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To be fair, Ghaz isn't going to be fighting the same stuff that Boyz are, so having them rush up the board, wipe a Chaff unit, and clear the way for Ghaz is fine. He doesn't need to get stuck in with the same stuff the Boyz are fighting. He can wait a turn.

 flandarz wrote:
To be fair, Ghaz isn't going to be fighting the same stuff that Boyz are, so having them rush up the board, wipe a Chaff unit, and clear the way for Ghaz is fine. He doesn't need to get stuck in with the same stuff the Boyz are fighting. He can wait a turn.

Units have to be within 6" to get the +1 attack as well. That's not negligible...

Perhaps you could close the distance by running him out front with the 7" movement speed or run him up to the boyz for a turn.

Also, waiting a turn to use a 250+ point unit that already had to spend 2 turns doing nothing but walking?

They really need to FAQ this so that he is affected by Waaagh.

So, if I'm not mistaken:

1) Ghaz and Makari are two different units, so you would need to Tellyporta them separately.

2) Ghaz has no exploding 6's if added to a non-Goff detachment.

3) "Goff is da best" would apply to himself?

Well, he has a gun. Granted, it's practically just for show, but he'll do more than walking.

If your Boyz really need that +1 Attack, you might be charging the wrong units. I've never had a base Boy unit that still had a reasonable number of models fail to wipe out any chaff you throw them against. That +1 is really more useful for Ghaz.

I agree he needs to be affected by his own Waagh. The argument was that Boyz were too slow (which, granted, they are. But they can be decently quick if you abuse Advance like you should), and the insinuation that Ghaz should be charging alongside the Boyz (he really shouldn't. At best he'll take out six or so models. He really needs to be targeting Vehicles and Monsters).

Except he cant get the +1 attack so its 100% only for nearby ork infantry, i.e. boyz, nobz, meganobz.
None of which actually need it to kill what theyre going after, all of which are incredibly difficult to get into melee within 6" of him as it is and now even harder since he cant be in the wagon the nobz showed up in.

We can still "Fist of Gork" him to make him nastier, but my experience is once a weirdboy gets even remotely close to the front line it dies immediately.
So far everything i can think of to use him is eating a ton of cp...for something i can do already anyway

Why isnt the "Great Waaagh" just flatout Ork Unit anyway? The biggest and baddest Waagh should work on everything...period

Granted. Ugh... I really hope they FAQ that.

Apart from the things that need to be FAQed, my only disappointment really is that he doesn’t have a melee profile to kill hordes. No dmg spills over or extra, weaker attacks he can choose to do... much sadness.

A unit of Goff dreads and ghazzy would be pretty neat I think. Makari gives them all 6+fnp and ghaz gives them reroll 1 to hit.

Makari gives the fnp to units, not infantry, same as ghaz.

Not long now lads. No point worrying until we've seen more.

Makari can footslog btw, he isn't targetable.

Don't see the value in taking Ghaz' on foot at all though.

Gruxz wrote:
A unit of Goff dreads and ghazzy would be pretty neat I think. Makari gives them all 6+fnp and ghaz gives them reroll 1 to hit.

Makari gives the fnp to units, not infantry, same as ghaz.

Holy crap a silver lining i totally missed. The makari FNP is universal.
Thats amusing as hell. I might need to do that lol

Hmmm. Yeah the new Ghaz is a bit of a disappointment. Outside of tellyport striking him in he will only be seeing combat if the opponants coming to you. Even then that wastes half his abilities and requires an above average charge roll. The only thing we dont know so far is any possible strategems from saga.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

Gruxz wrote:
A unit of Goff dreads and ghazzy would be pretty neat I think. Makari gives them all 6+fnp and ghaz gives them reroll 1 to hit.

Makari gives the fnp to units, not infantry, same as ghaz.

Holy crap a silver lining i totally missed. The makari FNP is universal.
Thats amusing as hell. I might need to do that lol

Dudes he gives Bonebreakas a 6+++, hence my suggestion earlier of using the Blitz Brigade.

Edit - Although somehat unlikely they stay in his range.

Waaggh needs to work on him

And maybe we can get the rules guys to faq grotsnik to work on him. Since it’s the entire point of ghaz being alive in every story they write

Even w both those changes he’s a funsy character not a competitive choice at 280...

