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Battle sisters hit on 4s, it costs a lot in CP, the only way you'll get charge priority is if your opponent is a doof,it has a 42% chance to fail unless you're planning on giving up one of your good at combat models, 3 CP, and a bunch of points out of the blob to take it up to 25% chance to fail, the fact that not the entire army is actually going to get to fight twice(even with creative interpretation of the rules). They also have much more freedom to move around. You can string your models a deceptively long way, but if you attack the center of the blob, you can kill the front layer and have plenty of movement to consolidate into the second and deny BR on the following turn.
I've actually been taking an Index Imagifier with a Beta Dex Simulacrum and Ebon Chalice Order (the battalion has Celestine and Uriah as the HQs, with 3 MSUBSS with stormbolters). She costs 50 points, but splashes Passion on a 3+ with a free reroll from a dialogus.
If Passion works RAW, being in combat isn't actually a problem for The Pink Tide: you simply fall back whichever layer(s) they put in combat, light them up with rapid fire bolters, charge the units who were not in combat, and then Splashion your units that fell back back into combat.
I don't suspect it will stay that way for long (assuming GW ever actually releases the FAQ), but at the moment it is incredibly powerful in a list built around it, and turns Sisters into the most resilient, mobile horde available, at the cost of 3 CP per turn.
It's all pretty muddy and this sentence made me physically cringe "'Ive actually been taking an Index Imagifier with a Beta Dex Simulacrum and Ebon Chalice Order "
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It's all pretty muddy and this sentence made me physically cringe "'Ive actually been taking an Index Imagifier with a Beta Dex Simulacrum and Ebon Chalice Order "
This thread definitely has a different flavor since the beta dex leaks started coming out and it really doesn't have anything to do with the book. It feels hijacked and is part of why I am not participating as much these days.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/04 20:24:38
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pretre wrote: This thread definitely has a different flavor since the beta dex leaks started coming out and it really doesn't have anything to do with the book. It feels hijacked and is part of why I am not participating as much these days.
ok
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It's all pretty muddy and this sentence made me physically cringe "'Ive actually been taking an Index Imagifier with a Beta Dex Simulacrum and Ebon Chalice Order "
Seems like a bit of a stretch compared to the Chaplain-on-a-Bike situation, where you really need the Index entry to field your model at all. Imagifiers made not have transferred into the BetaDex, but if what you've got is a Battle Sister with Something-Sacred-on-a-Stick, there ARE rules for that in the BetaDex. Heck, it's in the GW Webstore as "Battle Sister with Simulacrum Imperialis." That's definitely a model you can play without needing the Index.
Page 69 of chapter approved states "We have also removed Imagifiers as a unit - instead, models within certain Adepta Sororitas units can now carry a Simulacrum Imperialis, and this ties in to how the proposed new Acts of Faith ability works."
I would have thought that makes it pretty cut and dried that the index unit is obsolete and intentionally removed from the faction. But I guess along with the passion GW are going to have to be extra clear in the errata/codex to satisfy everyone.
pretre wrote: This thread definitely has a different flavor since the beta dex leaks started coming out and it really doesn't have anything to do with the book. It feels hijacked and is part of why I am not participating as much these days.
It certainly is a bit more dour. I get it. I know I can't contain my angst. I've been trying not to post if it isn't positive, but I'm just overwhelmed with disappointment and find it hard to not in everyone else's cheerios.
Automatically Appended Next Post: On a positive note! I played at our shop last night and beat up on some orks. He ran 60 boys, 17 storm boys, 2 squads of tank bustas in trucks, some gretchin, 3 tractor cannons, a trike, weird boy, and some bikes. Orks certainly fear our number storm bolters. Celestine failed to wound 4/6 attacks and a 30 man squad was left with 1 boy that was green tide-ed right back next turn. That hurt. I've played against orks a lot since their dex so I've been doing fairly well against them as of late. But back to the positive note, we've been hovering around 3-5 players every week at the shop, and last night there were 11. Woo. Twice I overheard others at another table discussing sisters and possibly buying some after reading the new dex. So... yay for the faction getting traction.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/05 07:20:43
Page 69 of chapter approved states "We have also removed Imagifiers as a unit - instead, models within certain Adepta Sororitas units can now carry a Simulacrum Imperialis, and this ties in to how the proposed new Acts of Faith ability works."
