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Hi guys,

I had a go at writing a list of (what I think are) the best units in the game right now. I'd really appreciate it if you had a look and let me know your thoughts!

https://www.caledoniandeathwatchnetwork.co.uk/?p=1254

No, lootas are highly overrated. The 15+10 thing means that if you go second you can use grot shields only on one unit and the second one evaporates with a bolter volley. But even with 25 if rolling average we're not talking about something that can 1-shot a knight. And that's 425 points plus at least 90 points of gretchins and several CPs invested. Grot shield also require key positioning as gretchins must be closer to the shooter than the lootas to protect them.

I wouldn't place them in the top50, so are talos which are competitive but not that good. Just thinking about drukhari grotesques and ravagers are certainly more effective than them. Knights are top 1.

I'd also cut ork boyz from the honorable mention, they were very good before, now competitive ork lists seem to avoid them in mass. Kabalite warriors and regular guardsmen are way more efficient as troop choices, but also gretchins seem more important with orks than boyz.

Surprised not to see Jetbike Captains on that list, and just as surprised to see Talos on there. They're good, I'll give him that, but I wouldn't say they're the best in the game, not even the best in the Codex, Grotesques are nastier in my opinion. Also no idea why Riptides are in there.

Honestly, my iteration of that list would go something like:
10. Lootas
9. Infantry Squad (not the most powerful, but more about their cheap cost getting you CPs)
8. Cultists (same reason as above)
7. Genestealers
6. Shining Spears
5. Vertus Jetbikes
4. Smash Captain
3. Grotesques
2. Jetbike Captain
1. Raven Castellan

 Blackie wrote:
No, lootas are highly overrated. The 15+10 thing means that if you go second you can use grot shields only on one unit and the second one evaporates with a bolter volley. But even with 25 if rolling average we're not talking about something that can 1-shot a knight. And that's 425 points plus at least 90 points of gretchins and several CPs invested. Grot shield also require key positioning as gretchins must be closer to the shooter than the lootas to protect them.

Umm grot screen is basically as strong as you want to invest. Sure if there's just 10 grots it's easy. Howabout 50? Remember you can use any grot unit nearby. 5 units of 10 near and that's 50 grots to clear out.

And circle around lootas. Where-ever attack comes you are closer to enemy and then just remove casualties from convenient place of one unit. Again remember each grot can be from different unit so you have 5 units you can pick 1 from each unit if so needed for 5 wounds.

Oh and btw as for one unit...Gee that's why they start out of LOS from which they either move or da jump with zero effect on shooting.

This list is missing flyrants. Genestealers are excellent in moderation but flyrants were the thing that got spammed 9 times to dominate a whole season pre-FAQ.

10+15 Lootas mob up, more dakka, shoot again = 425 points + 5 CP, you kill some units, and then you DIE.


This would be the same as saying: 30 + 10 boyz mob up + skarboyz + fighting twice, this is so cool on paper but then you do it and next turn you die and you lost a lot of CP and units.

The real overpowered units on orks are GRETCHLINS, you can denie every single shoot of an imperial knight with a gretchlin, meaning 3 shoots with 4 wounds are stopped with 3 gretchlins, overpowered as feth

Kebabcito wrote:
10+15 Lootas mob up, more dakka, shoot again = 425 points + 5 CP, you kill some units, and then you DIE.

Ummmm...I think you underestimate how hard it is actually kill stuff that has 2++ and in most tables are bullet proof on T1 as you can hide them out of LOS without any issue so even if you go 2nd they will get to fire at full strenght once minimum.

tneva82 wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
No, lootas are highly overrated. The 15+10 thing means that if you go second you can use grot shields only on one unit and the second one evaporates with a bolter volley. But even with 25 if rolling average we're not talking about something that can 1-shot a knight. And that's 425 points plus at least 90 points of gretchins and several CPs invested. Grot shield also require key positioning as gretchins must be closer to the shooter than the lootas to protect them.

Umm grot screen is basically as strong as you want to invest. Sure if there's just 10 grots it's easy. Howabout 50? Remember you can use any grot unit nearby. 5 units of 10 near and that's 50 grots to clear out.

And circle around lootas. Where-ever attack comes you are closer to enemy and then just remove casualties from convenient place of one unit. Again remember each grot can be from different unit so you have 5 units you can pick 1 from each unit if so needed for 5 wounds.

Oh and btw as for one unit...Gee that's why they start out of LOS from which they either move or da jump with zero effect on shooting.

Even with 50 grots those lootas are going to shoot for two rounds at most, but probably after turn 1 the opponent will likely find a way to outmaneuver the remaining grots. With the weirdboy that's another 62 points invested on them, the teleported lootas hit on 6s now and you're forced to invest even more CPs.

For the same amount of points and CPs invested there are better ranged anti tank options, like tankbustas and mek gunz. I'm not saying they're bad of course, but why not just taking 2x15 tankbustas + 6 bomb squigs then? 1 squad deployed by tellyporta, the other one delivered by da jump. Less durability probably (they have good synergy with melee units that keep pressure, providing more priority targets) but better damage output against the things you really want to wreck, aka kngihts.

