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I've never tried with an airbrush, just painted them with brush.. and that needed many coats and prep, and blending never seemed to come out right.

And I don't feel it is just me. I think enough people have voiced issues with it.

Part of the reason I've stuck with Ultramarines for the last 20+ years is the ability to easily paint them.

 Crimson wrote:

Reemule wrote:
The only issue I have with Fists is painting Yellow makes me want to throat slap a Granny.

I really don't understand this angst about painting yellow. I don't have Imperial Fists, but my Imperial Knights and Ad Mech are yellow. Sure, yellow paints often have somewhat weak pigment (though Averland Sunset has a great coverage) but if you're painting on white or yellow primer it is really no problem at all.

I don't know about 40k Imperial Fists, but 30k Imperial Fists are Yellow and Black, which are awful to try and paint together. Covering black over yellow is fine, but painting yellow over black is a massive pain.

No wonder why most tutorials I've seen for Imperial Fists are " Yellow then black and be absolutely perfect with no mistakes ever.'

Arcanis161 wrote:


I don't know about 40k Imperial Fists, but 30k Imperial Fists are Yellow and Black, which are awful to try and paint together. Covering black over yellow is fine, but painting yellow over black is a massive pain.

Right. Which is why you don't paint yellow over black. (If you absolutely need to, paint it with good coverage whiteish paint first, then yellow.)

I'm not sure why, but I've had a lot more luck painting dark colors over with *silver* than white, then paint over the silver.

fraser1191 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Dorn is the most unlikable Primarch in the setting. I do understand the attraction to Fists though. Extremely disciplined and battle hardened warriors with a cool color scheme.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 fraser1191 wrote:
I play Ultramarines because I genuinely like them.

I'd also say that most the the hatred is really childish. For example I hate the naming structure of Space wolves, it drives me bonkers, I'm also not a huge fan of Emporers children and their fluff. But if a book comes out focusing on either of those factions I'm not gonna say "oh why is there a book coming out for Fulgrim, he's dumb" (I don't actually hate fulgrim just an example). I don't see the point in hating on someone's enjoyment of a faction

Point is paint what you like and don't be concerned with what other people say. Dakka is incredibly opinionated so I'm sure someone will tell me how Ultramarines are the worst

I wonder if you'd feel the same when the 100th EC release comes out while you are still using models from 20 years ago and like 4 novels. I got nothing against UM, but they so get an extreme amount of attention compared to other factions, and if everything was EC you'd probably be a little annoyed the next release they got.

Well I got Primaris which look really nice and since plastic won't break down in 20 years I'd be fine with it. I could probably buy a overly nice car with all those savings

Thats exactly it. You've got Primaris etc, pretty easy to sit back and act like its not a problem that you would be bothered by.

Meanwhile, the faction you referenced has been stuck with this for 20 years:




Calgar has had 4 different models in that time.

fraser1191 wrote:Isn't that also a straw man?

Ultramarines may be the poster boy but by no means are any of the Primaris releases locked into Ultramarines.

Well I guess there's calgar now

Even if that was true, that's not a strawman. The word has an actual meaning and isn't just a buzzword for "something that's wrong". In fact, the only strawman fallacy here is you simplifying my statements to act like I'm talking about only Primaris stuff.

 SHUPPET wrote:


Meanwhile, the faction you referenced has been stuck with this for 20 years:

Spoiler:

I think Lucius still looks pretty cool, but those marines are atrocious by today's standards.

Still, no reason to get upset with people who like Ultramarines, it's not their fault.

 Crimson wrote:

Reemule wrote:
The only issue I have with Fists is painting Yellow makes me want to throat slap a Granny.

I really don't understand this angst about painting yellow. I don't have Imperial Fists, but my Imperial Knights and Ad Mech are yellow. Sure, yellow paints often have somewhat weak pigment (though Averland Sunset has a great coverage) but if you're painting on white or yellow primer it is really no problem at all.

Well the paints are far better these days. I remember trying to do 2nd company Ultramarines back in 2nd edition, when they had yellow trim. Not a pleasant experience.

 Trickstick wrote:

Well the paints are far better these days. I remember trying to do 2nd company Ultramarines back in 2nd edition, when they had yellow trim. Not a pleasant experience.

It wouldn't be a pleasant experience even if you succeeded painting it perfectly; that is just not a good look! (There is a reason for them using gold for the second company these days.)

