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Most of the CA rumors on the Xenos side have focused on buffing Necrons and nerfing some Eldar units like shining spears. Do Tau need a boost? What units are too expensive?

Crisis suits. Boom, there's the be all and end all of tau that desperately desperately need a points drop.

Seems The Eight are also getting rules in CA... hopefully for matched play as well.

If Landraiders are getting a points drop, do Riptides deserve one as well?

Riptides are one of the best units in the T'au Codex. There are units besides Crisis Suits that need point drops, but Riptides arn't one of them.

They're probably just looking for minor stuff. Points cost drops on overpriced units like Crisis suits, Devilfish, maybe Ghostkeels, Hammerhead railguns, etc.

Tau are pretty good right now and the biggest thing for them will be other armies changing/improving with Chapter Approved.

Tau need another Reece nerf bat!

Tau are a plenty viable army - they're arguably the best army that can't soup. They have some units that need to be brought up like crisis suits but they definitely don't require the complete overhaul Necrons do.

Tau units are mostly costed well with some exceptions like gun drones and crisis suits. It is the weapons that are horribly overcosted or under performing for the most part. In particular railguns, missile pods, and plasma stand out. Plasma being terribad is going to be one of the main reasons besides terrible sept bonus that The Eight are going to be horrendously awful.

The entire rail lineup is pathetic and needs rework.

Crisis suits are useless.

Several systems are redundant, pointless or simply overpriced as hell.

Also, while the codex can produce some decent lists, it's pretty much a monolist with most units taking a backseat.

The silly commander system isn't helping as it rendered pretty much any character non viable as the can't really compete with coldstars ever.

 DominayTrix wrote:
Tau units are mostly costed well with some exceptions like gun drones and crisis suits. It is the weapons that are horribly overcosted or under performing for the most part. In particular railguns, missile pods, and plasma stand out. Plasma being terribad is going to be one of the main reasons besides terrible sept bonus that The Eight are going to be horrendously awful.

Pretty good chance that The Eight are getting kustomised dakka like Farsight with his souped-up Plasma Rifle. Also, didn't one of those guys/gals pilot a Riptide? Pretty curious about that one

Pandabeer wrote:

 DominayTrix wrote:
Tau units are mostly costed well with some exceptions like gun drones and crisis suits. It is the weapons that are horribly overcosted or under performing for the most part. In particular railguns, missile pods, and plasma stand out. Plasma being terribad is going to be one of the main reasons besides terrible sept bonus that The Eight are going to be horrendously awful.

Pretty good chance that The Eight are getting kustomised dakka like Farsight with his souped-up Plasma Rifle. Also, didn't one of those guys/gals pilot a Riptide? Pretty curious about that one

Yes one is a riptide and one is a broadside.

In 7e, every single member of the 8 could be made using normal unit rules, the only exception was that they could all be in a squad together. No unique wargear, or even unique combinations. But this was the edition where characters could join units, so I'm not expecting that.

 Stux wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

 DominayTrix wrote:
Tau units are mostly costed well with some exceptions like gun drones and crisis suits. It is the weapons that are horribly overcosted or under performing for the most part. In particular railguns, missile pods, and plasma stand out. Plasma being terribad is going to be one of the main reasons besides terrible sept bonus that The Eight are going to be horrendously awful.

Pretty good chance that The Eight are getting kustomised dakka like Farsight with his souped-up Plasma Rifle. Also, didn't one of those guys/gals pilot a Riptide? Pretty curious about that one

Yes one is a riptide and one is a broadside.

In 7e, every single member of the 8 could be made using normal unit rules, the only exception was that they could all be in a squad together. No unique wargear, or even unique combinations. But this was the edition where characters could join units, so I'm not expecting that.

It will be interesting to see if they are matched play or narrative play only. To be honest they aren't realy that great in 8th at the moment but it would be interesting if they become HQ's or just charictors in their respective slots.
Personally I think an HQ riptide could be funny given how somepeople claim they are totally OP.

Depends really.

I'd say Fire Warriors (with a Fire blade) and Riptides are "good". Then you move into the "okay" and quickly fall into the decidedly mediocre. Crisis suits are the obvious "lol no" unit - but really its hard to justify breachers, kroot, stealthsuits, ghostkeels, the flyers are bad, the devilfish is too expensive, the skyray is lacklustre, railheads are a nope etc etc.

People seem to love Coldstars but I am not totally convinced. I feel they are bully units. In games you know you or your Tau-playing opponent are going to win they are often MVP. When up against it however they can under perform. I guess the argument is "if you are taking a commander (you are), and you are not going to max out on ion blasters (which isn't bad imo), why wouldn't you pay a small sum of points for the massive movement upgrade?" Which to be fair I don't have much of answer too - but still. Its not Eldar tier good.

