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2018/12/03 15:02:38
Subject: Re:Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
There is no implied warranty for the product. You're just making an excuse to justify your actions. The book still "works" as is.
I sure that if the text in the books are heavily changed it does not work any longer, specially if the changes are in another string of books you have to pay for.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2018/12/03 15:03:59
Subject: Re:Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
There is no implied warranty for the product. You're just making an excuse to justify your actions. The book still "works" as is.
I sure that if the text in the books are heavily changed it does not work any longer, specially if the changes are in another string of books you have to pay for.
You're talking about points. Updated points are not required to use the book. None of the new rules are required to use the book. In fact you could purchase all the books as they are currently, move to Antarctica, and still be able to play Warhammer. Amazing, isn't it?
2018/12/03 15:12:52
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
drbored wrote: That would mean GW would have to spend extra money in distributing the digital copies. It'd be super nice for customer relations but it makes zero sense for their business.
What extra money? It wouldnt cost much vs printing and physcial distribution costs.
Kid comes into GW store, staff tell them to download it on the spot (provide free wifi to do so).
I suspect they make decent revenue from selling Codex to new comers. Would also make pirate copies more prevalent.
y'all don't understand how websites and digital distribution work.
Every click to your website costs bandwidth. Every upload takes an extra expensive piece of bandwidth (cheaper to download than to upload). Then you've gotta pay people to keep all the files in order. Yeah, they do a lot of that already through their websites, but we're talking an additional service in order to exchange a code that comes in your Codex for a digital download. That costs money too. And then you have to consider that people are coming to your website not to buy anything, but just to download something. That means you're paying for all that bandwidth without getting anything in return. Not only that, when a Codex drops, there's likely to be a jump in users on your website during the first few days, all just to download a file.
It may not be a lot of money, it may seem super simple to you, but it's a more complicated issue than you realize and why would GW bother when they can make money by selling you the physical copy and then selling you the digital one separately?
That entire cost can be deferred by a pennies increase in model sales. Models that would more likely be bought because consumers aren't sinking it into the books, and the company isn't sinking into producing dead tree copies (that are already in flux before they hit the street - ask BCB ).
Besides, there's ALREADY a bunch of PDFs on GW's web site as is, they're already hosting it now. The only change would be the price point they're currently charging. They can either frontload the cost at the book level, or defer the costs to the models on the back end.
That's not quite correct.
There are costs built into digital distribution models that are not apparent to the end user. While it's likely cheaper for GW to publish digitally, that's not the same as 'free' or 'no-additional-cost.'
On the one hand, GW uses Apple and DRM for distributing some content. There's expenses built into hosting, licensing, and distributing the content across devices. Apple keeps part of every purchase, and I believe they keep the same amount if the publisher starts to give away free copies.
On the other hand, GW distributes content all across the Earth. IANAL, but copyright is tricky when it comes to giving away things for free. If they are giving away something in one locality, that can be used to challenge the basis of the IP in another.
I think people get this idea in their head that publishing a digital copy of something is simply a matter of pushing the button to create a PDF. It's not always a lot more complex, but it's not cheap.
So for me, digital and free would be best. So far that hasn't been hard to do.
Straight free digital would be a viable option, too. It costs the company, but it could be fairly trivial compared to the incremental business they'd likely get.
2018/12/03 15:38:06
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
When I talk to people who play 40K, they want to support the company. They don't mind spending the money, even the ones with loads of 3d prints, recasts, and pirated copies of the the works.
They do want to have it at a price option that makes sense to them.
I don't know why GW understands that on some levels and not others. Like they offer the collector editions of some books, but they don't offer the lower cost options.
If you offered a Bare bones just rules option.. that is the one for me. A full color copy in digital might be for someone else, and a dead tree printed is for another, and a full on numbered collector is for another.
Offer the options and I think that they would get more sales.
2018/12/03 15:41:02
Subject: Re:Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
)I'd be curious as to how much GW actually makes on hard copy Codex's (not CE's, theres alway money to be made from the more money than sense crowd
Obviously as one of the big fish in the gaming pond they have more resources available but a couple of other games I play have gone largely digital and free rules, not sure if that's a hint that physical media is not too profitable or a choice by small firms
At the mo I suspect the answer is just enough that going more digital would be a gamble and incur set up / upgrade costs
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/03 15:41:46
"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED."
