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Note: We were both playing new lists, so we opted for a classic Maelstrom game on a Dawn of War board with three fixed Tactical Objectives per turn and the typical secondaries.
Turn by turn BatRep:
Spoiler:
Turn 1:
My opponent finished deploying, he won the roll-off, and I failed to seize. His pregame stratagem deep strike and deployment in no-man’s land put immediate pressure on my left flank with Infiltrators and Ruststalkers. The AdMech big guns took out my two Vanguard Immolators in the center, dumping Melta Doms and Stormbolter Doms awkwardly midfield without cover or support. The AA kit on one of the Onagers shredded the Seraphim while the Rangers sniped a few wounds off an exposed Canoness. He shifted his infantry screens and Dragoons forward while the Onagers and Kastellans hung back to lay down maximum firepower.
I answered back with the Melta Doms bringing down an Onager. The new “Blessed Bolts” stratagem gave the Stormbolter Doms what they needed to drop the Infiltrators. The Exorcists killed two of the three Kastellans, and the Penitent Engine lumbered out to meet and destroy a Dragoon. I reformed my center with newly dismounted infantry and a core of characters with overlapping auras.
Turn 2:
AdMech did some frantic repairs, but the fact that I had taken out two Kastellans limited what the TechPriests could do. The neutron lasers and plasma calivers took out the Retributer’s Rhino, forcing the heavy flamers to attempt to disembark advantageously. The last Kastellan and his TechPriest handlers gave the Penitent Engine the fiery death it craved. The Ruststalkers closed on the Exorcists and did a few wounds. Rangers got some shots in on the Canoness mannng the Exorcist re-roll castle.
My rearguard Canoness scuttled out of LoS to do some Spirit of the Martyr healing, but everyone else was on the move. The Stormbolter Doms repositioned to gun down the Ruststalkers as the Exorcist they’d been hacking at fell back. The other Exorcist couldn’t quite drop the last Kastellan across the board… my opponent’s overlapping repair bubbles kept it fresh, and falling back with an Exo meant that a poorly managed flank cost me a finished job on those robots. Two squads of melta-loaded Battle Sisters disembarked from the remaining Rhino and formed up with the heavy flamer Retributers to square off opposite two Onagers and two squads of screening Skitari. They were supported by the midfield Canoness, Dialogus, and Celestine, making this the 3+/4++ stratagem magnet. They managed to take down a second Dragoon, a second Onager, and put enough casualties on a couple of the Vanguard and Ranger units to force additional Morale losses. The flamer Seraphim arrived with Burning Descent, but couldn’t quite scrub the Rangers off the objective I needed. A defensive strat got them Overwatched pretty heavily… in both durability and damage output I wished for more bolt pistols on that squad.
At this point, my opponent conceded. We were closely matched in points, but I had clearly established board control and had the numbers and speed to contest things where I needed to. Had we played it out on points, I’d have been able to run up the score on him with mechanized ObSec. Had we played it to a man… best guess is that I’d have mopped up his remaining Onager and Kastellan in Turn 3, wiped out his infantry with weight of dice from flamers and bolters, and gone after Cawl and two other HQs with nearly half of my original force.
Outcome aside, I found AoFs nothing to write home about… flavorful and sometimes potent, but never game-breakingly good or even reliable enough to plan around. Blessed Bolts was great, and I have high hopes for some of the other stratagems. The Exorcists provide essential ranged AT now that nobody is as fast as they used to be. I'll be dropping Retributers and the Penitent Engine to try some other options.
We played one of the new Maelstrom missions from CA18 called Strategic Gamble… you draw to three TacOs each turn, and can trade in two for a single additional one that counts double during that turn only. We played on the Search and Destroy map and got in three turns before we called it for time (me with a new Codex, and he new to the game in general; our turns were not fast).
I chose the deployment zone that seemed most favorable regarding objective markers (start with two and quickly grab a third). He deployed first and went first. The CA18 deployment rules saved us 40 minutes.
I’ve played against ‘chrome tide’ gunline Necrons before, and these were not them. The S&D deployment map leaves the armies 18” apart, and I quickly overextended myself with Vanguard moves not knowing these these Necrons would have come for me anyway.