I haven't done the math considering the same amount of points and CPs invested but I don't think that the 25 lootas combo is that powerful.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kebabcito wrote:
10+15 Lootas mob up, more dakka, shoot again = 425 points + 5 CP, you kill some units, and then you DIE.

It's more than that, you also have to consider how many points of grots are invested only for protect them. And if you use da jump there are also the 62 points of the weirdboy to add. Points invested can even be 600ish for that combo. Since da jump is really useful in turn 1, many times there isn't a unit that is that good to be teleported in turns 2+. In fact if I want da jump I always invest a CP to get a second psychic power for the weirdboy.

I would rate shield drones pretty high. Those are annoying as hell. Compared to gretchins they cost no cp, have fnp and auto convert all damage to one wound.

"Lascannon? Oh it hit the drone, then its only one dmg. Here comes the fnp+. I rolled a 5. Lascannon does nonthing! "

Uuh you have weirdboyz and grots anyway. Or were you planning to play with single patrol detachment only? Orks want minimum 6 troop and 4 hq. Preferably 9/6. Can't do that without grots and weirdboys.

Lootas ARE pretty priority, and it's why I like to include other hard-hitting units in my list. If your opponent has to choose between Tankbustas and Lootas, they have a harder choice to make than picking between Lootas and Grots. Also, ideally, if you're fielding Lootas and investing CP to make em beefy, you wanna put some support units nearby to keep them on their feet. Big Mek with KFF and Painboy (if you got the points), but I still think target saturation is a better strategy.

No love for the Cadian mortars.

Company commander, 3 infantry squads with plasma guns and mortars, 3 mortar squads=285 points, or 249 with bare bones infantry.

Hide mortar out of los, 1 cp to combine squad 2 of them so they can all have orders from a single CC which will be full rerolling to hit. 30 obsec bodies is also some extra icing on the cake.

It's some of the best points an imperial player can spend and gives 5 CP

A deep striking unit of ten wraithguard with cannons is very good. Thirty T6 wounds with a 3+ save, ten S10, -4, D6 damage shots for 400 pts, factor in guide and doom to re-roll everything and they will do massive damage. They have the durability and board control to be a real menace to your opponent. They're decent enough in melee and can fall back and shoot. An all round great unit with no real weakness.

Adeptus Custodes: Vertus Praetors and Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike.

Adeptus Mechanicus: Skitarii Rangers and Kastelan Robots.

Astra Militarum: Infantry Squads and Company Commanders.

Blood Angels: Smash Captain and Chief Librarian Mephisto.

Chaos Daemons: Plaguebearers and Bloodletters.

Chaos Space Marines: Cultists and Khorne Berzerkers.

Craftworlds: Farseers and Warlocks.

Dark Angels: Hellblasters and Azreal.

Dark Eldar: Ravager and Venom.

Death Guard: Daemon Prince and Mortarion.

Deathwatch: Watch Captain and Intercessors.

Grey Knights: Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight.

Harlequins: Skyweavers and Solitaire.

Knights: Castellan and Errant.

Necrons: Tesseract Vault and Destroyers.

Orks: Mek Gunz and Weird Boyz.

Space Marines: Roboute Guilliman and Hellblasters.

Space Wolves: Long Fangs and Wulfen.

Tau Empire: Drones and Commanders.

Thousand Sons: Daemon Prince and Magnus.

Tyranids: Malanthrope and Flyrant.

Ynnari: Yvraine, Dark Reapers and Shining Spears.

Those are IMO the most powerful and important units for each codex/faction, these are the units when I see I think this opponent isn't fooling around and when people show up to casual games with more than a few of these units I get grumpy.

You see necrons the mono dimensional mars castle and grey knights and think this opponent isnt fooling around?

Knights surely castellan and styrix if you only pick 2

Just running thise factions tends to mean you are

U02dah4 wrote:
You see necrons the mono dimensional mars castle and grey knights and think this opponent isnt fooling around?

Knights surely castellan and styrix if you only pick 2

Just running thise factions tends to mean you are

I play Necrons, if my opponent is spamming Vaults and/or Destroyers and I'm not then I'm at a big disadvantage. If the only GK unis you bring is 3 Super Dreadknights you can still make an overall scary list. Some people will say their list is semi-competitive if it's not a less than 3 month old GT top 3 list, but personally, I find almost every Asuryani, Drukhari, Astra Militarum and Imperial Knights list to be competitive, almost regardless of specific contents.

Surprised not to see the culexus. For 85 pts you get to dominate all psychic phases, as your opponent deducts 2 from all rolls.

Northern85Star wrote:
Surprised not to see the culexus. For 85 pts you get to dominate all psychic phases, as your opponent deducts 2 from all rolls.

He is hard to use, if you want him to be effective, you push him forward alone. Where he would be singled out and destroyed, should enemy have enough number of shots / attacks he will be brought down.

tneva82 wrote:
Uuh you have weirdboyz and grots anyway. Or were you planning to play with single patrol detachment only? Orks want minimum 6 troop and 4 hq. Preferably 9/6. Can't do that without grots and weirdboys.