2018/12/03 15:43:24
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
For a "model company" they sure go to extreme lenghts to milk us for the rules. Well, just another case of what GW says being vastly different than what GW does, along with the myth that kids are their core market.
If I were GW I would go full free digital for rules and publish lavish collector art and fluff books in paper.
Given that it's trivial to find a pirated digital copy of any GW book on release day, they wouldn't be losing much.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/03 15:44:43
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
2018/12/03 15:44:54
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
I'd rather there be a quick access sheets or digital version quick access sheets. I'd pay for that... or an app which contains them and does something like battlescribe, but more up to date and the bible of rules.
I was playing Kill Team and had to go back and forth between different rules and pages again an again and it got old fast. I don't care about the fluff when playing a game and just want the rules listed out in a clear fashion that's easy to reference.
That can be digital or physical... but at least with physical you can have multiple pages out on the table top at once.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/03 15:47:11
2018/12/03 15:55:38
Subject: Re:Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
Techpriestsupport wrote: Well I'm just not going to pay GW to fix something in a product I've already paid for, so what am I supposed to do?
There is no implied warranty for the product. You're just making an excuse to justify your actions. The book still "works" as is.
To be fair, many of these books don't "work" anymore after a Chapter Approved, as you can't participate in tournaments using the information contained within them.
But on the other hand, I don't see Chapter Approved as a mandatory purchase unless you're interesting in the expansion content (for example, I've got a preorder in for the LE to get the Sisters cards), because the point changes are available through crowdsourcing.
2018/12/03 17:10:09
Subject: Re:Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
Techpriestsupport wrote: Well I'm just not going to pay GW to fix something in a product I've already paid for, so what am I supposed to do?
There is no implied warranty for the product. You're just making an excuse to justify your actions. The book still "works" as is.
To be fair, many of these books don't "work" anymore after a Chapter Approved, as you can't participate in tournaments using the information contained within them.
But on the other hand, I don't see Chapter Approved as a mandatory purchase unless you're interesting in the expansion content (for example, I've got a preorder in for the LE to get the Sisters cards), because the point changes are available through crowdsourcing.
Right. they don't work for tournament matched play, but they still work.
Aside from that complaining that CA breaks your book is cutting your nose to spite your face if you ever want to have a living rule set with balance.
2018/12/03 17:23:28
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
PDF is the way to go. Point values got updated on my SM codex after the last CA came out, and I assume the same will happen again. Personally, I think GW needs to move its 40k digital offering closer to what they have for AOS. Make an app that you can access all the data cards on, and people can just buy which ones they want. Hell, battletomes are cheaper on the app than what we would pay on the Apple Store, so it's not a bad idea to go that route.
Blows my mind when people try to justify downloading copies of stuff for free. You are stealing, and it doesn't matter how you try to justify it. Just own up to it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/03 17:24:03
No Pity! No Remorse! No fear!
2018/12/03 18:19:58
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
There are costs built into digital distribution models that are not apparent to the end user. While it's likely cheaper for GW to publish digitally, that's not the same as 'free' or 'no-additional-cost.'
On the one hand, GW uses Apple and DRM for distributing some content. There's expenses built into hosting, licensing, and distributing the content across devices. Apple keeps part of every purchase, and I believe they keep the same amount if the publisher starts to give away free copies.
On the other hand, GW distributes content all across the Earth. IANAL, but copyright is tricky when it comes to giving away things for free. If they are giving away something in one locality, that can be used to challenge the basis of the IP in another.
I think people get this idea in their head that publishing a digital copy of something is simply a matter of pushing the button to create a PDF. It's not always a lot more complex, but it's not cheap.
But they wouldn't give anything for free as you would pay for the book & the pdf (even if the book's price doesn't change, it's still a bundle and you pay for both). It's just a matter of printing a code inside the codex. Then people create an account on https://www.warhammerdigital.com if they don't already have one, insert their code to add the book to their library and then they are free to download a pdf/epub when ever they want. There, no copyright issue, no Apple, nothing.
The only issues are : they might lack the process needed to use codes to redeem a book. And that website traffic will increase.
Those aren't insurmountable issues though.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/12/03 18:26:09
2018/12/03 18:32:38
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
There are costs built into digital distribution models that are not apparent to the end user. While it's likely cheaper for GW to publish digitally, that's not the same as 'free' or 'no-additional-cost.'