Turn by turn BatRep:
Spoiler:
Turn 1: I vanguarded my two Immolators out on one flank (terrible choice; I thought they’d deal with the six Canoptek Wraiths, but they got dealt with themselves) and vanguarded my foot Dominions out on the other flank (brilliant move, probably saved me the game). He took first turn and using the Destroyers, Tomb Blades, and Doomsday Ark took out an Immolator, a few melta Sisters, and a minimum BSS with stormbolters. The second Immolator fell to the Wraiths in melee. Both flame tanks were gone and both melta squads were walking… not an ideal start.
On my turn, I went after objectives but also moved to counter the Wraiths. The stormbolter Dominions made a run for a third objective in addition to the two I had deployed on. The main aura blob moved up the middle of the field for better range and RoF, while the dedicated Bloody Rose blob split off to relieve the violently dismounted melta Dominions. I made a bold move to get the heavy flamers in range of his front ranks of warriors. Sustained shooting took out only 12 of 20 Warriors, with a few more going to Morale, but I had shot myself out of effective range and couldn’t get at the rear of the conga line. The Exorcists erased a unit of Destroyers.
Here’s where I put the Bloody Rose to the test. I sent a Canoness with IP and BoA, a unit of five Celestians with Power Axe, a Preacher, and a Dialogus out to meet the Wraiths who were munching their way through melta Dominions at their pleasure. Celestine and Jacobus had been nearby, but they were buffing the main aura blob and I chose not to commit them… perhaps a mistake. The Passion got me double attacks with the Celestians, but the Wraiths didn’t care about the Power Axe or Blade of Retribution thanks to their awesome invuln saves. I forgot to stack Fire and Fury for some extra wounds, and while he couldn’t seem to fail a save, I couldn’t seem to make one. I basically took out one Wraith in shooting and another in melee, and he snuffed every Bloody Rose model I’d brought in return.
Turn 2: Reanimation Protocols brought back a fistful of warriors (I probably should have used the Exorcists on them to get them close enough for Morale to finish the job, but taking out Destroyers seemed like the right thing at the time). He used a stratagem to stand up the two Wraiths I’d managed to kill. They took out the rest of the melta Doms and gauss fire knocked down the heavy flamer Retributers and most of the Sisters in the main aura blob… the 3+/4++ didn’t do much good. He dropped Deathmarks on a distant objective and pushed his wall of warriors up the middle of the board.
I unloaded two BSS squads with melta guns to join the stormbolter Dominions. Those three squads collectively took down another unit of Destroyers and a squad of Tomb Blades. The Exorcists almost got the second squad of Tomb Blades. The Seraphim arrived and used Burning Descent… I chose to hit the Wraiths instead of the Deathmarks, but they took out only a single model. The melee continued with me adding Celestine, Jacobus, and my Warlord to the fray, but in exchange for a single Wraith, he took down Celestine and the Warlord Canoness.
Turn 3: He used the stratagem again to stand up more Wraiths, as they were clearly the MVPs at this point. Without his heavy AT, he poured small arms fire into an Exorcist to finish it off. Gauss and tesla fire basically made sure that there was nobody left in my center to extend an aura to, and the Wraiths had effectively turned my left flank.
My right flank was holding strong with two objectives delivering VPs and plenty of damage output from a critical mass of stormbolters and meltas, but I had no characters over there to offer aura buffs. My plan was to use two healthy Rhinos to evacuate the characters from the messy melee and try to win on points while the remaining Exorcist proritized his faster elements. I had a rearguard to bring up and a gun battle shaping up between Deathmarks and Seraphim, but we called after three turns: Sororitas 11, Necrons 7.
Photos of the battle:
Spoiler:
Initial deployment:
I thought this was a cool angle for a start-of-battle tableaux.
Turn 2: Canoptek Wraiths shred at my left flank while a squad of Retributors with heavy flamers disembarks from their Rhino, moves into close range, and incinerates a dozen Necron Warriors.
We called this a win for me, but he had what it took to table me… I didn’t have a answer for the Wraiths and he had the bodies for full board control given enough time. If we had played it out, especially to six or seven turns, he’d have had enough cards go his way to win on points. The main message here: Stratagems are way more potent than AoFs. Burning Descent didn’t do much for me this game, but Blessed Bolts and Holy Trinity both served up satisfying results, and I missed a key application of Faith and Fury. If they could streamline the use of AoFs and make them synergize better with stratagems, they’d really have something. MVPs on my side were the Exorcists, who rolled really well, the stormbolter Dominions who were excellent objective campers and dished out some damage while doing it, and the humble melta BSS, mounted two to a Rhino, who covered more ground and inflicted more casualties than the melta Doms.