I would have thought that makes it pretty cut and dried that the index unit is obsolete and intentionally removed from the faction. But I guess along with the passion GW are going to have to be extra clear in the errata/codex to satisfy everyone.
Read the first sentence in the paragraph that line comes from.
They removed it in the Codex, but it's still available in Index 2, so you can still take it unless they gave us a datasheet that said 0-0 as its availability, or that occupies a detachment slot that isn't available to any detachments (or they explicitly squat it out of Index 2).
And then you're forced to abuse the stupid "if the model came with it, it can take it" rule to get the +1 to tests version of the Simulacrum.
PuppetSoul wrote: Read the first sentence in the paragraph that line comes from.
"We are particularly interested to hear your feedback on this rule in comparison to that presented in Index: Imperium 2" Or
"It is worth highlighting that we have made some changes..." ?
pretre wrote: This thread definitely has a different flavor since the beta dex leaks started coming out and it really doesn't have anything to do with the book. It feels hijacked and is part of why I am not participating as much these days.
It certainly is a bit more dour. I get it. I know I can't contain my angst. I've been trying not to post if it isn't positive, but I'm just overwhelmed with disappointment and find it hard to not in everyone else's cheerios.
I don't mind posts that are negative. I mind when individuals needle everyone with their negative, narrowly defined perspective constantly and turn this thread into a mess. That in turn amplifies the angst of people who are just trying to get some tactica information.
This thread, in all it's incarnations, goes back a good 5-10 years. It has always been about taking what we have for Sisters of Battle and turning it into something we can have fun playing and hopefully win some games. Maybe if people remembered that and tried to help each other have fun and be competitive rather than beating the same dead horse we could return to that.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
deviantduck wrote: On a positive note! I played at our shop last night and beat up on some orks. He ran 60 boys, 17 storm boys, 2 squads of tank bustas in trucks, some gretchin, 3 tractor cannons, a trike, weird boy, and some bikes. Orks certainly fear our number storm bolters. Celestine failed to wound 4/6 attacks and a 30 man squad was left with 1 boy that was green tide-ed right back next turn. That hurt. I've played against orks a lot since their dex so I've been doing fairly well against them as of late. But back to the positive note, we've been hovering around 3-5 players every week at the shop, and last night there were 11. Woo. Twice I overheard others at another table discussing sisters and possibly buying some after reading the new dex. So... yay for the faction getting traction.
That is pretty interesting. The whiffing part stinks but I know that the lack of sisters players has always been about perceived availability. Now that we have a dex that most players in the game actually own and they know we're getting new models (and holy crud after seeing Gitz AND GSC this month, I'm stoked), we're probably going to get a powerful influx.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/05 15:53:28
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Page 69 of chapter approved states "We have also removed Imagifiers as a unit - instead, models within certain Adepta Sororitas units can now carry a Simulacrum Imperialis, and this ties in to how the proposed new Acts of Faith ability works."
I would have thought that makes it pretty cut and dried that the index unit is obsolete and intentionally removed from the faction. But I guess along with the passion GW are going to have to be extra clear in the errata/codex to satisfy everyone.
Read the first sentence in the paragraph that line comes from.
They removed it in the Codex, but it's still available in Index 2, so you can still take it unless they gave us a datasheet that said 0-0 as its availability, or that occupies a detachment slot that isn't available to any detachments (or they explicitly squat it out of Index 2).
And then you're forced to abuse the stupid "if the model came with it, it can take it" rule to get the +1 to tests version of the Simulacrum.
No, what that line means is that the imagifier is not supposed to be used as a separate unit in conjunction with the beta rules, specifically because of the new AoF system. That whole section is literally an explanation of how you're supposed to be using the beta codex.
No, what that line means is that the imagifier is not supposed to be used as a separate unit in conjunction with the beta rules, specifically because of the new AoF system. That whole section is literally an explanation of how you're supposed to be using the beta codex.
Nobody is debating that part. They removed the Imagifier from the Codex, and it doesn't work with the new AoF system. Settled. Now where in that block does it say that we can't take an Index Imagifier anyways, because I have an FAQ document that says I can.
"Supposed to" and "Allowed to" are two completely different things, especially when we're referring to a Beta Codex that seems deliberately designed to remove any competitive viability from the army other than as a 22-model anti-psyker detachment for other factions.
No, what that line means is that the imagifier is not supposed to be used as a separate unit in conjunction with the beta rules, specifically because of the new AoF system. That whole section is literally an explanation of how you're supposed to be using the beta codex.