Amusing thought...

Make Makari the warlord. Fits the theme of what they've been doing about Makari being the big bad guy and Ghaz is his sidekick, gets an extra attack for another D3 mortal chance, and have freaking' fun getting slay the warlord off a 2+ invul guy lol.
I havnt seen a Vindicare in eons to say no invul for you snipesnipe dead.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Amusing thought...

Make Makari the warlord. Fits the theme of what they've been doing about Makari being the big bad guy and Ghaz is his sidekick, gets an extra attack for another D3 mortal chance, and have freaking' fun getting slay the warlord off a 2+ invul guy lol.
I havnt seen a Vindicare in eons to say no invul for you snipesnipe dead.

2++ and 6+++ he’s going to annoy combat locking units

I doubt there's many, if any, armies that can reliably deal 4+ Wounds to Ghaz a turn, so even if you footslog him and your opponent goes first, you should have a decent chance to get him into combat with something. He's decently quick with a 7" Move (which he should keep on your first go, even if your opponent goes first, since his first Wound Bracket is 7-12), and you can advance him on the first turn to get him close enough to threaten something on Turn 2 (10.5" average+6" on turn 2+charge range). It's certainly not as good as Tellyporting him in, but it can be done. Which is a lot better than most of our heavy hitters can boast.

Gruxz wrote:
A unit of Goff dreads and ghazzy would be pretty neat I think. Makari gives them all 6+fnp and ghaz gives them reroll 1 to hit.

Makari gives the fnp to units, not infantry, same as ghaz.

Now that's a thought...

Add a Kustom Force Field and that unit is pretty damn tough.

So typical GW, they don't even proofread well enough to see that he doesn't give himself the assault and charge ,and then leave him horribly overcosted and underpowered when not run as a Goff.

Why? Just why? Either Goffs stay terrible and he never sees play or they get buffed and then there's no point to Evil Sunz any more and everyone switches over, leaving everybody no better off than before. Except for a lot of repainting.

So you end up with this weird model that really has to be in the tellyporta despite their whole fluff being that he footslogs with Makari, that has to be a faction that doesn't mesh with tellyporta...and then after all that you get a model that's only good at killing stuff (centurions and vehicles) that no smart opponent is going to let you kill.

Basically, you're going to be absolutely slaughtering 50 points worth of chaff models with this guy! Woo hoo!

P.S. If you footslog him he can potentially take 4 in their psychic phase, 4 in their fighting phase, then get charged and die, or charge something on your turn and promptly die to overwatch before even getting a chance to do more than kill ~4-5 chaff models with one round of his cannon. Against armies like Grey Knights or Thousand Sons or Eldar he'll be lucky to even get one round of melee against a speed-bump unless you Tellyporta.

Yeah I hate that he doesn’t get a way to kill hordes. I just wish they’d given him a second profile to get even just 2 attacks for each 1 at the very least.

admittedly if grotsnik could heal ghaz, ghaz would be nearly unkillable.

Unless you could reliably psyker/shoot/assault him every round, Grotsnik + Medisquig = 2D3 heal a turn. Barring some bad luck, that heals faster than he gets hurt.

Still stupid. I'd rather him be untargetable and not have that rule while still having painboys do work on him.

yukishiro1 wrote:
So typical GW, they don't even proofread well enough to see that he doesn't give himself the assault and charge ,and then leave him horribly overcosted and underpowered when not run as a Goff.

Why? Just why? Either Goffs stay terrible and he never sees play or they get buffed and then there's no point to Evil Sunz any more and everyone switches over, leaving everybody no better off than before. Except for a lot of repainting.

So you end up with this weird model that really has to be in the tellyporta despite their whole fluff being that he footslogs with Makari, that has to be a faction that doesn't mesh with tellyporta...and then after all that you get a model that's only good at killing stuff (centurions and vehicles) that no smart opponent is going to let you kill.

Basically, you're going to be absolutely slaughtering 50 points worth of chaff models with this guy! Woo hoo!

Ideally they FAQ the Waaagh to affect him. Makari himself could potentially be used without Ghaz since he has a universal FNP aura that applies only to Goffs. Arguably that could open up some niche combos.

Makari has to be near ghaz to get that fnp.

