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Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

 Grundz wrote:
Since we are talking about repressors I just wanted to throw out, the 3x dom deathstar is 200+points in meltas, thats a lot of melting, probably too much melting if you have any sort of long ranged firepower.
Long... ranged... firepower?

What's that?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/20 21:28:29


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
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My blog
 
   
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Storm bolters maybe?
   
Made in us
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St. Louis, Missouri USA

 MacPhail wrote:
 deviantduck wrote:
 pretre wrote:
 Grundz wrote:
really the biggest downside is it is tough to make good use of the scout move while staying within your +invulnerable bubbles.

Since sisters lack anything big to block LOS, repressors do seem required even if you are running FOOT SISTERS just to get your meltas in range, unless you have 3x exorcists and some more supporting fire or something

I generally use the Dom Repressors outside of the bubble if I go first (with scout move) or inside (positioning with scout a max distance over the line but still in bubble) with going second.
Even with 3 exos, Dom repressors soak up a ton of fire that isn't going into the rest of your army and they still do a nice bit of damage when they fire. The repressor itself is no slouch at clearing things and I've had it do more damage when I really fluff my shots with the doms.
Exactly. We have the luxury of knowing who goes first prior to scouting. Stay in the bubble if second. If i'm going first I usually scout up 8-9 inches so that i can run and advance my BSS or Canonesses so they can hop in before I move 12. Now all of a sudden i have 3 repressors on your front line with 6 units in them. Granted, this is all enemy, mission, terrain dependant.


I've been aware of this stunt for a while, but you've made me see it in a new light. What if it were used to shove OoBR HQs and/or melee units across the board for a T2 flank charge? If antitank comes from other units, Dominions just pay a few extra points for Vanguard over a BSS. You could still load up cheap stormbolters for Blessed Bolts, use the flame cannons on T1 or pop smoke as needed, and unload a BoA, power axe, and a truckload of T4 shooting and melee into the enemy T2. You could even drop your Seraphim nearby for the Canoness aura and fling Celestine out there as well. I've been hung up on mobile melta... maybe mobile bolters is where it's at.
All SB for me. I ally in any anti tank I need, although I have been running new exorcists. Since my melta meltdown last august, I haven't even thought about a melta in a list.

 
   
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 Mmmpi wrote:
Storm bolters maybe?


Exorcists and allies

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 deviantduck wrote:
 MacPhail wrote:

I've been aware of this stunt for a while, but you've made me see it in a new light. What if it were used to shove OoBR HQs and/or melee units across the board for a T2 flank charge? If antitank comes from other units, Dominions just pay a few extra points for Vanguard over a BSS. You could still load up cheap stormbolters for Blessed Bolts, use the flame cannons on T1 or pop smoke as needed, and unload a BoA, power axe, and a truckload of T4 shooting and melee into the enemy T2. You could even drop your Seraphim nearby for the Canoness aura and fling Celestine out there as well. I've been hung up on mobile melta... maybe mobile bolters is where it's at.
All SB for me. I ally in any anti tank I need, although I have been running new exorcists. Since my melta meltdown last august, I haven't even thought about a melta in a list.


Looking from a pure Sisters and no Repressors viewpoint, I might try 3x Stormbolter Doms in Rhinos to get the short Vanguard move, and then load 2x BSS, maybe with some flamers, and a BoA Canoness, PAxe Canoness, Preacher and Dialogus jumping into the third Rhino. They could theoretically unload Turn 2 in enemy territory with a wall of flamers screening a wall of stormbolters, all ready to melee with OoBR and the Passion as needed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Grundz wrote:
 Mmmpi wrote:
Storm bolters maybe?


Exorcists and allies


Adding three Exorcists is the best I can do... might be enough against some armies, but not all. I really enjoy pure Sisters and want to at least have a solid list of them ready for TAC matched play.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/21 16:00:23


   
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 Grundz wrote:
 Mmmpi wrote:
Storm bolters maybe?


Exorcists and allies


I'm sorry for being unclear. I was actually joking.
   
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USA

As was I.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
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My blog
 
   
Made in gb
Missionary On A Mission






 pretre wrote:
You can't take 6 units of doms in matched play.