Nobody is debating that part. They removed the Imagifier from the Codex, and it doesn't work with the new AoF system. Settled. Now where in that block does it say that we can't take an Index Imagifier anyways, because I have an FAQ document that says I can.
"Supposed to" and "Allowed to" are two completely different things, especially when we're referring to a Beta Codex that seems deliberately designed to remove any competitive viability from the army other than as a 22-model anti-psyker detachment for other factions.
The beta codex is not an official rule set, it's a request by GW to help them test and shape rules for the final product. That section is an explanation of how they're supposed to be used to help further that purpose and includes not using the imagifier as a separate unit. Obviously because it's old ability isn't intended to work with the new AoF system. If you want to exploit this as a loophole to gain an advantage that GW has already said you're not supposed to have then knock yourself out, but you're missing the point here.
Automatically Appended Next Post: At the very least, stop presenting it as a valid strategy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/05 22:24:24
Got another game in today vs Aeldari Soup. Ran double battalions of OoSR with two full squads of Seraphim with max hand flamers and a plas on the Superior and one Exorcist. Swapped out my usual meltaDoms for melta BSS and SBDoms. Was trying to get as much use out of Blessed Bolts as possible. The targets with 2W were difficult to wound and those T3 targets I had really didn't warrant the -2AP. The SB Doms were targeted quickly after I began dismounting them to make use of the stratagem. All in all about what I expected and though I will be giving it a few more runs just to be thorough. Looking to move back to meltaDoms for AT duty and double SBBSS for clearing chaff.
I did enjoy a SB Dom squad getting 17 hits and 14 wounds in one round of overwatch. OoSR has yet to disappoint me.
Ran a 1500 Point Order of the Bloody Rose mech army today against an non-optimized Thousand Sons forces. One a narrow victory due to the close combat prowess of two 9-Sister BBS squads, a Missionary and Eviscerator Cannoness. They managed to kill a hellbrute, 5 TS Terminators, and 5 Rubics via the combination of quality and quantity of attacks along with good old fashioned shooting.
Meanwhile, Celestine and the Geminae Superia spent the game slap-fighting Ahriman (darn 3++) before finally killing him at the cost of the Geminae after many a turn of Psychic powers (hooray for Aegis of the Emperor).
Except for Aegis of the Emperor and some well timed Hand of the Emperor, I found Acts of Faith to be very lackluster. Either couldn't get the off or they just didn't do much. They need to be either automatic or much better given how few chances you get to use them.
Here's my first stab at a post-Chapter Approved list. I'm fairly new to 8th, so if you see anything wrong, please let me know (for instance, the first time I drafted the list, I forgot that I couldn't take four units of Dominions and I forgot to pay for some of the wargear; I'm still stuck in 5th, where you didn't need to pay for standard wargear). Any suggestions as to units or wargear are also welcome, of course.
Sisters of Battle Brigade - Order of the Bloody Rose
15 CP / 8 FP
Canoness (Indomitable Belief / Book of St. Lucius / Power Maul) 49
Canoness (Power Sword / Inferno Pistol) 56
Celestine 160
dracpanzer wrote:Got another game in today vs Aeldari Soup. Ran double battalions of OoSR with two full squads of Seraphim with max hand flamers and a plas on the Superior and one Exorcist. Swapped out my usual meltaDoms for melta BSS and SBDoms. Was trying to get as much use out of Blessed Bolts as possible. The targets with 2W were difficult to wound and those T3 targets I had really didn't warrant the -2AP. The SB Doms were targeted quickly after I began dismounting them to make use of the stratagem. All in all about what I expected and though I will be giving it a few more runs just to be thorough. Looking to move back to meltaDoms for AT duty and double SBBSS for clearing chaff.
I did enjoy a SB Dom squad getting 17 hits and 14 wounds in one round of overwatch. OoSR has yet to disappoint me.
Huh. I really just skipped over OoSR, so this is a lot of interesting stuff for me.
alextroy wrote:Ran a 1500 Point Order of the Bloody Rose mech army today against an non-optimized Thousand Sons forces. One a narrow victory due to the close combat prowess of two 9-Sister BBS squads, a Missionary and Eviscerator Cannoness. They managed to kill a hellbrute, 5 TS Terminators, and 5 Rubics via the combination of quality and quantity of attacks along with good old fashioned shooting.