On the one hand, GW uses Apple and DRM for distributing some content. There's expenses built into hosting, licensing, and distributing the content across devices. Apple keeps part of every purchase, and I believe they keep the same amount if the publisher starts to give away free copies.
On the other hand, GW distributes content all across the Earth. IANAL, but copyright is tricky when it comes to giving away things for free. If they are giving away something in one locality, that can be used to challenge the basis of the IP in another.
I think people get this idea in their head that publishing a digital copy of something is simply a matter of pushing the button to create a PDF. It's not always a lot more complex, but it's not cheap.
But they wouldn't give anything for free as you would pay for the book & the pdf (even if the book's price doesn't change, it's still a bundle and you pay for both). It's just a matter of printing a code inside the codex. Then people create an account on https://www.warhammerdigital.com if they don't already have one, insert their code to add the book to their library and then they are free to download a pdf/epub when ever they want. There, no copyright issue, no Apple, nothing.
The only issues are : they might lack the process needed to use codes to redeem a book. And that website traffic will increase.
Those aren't insurmountable issues though.
I'm sure it looks that simple from the outside, but my experience has been that you can't sell a product worldwide, give it away for free somewhere and expect to maintain the intellectual property associated with it.
Not saying it's a good model, just that it's the most likely reason why GW doesn't do this. I am certain they could find a way to do so, which would likely require them to either stop selling digital copies or physical copies.
So it's not exactly a win-win from anyone's perspective.
Blows my mind when people try to justify downloading copies of stuff for free. You are stealing, and it doesn't matter how you try to justify it. Just own up to it.
Yes Sir! and all you Speeders line up over there, and Jaywalkers over there, and the kids that Stole candy bars over there, and "you smoked what? New line behind this guy"
I'm trivializing your statement cause its shows a inability to see all sides of the issue.
2018/12/03 20:07:23
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
Crimson Devil wrote: It's funny how the label offends people more than the action.
Have an exalt good sir
"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.
To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle
5300 | 2800 | 3600 | 1600 |
2018/12/04 02:04:59
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
drbored wrote: That would mean GW would have to spend extra money in distributing the digital copies. It'd be super nice for customer relations but it makes zero sense for their business.
No, that's not even the main problem. The thing people ignore with digital copies is the fact they still need to be typeset, proofread, edited, literally every single thing you do with normal book besides printing, but then you have another problem, checking the book on 50 most popular reader/device combos and looking for bugs and errors (which will still catch very small % of them and you'll have some armchair geniuses whining about GW's "laziness" because everything is not perfect out of the box). All of this can be expensive, time consuming, thankless process that costs money. Who exactly is going to pay for this?
Techpriestsupport wrote: See, if I buy a product I expect it to perform as advertised. So if I buy codex space marines and codex heretic space marines (which i did) I have every right to expect them to Function as advertised, to let me to build and run a marine army.
That's like arguing the seller should buy you fuel, oil, and tires, because you bought fueled car and after you used it a bit it ran out and is "defective" now
Did you seriously argued it no longer "performs as advertised" because you need to buy optional extra after a year without which it's still perfectly serviceable and works everywhere besides a tourney? Let me guess, winter tires or cold resistant radiator fluid are scam, then, and invite to stealing from dealership, because it's no longer summer and the car performs suboptimally now?
lord_blackfang wrote: As defined by laws laid down by the rich and powerful. You will notice that, by and large, it's legal for the rich to take wealth from the poor, and illegal to do the reverse. You would do well not to equate laws with objective morality.
I am sorry, but that's just bollocks
I am probably one of the least rich friendly people on this site, but accusing company that still produces in UK, pays actual, livable wages to its workers on 24/7 jobs, instead of scam, trash work deals not worth the paper it's written on, does not outsource everything to china to save a quick buck, ran by fans like us (ex-leadership practices notwithstanding), of being 1% leech just because they dare to charge more for their work than recasters and pirates from third world countries is just, well...
If you want to justify theft, fine, go ahead, but GW wouldn't even fit on top 100 of economy branches where one could argue it's in any way morally justified to do so, never mind the whole bit of economy sitting above that where you could argue depriving them of ill-gained goods is the right thing to do, so please, find better excuse and/or better target.
2018/12/04 02:22:02
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
Crimson Devil wrote: Some RPG companies will send you a pdf of their games you buy the physical copy of.
Most people who are going to steal will do it anyway. This would just save them the journey of tortured logic to get to the how GW makes them a victim so it's okay to steal.