Tactical errors on my part: going out to meet the Wraiths (the Immos and Doms never got their chance to shine because I sent them too soon into rapid fire and charge range), extending beyond my aura bubbles (too eager to use Holy Trinity on the heavy flamers, sending objective campers out without aura support), ignoring rule zero of fighting Necrons (should’ve ignored the Destroyers for a turn to take out a Warrior squad, or the other way around).
All in all, two great games… my inexperience with Necrons tempered my ability to really test the Sisters. I’ll try the Bloody Rose detachment again tio see where they can shine… it wasn’t in this game. Wraiths are pretty much our natural perfect enemy: S6 wounds us on 2+, a 3+ invuln ignores melta saturation, T5 makes them tough to wound, and W3 makes them hard to drown in dice. The RP stratagem takes them from challenging to impossible.
I’ve got a third matchup tomorrow vs. Dark Angels (I suspect maxing out speeders at the new price point) and an accompanying Knight. Stay tuned and keep the faith!
Thanks - great reports = very open battlefield on the vs Necrons game - what was terrain like on the Ad Mech game?
I have two games on Sunday to try out 1500 pts revised.
One of the things I really like about the new CA missions is that tabling soemone does not matter - you can still win (or loose) on VPs
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
I think I’ve hit on a (marginally) useful combo for Vessel of the Emperor’s Will and Spirit of the Martyr.
Because Vessels spreads the Act of Faith out to all units with the Adepta Sororitas keyword this means it also effects Sororitas vehicles (Sororitas Rhino, Immolator, Exorcist and our good friend the Repressor) and can heal each damaged vehicle d3 wounds AND return dead vehicles to life (with one wound). This would make the 4++ parking lot more robust.
However, the lack of long range options limits our ability to reach out to the enemy. Twin Multi-Meltas are the same 24” range as most of the rest of our guns and for the 85 points to get Twin Heavy Bolters on an Immolator, one could instead get four from a Retributors squad. While one could turn a Repressor into a Heavy Bolter bunker by sticking the Retributors inside, the vehicle is of much more use driving special weapons into more effective range.
It’s so frustrating to have useful synergies in the codex denied due to lack of options.
Even with Spirit of the Martyr repairing vehicles, there’s nothing in the codex to reliably take the zombie vehicles up above 1 wound.
I’m putting aside a little cash every week until the Sisters release, but since I have enough basic models it’s earmarked for any new stuff which shores up places where the army is currently lacking… AND NOTHING ELSE.
C’mon GW design team, if you want my money, then make it worth my while with good rules for good models.
And yes, it’s gotta be BOTH the rules AND the models which are good to get the $10 per week or so I’m setting aside.
Also, Rynner didn't you get like 11th at LVO last year with a majority Sisters list?
No, that wasn't me. I didn't go to LVO last year. I'm currently number 2 in Sisters in ITC and am planning on sucking it up and brining them to LVO this year.
Even with Spirit of the Martyr repairing vehicles, there’s nothing in the codex to reliably take the zombie vehicles up above 1 wound.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I dont believe you can bring a vehicle back from the dead with 1 wound, since you have to /return/ the model to a unit, once the last model is down, the unit is destroyed and there's nothing to be returned to, its the same reason I dont like celestes bodyguards being their own unit, its counter intuitive to their existence.
It is a ton of cp to blow on rezzing a few models though, my first thought was pen engines, but it triggers off of adeptus sororitas keyword, and pen engines don't have it :(
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Frowbakk wrote: Because Vessels spreads the Act of Faith out to all units with the Adepta Sororitas keyword this means it also effects Sororitas vehicles (Sororitas Rhino, Immolator, Exorcist and our good friend the Repressor) and can heal each damaged vehicle d3 wounds AND return dead vehicles to life (with one wound).
I can't see the vehicle rez working outside of squadrons, and as penitents don't apply that seems like a dead end.
I guess I could see it first turn, going second, where you've still got a castle piled up. Relies a bit on your opponent splitting their fire though.
Frowbakk wrote: Because Vessels spreads the Act of Faith out to all units with the Adepta Sororitas keyword this means it also effects Sororitas vehicles (Sororitas Rhino, Immolator, Exorcist and our good friend the Repressor) and can heal each damaged vehicle d3 wounds AND return dead vehicles to life (with one wound).
I can't see the vehicle rez working outside of squadrons, and as penitents don't apply that seems like a dead end.
