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 Emicrania wrote:
I think that stratagem is best with kanz and deff dredd. [Mek shop]

The plane stratagem, you are REALLY getting overexcited about it. It already exploded on a 4+, which with a reroll was already 75% of chance to explode. Now we pay 1 CP to be sure.
Good? Yeah
Broken? Not by far.

I have played burna bommers quite a lot, and when one goes down on any enemy army, it usually wins the game. My opponents are so terrified of them, that entire castles have broken apart just to get out of the 6" blast radius.
Being able to straight up fly into the enemy and deal 3MW for every single unit, including every buff character, within 6" of a flyer base is absolutely insane. I fully expect a FAQ telling us that burna bommers don't crash and burn though.

Here's the kicker: That pyromaniacs subculture adds one to the burna bomms' rolls and re-rolls the skorcha missiles' number of shots roll. How about a pyromaniac air wing? Dealing mortal wounds on a 3+, killing infantry almost as good as a dakkajet and then start dropping 3MW on everything not properly screened? Hell yes. Hell indeed.

That warboss strat is from Facebook btw.

Best news all year. Go time.

my biker boss is going to love that strategem

while Ghaz is not looking to be worth it likely I still look forward to painting him up and having a centerpiece HQ in my display case. I will probably run him in some narrative events though to get some tabletop appearances.

I was really hoping that the changes would include ork burna boys being D6 like every other flamer out there but alas... fail by gw we get a strat requiring a useless spanner.

Great Waagh we alll know the problem

Blood axe psychic power is decent but limited to blood axe weirdboy which isn’t ideal and it really only matter vs tau or dark angels or similar armies with rough overwatch.

Pyro subkultur doesn’t make burnas burna bottles skorchas good, although skorcha missles and killa jets might be decent... but I hope we get something better then this and I hope it’s in addition to clan buffs.

Kustom jobs..... the mekshop isn’t worth 80 points even with the free kustom job saving you 1cp but this is the right direction maybe at 30 points or something. I’m assuming the old kustom jobs are gone...
Orky pistons might be okay in a dread list

Spanner is a useless strat for lootas just reroll it’s a cheaper cost and even if I’m all in on burnas w pyro subkultur giving my 2 dice with rerolls burnas are still bad

The exploding plane is useful when you want it.

Overall egh hopeful though

yukishiro1 wrote:
That's hugely awesome...though it is yet another reason not to take Ghaz. Lol.

You can also take it on the warbike (and mega-armor I guess, but...) since warboss is a keyword and all three variants have it. That 1CP is an autospend on a warbike warboss now.

Same thoughts for me.

By the way, Zhadsnark da Ripper is a WARBOSS


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gungo wrote:
Pyro subkultur doesn’t make burnas burna bottles skorchas good, although skorcha missles and killa jets might be decent... but I hope we get something better then this and I hope it’s in addition to clan buffs.

Burnas with re-rolls to number of shots and re-roll to wound in melee might actually be worth considering, but I doubt that there aren't better things to do with your culture.

Kustom jobs..... the mekshop isn’t worth 80 points even with the free kustom job saving you 1cp but this is the right direction maybe at 30 points or something. I’m assuming the old kustom jobs are gone...

Maybe if the mek shop lets you get multiple custom jobs, it might be worth it depending on the jobs. There might be something in there worth ~27 points per dread/buggy or 14 points per kan. Then again, you lose a detachment to field a mek shops, soooo...

the +1 to the burna bomb roll sounds nifty. Could see that being really annoying.

 Jidmah wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
That's hugely awesome...though it is yet another reason not to take Ghaz. Lol.

You can also take it on the warbike (and mega-armor I guess, but...) since warboss is a keyword and all three variants have it. That 1CP is an autospend on a warbike warboss now.

Same thoughts for me.

By the way, Zhadsnark da Ripper is a WARBOSS


[

Oh Lord Jesus hold me.

And you can make a speed waaagh detachment with the relic bike on a wartrike.

I just realized that you can use two burna bombers to clear a spot crash the third one into.

I guess the time has finally come to built the third set of burna bomms.

Man... why you do this, GW? Give us a great looking Ghaz, give him some solid stats, then forget to give us a way to deliver him. Then you drop a "make any Warboss into Ghaz" Stratagem. I want to like our Prophet, dammit! Stop making it hard!