Sorry but I don't consider downloading pirate pdfs stealing in all cases. While you may righteously condemn those who disagree it doesn't bother me.
See, if I buy a product I expect it to perform as advertised. So if I buy codex space marines and codex heretic space marines (which i did) I have every right to expect them to Function as advertised, to let me to build and run a marine army.
If gw later decides the codexes are wrong and change points values I have every right to expect the correct values to be made available to me so I can use my codexes which I have paid for. If they we gong to change a published book peolle have bought the people who bought it are entitled to have a usable probuct since they've paid for it.
Now if gw decides to change the points values and make the products I paid for invalid then charge me to make them valid again, I say "Xxxx you. " I am not paying gw another 30 or more $ to buy the fix for a product I've paid for and they then decided was invalid.
If changes to printed material are made gw has an obligation to make those changes available to the buyers whose money they have taken. If they instead decide to make peopel pay for he fixes to the products they've paid for then those peolle are right to refuse to and get those fixes without giving gw another cent.
If you buy a car and later it turns out to be defective as it left the maker, do you think you should pay to make it right or should the carmaker?
If gw wants to sell chapter approved it should be 100% new optional expansion material, not necessary changes to products peolle have realdey paid for and are now being told to pay for fixes to.
You can handwave any critical response your opinion receives with this, but it won't make it any less wrong
Daedalus81 wrote: Before we derail too far into piracy land consider these options:
Buy Digital - $30
Buy Physical and get free Digital - $50
- The Digital Only customer feels slighted, right? How do you make them happy?
- Obviously many digital customers will spring for Physical & Digital for only $20 more. While this sounds great it means GW prints more books (more expensive) and loses revenue overall.
It's not simple to "just give digital for free" even if I would prefer that. A voucher for half off digital is the best one could hope for.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Techpriestsupport wrote: Well I'm just not going to pay GW to fix something in a product I've already paid for, so what am I supposed to do?
There is no implied warranty for the product. You're just making an excuse to justify your actions. The book still "works" as is.
My issue is I don't value rulebooks very much, and I don't value them at all after they are obsolete.
And I'm not a person that values Artbooks very much.
And then add that I don't value physical copies of books at all. Save a tree, and all that.
So for me, digital and free would be best. So far that hasn't been hard to do.
I would buy pdfs if they we're reasonably priced. Sadly life touting is so integral to gw's corporate DNA they are physically unable to sell pdfs or simply complete fluff and art free rules pdfs at reasonable prices.
Crimson Devil wrote: Some RPG companies will send you a pdf of their games you buy the physical copy of.
Most people who are going to steal will do it anyway. This would just save them the journey of tortured logic to get to the how GW makes them a victim so it's okay to steal.
Sorry but I don't consider downloading pirate pdfs stealing in all cases. While you may righteously condemn those who disagree it doesn't bother me.
See, if I buy a product I expect it to perform as advertised. So if I buy codex space marines and codex heretic space marines (which i did) I have every right to expect them to Function as advertised, to let me to build and run a marine army.
If gw later decides the codexes are wrong and change points values I have every right to expect the correct values to be made available to me so I can use my codexes which I have paid for. If they we gong to change a published book peolle have bought the people who bought it are entitled to have a usable probuct since they've paid for it.
Now if gw decides to change the points values and make the products I paid for invalid then charge me to make them valid again, I say "Xxxx you. " I am not paying gw another 30 or more $ to buy the fix for a product I've paid for and they then decided was invalid.
If changes to printed material are made gw has an obligation to make those changes available to the buyers whose money they have taken. If they instead decide to make peopel pay for he fixes to the products they've paid for then those peolle are right to refuse to and get those fixes without giving gw another cent.
If you buy a car and later it turns out to be defective as it left the maker, do you think you should pay to make it right or should the carmaker?
If gw wants to sell chapter approved it should be 100% new optional expansion material, not necessary changes to products peolle have realdey paid for and are now being told to pay for fixes to.
You can handwave any critical response your opinion receives with this, but it won't make it any less wrong
drbored wrote: That would mean GW would have to spend extra money in distributing the digital copies. It'd be super nice for customer relations but it makes zero sense for their business.