Riptides by contrast are good - although only when overcharged. Which is fine because you will always do so - one mortal wound isn't much - and with the stratagem you can have a 3++ too. But base (which matters if you are bringing 2 or 3) its T7, 2+/5++ which isn't all that survivable for around 20 points/wound. I mean if your opponent can kill a knight, they can kill tides.

So you probably want to bodyguard them with drones - which can feel broken in casual games, but is often not that great in competitive games unless there is some convenient LoS terrain to hide them behind or your opponent weirdly doesn't have the ability to efficiently kill drones.

There is also a bit of a cost issue. As said the Riptides do good damage for 280~ points. It starts to move towards average if you are also bringing along 4-5 drones per tide, raising that cost towards 320-330 ish for the same damage output. Sure drones are not totally useless aside from eating bullets - but they are not contributing much.

Not to upset people or set rabbits running - but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Fire Warriors went to 8 points (the elegant thing would be making the rifle 1 point and leaving the never seen carbine fire warriors at 7 points to potentially create a strategic differential). If so it would be nice if they looked at almost all the other options mentioned above. As someone said, a lot of the issue is in the weapon costs. On BS4+ platforms base, its not really obvious why burst cannons, fusion blasters and so on should be pointed as they are. Especially if SM (and perhaps everyone else) are seeing noticeable reductions. Commanders should continue to pay current prices but the rest could do with some cuts.

They already stated that the Eight will get rules for matched play as well.

Or the Eight. When Codex: T’au Empire was released, we had loads of fans ask about fielding Commander Farsight’s elite bodyguard – so, in this year’s Chapter Approved, we’ll be bringing these iconic heroes to life in style. You’ll find a host of new datasheets for using this gathering of Fire caste legends in your games, including matched play.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/02/2nd-nov-the-blood-glory-studio-preview-roundup-extravaganzagw-homepage-post-1/

Nice, hopefully they get good rules.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
They already stated that the Eight will get rules for matched play as well.

Or the Eight. When Codex: T’au Empire was released, we had loads of fans ask about fielding Commander Farsight’s elite bodyguard – so, in this year’s Chapter Approved, we’ll be bringing these iconic heroes to life in style. You’ll find a host of new datasheets for using this gathering of Fire caste legends in your games, including matched play.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/02/2nd-nov-the-blood-glory-studio-preview-roundup-extravaganzagw-homepage-post-1/

Will be useless if they don't fix the issue that you can't play a proper FSE battalion right now due to the commander limit, the fact they can't play ethreals, and that fireblade are the opposite of the FSE tactics (who are poor to begin with)

The biggest questions about the eight is what are they going to do with all the gear that they used to have that turned into stratagems, and if any of them will actually worth taking as they got rather random loadouts the make even R'myr blush.

Breachers need to be significantly cheaper than Fire Warriors to ever consider them (add points to the regular Rifle, so we can also have Carbine FW's)

Crisis suits need a drop, as mentioned.

Anythng "rail" sucks

I'd like a reason to take pathfinders over marker drones

kroot stuff needs a buff

My ideal points shifts would be:

Pulse Rifle +1pt
Breacher -1pt
Pathfinder special weapons/toys drastically cheaper (rather than buffing pathfinders, make them more than a ML bot unit)
Riptide up, with a significant part of the nerf in the HBC
Hammerhead down, significan part in the Railgun
Broadside railgun down
crisis suits down
Coldstar up/new "Character" price for fusions like we have with Storm shields
krootox down
Sniper drones down

Breachers need to be significantly cheaper than Fire Warriors to ever consider them (add points to the regular Rifle, so we can also have Carbine FW's)

I have a friend who's very invested in Mont'ka and would very much disagree there.


Why would you take pathfinders over markerlights? BS4. Now, Drones can get BS4 but that's a drone controller you have to buy, but generally I prefer pathfinders due to not having to worry about BS5.

Either way, Firesight marksmen and Fireblades are better than both imo, there's usually no point in anything else.

the_scotsman wrote:
Breachers need to be significantly cheaper than Fire Warriors to ever consider them (add points to the regular Rifle, so we can also have Carbine FW's)

Crisis suits need a drop, as mentioned.

Anythng "rail" sucks

I'd like a reason to take pathfinders over marker drones

kroot stuff needs a buff

My ideal points shifts would be:

Pulse Rifle +1pt
Breacher -1pt
Pathfinder special weapons/toys drastically cheaper (rather than buffing pathfinders, make them more than a ML bot unit)
Riptide up, with a significant part of the nerf in the HBC
Hammerhead down, significan part in the Railgun
Broadside railgun down
crisis suits down
Coldstar up/new "Character" price for fusions like we have with Storm shields
krootox down
Sniper drones down

A number of those changes would just turn Tau into an also attended codex.
Riptides can't get more expensive or we just go back to index Tau without the ability to be able to take multiple commanders, ie competitively non viable.
Nothing in the Tau arsenal is particularly OP, they need internal balance work I won't argue with that but nerfing the auto pick units just because they don't suck isn't helping.
Also the number of units that are only effective with multiple strategums and other bonus stacked on them is frankly rediculous.
A Tau list without CP or strategums plays on a totally different power level than with them

Ice_can wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Breachers need to be significantly cheaper than Fire Warriors to ever consider them (add points to the regular Rifle, so we can also have Carbine FW's)

Crisis suits need a drop, as mentioned.