Us orks don't know what we want! People are complaining that Ghazz isn't good or competitive and then we are given a great Stratagem to use that makes an already decent unit awesome and people complain about it!

 flandarz wrote:
Man... why you do this, GW? Give us a great looking Ghaz, give him some solid stats, then forget to give us a way to deliver him. Then you drop a "make any Warboss into Ghaz" Stratagem. I want to like our Prophet, dammit! Stop making it hard!

Yeah, that really undercuts his announcement rules-wise. He's really just a really good centerpiece now to have in your glass case at this point. Why did they do my boy so dirty :(


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 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:


Us orks don't know what we want! People are complaining that Ghazz isn't good or competitive and then we are given a great Stratagem to use that makes an already decent unit awesome and people complain about it!

Don't get me wrong, I love the stratagem they gave us, since its like the SM chapter master one but on steroids for what it costs. It just sucks that it makes Ghazzy, an already questionable competitive choice, even look worse in comparison when it's cross kultur, AND you can't have it alongside Ghazzy himself, so everyone will default to their own instead.

 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:


Us orks don't know what we want! People are complaining that Ghazz isn't good or competitive and then we are given a great Stratagem to use that makes an already decent unit awesome and people complain about it!

Nah, this is great! It clears up a ton of funds to buy a FW bikerboss!

It also means I get to play Evil Sunz and forget about Goffa! Total win.

that strat really should have just said you cant give it to Ghaz. And name it something else like "Ghazkhull's Right Hand" so it thematically doesnt break anything about Ghaz not being "the biggest boss"

Wouldnt have hurt anything to do that. As someone who's used a warboss with Best Armor Teef Can Buy, that 4++ helps a lot but a boss still dies pretty fast if hes actually swung at, just usually 2-3 attacks more needed than normal.

The rule itself is amazing and will be surprising to see an army w/o that on a boss from now on. Its...just really really dumb that they actually gave us an incentive to not use the new big shiny model. Since when does GW give you a reason to NOT get something new? Usually it's the other way around "Must have Ghaz in your army though he cannot benefit from this himself" lol

 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:


Us orks don't know what we want! People are complaining that Ghazz isn't good or competitive and then we are given a great Stratagem to use that makes an already decent unit awesome and people complain about it!

I think it's more melancholy than straight up complaining.

I can't think of a reason to field Ghaz at 200 more points (assuming we are correct about the PL) when the walking boss was already close in offensive output. Now it can take a punch and do JUST AS MUCH DAMAGE for only 1 CP.

I'll probably field my new Artel W warboss as a MA boss just for fun next time I play with this. Make him my Warlord, as befits a bad ass.

Yeesh, everyone is so down on Ghaz.

He's fine. Not "add him to any army and he makes that army better," but "if you want to play him and you build around him you're not really gimping yourself." Build around him to take advantage of what he brings to the table and he can work. He's probably not going to be showing up on any top tables but he's also not going to be an automatic ticket to the bottom tables either. Unless you're really gunning for an overall win at a bigger event there's probably no reason not to bring him if you've got the models to take advantage of his buffs and he appeals to your play style.

I want to give him a go with two foot bosses, one with da killa klaw and the other with da lukky stick. Not much survives getting hit by that.

(And yes, I am an incorrigible optimist)

 godardc wrote:
How is Killing a single intercessor and half any good ?
Especially with such a big base, it's super easy to stop the plane going where it wants to be

People used to screen against Mawlocs know this. Yet this strat is much better than mawloc with blood of Baal strat. Broken ? Surely not iif your opponent is not too bad a player

 flandarz wrote:
Piston Job:

Most efficient on Dreadz, but they also need it the least.

Surprisingly decent on the Stompa, making it more likely you get the big boy into CC, but... it's still the Stompa, so pass.

Best unit to use it on is Kanz. For 300ish pts, you got fairly mobile a durable platform of 6 BS4+ Rokkitz. Take em in a Dreadwaagh and you could double-shoot and net an average of 7 hits. Not too shabby for 300 pts.

You can even put it on a Stompa to begin with so it doesnt matter hahaha

 deffrekka wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
I think that stratagem is best with Kanz and deff Dredd. [Mek shop]

The plane stratagem, you are REALLY getting overexcited about it. It already exploded on a 4+, which with a reroll was already 75% of chance to explode. Now we pay 1 CP to be sure.
Good? Yeah
Broken? Not by far.