W/o ghaz all makari is is a 6LD for gretchin and a laughably annoying to get rid of model.

I think you guys might be overreacting a bit because he wasn't "everything we wanted". Like saying "Ghaz will only ever be able to hit chaff" like you're not going to have Lootaz, Boyz, or any number of other choices to clear chaff out of the way for him. We have a habit of dismissing things before they even have a chance to be played. Give New Ghaz a chance before you relegate him to "fluffy games only" status.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Makari has to be near ghaz to get that fnp.

W/o ghaz all makari is is a 6LD for gretchin and a laughably annoying to get rid of model.

Damn it all

the can only take 4 damage a turn I suspect is being under estimaterd, that means Ghaz is on the board for 3 turns minimum, no matter HOW many tricks and tactics the enemy uses to remove it

It's 4 damage a phase, but for most armies that's gonna be the same as 4 damage a turn, yeah. Give or take a damage or two.

 flandarz wrote:
I doubt there's many, if any, armies that can reliably deal 4+ Wounds to Ghaz a turn, so even if you footslog him and your opponent goes first, you should have a decent chance to get him into combat with something. He's decently quick with a 7" Move (which he should keep on your first go, even if your opponent goes first, since his first Wound Bracket is 7-12), and you can advance him on the first turn to get him close enough to threaten something on Turn 2 (10.5" average+6" on turn 2+charge range). It's certainly not as good as Tellyporting him in, but it can be done. Which is a lot better than most of our heavy hitters can boast.

It’s not a turn it’s phase....losing first turn is already partial death sentence to ghaz.. regardless let’s say irks go first.....
Turn 1 ghaz on front line... he moves 7 in and adv d6... takes 4 wounds shooting which is easy for most armies... psychic phase takes more damage if able...
Turn 2 moves 6-7 in and d6 adv still can’t charge because waaggh doesn’t work. On average he moves 21 in so far that’s with him mov8ng 7m both turns and he still isn’t in your opponents deployment zone... he takes 4 more damage shooting maybe more in psychic phase.. he took at least 8 wounds.. he can’t charge you but you can charge him and give him 4 more since he’s already reduced profile...
It takes him to turn 3 to even get off a charge unless your opponent goes to him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
admittedly if grotsnik could heal ghaz, ghaz would be nearly unkillable.

Unless you could reliably psyker/shoot/assault him every round, Grotsnik + Medisquig = 2D3 heal a turn. Barring some bad luck, that heals faster than he gets hurt.

Still stupid. I'd rather him be untargetable and not have that rule while still having painboys do work on him.

kill grotsnik then ghaz ,it give ghaz enough time to cross the board

GK or 1K Sons -> Psyker 4 damage -> Shoot 4 damage -> Charge 4 damage = Dead 1 turn.
Anybody else that isnt Tau -> Shoot 4 damage 1 turn -> Shoot 4 damage 2nd turn -> Charge him, do 4 damage, dead.

Its per phase, not turn. Only real saving grace is 4++ can be lucky enough to just plink all damage off.

Im seeing ways to use him but its such a specific setup im wondering what else we have/what are we sacrificing to do it. He pretty much will be the focus of the army no matter what. And the ways im seeing to use him would crumble instantly if a vindicare existed to snipe Makari, and severely be hampered if any sniper got the painboy that keeps Medisquigging him.
Since orks have no reliable way to shut down snipers unless the opponent is an idiot.

I know. How many armies can you list that can deal 4+ Damage to Ghaz a turn? Most damage dealing Psychic Powers require the user to be within 18", so unlikely on turn 1. So to deal over 4 Damage to Ghaz a turn, the enemy has to expose themselves to either him, or the rest of your army. That's why I said that most armies aren't dealing over 4 Wounds to Ghaz a turn.

What opponents or boards do you play on that requires you to be in your opponent's deployment zone to charge ANYTHING he has? And, I assume the rest of your army is just sitting around, since apparently your opponent was able to bring a strong force to bear on Ghaz for 2 turns.

Ghaz 4 a phase is great it most likely means he lives 2 turns maybe 3 however his issue is slow moving melee unit with poor shooting and 6 in range melee buffs that are mostly Goff only meaning he takes forever to get into range to do what he is good at. By turn 3 he’s on his reduced profile and likely to little to late... fluff only model