I guess I could see it first turn, going second, where you've still got a castle piled up. Relies a bit on your opponent splitting their fire though.
3cp + 1 faith to bring back, what, maybe 3-4 models or heal 6hp is pretty steep too, esp when you have blessed bolts/trinity to pay for and a pure sisters list can be hurting for cp
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Frowbakk wrote: Because Vessels spreads the Act of Faith out to all units with the Adepta Sororitas keyword this means it also effects Sororitas vehicles (Sororitas Rhino, Immolator, Exorcist and our good friend the Repressor) and can heal each damaged vehicle d3 wounds AND return dead vehicles to life (with one wound).
I can't see the vehicle rez working outside of squadrons, and as penitents don't apply that seems like a dead end.
I guess I could see it first turn, going second, where you've still got a castle piled up. Relies a bit on your opponent splitting their fire though.
3cp + 1 faith to bring back, what, maybe 3-4 models or heal 6hp is pretty steep too, esp when you have blessed bolts/trinity to pay for and a pure sisters list can be hurting for cp
I run my pure Sisters with 14cp. Is that starved?
I have gotten decent heals with Vessels and Martyr when going second and sitting in a 4++ bubble. Take your lumps, pop the AoF and Vessel it out to the entire blob. After that I find castling up revolting to play and will likely never have anything even worth trying it on. Blessed bolts builds rob Dominion squads of what they should be doing, roasting tanks with meltaguns. Trinity is a trap in my opinion, building for it only half makes sense on heavy flamer Rets IF those make sense to you...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/28 17:31:42
Not starved, but not great either. You should be sitting at 18 to 20, depending on whether you're going triple battalion or brigade and battalion. If you're only getting 14, then you're doing bat/bat/1cp detachment, which is pretty unoptimized given how good basic Bloody Rose girls are when in range of the deathstar.
I have gotten decent heals with Vessels and Martyr when going second and sitting in a 4++ bubble. Take your lumps, pop the AoF and Vessel it out to the entire blob. After that I find castling up revolting to play and will likely never have anything even worth trying it on. Blessed bolts builds rob Dominion squads of what they should be doing, roasting tanks with meltaguns. Trinity is a trap in my opinion, building for it only half makes sense on heavy flamer Rets IF those make sense to you...
You probably shouldn't be using Vessel in that situation though: just heal the most important one, and let the rest suffer. Unless your opponent is trying to tier-down but not destroy your Exorcists (aka- your opponent is bad), or tiering down your Exorcists and sniping at Celestine, then there should never be a situation where you get more than 27ish points out of the splash (not including the primary unit being healed). 3 CP for 27 points is a hail mary level of investment that you'd use in turn 3 or something to put more bodies on an objective, not something you should be doing on the regular.
While Sisters don't have a lot of good outlets for burning that CP, you should be bringing allies that can make use of the excess (such as a Smashcap battalion).
My problem is that Dominions don't actually roast tanks, every vehicle or monstrous creature I'm worried about has real defenses like invulns and to-hit penalties.
Meltaguns are fine for killing Carnifexes and Rhinos, but I need an answer to Knights and Eldar bs.
Edit: And Blessed Bolts SB Dominions outperform Meltagun Domions in those circumstances.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/28 17:49:23
Not starved, but not great either. You should be sitting at 18 to 20, depending on whether you're going triple battalion or brigade and battalion. If you're only getting 14, then you're doing bat/bat/1cp detachment, which is pretty unoptimized given how good basic Bloody Rose girls are when in range of the deathstar.
Yeah thats the problem that I have with them
There's only so many stormbolter+power axe basic sisters squads I can take before I get bored of it and a brigade when like all your elite choices don't take up a slot is a tough sell.
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I plan on trying a mistress of repentance, a dialogues, and a squad of celestians in a brigade.
The mistress is the only other non canoness character who can take the brazier and have it actually work. If I don't need the brazier than at the very least I have annoying CC character or something that can get in the way.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/28 19:24:32
Yeah thats the problem that I have with them
There's only so many stormbolter+power axe basic sisters squads I can take before I get bored of it and a brigade when like all your elite choices don't take up a slot is a tough sell.
"Sisters" and "Exciting" are mutually exclusive in a competitive setting now.
The most exciting thing you're going to do is pray you don't get gaked by the dice for your Exorcist shots and The Passion rolls; but that's not going to feel exciting, it's going to have two modes: operating like you expect it to, and soulcrushing disappointment.