But you weren't really in control of when or if it exploded. People could ignore it, people could fail to kill it, you could fail on a reroll to explode it. Now you get to decide when it explodes, it's in your turn. The opponent doesn't have a turn to move out of the way and then shoot at it. You are taking out a lot of variables that could go wrong with this stratagem. It's not broken, but it is damn well pretty good. Codexes have ways to auto explode their vehicles but they have to die first and usually, they are already in your lines so it isn't as good. And mostly you'd only do it when you're in CC anyway. So Flyin' Headbutt is actually really good, and people are allowed to get excited about it as it gives us options.

By all means, don't make me curb your, or anybody's enthusiasm. I'm very happy to see some positive feedback in this 3d

HOWEVER
it takes one gotcha in order to screen correctly such a large base. I strongly encourage you guys to try it at home. Test things at home before being disappointed on the board. Always. From screening to new stratagems and strategies. And remember that you are paying 133 AND a CP in order to deal that damage. AND you fly in a straight line with the planes. AND you might go second. AND if you play it you know this going first and who's going second.

I played 7 months of freebooters itc and had some fairly good results with 3 planes BEFORE marines got godlike. It ain't s pretty sight getting shelled to death with some stalker rifle

So yeah, is a good tool, but calling it gamebreaking is BS.

Awesome zhardsnark or bikerboss w relic strat da biggest no need to worry about ghaz now

Durable, hard hitting and delivery plus not locked in goff
This is great..

Now what to do with my old ghaz model? Is he just another mega armor nob?
Warboss in mega armour is legends so it’s out.
Biker boss w relic klaw or zhardsnark is great now

 TedNugent wrote:
Nah, this is great! It clears up a ton of funds to buy a FW bikerboss!

It also means I get to play Evil Sunz and forget about Goffa! Total win.

Welcome to funOrks

Zhadsnark's model is beautiful and Speedfreeks are a blast to play (if underpowered as it stands today).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm guessing GW think people will buy Ghaz and play him as another boss.

I doubt they'll let that stratagem work on a named character. That seems like it'll go away in an errata to me, but that's just a hunch obviously. On another note, if we get an extra warlord trait as a stratagem as well then that warboss can be a really effective missile without the usual drawback of giving up warlord kill.

Or if we get the two warlord traits on a single character instead then we can make a truly nasty warboss (I just hope we get one of those strats)

We might be catapulted in an era of characters spam

 Jidmah wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
I think that stratagem is best with kanz and deff dredd. [Mek shop]

The plane stratagem, you are REALLY getting overexcited about it. It already exploded on a 4+, which with a reroll was already 75% of chance to explode. Now we pay 1 CP to be sure.
Good? Yeah
Broken? Not by far.

I have played burna bommers quite a lot, and when one goes down on any enemy army, it usually wins the game. My opponents are so terrified of them, that entire castles have broken apart just to get out of the 6" blast radius.
Being able to straight up fly into the enemy and deal 3MW for every single unit, including every buff character, within 6" of a flyer base is absolutely insane. I fully expect a FAQ telling us that burna bommers don't crash and burn though.

Here's the kicker: That pyromaniacs subculture adds one to the burna bomms' rolls and re-rolls the skorcha missiles' number of shots roll. How about a pyromaniac air wing? Dealing mortal wounds on a 3+, killing infantry almost as good as a dakkajet and then start dropping 3MW on everything not properly screened? Hell yes. Hell indeed.

This is what I suggested early Defo makes the choice between Burna and Blitza even more clear cut now. What if there is a strat to drop both bombs in 1 run!

I'm not trying to be down on Ghaz. Just saying that this Strat basically invalidates any reason to take him. A Codex Evil Sunz Warboss with this Strat, Might is Right, and Da Killa Klaw outdoes Ghaz in almost everything, for a third of the cost. Durability is actually higher as you have character protection, Grot Shields, and the ability to be healed more reliably, even if you lose 5 Wounds, you don't have a 2+, and lose the "Max 4" ability. He's as fast as Ghaz on his second Wound bracket, has more reliable charges, and can be Da Jump'd, giving him more mobility. He has as many attacks as Ghaz on his second bracket, and his Strength equals Ghaz on his first bracket, he rerolls failed Wounds and Ghaz rerolls 1s to hit, and he loses 1 Damage (the loss of 1 AP is negligible) so I'd say they're a wash for CC damage. At this point, the only thing Ghaz does better is shoot Infantry (if you got a Kombi-Rokkit, you're actually better against some targets).

