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Pretty sure Seraphim couldn’t get Evicerators in 3rd, only Repentia had them.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Pretty sure Seraphim couldn’t get Evicerators in 3rd, only Repentia had them.

SJ

That's where you'd be wrong.

C:WH - Veteran Superiors could buy from the WH armory which included... Eviscerators
C:CA 2002 - Oh wait, you're right. No eviscerators for Veteran Seraphim Superior (or canoness). They instead had... Axe of Retribution! Which counted as a Power Fist.

 pretre wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
SoB aren't supposed to be punching people.

I don't know about that. Sisters have always had a strange relationship with CC that has surprised the stuff out of opponents. Even in 3rd, we could tarpit like the best of them and wear down opponents in hand to hand (not counting reds who could just eat whole armies).

I didn't play Sisters in 3rd, but in 4th and 5th getting stuck in CC usually meant your Sisters were done for. You could throw up a 3++ and bog down units like Terminators, which relied on a small number of save-denying attacks to kill stuff, and ignoring Morale penalties in resolution was helpful at times, but I never remember being able to tarpit anything with my Sisters. I also remember being underwhelmed by the JP/ Evis Canoness, Seraphim, and Repentia, because while a melee threat can serve as a handy bullet magnet, if said bullet magnet is T3 it tends to get shot dead.

For me, the best way to do CC with Sisters was to bring Allies who could actually do CC. Or just ignore it and bring tonnes of Sisters and Immolators.

 BBAP wrote:
I didn't play Sisters in 3rd, but in 4th and 5th getting stuck in CC usually meant your Sisters were done for. You could throw up a 3++ and bog down units like Terminators, which relied on a small number of save-denying attacks to kill stuff, and ignoring Morale penalties in resolution was helpful at times, but I never remember being able to tarpit anything with my Sisters. I also remember being underwhelmed by the JP/ Evis Canoness, Seraphim, and Repentia, because while a melee threat can serve as a handy bullet magnet, if said bullet magnet is T3 it tends to get shot dead.

For me, the best way to do CC with Sisters was to bring Allies who could actually do CC. Or just ignore it and bring tonnes of Sisters and Immolators.

3rd and 4th didn't have a lot of options for allies who did CC though. I did miss 4th, though so maybe there were allies there.

The idea behind that tarpit wasn't that you killed a lot but that you held out for a while, which worked great, while the rest of your army killed things. JP/Evis canoness did work in 5th and 3rd though especially with a 2++ because there was a different volume of fire back then and because you could attach to units to hide and not get shot. I never used repentia until this edition because they've always been a bit overcosted.

 deviantduck wrote:
SoB aren't supposed to be punching people.

TBH, I always thought it would be really fun if there was a dedicated flamer unit (which could fire into melee), and sisters had some sort of bonus feel no pain save vs flamers or something

So you get bogged down, you can roast the filth off of your sisters, possibly lose one or two, and move on.

 pretre wrote:
I never used repentia until this edition because they've always been a bit overcosted.

Look at Fulgrite Electropriests, which are pretty standard for what an elite melee unit should look like.

Now look at Repentia and their mandatory support characters.

The Repentia cost more, have fewer wounds, have no save, have no FnP, don't tank shock, and unless you're Bloody Rose, put out less damage per point.

 pretre wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Pretty sure Seraphim couldn’t get Evicerators in 3rd, only Repentia had them.

SJ

That's where you'd be wrong.

C:WH - Veteran Superiors could buy from the WH armory which included... Eviscerators
C:CA 2002 - Oh wait, you're right. No eviscerators for Veteran Seraphim Superior (or canoness). They instead had... Axe of Retribution! Which counted as a Power Fist.

I still have Seraphim Superiors with a Power Fist from 2e. The loss of the option was the first of many disappointments of in the history the Sisters of Battle.

