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 TwinPoleTheory wrote:


He's trash.

Trash by what metric? Just that he isn't as good as Calgar?

he's a place holder, nothing more. basically like the Blackstone Fortress guy, he gets a hammer.....yay! They are just setting the stage for Abbadon to return in full force, so haarken has to fail and be crushed.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:


He's trash.

Trash by what metric? Just that he isn't as good as Calgar?

He's not as good as other HQ options in the chaos book. The units he buffs are not good either. The build he would augment is interesting, but it's not good.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:


He's trash.

Trash by what metric? Just that he isn't as good as Calgar?

Because a generic Chaos Lord with a jump pack and the Blade of the Hydra is only 93 points.

But the recent CA captions show Raptors being 15 pts base, so Haarken must be good then, right???

More seriously though, I don't think that raptor point reduction helps them much even when combo'ed with Haarken. Raptor unit itself is handicapped by the general CSM rule that the champion cannot take both some power weapon AND combi-weapon simultaneously which is markedly different from normal SM rules. So Haarken buffs the pseudo-shooty shock unit, Raptors, in melee while the unit itself is extremely weak in melee to begin with.

Also the Haarken buff bubble is within 6" so one cannot do exactly wide movements with raptors.

Hmmmm, actually now looking through the leaks it doesn't look that bad. One could go 5 Raptors with 3 plasma pistols and power fist (all these had points drop). This adds up to about hundred points. Not that bad! Alternatively one could replace 2 plasma pistols with plasma guns or meltaguns. Raptors seem still problematic with Haarken as the Raptors shooting power can't be upscaled because of their hard limit of 2 special weapons + 1 combi for champion. If their rule worked something like 2 special weapons for every 5 guys one could have stacked like 15 guy blob with 6+1 special weapons, ran in with guns blazing and fire twice stratagem and then go to melee in next turn. Raptors rules just make them extremely inefficient target for most stratagems because they have poor damage output in both shooting and melee phase.

Raptor champ can take a power weapon and combi?

Abaddon303 wrote:
Raptor champ can take a power weapon and combi?

Hmmm, I went to check the errata and apparently the wording has been altered. Original wording did not allow any power weapon options if one took combi weapon for the champion. My mistake.

 bullyboy wrote:
he's a place holder, nothing more. basically like the Blackstone Fortress guy, he gets a hammer.....yay! They are just setting the stage for Abbadon to return in full force, so haarken has to fail and be crushed.

Seems kinda pointless to give him a model if they're just going to introduce him for no reason other than to kick his teeth in so a bigger, badder dude can show up. Maybe a disconnect between the model design team and the narrative team, the former had this idea for a raptor lord they were really excited about but the lore team just could not care less?

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
he's a place holder, nothing more. basically like the Blackstone Fortress guy, he gets a hammer.....yay! They are just setting the stage for Abbadon to return in full force, so haarken has to fail and be crushed.

Seems kinda pointless to give him a model if they're just going to introduce him for no reason other than to kick his teeth in so a bigger, badder dude can show up. Maybe a disconnect between the model design team and the narrative team, the former had this idea for a raptor lord they were really excited about but the lore team just could not care less?

Likely. They have unequivocally stated that the models are designed first, and then given to the rules/lore team to fit it into the game. So likely the model team came up with him and Haarken is what the rules team came up with rather than a generic Raptor lord with power weapon. It just feels like the rules team doesn't "get" Chaos (and haven't since 3.5 basically) so continually misses the mark on what to actually do for them.