That's why I'm so disappointed. It isn't that Ghaz is bad, per se. It's that they just made him so much worse than a "generic" Warboss.

warboss is gonna have so much Cp dumped on him...

1 for Da Biggest Boss
1 for Relic
1 for Extra Warlord Trait (if its a thing)

And thats just the building part, nevermind the during the turn stuff.

Somehow i feel skeptical about putting all that into 1 T5 4++ save model....when so many things in melee can kill him in 2 hits anyway.

 Jidmah wrote:
I just realized that you can use two burna bombers to clear a spot crash the third one into.

I guess the time has finally come to built the third set of burna bomms.

why didnt you have 3 to begin with ahaha I have 5 Dakkajets, 3 of each Bommer and then only 1 Wazbom. I loved the Ork planes in older editions.

PiñaColada wrote:
I doubt they'll let that stratagem work on a named character. That seems like it'll go away in an errata to me, but that's just a hunch obviously. On another note, if we get an extra warlord trait as a stratagem as well then that warboss can be a really effective missile without the usual drawback of giving up warlord kill.

Or if we get the two warlord traits on a single character instead then we can make a truly nasty warboss (I just hope we get one of those strats)

It’s not like warboss in bike w relic klaw and warlord trait is much worse? It actually might be better.

 Emicrania wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
I think that stratagem is best with Kanz and deff Dredd. [Mek shop]

The plane stratagem, you are REALLY getting overexcited about it. It already exploded on a 4+, which with a reroll was already 75% of chance to explode. Now we pay 1 CP to be sure.
Good? Yeah
Broken? Not by far.

But you weren't really in control of when or if it exploded. People could ignore it, people could fail to kill it, you could fail on a reroll to explode it. Now you get to decide when it explodes, it's in your turn. The opponent doesn't have a turn to move out of the way and then shoot at it. You are taking out a lot of variables that could go wrong with this stratagem. It's not broken, but it is damn well pretty good. Codexes have ways to auto explode their vehicles but they have to die first and usually, they are already in your lines so it isn't as good. And mostly you'd only do it when you're in CC anyway. So Flyin' Headbutt is actually really good, and people are allowed to get excited about it as it gives us options.

By all means, don't make me curb your, or anybody's enthusiasm. I'm very happy to see some positive feedback in this 3d

HOWEVER
it takes one gotcha in order to screen correctly such a large base. I strongly encourage you guys to try it at home. Test things at home before being disappointed on the board. Always. From screening to new stratagems and strategies. And remember that you are paying 133 AND a CP in order to deal that damage. AND you fly in a straight line with the planes. AND you might go second. AND if you play it you know this going first and who's going second.

I played 7 months of freebooters itc and had some fairly good results with 3 planes BEFORE marines got godlike. It ain't s pretty sight getting shelled to death with some stalker rifle

So yeah, is a good tool, but calling it gamebreaking is BS.

Oi I never said it was gamebreaking im just saying its pretty damn good. 133pts and 1CP to do that much potential damage is big. It will more than likely earn his pts back. How many things in the Ork Codex can pull off as much work as a Flyin' Headbutt Burna-Bommer for the same amount of pts. Its not even solely about the raw damage output either, its how it makes your opponent react.

GW doesn't always nerf things because they're "bad". Sometimes they just do it because it's "not what we envisioned".

Also, to be fair, isn't the Biker Boss Legends anyway?

Probably, I'm just saying that GW allowing people to "upgrade" named characters doesn't seem like something they'd do. But honestly this strat is so insanely good that I think most of us would get it for 2CP without too much hesitation. Just an extra wound is a decent upgrade if you don't use up your WT to get it since going from 6 to 7 wounds means both damage 2 and 3 weapons (and d6) have a tougher time against you. Getting that, +1 attack and a 4++ is bonkers good and actually makes the warboss fearsome.

Super stoked, we got something amazing already. Bring on a few more good things and the rest can just be weird, fun orky stuff and I couldn't be happier