No, that's not even the main problem. The thing people ignore with digital copies is the fact they still need to be typeset, proofread, edited, literally every single thing you do with normal book besides printing, but then you have another problem, checking the book on 50 most popular reader/device combos and looking for bugs and errors (which will still catch very small % of them and you'll have some armchair geniuses whining about GW's "laziness" because everything is not perfect out of the box). All of this can be expensive, time consuming, thankless process that costs money. Who exactly is going to pay for this?
Techpriestsupport wrote: See, if I buy a product I expect it to perform as advertised. So if I buy codex space marines and codex heretic space marines (which i did) I have every right to expect them to Function as advertised, to let me to build and run a marine army.
That's like arguing the seller should buy you fuel, oil, and tires, because you bought fueled car and after you used it a bit it ran out and is "defective" now
Did you seriously argued it no longer "performs as advertised" because you need to buy optional extra after a year without which it's still perfectly serviceable and works everywhere besides a tourney? Let me guess, winter tires or cold resistant radiator fluid are scam, then, and invite to stealing from dealership, because it's no longer summer and the car performs suboptimally now?
lord_blackfang wrote: As defined by laws laid down by the rich and powerful. You will notice that, by and large, it's legal for the rich to take wealth from the poor, and illegal to do the reverse. You would do well not to equate laws with objective morality.
I am sorry, but that's just bollocks
I am probably one of the least rich friendly people on this site, but accusing company that still produces in UK, pays actual, livable wages to its workers on 24/7 jobs, instead of scam, trash work deals not worth the paper it's written on, does not outsource everything to china to save a quick buck, ran by fans like us (ex-leadership practices notwithstanding), of being 1% leech just because they dare to charge more for their work than recasters and pirates from third world countries is just, well...
If you want to justify theft, fine, go ahead, but GW wouldn't even fit on top 100 of economy branches where one could argue it's in any way morally justified to do so, never mind the whole bit of economy sitting above that where you could argue depriving them of ill-gained goods is the right thing to do, so please, find better excuse and/or better target.
You know you just raised some valid points here. Your citing the fact that gw uses English labor instead of Chinese slave labor or asian child labor sweat show resonated deeply in me. As a result of your post I will likely buy a copy of CA this year. If that makes you feel good, you deserve it.
The above post is certified 100% snark and sarcasm free and completely honest and sincere.
EDIT: I just looked at the backs of my codexes for marines and CSM. Both were printed in China. The above statement is hereby rescinded. I will however spend the Sam amour on another mini box so don't try guilt tripping me on how i'm killing gw.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2018/12/04 03:47:20
"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." Jesse "the mind" Ventura.
2018/12/04 03:32:49
Subject: Re:Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
For the record I often download codexes for research purposes.
Arrrgh, shiver me timbers
"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.
To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle
5300 | 2800 | 3600 | 1600 |
2018/12/04 03:42:39
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
If I tried to enter e tournament without adjusting my army to the corrections in CA it would be disallowed and I would be unable to enter. As such the corrections render my codex inoperable.
And I am no linger arguing with corporate apologists who cannot believe a business can do anything wrong.
"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." Jesse "the mind" Ventura.
2018/12/04 03:48:25
Subject: Re:Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
The length of time for which it is reasonable for the product to be used is a relevant factor, and will be relevant here.
Having $170 worth of competitive play rules in a book, only last a matter of months before expiring, is going to be grounds for a refund here. Most people would rather keep their books though, it's not like you don't still need them to play, you just need other gak on top of it. The logistics of fixing paperback books are on them, as if every physical copy came with a digital editions and was kept updated, it's more than possible to avoid. It's on them, as it stands I'll invoke consumer law if ever I want a refund.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/04 03:50:12
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2018/12/04 03:52:41
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
Techpriestsupport wrote: If I tried to enter e tournament without adjusting my army to the corrections in CA it would be disallowed and I would be unable to enter. As such the corrections render my codex inoperable.
And I am no linger arguing with corporate apologists who cannot believe a business can do anything wrong.
Render your codex inoperable?
GW most definitely can do wrong, they have in the past, present and by the gods, most likely in the future as well. You're acting like GW have come over to your house and thrown your codex into the fire.
"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.
To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle
5300 | 2800 | 3600 | 1600 |
2018/12/04 03:53:54
Subject: Re:Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
The length of time for which it is reasonable for the product to be used is a relevant factor, and will be relevant here.