 Crimson wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

Well the paints are far better these days. I remember trying to do 2nd company Ultramarines back in 2nd edition, when they had yellow trim. Not a pleasant experience.

It wouldn't be a pleasant experience even if you succeeded painting it perfectly; that is just not a good look! (There is a reason for them using gold for the second company these days.)

Yeah I eventually repainted them as 3rd company.

I'm all for toning down marine releases and I could sit pretty with what I got for decades. Granted I probably would start /complete my other armies that I only have a handful of points of. But that doesn't mean I hope EC don't get new models, I'd have to be a really terrible person to tell a group of players they can't get new stuff.

It really seems like you just have a chip on your shoulder because GW sells what will make them the most money. Besides when EC models come out they'll look great! That's the bitter sweet part of model releases.

 fraser1191 wrote:

Spoiler:

 SHUPPET wrote:

fraser1191 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Dorn is the most unlikable Primarch in the setting. I do understand the attraction to Fists though. Extremely disciplined and battle hardened warriors with a cool color scheme.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 fraser1191 wrote:
I play Ultramarines because I genuinely like them.

I'd also say that most the the hatred is really childish. For example I hate the naming structure of Space wolves, it drives me bonkers, I'm also not a huge fan of Emporers children and their fluff. But if a book comes out focusing on either of those factions I'm not gonna say "oh why is there a book coming out for Fulgrim, he's dumb" (I don't actually hate fulgrim just an example). I don't see the point in hating on someone's enjoyment of a faction

Point is paint what you like and don't be concerned with what other people say. Dakka is incredibly opinionated so I'm sure someone will tell me how Ultramarines are the worst

I wonder if you'd feel the same when the 100th EC release comes out while you are still using models from 20 years ago and like 4 novels. I got nothing against UM, but they so get an extreme amount of attention compared to other factions, and if everything was EC you'd probably be a little annoyed the next release they got.

Well I got Primaris which look really nice and since plastic won't break down in 20 years I'd be fine with it. I could probably buy a overly nice car with all those savings

Thats exactly it. You've got Primaris etc, pretty easy to sit back and act like its not a problem that you would be bothered by.

Meanwhile, the faction you referenced has been stuck with this for 20 years:




Calgar has had 4 different models in that time.

fraser1191 wrote:Isn't that also a straw man?

Ultramarines may be the poster boy but by no means are any of the Primaris releases locked into Ultramarines.

Well I guess there's calgar now

Even if that was true, that's not a strawman. The word has an actual meaning and isn't just a buzzword for "something that's wrong". In fact, the only strawman fallacy here is you simplifying my statements to act like I'm talking about only Primaris stuff.

I'm all for toning down marine releases and I could sit pretty with what I got for decades. Granted I probably would start /complete my other armies that I only have a handful of points of. But that doesn't mean I hope EC don't get new models, I'd have to be a really terrible person to tell a group of players they can't get new stuff.

It really seems like you just have a chip on your shoulder because GW sells what will make them the most money. Besides when EC models come out they'll look great! That's the bitter sweet part of model releases.

Wait I have a chip on my shoulder, even though I got nothing against Ultramarines and outright said so, but because I am explaining for you the criticism other people have, since you inaccurately broke it down into "immature hate of other someone's enjoyment of a faction"? I don't play EC dude, this is the example YOU gave, possibly stemming from some personal anecdote, so I'm explaining maybe why your hypothetical EC friend is fed up with all the Ultramarine releases and content, and why you saying "Well I don't get worked up about EC releases" isn't an equivalent at all. I didn't say anything at all about you hoping other people don't get new models. You are the one getting unnecessarily combative, and accusing me of having a chip on my shoulder, and strawman arguments (even though this is your 4th consecutive one in a row) for simply adding some perspective for you. We get it, you like Ultramarines, that doesn't mean everyone else has to mirror your opinion about how the game is developed. If anyone has a chip on their shoulder here it's you, take a step back and stop seeing everything as a personal attack on you for liking a faction.

People are just mad that their unknown founding Chapter that doesn't follow the codex and is somehow respected doesn't get as much done as the poster boys.

Yeah other Chapters being focused on would be nice (I'd like more Carcharodons stuff myself), but any hatred for them is just silly.

Now hatred for Space Wolves is totally justified as they fit the descriptor I gave earlier about some of the Chapters people like except they're First Founding.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
People are just mad that their unknown founding Chapter that doesn't follow the codex and is somehow respected doesn't get as much done as the poster boys.