SJ

 pretre wrote:
The idea behind that tarpit wasn't that you killed a lot but that you held out for a while, which worked great, while the rest of your army killed things. JP/Evis canoness did work in 5th and 3rd though especially with a 2++ because there was a different volume of fire back then and because you could attach to units to hide and not get shot. I never used repentia until this edition because they've always been a bit overcosted.

in 4th I had a fluff bunny Inquisition army built from the two Hunters books so I can't speak to that, but in 5th Edition, pre-Crud-dex, I ran a really heavily MSU Sisters army for a while (can't remember the numbers but I had some IST Melta death-ride Rhinos, three Celestians, three Dominions, a Palatine Command Squad, all in Immos, and three Heavy Support Immos as well). The 5-model squads could use their 3++ to hold up units that relied on small numbers of save-denying attacks for a turn or two but they'd just vanish if the likes of Ork Boyz or Genestealers hit them, and I never felt more bodies would've prevented that because T3 just ships way too many wounds. Seraphim always seemed to end up dead for me unless I had a load of other infantry to channel shots away from them, and I always felt that'd just get worse if I'd stuck a super-expensive Canoness in with them.

I agree about Repentia - everyone's main complaint for, like, 15 years at this point has been that they cost too much and bring too little to the table. They're plenty killy, but they're just too slow and fragile to ever have a hope of seeing combat.

I suppose we're still technically in beta, so maybe that'll be something they fix when the full 'dex arrives? Recost or redesign Repentia, add an option for mobility without relying on vehicles, give them some way to force wounds past invulnerable saves, and do it all while maintaining the unique character of the army that - to GW's credit - they seem to be trying to build back into the Sisters if the last few rulesets are any indication.

EDIT: also I'm grognarding all over the thread at this point so I'mma stop until I actually have input to add :-o

So thinking on it, how best to ally my Sisters in to my BA force, since I don't exactly have much in the way of money to invest in a full on Sisters force...

I have basically two BA armies right now, or rather one large BA army that's distributed in to one of two kinds of lists.

The first one is my favorite, the "First and Tenth" list, that's terminators and scouts working in unison. I can very much imagine a small Sisters detachment adding something to this and making it more balanced. Even just the basic 17 or 22 would be a good addition I think without taking too much out of it.

Not sure how I could with the other one-- which is very heavy on the tacticals, instead. I recently traded some stuff for a pair of dakka dreads as long ranged support, and they have tons of flamers and Objective Secured to begin with, so a bit hard to fit Sisters in to that. Maybe a dominions melta detachment somehow? But I've no longer got a stock of immolators.

I'm closing on on 2-3k points of sisters, printed and converted for a grand total of maybe $100 :-x

Congrats? But like just trying to find a way to use my old minis with my new ones. I really don't want to collect too much old pewter before the new plastic hotness comes out, even if it takes another year or two for said hotness to be released.

 Grundz wrote:
I'm closing on on 2-3k points of sisters, printed and converted for a grand total of maybe $100 :-x

Well, except for the cost of the machine, but you probably already had that.

 pretre wrote:

 Grundz wrote:
I'm closing on on 2-3k points of sisters, printed and converted for a grand total of maybe $100 :-x

Well, except for the cost of the machine, but you probably already had that.

Yeah if you count one of the machines it was more like $300, which could have done the entire job it would just taken longer XD

 Grundz wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Grundz wrote:
I'm closing on on 2-3k points of sisters, printed and converted for a grand total of maybe $100 :-x

Well, except for the cost of the machine, but you probably already had that.

Yeah if you count one of the machines it was more like $300, which could have done the entire job it would just taken longer XD

I have a Prusa I3, but I can't find prints that are even halfway the quality of where'd I'd want them to be.

 deviantduck wrote:
I have a Prusa I3, but I can't find prints that are even halfway the quality of where'd I'd want them to be.

If you mean files, thats mostly done by trade for other files with other people that make them.
If you mean prints themselves, thats carefully tuning the printer in

There isn't a ton of quality stuff out there for no/low cost

for example, I'm currently working on my elites (celestians, dominions, possibly more choices)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gzlrgoy19O7iCFsns6AsGImfV4i10oHD

PuppetSoul wrote:
War Hymns is AdMini only.

I'm staring at the Chapter Approved page and that's not true. Calls out "ADEPTUS MINISTORUM INFANTRY and ASTRA MILITARUM INFANTRY" specifically.

 cowmonaut wrote:

PuppetSoul wrote:
Missionary is only +1 attacks to IG.
War Hymns is AdMini only.
+1 LD comes from Uriah Jacobus specifically (who I do think IG will take if they Faithful22; but I doubt IG will faithful 22 instead of taking a Castellan and either Smashcaps or Shieldcaps).