The most exciting thing you're going to do is pray you don't get gaked by the dice for your Exorcist shots and The Passion rolls; but that's not going to feel exciting, it's going to have two modes: operating like you expect it to, and soulcrushing disappointment.
Thats why you need to save as much cp for rerolls as you can not blow it on rezzing 5 infantry :p
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Yeah thats the problem that I have with them
There's only so many stormbolter+power axe basic sisters squads I can take before I get bored of it and a brigade when like all your elite choices don't take up a slot is a tough sell.
"Sisters" and "Exciting" are mutually exclusive in a competitive setting now.
The most exciting thing you're going to do is pray you don't get gaked by the dice for your Exorcist shots and The Passion rolls; but that's not going to feel exciting, it's going to have two modes: operating like you expect it to, and soulcrushing disappointment.
That's not true. I've found every game exciting. I've got a few games in now and each one about halfway through the game I get excited!!.... about painting my Khorne army and shelving sisters.
I also have no interest in running castled up horde sisters.
I also have no interest in running castled up horde sisters.
While I would have preferred a more interactive playstyle that had more difficult decisions than whether or not I should waste my own clock time turning models sideways when I declare charges and seeing if my opponent understands the joke, I accept that this is what Sisters are at for at least the next three months, but more likely the next twelve; remember the nine months between CA2018 development and physical release? Well if they're actually going to be reading any of the feedback, then that nine month shot clock hasn't even started yet: they likely won't start actually roundtabling feedback until after they see how LVO pans out.
I played my game against Dark Angels + Knight today... no time for a BatRep as thorough as the ones above, but I pulled down a decisive Turn 5 win on board control... he couldn't catch me on points. Highlight moment: I took down his Knight on turn 1, mostly melta Dom damage, but the final blow was struck by a Bloody Rose Celestian bringing her boltgun down on its giant toe. It blew up, rolled an 8" radius, and dealt a total of 38 mortal wounds to my army. We basically traded 400+ points for 400+ points and fought 4 more turns with 1500-point armies. Holy Trinity, Blessed Bolts, Burning Descent all earned their keep, and a Passionate Celestine dropped Belial but was ultimately focus-fired down herself. Still the same general opinion here... Valorous Heart is solid, stratagems quite good, AoFs pretty meh, and the army as a whole adequately competitive, at least in my meta.
Not starved, but not great either. You should be sitting at 18 to 20, depending on whether you're going triple battalion or brigade and battalion. If you're only getting 14, then you're doing bat/bat/1cp detachment, which is pretty unoptimized given how good basic Bloody Rose girls are when in range of the deathstar.
With all the no slot units and the R03 how is anyone doing brigade + battalion and not leaving wasted units on the table? I run 14 CP and have to hunt for reasons to use them.
I have gotten decent heals with Vessels and Martyr when going second and sitting in a 4++ bubble. Take your lumps, pop the AoF and Vessel it out to the entire blob. After that I find castling up revolting to play and will likely never have anything even worth trying it on. Blessed bolts builds rob Dominion squads of what they should be doing, roasting tanks with meltaguns. Trinity is a trap in my opinion, building for it only half makes sense on heavy flamer Rets IF those make sense to you...
You probably shouldn't be using Vessel in that situation though: just heal the most important one, and let the rest suffer. Unless your opponent is trying to tier-down but not destroy your Exorcists (aka- your opponent is bad), or tiering down your Exorcists and sniping at Celestine, then there should never be a situation where you get more than 27ish points out of the splash (not including the primary unit being healed). 3 CP for 27 points is a hail mary level of investment that you'd use in turn 3 or something to put more bodies on an objective, not something you should be doing on the regular.
27 points? Do you mean for three Sisters? If I have infantry models on the table after going second (only time I would consider using it) my opponent has destroyed at least one of my transports. "IF" I decide to use Vessels and Martyr then its because it has the potential of healing 8 vehicles, a Canoness and Celestine all at once.
PuppetSoul wrote: While Sisters don't have a lot of good outlets for burning that CP, you should be bringing allies that can make use of the excess (such as a Smashcap battalion).
Why would I build to bring an excess of CP so that I have to bring allies to use them? 14CP for pure Sisters is plenty. There is a high likelihood that Vessels will be FAQ'd to not work on vehicles, which makes the entire thing pointless. In the current interpretation you can get a decent amount of Martyr heals on tanks castled up for a 4++ in turn one when going second. I wouldn't use it any other time since I hate the idea of staying castled up.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
deviantduck wrote: I also have no interest in running castled up horde sisters.