Very true. But both are useful also to do other things than buffing lootas, you may want them for other jobs. A full brigade could also work, I'm trying a deathskulls one right now and I don't have any weirdboyz. Lots of index options required though, not always accepted.

Talos over Ravager? Vertus over Shield caps on Dawneagles? Cults ofver IG? lol ok.

Lootas definitely belong on that list, they rival the Castellan in turning CP into damage. Mob up, more dakka, then shoot twice is brutal when you can protect them with Grots.

I'll throw Celestine into the mix as well, probably on the lower end of the top 10.

I'd say some mix of Nurglings, Epidemius, Vertus Praetors, Shield Captains on Bikes, Castellans, Infantry, Cultists, Lootas, Grots, Celestine, Yvraine, Bobby G, and the Deciever. The last two have the misfortune of being in terrible codexes.

Edit: Oh yeah, how could I forget Talos and Grotesques.

 Perth wrote:
Lootas definitely belong on that list, they rival the Castellan in turning CP into damage. Mob up, more dakka, then shoot twice is brutal when you can protect them with Grots.

I don't know if I want to say they're overrated considering I've lost all my battles against Codex Orks (always against 25 Lootas), but that tactic is really expensive CP-wise, Orks have a 60% chance of going second, depending on matchup and terrain that can mean the secondary Loota squad getting shot to pieces or being forced to da jump into position. Then there's the price of Grots compared to Brimstone Horrors or Infantry Squads. I think for all the damage Orks have done to me with Lootas, taking more Boyz and using Endless Green Horde 4 times each game and fight twice a couple of times as well would let them kill me just as hard while having more board control instead of spending all their CP gunning me down, it might just feel more OP when 25 17 pt models do so much, but you should factor in the cost of Grots in that situation as well and the opportunity cost of using other Stratagems less.

I have a sneaking suspicion that all the ork players I've been seeing bagging on lootas are doing it on purpose to try and convince everyone else that they aren't really that good so they don't take counters for them, lol. In all honesty they are good, yes they suck up a lot of cp's, but that's just because they're that good with cp investment. The grot investment isn't a valid argument because grots are a mandatory part of every ork army now, also I have no idea how your opponent is going to magically outmaneuver your lootas who are parked in the back of your deployment zone surrounded by grots and mek gunz, but hey just my two cents.

A doomsday ark is a damn good necron unit. Fly, 12" movement, living metal, the doomsday cannon can lay a s10 ap 5 d6 dam smack down out to 72" and the gauss flayer can pump out 10-20 s4 ap1 shots depending on range.

Lootas? Lootas are not even one of the ten best units in the Ork codex.

Please list the 10 (or more) superior units. Should lead to some good discussion.

pismakron wrote:
Lootas? Lootas are not even one of the ten best units in the Ork codex.

No, but you can play a powerful list tailored around them. The 25 lootas combo protected by 60+ grots and joined by a green tide, usually 3x30 evil sunz boyz, in a triple battallion grants 18-19 CPs, enough to dump 5 of them per turn on lootas with no problem and with all characters and cheap bodies. It's definitely a competitive way to play orks. Is it the most competitive one that orks can field? I don't think so, but certainly very effective, I've tested it in a few games so far.

In the ork codex there are only 3 units that are basically mandatory and shine above all the other entries: biker boss with relic klaw, gretchins and weirdboy. Maybe also smasha guns. Everything else is sub-par.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eldarain wrote:
Please list the 10 (or more) superior units. Should lead to some good discussion.

For sure: Ravagers with disintegrator cannons, guardsmen and cheap commanders, shield captain on bike, farseer, celestine and roboute. IG mortars and wyverns also.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
A doomsday ark is a damn good necron unit. Fly, 12" movement, living metal, the doomsday cannon can lay a s10 ap 5 d6 dam smack down out to 72" and the gauss flayer can pump out 10-20 s4 ap1 shots depending on range.

Being a necron player I agree.. but it's d6 shots. So yes it's a powerful vehicle for necrons but sub par to all other armies..

 Blackie wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Please list the 10 (or more) superior units. Should lead to some good discussion.

For sure: Ravagers with disintegrator cannons, guardsmen and cheap commanders, shield captain on bike, farseer, celestine and roboute. IG mortars and wyverns also.

They named all those new Ork units in a really strange unOrky fashion.

 Eldarain wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Please list the 10 (or more) superior units. Should lead to some good discussion.

For sure: Ravagers with disintegrator cannons, guardsmen and cheap commanders, shield captain on bike, farseer, celestine and roboute. IG mortars and wyverns also.

They named all those new Ork units in a really strange unOrky fashion.

I thought for a moment you were referring to the original article which was about the top units in 40k, not just in the ork codex. But yeah, sure you were definitely referring to orks

Well to answer that:

Warboss with relic klaw (especially the biker one but also on foot)
Weirdboy
Gretchin
Smasha Guns
Tankbustas

Those units are the best orks entries and perform well regardless of the kultur chosen. I'd also rate Boyz, Trukks, BWs, Bonebreakas, Nobz and Traktor Kannons over Lootas. Then I'd put Lootas along with 4-5 other entries which are basically on the same level.