Meanwhile, Celestine and the Geminae Superia spent the game slap-fighting Ahriman (darn 3++) before finally killing him at the cost of the Geminae after many a turn of Psychic powers (hooray for Aegis of the Emperor).
Except for Aegis of the Emperor and some well timed Hand of the Emperor, I found Acts of Faith to be very lackluster. Either couldn't get the off or they just didn't do much. They need to be either automatic or much better given how few chances you get to use them.
How was the psychic management against the TS?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Banosby wrote: Here's my first stab at a post-Chapter Approved list. I'm fairly new to 8th, so if you see anything wrong, please let me know (for instance, the first time I drafted the list, I forgot that I couldn't take four units of Dominions and I forgot to pay for some of the wargear; I'm still stuck in 5th, where you didn't need to pay for standard wargear). Any suggestions as to units or wargear are also welcome, of course.
Spoiler:
Sisters of Battle Brigade - Order of the Bloody Rose 15 CP / 8 FP
Canoness (Indomitable Belief / Book of St. Lucius / Power Maul) 49 Canoness (Power Sword / Inferno Pistol) 56 Celestine 160
I think this is a pretty solid starter list. It's pretty similar to some of the stuff I run. I don't know that you're going to get a lot of use out of OoBR but I'm still interested to hear how you fare.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/01/06 16:43:53
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alextroy wrote:Ran a 1500 Point Order of the Bloody Rose mech army today against an non-optimized Thousand Sons forces. One a narrow victory due to the close combat prowess of two 9-Sister BBS squads, a Missionary and Eviscerator Cannoness. They managed to kill a hellbrute, 5 TS Terminators, and 5 Rubics via the combination of quality and quantity of attacks along with good old fashioned shooting.
Meanwhile, Celestine and the Geminae Superia spent the game slap-fighting Ahriman (darn 3++) before finally killing him at the cost of the Geminae after many a turn of Psychic powers (hooray for Aegis of the Emperor).
Except for Aegis of the Emperor and some well timed Hand of the Emperor, I found Acts of Faith to be very lackluster. Either couldn't get the off or they just didn't do much. They need to be either automatic or much better given how few chances you get to use them.
How was the psychic management against the TS?
Between the Braiser of Eternal Flames Relic, Aegis of the Emperor Act of Faith, and Purity of Faith Stratagem, I was able to mount a good defense against the relentless tide of Mortal Wounds. I never shutdown a Psychic phase, but none were ever devastating either.
alextroy wrote: How was the psychic management against the TS?
Between the Braiser of Eternal Flames Relic, Aegis of the Emperor Act of Faith, and Purity of Faith Stratagem, I was able to mount a good defense against the relentless tide of Mortal Wounds. I never shutdown a Psychic phase, but none were ever devastating either.
That's kind of what I've been figuring but it is good to hear that it actually works on the table.
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I'm thinking about a new list and a new default tactic, the outlook being reactive more than proactive. I've been running a good variety of units: SB Doms, HF Rets, Bloody Rose melee bomb. Several here (I suspect) might say "simplify, focus on throwing lots of cheap dice and being a tough nut to crack. So, here goes:
Bloody Rose Vanguard
Canoness with IP, BoA Relic
1x7 Celestians w/ Power Axe
Dialogus
Preacher
The core element is the VR Canoness w/ Brazier, Celestine, Jacobus, and Dialogus flanked by 4x BSS with 3x SB each. I'll try splashing Divine Guidance onto a wall of Stormbolters hitting on 2s and rerolling 1s. I'm also thinking the Dominion's mounted Vanguard move is less to throw them across the board and more to build a wedge at the limit of the aura bubble for T7 4++ and LoS blocking. Secondary elements include a VR Canoness and 2x Exorcists with 2x5 BSS to screen them, a full-size Seraphim deep strike, and a Rhino packing a Bloody Rose Canoness w/ IP and BoA, Preacher, Dialogus, and 1x7 Celestians w/ Power Axe.
The basic tactic, of course depending on mission and opponent and turn sequence, is to march the Cathedral up the middle, crack armor and hold the backline with the Castle, selectively disrupt the backfield with the Angels, and park the Holy Hand Grenade where it will cause the most trouble. I'm concerned (but not too concerned) I might miss the the Dominions T1 anti-armor fire (by keeping them in the bubble) or the Bloody Rose auras on T1 (by keeping them in a Rhino). Not a static or one dimensional list, but a simple and focused one, I hope, and maybe a fun one.