So much of all of this. If they expect us to playtest the army, I will playtest the army but as it should be. Entirely beholden to the idea that she who bails, fails...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/28 23:50:13
I ran double batt plus vanguard at 2000pts and once I had bought relics, the 11CP I had left vanished far far too quickly.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Okay, so a few questions before I share some of my own attempts at a Sisters list:
1. Blobs of infantry: would you say they are worth taking at all now, or is mech still the way to go?
2. How viable does an Argent Shroud Spearhead sound? Everything that your Exos/Rets kill has a chance of regaining a faith point
3. Just in general, has anyone been having any success with any non-Bloody Rose order? I did see earlier on this page that someone had a good run with Valorous Heart.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/29 02:21:22
Mr Morden wrote: I ran double batt plus vanguard at 2000pts and once I had bought relics, the 11CP I had left vanished far far too quickly.
Likewise... I ran double battalion plus vanguard and two relics today, and I blew through 13 CP by Turn 4. One use of Vessels, the rest were rerolls for Exos and critical armor saves, rerolls for the Passion for Celestine, Blessed Bolts, Holy Trinity, and Burning Descent. I had 6 FP left after 5 turns. I may eventually look at bringing back my Scion battalion or building a Guard battalion.
1. Blobs of infantry: would you say they are worth taking at all now, or is mech still the way to go?
2. How viable does an Argent Shroud Spearhead sound? Everything that your Exos/Rets kill has a chance of regaining a faith point
3. Just in general, has anyone been having any success with any non-Bloody Rose order? I did see earlier on this page that someone had a good run with Valorous Heart.
1. I haven't tried big blobs yet. I'm also drifting away from strict minmaxed squads... 7 or 8 seems pretty utilitarian so far. Mech also seems great... my double BSS Rhino with 2 meltas per squad has earned its keep in every game.
2. I've never come close to running out of FP. Also, vehicles don't get convictions.
3. I think that's me... I forced a lot of split fire last game when my opponent just couldn't knock off that last model. Probably passed 8-10 FNPs over 5 turns. It also enabled me to use Spirit of the Martyr where I otherwise couldn't have.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/29 03:26:39
MacPhail wrote: Likewise... I ran double battalion plus vanguard and two relics today, and I blew through 13 CP by Turn 4. One use of Vessels, the rest were rerolls for Exo's and critical armor saves, rerolls for the Passion for Celestine, Blessed Bolts, Holy Trinity, and Burning Descent. I had 6 FP left after 5 turns.
The difficulty for the AoF is usually way too high to warrant a re-roll for such little return. I find myself avoiding building for Blessed Bolts and Holy Trinity so they don't bite in to my CP count. I only re-roll Exo shot total when I get a 1, if I take them. I avoid Vessels entirely unless I went second and can get a wide net for it and Martyr during my first turn and think it could offset my opponents first turn damage enough to warrant it. The rest of the time I use AoF when applicable and use my CP for necessary re-rolls and strategems.
If you think of AoF as soft strategems I usually start a game with 10 FP and 11 or more CP after Relics. Plenty enough for using 2 AoF and burning 2 CP a turn through Turn 5.
The numbers are wrong. That's shots, not hits. Even Divine guidance with a Canoness won't get you those numbers.
Divine Guidance with a Canoness means 2.89% of our shots will miss under perfectly controlled circumstances.
Unless you play 40k on a craps table with casino dice, that's below the margin of error for people bringing their own dice.
It's not practically relevant sure, but A. You're not getting a Canoness with holy trinity most of the time(or if you are you're sacrificing bolter shots for the sake of conga lining) and B. It is still technically not 100% chance to hit.
1. Blobs of infantry: would you say they are worth taking at all now, or is mech still the way to go?
2. How viable does an Argent Shroud Spearhead sound? Everything that your Exos/Rets kill has a chance of regaining a faith point
3. Just in general, has anyone been having any success with any non-Bloody Rose order? I did see earlier on this page that someone had a good run with Valorous Heart.
1. Some people argue that infantry blobs are the overall best way to use Sisters in the new book. While I agree that the book definitely pushes you in that direction, I'm not sold that the bonuses you get for running infantry blobs make up for OUR infantry blob's inherent deficiencies in objective based games.