Anythng "rail" sucks

I'd like a reason to take pathfinders over marker drones

kroot stuff needs a buff

My ideal points shifts would be:

Pulse Rifle +1pt
Breacher -1pt
Pathfinder special weapons/toys drastically cheaper (rather than buffing pathfinders, make them more than a ML bot unit)
Riptide up, with a significant part of the nerf in the HBC
Hammerhead down, significan part in the Railgun
Broadside railgun down
crisis suits down
Coldstar up/new "Character" price for fusions like we have with Storm shields
krootox down
Sniper drones down

A number of those changes would just turn Tau into an also attended codex.
Riptides can't get more expensive or we just go back to index Tau without the ability to be able to take multiple commanders, ie competitively non viable.
Nothing in the Tau arsenal is particularly OP, they need internal balance work I won't argue with that but nerfing the auto pick units just because they don't suck isn't helping.
Also the number of units that are only effective with multiple strategums and other bonus stacked on them is frankly rediculous.
A Tau list without CP or strategums plays on a totally different power level than with them

I think you'll find that that statement is pretty much true for every codex....luckily, everyone has CP and stratagems.

When a faction is seen relatively frequently in competitive play as a major contender, it doesn't make sense to buff poor units without taking a look at what's already winning them tournaments. It is rather clear to me that part of the reason BS4+ crisis suits are currently uncompetitive is because they share their weapon prices with models that move 60", BS2+ and character protections.

 BoomWolf wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
They already stated that the Eight will get rules for matched play as well.

Or the Eight. When Codex: T’au Empire was released, we had loads of fans ask about fielding Commander Farsight’s elite bodyguard – so, in this year’s Chapter Approved, we’ll be bringing these iconic heroes to life in style. You’ll find a host of new datasheets for using this gathering of Fire caste legends in your games, including matched play.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/02/2nd-nov-the-blood-glory-studio-preview-roundup-extravaganzagw-homepage-post-1/

Will be useless if they don't fix the issue that you can't play a proper FSE battalion right now due to the commander limit, the fact they can't play ethreals, and that fireblade are the opposite of the FSE tactics (who are poor to begin with)

The biggest questions about the eight is what are they going to do with all the gear that they used to have that turned into stratagems, and if any of them will actually worth taking as they got rather random loadouts the make even R'myr blush.

The whole point of the FSE is that they DON'T have ethreals? Why do you want them in a true FSE force?

I don't. I don't even own one, but currently it breaks the subfaction.

You CAN'T play a simple battalion without a fireblade.
Fire blades are strict gunline infantry support.
The FSE are not supposed to gunline, and are practically the worst at it from all T'au.

They need to fix it. Preferably by giving a way around the commander limit.

the_scotsman wrote:

A number of those changes would just turn Tau into an also attended codex.
Riptides can't get more expensive or we just go back to index Tau without the ability to be able to take multiple commanders, ie competitively non viable.
Nothing in the Tau arsenal is particularly OP, they need internal balance work I won't argue with that but nerfing the auto pick units just because they don't suck isn't helping.
Also the number of units that are only effective with multiple strategums and other bonus stacked on them is frankly rediculous.
A Tau list without CP or strategums plays on a totally different power level than with them

I think you'll find that that statement is pretty much true for every codex....luckily, everyone has CP and stratagems.

When a faction is seen relatively frequently in competitive play as a major contender, it doesn't make sense to buff poor units without taking a look at what's already winning them tournaments. It is rather clear to me that part of the reason BS4+ crisis suits are currently uncompetitive is because they share their weapon prices with models that move 60", BS2+ and character protections.

 BoomWolf wrote:
I don't. I don't even own one, but currently it breaks the subfaction.

You CAN'T play a simple battalion without a fireblade.
Fire blades are strict gunline infantry support.
The FSE are not supposed to gunline, and are practically the worst at it from all T'au.

They need to fix it. Preferably by giving a way around the commander limit.

Said before, saying again:

Add a Shas'el option to the HQ lists. Put 'em in all of the various XV suits(Stealth, Crisis, and Broadside) and you end up with something new and potentially interesting. Not sure how to really differentiate them from the Commanders aside from reducing their options or granting them some kind of "reflected" aura boost when you call Mont'ka or Kau'yon?