MacPhail wrote: I'm thinking about a new list and a new default tactic, the outlook being reactive more than proactive. I've been running a good variety of units: SB Doms, HF Rets, Bloody Rose melee bomb. Several here (I suspect) might say "simplify, focus on throwing lots of cheap dice and being a tough nut to crack. So, here goes:
Bloody Rose Vanguard
Canoness with IP, BoA Relic
1x7 Celestians w/ Power Axe
Dialogus
Preacher
The core element is the VR Canoness w/ Brazier, Celestine, Jacobus, and Dialogus flanked by 4x BSS with 3x SB each. I'll try splashing Divine Guidance onto a wall of Stormbolters hitting on 2s and rerolling 1s. I'm also thinking the Dominion's mounted Vanguard move is less to throw them across the board and more to build a wedge at the limit of the aura bubble for T7 4++ and LoS blocking. Secondary elements include a VR Canoness and 2x Exorcists with 2x5 BSS to screen them, a full-size Seraphim deep strike, and a Rhino packing a Bloody Rose Canoness w/ IP and BoA, Preacher, Dialogus, and 1x7 Celestians w/ Power Axe.
The basic tactic, of course depending on mission and opponent and turn sequence, is to march the Cathedral up the middle, crack armor and hold the backline with the Castle, selectively disrupt the backfield with the Angels, and park the Holy Hand Grenade where it will cause the most trouble. I'm concerned (but not too concerned) I might miss the the Dominions T1 anti-armor fire (by keeping them in the bubble) or the Bloody Rose auras on T1 (by keeping them in a Rhino). Not a static or one dimensional list, but a simple and focused one, I hope, and maybe a fun one.
You know with a small amount of tweaks you can take a brigade instead of 2x battalions and have mostly the same list and have more cp!
Anyway more data I guess -
This past Saturday I played in a 3 round, 21 person, LVO prep RTT. I wound up going 3-0 good enough for second place.
Some musings -
Horde sisters are strong but absolutely miserable to play. Your whole game plan is to grind down your opponent. It's boring, tedious, and keeping track of your bubbles when your that spread out is a mini game in and of it's self.
Exorcists are better at tying up things in combat than they are at shooting. I got the most value out of mine just charging them into units of Ork boys or anything Eldar.
It's fairly easy to avoid taking any real damage in the psychic phase. Between acts of faith, the braizer, and the 4+ deny stratagem we can own that the phase.
The strongest (or at least the most useful) acts of faith seem to be light of the emperor and aegis of the emperor. The rest of them are way too unreliable for not that much benefit. I failed hand of the emperor or divine guidance so many times I got the point of debating if it was even worth the time rolling the dice for it.
I'll admit, Vessel has its uses but its few and far between. I would really like to see it be 1 CP cheaper or work off any unit that passed an act of faith, not just a character.
Lastly, and I think I've said this before but I'll say it again after playing in a competitive setting with Sisters, acts of faith are in no way simpler to explain or use. It now requires far more pre game discussion/explanation with your opponent to explain what they do provided your opponent cares enough to ask. Furthermore both people keeping track of 3 separate resource pools is really bad game design.
I get it, unless your Eldar, free phases = bad but there has to be a better system that does similar things than this.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/01/07 16:09:11
Here's what ive been playing around with
Armigers replacing the knight, and my exorcists, the warglaives forfill countercharge and have the speed and anti-tank gun, while the longer range ones also have the speed, and produce more reliable firepower at range for a slight bump in cost, taking the superheavy detach also gives me several more cp
Warglaves could be subbed for more pen engines, but I like the 30" melta gun even if it is more points.
bloody rose make sisters counter charge very potent, just fall back anything engaged, and each sister is swinging S4/3A, the leader is swinging S5/4A , sometimes swinging twice, its all pretty horrific for ~10pt models, and most things you dont want to deal with crumble to the massed storm bolters.
The remaining points, and maybe losing one autocannon armiger are up in the air, I feel like around 70 sisters is a good number of bodies, a large trinity squad or heavy flamer trinity squad in the rear makes sure that whatever charges you, dies terribly
I don't particularly like foot sisters but my feedback has been emailed in and hopefully they at least give us something to do with all these faith points.
Exorcists are better at tying up things in combat than they are at shooting. I got the most value out of mine just charging them into units of Ork boys or anything Eldar.