Yeah other Chapters being focused on would be nice (I'd like more Carcharodons stuff myself), but any hatred for them is just silly.

Is this in response to me? What are you even talking about? None of that has anything to do with my post

After a long think after all the replays am definitely doing Ultramarines but am going to add some Crimson Fists as Allies.

Love the lore for both chapters so.

I’ve asked this before biut just wanted to check again as I’ll be buying the IF Xmas battle force. But he’s the question can I use both the chapter tactics for Ultramarines and Imperial Fists for the seprate detachments?

 Crimson wrote:
Personally I'd choose IF. They are pragmatic no-nonsense marines

Except for the weird masochism and pain amplifiers, which is extremely nonsense.

and the yellow looks really good, especially when weathered.

If done well, with good yellow paints with solid coverage. Which, generally, neither has been the case.

Ultras are boringly perfect and the their shade of blue is really unappealing.

Eh. I rarely see ultras out in the wild. I get the hate, but mostly I've seen indifference. GW loves them internally, but externally, I've met few people that have any sort of strong feeling one way or the other.

I actually like the stronger, brighter blue. It pops on the table. Crimson fist blue often comes across as muddy.

I personally think Ultramarines's are extremely cool looking, probably the coolest looking founding loyalist Legion or maybe tied with White Scars. Honorable mention to Fists. I can also respect why people like BA I just find them terribly boring.

UM's 30k range is especially gorgeous. Best power armour models released yet imo. Makes me strongly consider starting a HH army

 SHUPPET wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
People are just mad that their unknown founding Chapter that doesn't follow the codex and is somehow respected doesn't get as much done as the poster boys.

Yeah other Chapters being focused on would be nice (I'd like more Carcharodons stuff myself), but any hatred for them is just silly.

Is this in response to me? What are you even talking about? None of that has anything to do with my post

No it's a response to the topic in general.

I thought by spraying the IF with that yellow spay GW sells would do the trick then wash them and highlights. Or are the IF still difficulty to paint?

 Voltan wrote:
So I have few questions how popular are the Ultramarines on the tabletop?

They're the marine faction most often painted up by new players thanks to so much UM artwork.
And I'm sure that being able to field their primarch now days has some influence.

 Voltan wrote:
Do you see them more then any other chapter ?

In play? UM. The next IF force I see on the tabletop will be the 1st.
I think it has to do with the challenge of having to paint all that yellow & not have it turn out gakky is the primary reason. I know having painted up an Iyandan force years back that's what's deterring me....

For sale? Not counting Ebay listings, the above is completely reversed. Over the years at shops & cons & shows I've seen FAR more IF models/forces (mostly poorly painted) for sale & only a very tiny # of UM stuff.

 Voltan wrote:
Also how popular are Imperial Fists?

(shrugs) Based on the # IF armies I've seen for sale over the years someone's building/painting/playing them. Just nobody in my area.

 Voltan wrote:
And purely based on the lore which one would you choose and why?

Neither. Because I don't really care about ether groups lore. So it'd be something else that'd influence my choice. Ideally I'd say I'd base it on each chapters rules/options.
But in reality it worked out like this:

Imperial Fists - No thanks. That's a lot of yellow to get right. And I've already had that type of fun when painting up an Iyandan force. So I'll pass. Unless I come across a really well done force someone's selling cheap..... I like how they look, I just don't want to invest the effort or pay top dollar. So no IF for me.

Ultra Marines - Yes, I have an UM army. It was made as part of a local shop project for a campaign. Everyone on the Imperial side was assigned a marine company to build & paint. I drew the chit for 9th Co. UM was selected as the chapter because that's what two or three of the players already had stuff painted up for. So I built & painted UM....

 Voltan wrote:
I thought by spraying the IF with that yellow spay GW sells would do the trick then wash them and highlights. Or are the IF still difficulty to paint?

You could spray them with basically any brand of yellow paint, but I'd recommend using a yellow primer. I'm sure you could find one that's pretty close to the same color. I would not wash the entire model if you don't want to paint over the armor panels again, though. Instead I would use a wash selectively to line the panels.

Fists are probably the hardest to paint Chapter. Even Scars can just use Ulthuan.

 Crimson wrote:

Reemule wrote:
The only issue I have with Fists is painting Yellow makes me want to throat slap a Granny.