 BoomWolf wrote:
The entire rail lineup is pathetic and needs rework.

Crisis suits are useless.

Several systems are redundant, pointless or simply overpriced as hell.

Also, while the codex can produce some decent lists, it's pretty much a monolist with most units taking a backseat.

The silly commander system isn't helping as it rendered pretty much any character non viable as the can't really compete with coldstars ever.

Enforcers are arguably even better than colds stars with CIB.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
The entire rail lineup is pathetic and needs rework.

Crisis suits are useless.

Several systems are redundant, pointless or simply overpriced as hell.

Also, while the codex can produce some decent lists, it's pretty much a monolist with most units taking a backseat.

The silly commander system isn't helping as it rendered pretty much any character non viable as the can't really compete with coldstars ever.

Enforcers are arguably even better than colds stars with CIB.

They are entirely better with CIB b/c CIB are the best weapons choice, and coldstar cannot take them.

@Kanluwen I suspect just being bs3+ and letting them call the 1ce a match Mont'ka or Kau'yon would be enough... at 65 points or so

the_scotsman wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Breachers need to be significantly cheaper than Fire Warriors to ever consider them (add points to the regular Rifle, so we can also have Carbine FW's)

Crisis suits need a drop, as mentioned.

Anythng "rail" sucks

I'd like a reason to take pathfinders over marker drones

kroot stuff needs a buff

My ideal points shifts would be:

Pulse Rifle +1pt
Breacher -1pt
Pathfinder special weapons/toys drastically cheaper (rather than buffing pathfinders, make them more than a ML bot unit)
Riptide up, with a significant part of the nerf in the HBC
Hammerhead down, significan part in the Railgun
Broadside railgun down
crisis suits down
Coldstar up/new "Character" price for fusions like we have with Storm shields
krootox down
Sniper drones down

A number of those changes would just turn Tau into an also attended codex.
Riptides can't get more expensive or we just go back to index Tau without the ability to be able to take multiple commanders, ie competitively non viable.
Nothing in the Tau arsenal is particularly OP, they need internal balance work I won't argue with that but nerfing the auto pick units just because they don't suck isn't helping.
Also the number of units that are only effective with multiple strategums and other bonus stacked on them is frankly rediculous.
A Tau list without CP or strategums plays on a totally different power level than with them

I think you'll find that that statement is pretty much true for every codex....luckily, everyone has CP and stratagems.

When a faction is seen relatively frequently in competitive play as a major contender, it doesn't make sense to buff poor units without taking a look at what's already winning them tournaments. It is rather clear to me that part of the reason BS4+ crisis suits are currently uncompetitive is because they share their weapon prices with models that move 60", BS2+ and character protections.

When every list is the same.it doesn't mean again that the units are over pweforming, it just means they are clearly the best options available to the faction.
When they start rolling event win after event win like Ynarri, like Drukari then yes stuff needs nerfed, but when they really arn't racking up win after win I'm failing to see the need for nerfs.

Most Units fall into 4 categories IMHO
OP Dissy Ravagers Castellen etc
Competitive Riptide, firewarriors, deathguard
Casual Foot custodes
Bad terminators assualt marines

I'd rather not see a faction loose it's competive units while OP stuff still exsists in the game.
One the OP combos and tge Bad units are within a casual/competitive band then you can fine tune.
Deal with the outliers before you go after books that just have 1 semi competative list.

Riptides aren't actually very good. BS4+ costing around 280 points with proper upgrades. It's really just drones that are OP. Intercepting lascannon shots with 10 point models that don't even need to be in LOS to block the shot is pure nonsense. FFS they can intercept volcano cannon shots.

IMO riptides should get a price drop and savior protocols should get a rewrite. (to intercept a drone must be in LOS of the shooter). Then broadsides and riptides could get the points drops they actually deserve.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Riptides aren't actually very good. BS4+ costing around 280 points with proper upgrades. It's really just drones that are OP. Intercepting lascannon shots with 10 point models that don't even need to be in LOS to block the shot is pure nonsense. FFS they can intercept volcano cannon shots.

IMO riptides should get a price drop and savior protocols should get a rewrite. (to intercept a drone must be in LOS of the shooter). Then broadsides and riptides could get the points drops they actually deserve.

Uh... how cheap do you think Riptides should be?

18 S6, AP-2 (because you will) D2 shots are not bad. Especially in a world where we consider the Ravager to be a monster with 9 S5/AP-3/D2 shots.
8 S5/AP-1 shots that ignore LOS are also reasonably tasty.
Sure base BS 4+ isn't great and its a heavy weapon - but you can, and most likely will, put 5 marker lights on any specific unit you want dead that turn.

Its hard for me to think that a Dissie Ravager should be around 140/150, but that a standard loadout Riptide should only be around 250.