I'll echo that, the shots-per exorcist needs to be upped in reliability or shots and reduced in damage, since shifting those points over to armigers that do like 3 times the work for a bit more points, and can still tie stuff up if they need to, things have gone much better in taking out those longer range threads that the sisters brick wall don't want to deal with
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/07 16:27:15
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Played two games so far (downside to a college town on winter break). 1K against Space Wolves as Valorous Heart, 1500 vs Slaanesh Daemons as Bloody Rose. I'm 2-0, but not because the army is strong in any fashion.
Versus the Daemons player we ended up in an meat grinder with me as the attacker. Sustained Assault brought back all of my units on turn 3, including Celestine, with most of his army in my side of the board and his Daemonettes couldn't deal with my tanks. I only killed Zaraknyel because of the respawn and my Rhino blowing up the turn before, dealing mortal wounds to her. The only Act of Faith that had an appreciable affect on the game was Spirit of the Martyr, which brought back an inferno pistol Seraphim. Vessels was a waste. I spent 3CP on a turn 1 Passion for a unit of 6 Repentia, 2 Seraphim, Celestine, my eviscerator Canoness, a Missionary and the Rhino (Canoness and Rhino already engaged, rest charged) and dealt a grand total of 5 damage to Zaraknyel, all of which came from their normal attacks. The extra attacks did nothing. When the Repentia returned I used the Passion on them again and killed Zaraknyel on their first set of attacks with nothing else to pile into. My tanks (5 Immolators, a Repressor and a Rhino) served as Distraction Carnifexes, with my opponent either running from them or trying them up early in the game only to spend 2-3 Battle rounds trying to blue them up.
As for the Wolves, we played Open War. The twist have us +2" of movement and +1 to advance and charge rolls and benefited me more than him by getting my models into rapid fire or charge ranges as early as turn 1. I sacrificed my Immolators (3) to reduce an Aggressor squad to 1 model and put some hurt in a Grey Hunters squad then charged then in to tie up the remaining models. The GH Immolator lasted far longer than it should have while his Wolf Priest and Thunderwolves murdered the other two only to share the fate of his Gravis Captain a turn earlier when blessed bolts whittled down the squad. My Seraphim killed the Wolf Priest then started harassing the Lone Wolf Aggressor. Again, I wasted CP on Vessels to heal my Canoness on his Lone Wolf Thunderwolf, a BSS and an Inferno Pistol Seraphim. I'd done so much early damage and got a few lucky overwatch rolls with my last Immolator and Celestine's flamer that his Smash Captain, Intercessors and other Grey Hunters squad couldn't handle me having a mostly full army (minus the 173 points I forgot to deploy >.> )
I'll get into more later if I have time. On lunch break and running late, but I will say I felt Celestine and Acts of Faith were lackluster both games and my Immolators were the real MVPs of both games.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/07 19:18:15
No, what that line means is that the imagifier is not supposed to be used as a separate unit in conjunction with the beta rules, specifically because of the new AoF system. That whole section is literally an explanation of how you're supposed to be using the beta codex.
Nobody is debating that part. They removed the Imagifier from the Codex, and it doesn't work with the new AoF system. Settled. Now where in that block does it say that we can't take an Index Imagifier anyways, because I have an FAQ document that says I can.
"Supposed to" and "Allowed to" are two completely different things, especially when we're referring to a Beta Codex that seems deliberately designed to remove any competitive viability from the army other than as a 22-model anti-psyker detachment for other factions.
Stop. There is a thread in the rules clarification forum if you want to argue about this.
On thread topic:
I think if they want to see people take more than Ebon Chalice they need to make the others have purpose. There is not a whole lot of reason not to increase your chance of AoF army wide. I hate suggesting a nerf but if it was something else you'd see more variety long term imo. (Maybe a stronger Psychic defense? Like a full 2D6 deny the witch or something?)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/07 19:23:22
You know with a small amount of tweaks you can take a brigade instead of 2x battalions and have mostly the same list and have more cp!
It's basically swapping Jacobus for 2 Preachers. 1 fewer HQ and the Elites needed to fill the slots in the Brigade. The question is whether that's a fair trade for 2 CP. Jake's auras aren't exactly necessary, but he's so much better than a Preacher for the points.
All averages include chance of failure to perform the AoF.