I'm staring at the Chapter Approved page and that's not true. Calls out "ADEPTUS MINISTORUM INFANTRY and ASTRA MILITARUM INFANTRY" specifically.

Added the rest of the quote for context.

I mislabeled the anti-flee aura as War Hymns, which is the +1 attack aura's name; it should have said Word of the Emperor there.

In context nothing changes though: Missionary only provides +1 attacks to IG. The rest of its abilities are AdMini only.

As a thought experiment:
Has anyone looked into the "Build your own character" rules and thought about applying them to a Canoness?
(I realize that the rules are blatantly not balanced and you can break the game really easily with them, that's aside the point.)

I think you could build a pretty fun tanky Canoness - +1 Wound, +1 Invuln, can only be wounded on a 4, 5, or 6, and 5+ FNP gives you a very durable little monster. The 4+ To Wound makes our low toughness matter a lot less. (If you are doing more than a basic hero, +1 Attack and +1 Attack on the Charge make for a nice combo with a Bloody Rose canoness, giving a whopping 8 attacks on the charge, or 16 if you get off The Passion.)

The problem I have iwth canonesses is their equipment choices more than their stats.

 Melissia wrote:
The problem I have iwth canonesses is their equipment choices more than their stats.

It seems like the only good option for a custom character beatstick is going to be the Blade of Admonition, which on the one hand means that we can't stack more melee weapon buffs onto it, but on the other it's already a fantastic weapon.

Though it seems like the best option to get the most out of the rules is to take a durability buff or two and then build the buffiest character possible. +3" Aura relic, give nearby sisters Ignores Cover, +1 AP on a 6+ to hit, and then a couple durability buffs. (Or give her +1 Leadership and the "Nearby models use her leadership" ability, if you want.)

Sisters are already an incredibly bubble-based army, so having one model that gives +1 to Invulns, rerolls on 1s to hit, ignores cover, and buffs to AP for everyone within 9" is fantastic. (Especially is you use The Passion to splash +1 To Hit as well.)




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though, again, these rules are incredibly cheesable. A Custodes Jetbike captain can make his hurricane bolter into a Rapid Fire 7, S5, Ap-1, D3 gun that ignores cover. (Or just S5 AP-1 D3 if he's a basic hero.) An Imperial Knight can get a permanent 3++, 2+ Ballistic Skill, Reroll 1s to shoot, and 5+ FNP as a basic hero, because there's no restrictions on who can get the abilities.

I'm more looking for fun comboes than the maximum possible power.

Yeah, that one is probably best for a separate thread. TBH, I never even read through them since they weren't for matched play.

Right. I just wish Sisters had access to better ranged weapons for their characters.

I admit I haven't read through them, either...

 Melissia wrote:
Right. I just wish Sisters had access to better ranged weapons for their characters.

I admit I haven't read through them, either...

I would absolutely enjoy a Canoness with a multi-melta.

Perhaps the most hotly anticipated item from the 2017 survey was the Sisters of Battle. We know just how much you’re looking forward to the new Adepta Sororitas, and so we’re happy to confirm that Codex: Adepta Sororitas is still on track (and looking more than a little great so far).

We promised we’d keep you up to date every step of the way, and so far, we have, with previews and even the chance to playtest the rules yourself. Continuing in that vein, we’re very excited to announce the Battle Sister Bulletin, a regular series – right here on warhammer-community.com – that’ll be packed with previews and insights until they arrive. Think of it as your one-stop shop for the very latest on the Adepta Sororitas.



Looks good -

Now that's a Simulacrum.

Very nice, very catholic.

Am I the only person raging about the dildo-helm?

Yes, most people (including me) love the Sallet helmet.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Yes, most people (including me) love the Sallet helmet.

Agreed

If by "raging" you mean angered that GW have faithfully recreated an excellent looking help that has been in the collection since the dawn of time? Then, yes?

If by "raging" you mean delighted that GW have faithfully recreated an excellent looking helm that has been part of the collection since the dawn of time? Oh no, youre not alone.