Having $170 worth of competitive play rules in a book, only last a matter of months before expiring, is going to be grounds for a refund here. Most people would rather keep their books though, it's not like you don't still need them to play, you just need other gak on top of it. The logistics of fixing paperback books are on them, as if every physical copy came with a digital editions and was kept updated, it's more than possible to avoid. It's on them, as it stands I'll invoke consumer law if ever I want a refund.
"it has a problem that would have stopped someone from buying it if they’d known about it"
So you'd have to prove you didn't know about Chapter Approved before purchasing this book, which might be slightly difficult since GW made that very public early on and it was out before many of the books are now.
Regardless I agree about making points free.
2018/12/04 04:05:59
Subject: Re:Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
The length of time for which it is reasonable for the product to be used is a relevant factor, and will be relevant here.
Having $170 worth of competitive play rules in a book, only last a matter of months before expiring, is going to be grounds for a refund here. Most people would rather keep their books though, it's not like you don't still need them to play, you just need other gak on top of it. The logistics of fixing paperback books are on them, as if every physical copy came with a digital editions and was kept updated, it's more than possible to avoid. It's on them, as it stands I'll invoke consumer law if ever I want a refund.
"it has a problem that would have stopped someone from buying it if they’d known about it"
So you'd have to prove you didn't know about Chapter Approved before purchasing this book, which might be slightly difficult since GW made that very public early on and it was out before many of the books are now.
Regardless I agree about making points free.
That's one condition. There are multiple. You don't have fill all of them, just one of them. Also, unless that disclaimer about upcoming Changes rendering the book prone to expiring and no longer being the currently played ruleset, is attached to the product on their store, the onus is on them to prove you knew it, not the other way around, as it is their responsibility to make sure you are aware of this as a customer. And for obvious reasons that will be nigh impossible for them to prove.
Australia's consumer laws are really good. You can basically push through a refund on anything even remotely shady at all. It's basically the reason Steam had to add refunds to the steam store.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/04 04:06:10
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2018/12/04 04:26:42
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
Crimson Devil wrote: Some RPG companies will send you a pdf of their games you buy the physical copy of.
Most people who are going to steal will do it anyway. This would just save them the journey of tortured logic to get to the how GW makes them a victim so it's okay to steal.
Sorry but I don't consider downloading pirate pdfs stealing in all cases. While you may righteously condemn those who disagree it doesn't bother me.
See, if I buy a product I expect it to perform as advertised. So if I buy codex space marines and codex heretic space marines (which i did) I have every right to expect them to Function as advertised, to let me to build and run a marine army.
If gw later decides the codexes are wrong and change points values I have every right to expect the correct values to be made available to me so I can use my codexes which I have paid for. If they we gong to change a published book peolle have bought the people who bought it are entitled to have a usable probuct since they've paid for it.
Now if gw decides to change the points values and make the products I paid for invalid then charge me to make them valid again, I say "Xxxx you. " I am not paying gw another 30 or more $ to buy the fix for a product I've paid for and they then decided was invalid.
If changes to printed material are made gw has an obligation to make those changes available to the buyers whose money they have taken. If they instead decide to make peopel pay for he fixes to the products they've paid for then those peolle are right to refuse to and get those fixes without giving gw another cent.
If you buy a car and later it turns out to be defective as it left the maker, do you think you should pay to make it right or should the carmaker?
If gw wants to sell chapter approved it should be 100% new optional expansion material, not necessary changes to products peolle have realdey paid for and are now being told to pay for fixes to.
You can handwave any critical response your opinion receives with this, but it won't make it any less wrong.
Techpriest's response is simply an example of the tortured logic I sited in my original post. Everybody wants to be the victim so they can do the stuff they were going to do anyway, but remain the "hero" in their own story. It's about lying to yourself. You can justify anything when you tell yourself "they deserved it"
Automatically Appended Next Post: Why does the formatting work in the preview window, but not the regular thread?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/12/04 04:30:48
2018/12/04 05:48:23
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
I'm not sure what's going on with the formatting there. But.
Theft isn't piracy. Both are still illegal in a lot of places. Just pointing out that pirating something doesn't make someone a thief. It makes them a digital pirate. The terms have meaning, and pirating isn't just a nickname for "digital theft", it's a legal term for the crime being committed as is theft. Theft can also be committed digitally. But that's not what you are talking about here. It's important to separate the two. Calling piracy "theft" or using the terms interchangeably, is always factually incorrect.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/04 05:51:53
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2018/12/04 06:05:36
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." Jesse "the mind" Ventura.
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