a Painboy, but they fall short on damage output for the price you put into them. And, unfortunately, the current state of the game values killing potential over survivability. They can be useful for holding objectives, particularly in cover, but don't expect much more out of them.

**warhead01**

The one time I ran a MANZ list was 5th, if I recall it was 30 MANZ in 3 Battle wagons and it completely wrecked the other army, marines or something. Sadly it was an unintentional crushing of a new player. Poor fella had only played a few games prior to that. Wasn't my army either I didn't tend to field that many MANZ at the time. I think the game went 3 turns.
Makes me wonder if there is a way to replicate that in 8th, in away where it wouldn't suck.

**Vineheart01**

Not really.
MANz are cheaper than they were back then so it'd be easier to field that but problem is in 5th there wasnt as many weapons that were AP2, and unless it was AP1/2 they had their full 2+ save. On top of that, there werent many weapons that instakilled them at a high enough rate to get through 30 MANz so the 2W profile made a big difference.

In 8th even AP-1 is enough to chip through them, especially when a lot of AP-1 guns have stupid rate of fire right now. 2+ armor is nowhere near as valuable with the modifier armor value system.

**flandarz**

I believe that back then you could spread wounds around in a unit as well, which helps with ensuring a unit stays at peak "fighting fitness".

**warhead01**

So, really the delivery system is going to be key to get them stuck in most effectively. Seems like a good use of tellyporta. although mobs of 10 may be too many due to points and reserves restrictions? I might try 21, for points, and a Dok. Maybe try to coordinate that with a Jumped screen, something to open up a landing zone ahead of when the MANZ arrive. Have to make sure my MANZ aren't screened out. Might work but easily stopped by SM's I am sure.

**tulun**

It probably largely just depends what you face off against but yeah, MANZ are good but probably just a hair too expensive.

If PKs were more consistent this might be a different story. Seeing an entire 10 man squad warpathed bounce off of a 2 wound unit is depressing AF ( fun story from one of my games... although they did have -2 to hit with pk and an Eldar strat)

**flandarz**

Yeah, MANz lack punch in CC AND ranged. In both cases, each MAN is gonna average less than 1 damage, even against optimal targets.

Edit: in short, don't bring MANz expecting them to kill things. Bring them for their durability.

**tulun**

flandarz wrote:
Yeah, MANz lack punch in CC AND ranged. In both cases, each MAN is gonna average less than 1 damage, even against optimal targets.

Edit: in short, don't bring MANz expecting them to kill things. Bring them for their durability.

I was wondering if you could somehow mesh in something like a Nob w/ Waaagh Banner to up their consistency, but that's another 75 points for sniper bait, and you somehow have to keep him in 6" when they try to charge. Blech.

I really hope PA gives something like a +1 to hit in CC strat... that might actually make MANz a ton scarier.

**Vineheart01**

Orks could use a weapon option for nobz/bosses that isnt a kombi or mega expensive.

Kombiskorchas are technically strong, but at 17pts and such a short range its insanely difficult to justify it.
Kombi-rokkits are overpriced like regular rokkits, but on an expensive enough platform to really feel that overpricing.
Kustom Shootas just dont have the RoF to offset the lack of AP or strength.

I doubt we'd ever get one but it would be funny and fitting to get an Aggressor counterpart (that the right one i always get their names mixed up) where its just an absolute gakton of S4 attacks for the cost, but on a meganob platform so its slow and durable.
Arm-gattling gun and two shoulder-mounted gatling guns, still got a PK because ork.

**Haasbioroid**

Its HEEEEERRRRRREeee!!!!

Ghaz with nobs and meganobz and a quad shooter!

**tulun**

Well he's a massive bloke.

Also, he had his head ripped off and LIVED?