Divine Guidance, Canoness, Dialogus, Similacrum, EC:
12 bolter, 3 storm bolters, all rapid fire range: 34.796 dead MEQ per game
Just the Canoness, any other order: 25.857 dead MEQ/game.
So that's 40 points + an order conviction to kill 1.5 space Marines a turn. For +11 points I can instead get 5 Battle Sisters with 3 storm bolters and kill 2MEQ a turn (including Canoness rerolls) and get a better order conviction.
Spirit of the Martyr: average +1 model (9pts) returned per game, assuming no Dialogus.
The Passion: we've done extensive work him this one elsewhere. TL;DR, Bloody Rose without a Similacrum or Dialogus > Ebon Chalice with both
Hand of the Emperor: 40pts + Order conviction to average 2.97" of movement per turn vs 1.5 baseline
Aegis is a 5+ FNP versus psychic mortal wounds base once you factor in the test. Conviction + Dialogus OR Similacrum + Dialogus shifts it to almost 4+. Worth it against the right armies.
Light is hard to quantify because you don't know in advance how many models might be fleeing. Even then, we have upwards of 8 ways to mitigate morale.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/07 20:02:44
Armigers replacing the knight, and my exorcists, the warglaives forfill countercharge and have the speed and anti-tank gun, while the longer range ones also have the speed, and produce more reliable firepower at range for a slight bump in cost, taking the superheavy detach also gives me several more cp
Warglaves could be subbed for more pen engines, but I like the 30" melta gun even if it is more points.
You'll get better results running additional Helverins than running any Warglaives. Warglaives are in a weird spot where they have a decent melee profile offensively, but don't want to actually be in melee with anything that has a respectable melee profile itself, because they're unlikely to kill it and they don't have a melee invulnerable save.
And their megamelta suffers from the same problem that melta does: small shot volume, big damage is extremely swingy, and everything competitive that you'd want to shoot big guns at has an invuln save no less than 2 behind its armor save, so AP higher than 2 is basically irrelevant 100% of the time, and the low shot volume is easily punished with command rerolls.
bloody rose make sisters counter charge very potent, just fall back anything engaged, and each sister is swinging S4/3A, the leader is swinging S5/4A , sometimes swinging twice, its all pretty horrific for ~10pt models, and most things you dont want to deal with crumble to the massed storm bolters.
"Quantity has a quality all its own." - every Sisters of Battle player after playtesting the beta codex
The remaining points, and maybe losing one autocannon armiger are up in the air, I feel like around 70 sisters is a good number of bodies, a large trinity squad or heavy flamer trinity squad in the rear makes sure that whatever charges you, dies terribly
Or just 15 random bloody roses using their bolters as clubs.
I don't particularly like foot sisters but my feedback has been emailed in and hopefully they at least give us something to do with all these faith points.
Welcome to the club. We have jackets. Our name is the Club Club Club.
Exorcists are better at tying up things in combat than they are at shooting. I got the most value out of mine just charging them into units of Ork boys or anything Eldar.
I'll echo that, the shots-per exorcist needs to be upped in reliability or shots and reduced in damage, since shifting those points over to armigers that do like 3 times the work for a bit more points, and can still tie stuff up if they need to, things have gone much better in taking out those longer range threads that the sisters brick wall don't want to deal with
In my 28 Days Later email to faq feedback, I also reiterated that the Exorcist would be a good unit if it was made consistent. From a competitive standpoint, an inconsistent unit that can steal games if you roll hot, and gets wrecked if you roll cold, is a time bomb that you have to acknowledge will inevitably go off multiple times during a tournament. Super fun for casual games, but leaves you bitter when losing a single game out of three or more means leaving empty handed.
You'll get better results running additional Helverins than running any Warglaives. Warglaives are in a weird spot where they have a decent melee profile offensively, but don't want to actually be in melee with anything that has a respectable melee profile itself, because they're unlikely to kill it and they don't have a melee invulnerable save.
Counter point: Oh I'm with you, I just like having an extremely punishing counter charge model, and I like big stompy robots. I'll probably swap in 1-2 pen engines and more sisters instead of the warglaive.
Its just the autocannon armigers fall short at against some hard targets and I saw the melta lance as a stop gap attached to something I already wanted.
I have some very high ranked national players in my local meta, so I like throwing curve balls and off-meta solutions out there
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/07 20:23:06
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in everyone else's cheerios. 
There is a thread in the rules clarification forum if you want to argue about this.