The point isn't that you can spam Dominions, it's that you can spend the points on other stuff. One Repressor is two more SB-BSS units, or some HF Retributors, or 2x5 Arcoflagellants, or 9 Cadian Mortars, or a Hellhound, or... etc. Repressor mobility and CC shenanigans are fine, but I'm not convinced they're more worthwhile than more bodies in an army whose damage relies on rolling lots of dice.

As a thought experiment I threw together a 2000pt army in Battlescribe using just the Sisters Codex with no vehicles at all. I got 120 models in a Brigade and a Battalion, with a Vanguard for Bloody Rose Repentia which you could dump in favour of another Battalion if you wanted to.

Alternatively you could drop the Battalion + Vanguard and use the points to bring other Imperium stuff like Knights or Guard or whatever. Sisters are far, far better than Guard at bubblewrapping. The only thing the Guard have that Sisters don't is Emperor's Wrath artillery, and that's cheap enough you could bring some in a Spearhead if you wanted.

Six units of T3 5-10 wounds each vs 3 units of T7 12 wounds?


It's not that simple though, is it? I can't kill 3-9 Dominions with a single Volcano Lance hit.

Stratagem to splash to everyone.


Fair enough.

Wot? If you double storm bolters, you're firing 6 Stormbolters, which is like firing 12 bolters. You're not losing anything.


Nobody cares about 12 Boltgun shots. That's, what, 5 dead Guardsmen or something. If you catch them out of cover. People will care about 32 boltgun shots, which is what you get at 24" by dismounting the two units, dumping the Repressor, and bringing another two SB-BSS units with the points.

 Goldphish wrote:
I'd agree with you that there isnt a greay build, but Id disagree on the flyers/knights. BR Repentia kill knights easily, and flamers are pretty good at taking care of flyers. Also I kinda feel like SoB needs BA smash captains. Solves a lot of the armies issues with over watch, flyers, and castellans.


Repentia will kill anything easily. Killing stuff has never been their problem. Mobility has always been their major flaw, and nothing has changed in that respect. I suggest the Repentia won't kill a Knight because they'll never reach it, which is why Sisters really need some proper long-range anti tank.

Luckily with Battle Brothers rules you can give it to them, so while there might not be a good mono-dex build for the Adepta Sororitas they're better placed now than they have been for ages.

Also a butt-load of Flamers might worry one Flyer, but if I'm bringing any Flyers at all I'd bring at least 3.


I feel like I'm not explaining myself here, so let me try and break down my thought process.

Transports have pros and cons. The pros are mobility, protection from damage and CC, and simplification of your shooting phase by allowing you to fire all 6 of your Stormbolters by measuring from a single point. They have one major con - you need to cut stuff out of your army to fit them in.

I'm not convinced the pros of mech Sisters outweigh the cons in the current climate. Sure, you can move further, but if all you're carrying is boltguns and a Heavy Flamer then what's the point? Anything that'd find this level of firepower worrying is going to be coming towards you (Storm Guardians, Cultists, Orks, GSC Acolytes/ Morphs) or will still take damage from it at max range (Guardians, Guardsmen). In my mind, MOAR boltguns is preferable in either case. On top of that, MOAR boltguns makes your shooting more of a threat to anything that **doesn't** fear your 12+2 Boltgun shots and D6 HF hits, which is pretty much anything T4+ and/ or with a 3+ save.

Moreover, the protection from shooting and assault is a red herring. Repressors give Damage D[x] weapons a juicy target to shoot at, as opposed to all-infantry armies where their big bad Damage 3d3 weapons are killing one Sister per shot, and it's not difficult to screen footsloggers with other footsloggers.

I suppose if I'm running mono-dex Sisters I could see reasons to run Repressors, especially if I was running Arcos and Repentia as a CC threat (because both of these units need vehicles to even begin to be useful and you need to take 5-8 vehicles if you're taking any at all), but I'm not sure I'd do that. The more time I spend thinking about this the more convinced I become that mono-dex Sisters just don't have the tools to cover their own weaknesses, and the best thing to do is run them as part of a soup.

So, yeah. That's where I'm coming from.

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 BBAP wrote:
 pretre wrote:
You can't take 6 units of doms in matched play.