I really don't understand this angst about painting yellow. I don't have Imperial Fists, but my Imperial Knights and Ad Mech are yellow. Sure, yellow paints often have somewhat weak pigment (though Averland Sunset has a great coverage) but if you're painting on white or yellow primer it is really no problem at all.

Two thin coats!

Also the Averland Sunset spray dramatically speeds up the process. Spray yellow and then touch up other colours afterward (black etc)

I think in every gaming group I've ever been in there was at least one Ultramarine player and at least one Imperial Fist (or successor) player. Then you have the rest of the players that were all the other factions. Even if someone plays with another army, often they'll have a back-up Ultramarines army or something.

So, yeah, they're pretty popular all things considered.

You can also help with the shading by giving a a coat of yellow thinned with floor polish.

Extremely popular since they're the best chapter of the most supported army. Ultramarines are by far the most popular chapter among the ones included in the SM codex. BA, DA and SW are more popular than the other SM chapters barring UM.

The roman theme makes them look fascists and villains of the 40k universe rather than heroes.

Yellow marines are a punch in the face, so are bad moons. I think only tau can be decent to look at if painted in yellow.

Reemule wrote:Guilliman artificially boosts Ultramarine popularity.

A world with Leman, Lionel, Vulkan also on the table would see some of the Ultramarine bandwagon disperse.

Elbows wrote:Never seen Ultramarines on the table locally, but according to online presence they seem decently popular. They're the essential "vanilla" marines. However, as poster-boys they have plenty of GW support, custom characters, etc.

Imperial Fists are a secondary chapter at best, so while great looking on the table, don't expect too much in the way of special model support. You're getting an update sprue in the new Christmas battle force, but that's probably it for the foreseeable future.

I've only seen UM @ the local GW store(store army). one of my friend plays IF and another plays DA while I play Salamanders. We are the only loyalists in our local group while everybody else plays filthy xenos or treacherous astartes.

I dont hate UM, just have no interest in Guiliman(or his scions)at all.

 Blackie wrote:
Extremely popular since they're the best chapter of the most supported army. Ultramarines are by far the most popular chapter among the ones included in the SM codex. BA, DA and SW are more popular than the other SM chapters barring UM.

The roman theme makes them look fascists and villains of the 40k universe rather than heroes.

Yellow marines are a punch in the face, so are bad moons. I think only tau can be decent to look at if painted in yellow.

Yellow Nids and GSC are also a hit. So are yellow Knights.



I also don't think the Roman theme makes them look like villains or fascists at all. In fact Ultramarines are one of the brighter in tone factions in 40k, with Ultramar being one of the more ideal places to live.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Extremely popular since they're the best chapter of the most supported army. Ultramarines are by far the most popular chapter among the ones included in the SM codex. BA, DA and SW are more popular than the other SM chapters barring UM.

The roman theme makes them look fascists and villains of the 40k universe rather than heroes.

Yellow marines are a punch in the face, so are bad moons. I think only tau can be decent to look at if painted in yellow.

Yellow Nids and GSC are also a hit. So are yellow Knights.



I also don't think the Roman theme makes them look like villains or fascists at all. In fact Ultramarines are one of the brighter in tone factions in 40k, with Ultramar being one of the more ideal places to live.

That's because you didn't have a dictatorship that used the roman theme in you country just a few decades ago. Here anything related to the roman theme, unless it's strictly referred to the ancient romans period, is always auto-associated to fascism

My ideal place to live would be an ork planet Maybe also a necrons one if I was a machine.

Radikus wrote:Crimson fists. Be both at the same time!

My inner Captain Cortez is SEETHING at that comment...

Stux wrote:I'll second Crimson Fists as a compromise, you don't see a huge amount of them as they're not an original Chapter but they're generally viewed pretty positively in the community.

Check your history. During the early days of Rogue Trader, they were. They were also the most prevalently painted Chapter in the rulebook.

What's baffling about the popularity is that when it comes to aesthetics, the Ultramarines are completely and utterly plain. You could go nuts with the roman elements, as numerous stellar conversions have. But the base options you get are plain and dull normal armor with some laurels, centurion-esque plumes, and boarding shields in the horus heresy similar to scutum.

It's just sad when you know of the full scope of pleasing aesthetics the Roman world has to offer to fiction, and other chapters have a lot more flair to them. Black Templars, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Iron Hands, Iron Snakes, Minotaurs, etc all look far more striking than the Ultramarines.