2. Not at all. Getting extra faith points is not really a priority. Most of the time you'll end the game with leftover faith points. If you DO need to get more FP than what you can get out of martyrdom will be more than enough in most cases.
3. Sacred rose(5+ overwatch and Morale protection) is very nearly as good as Bloody Rose is.
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Mr Morden wrote: I ran double batt plus vanguard at 2000pts and once I had bought relics, the 11CP I had left vanished far far too quickly.
We chew through CP faster than any army in the game by far, even only using vessels once or twice a game(despite the fact that the power of the ability is such that you need to use it multiple times PER TURN to see any real return on investment). We make Castellan soup look like space marines.
I also have no interest in running castled up horde sisters.
While I would have preferred a more interactive playstyle that had more difficult decisions than whether or not I should waste my own clock time turning models sideways when I declare charges and seeing if my opponent understands the joke, I accept that this is what Sisters are at for at least the next three months, but more likely the next twelve; remember the nine months between CA2018 development and physical release? Well if they're actually going to be reading any of the feedback, then that nine month shot clock hasn't even started yet: they likely won't start actually roundtabling feedback until after they see how LVO pans out.
That's stupid. The data set they're going to get from LVO won't be much help at all. Only like 3-4 people in the top 100 slots ever play sisters and of those AT LEAST 1 is going to stick with the index rules. The only way the LVO dataset would have been significant is if the book had received a clear buff.
In fact, this can only be bad for us. 95% chance sisters see no significant representation in the top 50, but there is that 5% chance that Nick Nanavati or Andrew Gonyo or somebody do some weird anti-meta soup build that uses the 4++ to like...deny the opponent the ability to deploy, creating an instant first turn win through some weird rules loophole we all missed or something and GW walks away going 'Well that army is far too powerful! Let's ignore all the feedback we've gotten up to now and put New Celestine to 250pts, change divine guidance to 'reroll 1s to hit' Change spirit of the martyr to heal wounds only, and make the Immolation flamer Heavy and only d3 hits.'
The most exciting thing you're going to do is pray you don't get gaked by the dice for your Exorcist shots and The Passion rolls; but that's not going to feel exciting, it's going to have two modes: operating like you expect it to, and soulcrushing disappointment.
Thats why you need to save as much cp for rerolls as you can not blow it on rezzing 5 infantry :p
Or you could bring a GOOD tank.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/12/29 07:53:10
Dialogus doesnt have the Order keyword, doesnt have a bolt pistol and cant take a powersword.
She cannot have any of the weapon relics because thwy replace a powersword or a bolt pistol.
The rest of the relics only affect Order units around them and as she has no Order, she cannot affect anything but herself.
Giving a dialogus a relic is either impossible or literally useless.
Giantwalkingchair wrote: Dialogus doesnt have the Order keyword, doesnt have a bolt pistol and cant take a powersword.
She cannot have any of the weapon relics because thwy replace a powersword or a bolt pistol.
The rest of the relics only affect Order units around them and as she has no Order, she cannot affect anything but herself.
Giving a dialogus a relic is either impossible or literally useless.
No it isn't. Only Braizer of Eternal Flame have 'order' restriction, You can use Litany of Faith and Book of St. Lucious regardless of order keyword.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/29 12:23:14
I've had reasonably good success running Bloody Rose and using Rhinos with the invuln deathstar.
Four Rhinos - Three crammed full of Battle Sisters, one with my Repentia in it. (Also a Repressor with 2x Dominions inside, but that zooms away early.) Celestine, a Dialogus, and a Canonness with the +1 Invuln trait run behind, and I pop +3" on the canonness Turn 1 to ensure she can keep up even with a bad Advance roll.
In my experience, most lists have not had sufficient anti tank to crack open 4 Rhinos with 4++ Invulns. (The Repressor usually dies, but that's expected.)
That being said, I haven't had a chance to face ""real"" tournament armies with this, mostly it's been people playtesting for an upcoming single-codex tournament.
Okay, so the top three relics are the Book, Blade, and Brazier. I've been running just the Blade (on a Bloody Rose Canoness looking for a fight) and the Brazier (on my Valorous Heart Warlord in the Celestine buff bubble at the center of my deployment). For those who run the Book as well, who has it, and what do you do with whatever aura they're projecting out to 9"? Is anyone standing two or more Canonesses (Canoni?) next to each other for overlapping invuln + deny coverage, or do you run each of them with smaller cohorts doing different things all over the board?