The point isn't that you can spam Dominions, it's that you can spend the points on other stuff. One Repressor is two more SB-BSS units, or some HF Retributors, or 2x5 Arcoflagellants, or 9 Cadian Mortars, or a Hellhound, or... etc. Repressor mobility and CC shenanigans are fine, but I'm not convinced they're more worthwhile than more bodies in an army whose damage relies on rolling lots of dice.


I'm with you, after a few games Ive been scaling back my doms to stormbolters and flamers and immolators to save points and stuffing them in immolators, the advance move on immolators then cycling the contents of the tank and bringing a ton of flamers and small arms fire to the party as well as possibly bodying the other army into not being able to move onto objectives with chaff from the get go, looks to be a good way to go, a crusader + 3 exorcists are enough shoots for me. I just wish the immolator could fall back and shoot

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Camas, WA

 BBAP wrote:
 pretre wrote:
As a thought experiment I threw together a 2000pt army in Battlescribe using just the Sisters Codex with no vehicles at all. I got 120 models in a Brigade and a Battalion, with a Vanguard for Bloody Rose Repentia which you could dump in favour of another Battalion if you wanted to.

That sounds like a giant PITA to play and transport.


[quote[It's not that simple though, is it? I can't kill 3-9 Dominions with a single Volcano Lance hit.

Now you can save your VL for something else and kill the doms with practically anything else because they are just T3.


Nobody cares about 12 Boltgun shots. That's, what, 5 dead Guardsmen or something. If you catch them out of cover. People will care about 32 boltgun shots, which is what you get at 24" by dismounting the two units, dumping the Repressor, and bringing another two SB-BSS units with the points.

She who bails, fails.


I suppose if I'm running mono-dex Sisters I could see reasons to run Repressors, especially if I was running Arcos and Repentia as a CC threat (because both of these units need vehicles to even begin to be useful and you need to take 5-8 vehicles if you're taking any at all), but I'm not sure I'd do that. The more time I spend thinking about this the more convinced I become that mono-dex Sisters just don't have the tools to cover their own weaknesses, and the best thing to do is run them as part of a soup.

I'm running mono dex sisters. Discussion resolved.

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 pretre wrote:
Now you can save your VL for something else and kill the doms with practically anything else because they are just T3.


There's nothing else to shoot it at. That's the whole point. You've paid 604pts to kill 10 Sisters a turn. I pay 90pts for 3 Hospitallers and I can bring 3 of them back.

I'm running mono dex sisters. Discussion resolved.


Feel free to shuffle on, then.

- - - - - - -
   
Made in us
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St. Louis, Missouri USA

T3 models die to a stiff breeze. That's why you stick them in T7 vehicles that move fast and let you shoot out. I don't need 10 models at 24" shooting when I can have 5 do the same job because they're already 12" away while being protected.

 
   
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No, I don't think Pretre needs to "shuffle on", because this is a Sisters of Battle tactics thread, not a Not-Sisters of Battle tactics thread. While allies are a valid choice, not having allies is also a valid choice. If your advice for Sisters players is "don't play Sisters", you should probably shuffle off, yourself.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/23 00:33:08


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





 BBAP wrote:
 pretre wrote:
Now you can save your VL for something else and kill the doms with practically anything else because they are just T3.


There's nothing else to shoot it at. That's the whole point. You've paid 604pts to kill 10 Sisters a turn. I pay 90pts for 3 Hospitallers and I can bring 3 of them back.

I'm running mono dex sisters. Discussion resolved.


Feel free to shuffle on, then.


I'm playing mech sisters. Should I shuffle on as well?

I found that sisters in a repressor are T7 for while it's alive. 10 more foot sisters aren't. Guess which one marine bolters has a harder time killing at 24"?

How about the fact that foot sisters move 6", while a repressor moves 12"?

How about the fact that sisters in a repressor can shoot while the tank is engaged? Can foot sisters do that? Even if I buy ten more BBS sisters?
   
Made in ca
Stealthy Sanctus Slipping in His Blade






 BBAP wrote:

Nobody cares about 12 Boltgun shots. That's, what, 5 dead Guardsmen or something. If you catch them out of cover. People will care about 32 boltgun shots, which is what you get at 24" by dismounting the two units, dumping the Repressor, and bringing another two SB-BSS units with the points.


Or, you move the Repressor forward fire your six stormbolters inside and two on top within 12" for 32 S4 shots plus d6 heavy flamer hits for each Repressor in the pack. The mobility will get you on objectives, the T7 will keep your girls from showing you how fast your 3+ folds over your T3. Sisters have always been best mech'd up, nothing has changed that.

Soup is better without Sisters, that hasn't changed either. Good thing this isn't a soup tactics thread.


A ton of armies and a terrain habit...


 
   
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Denver, CO, USA

I love this talk. Getting me thinking outside the box.

Has anyone tried Holy Trinity on a 15x BSS?

   
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Not had a chance to try HT on a 15 girls squad. Theyre usually dead or reduced to a handful of models by the time they get in range of anything.
Can attest to squads of 5-10 girls using it as the transport lets them live long enough to use it effectively.
   
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 MacPhail wrote:
Has anyone tried Holy Trinity on a 15x BSS?
Tried it waaaay back with a 20 man chaos marine squad and VotLW. It didn't really get the job done.
Though with their new rules that's 36 bolters and two heavy weapons at 24" with +1 to wound.
   
Made in gb
Missionary On A Mission






Rather than answer the same 4 objections for the 18th time here's a list I ran up while I was walking the dog earlier. It's an extreme example rather than a realistic build, but it demonstrates my point.

Sacred Rose Battalion, "The Loyal 17" - 5CP, 18PL

Canoness; Book, SB
Canoness; SB
3x5 BSS; 3xSB

Sacred Rose Brigade, "The Loyal 66" - 12CP, 68PL

2x Canoness; SB
6x5 BSS; 3xSB
3x5 Doms; 5xSB
3x5 Retributors; 4xHB 1xSB

1213pts

Features:

- Sacred Rose: 5+ Overwatch, lose 1 model max to Morale (allows Doms and even ordinary BSS to act as a CC shield)
- Book of St. Lucius: 9" Canoness Auras (RR1H everywhere, 5++ everywhere with Indomitable Faith)
- Wants to deploy clumped to maximise Boltgun range, which means 6" Vessels will hit everyone if you deploy your Canoness centrally (that's synchronicity, homes)
- 11 Faith Points (Hand + Aegis/ Divine Guidance for everyone every turn for 5 turns)
- 20 Command Points (IIRC Strats are restricted per phase, so it's Vessels move + Vessels shooting every turn for 3 turns; otherwise it's something else)
- 1213 points. If you're playing at 1250 you can throw in a Dialogus. If you're playing at 2k you can throw in Celestine, her Geminae, some Cadian Mortars and a Superheavy. And a Dialogus.


This is an extreme example, but it's the kind of thing I have in my head when I say I find transports unappealing. I can't understand why people are paying 2000pts for a couple of handfuls of models when I can pay 1250pts for this kind of thing. Personally I reckon this army could probably tussle with 2000pts of mono-dex mech Sisters and not disgrace itself; it probably won't win the mission because to do that it needs long range shooting *or* mobility, and it has neither, but I reckon I'll have more models at the end of the game than you do.

PS:
I'm going to make a prediction here. In a few months time, once the meta has had time to digest the new Genestealer Cults Codex, you're going to see a lot more footslogging Sacred Rose Sisters in Castellan armies. People need bubblewrap that isn't worried about autopistols and Hand Flamers and is capable of completely wiping 10-model units with its small arms. Catachans aren't going to cut it. The Loyal 66 (or a similar formation) will step up where the Guardsmen fail.
I'mna come back here in 6 months, and if I'm right I expect to be proclaimed a Living Saint of the Adepta Sororitas.

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And then a single tank comes along and kills them all because they have exactly zero anti-tank.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/24 17:53:03


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
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 Giantwalkingchair wrote:


Exorcist:

Ladies and gentlemen, the Exorcist is in the house! Literally the Sororitas only long range weapon. This Classic unit sports a freaking pipe organ that shoots freaking missiles! So awesome!
Its buff to d6 Damage has fixed this unit!
I have had tremendous results with this iconic tank; from destroying unwounded vehicles in a single volley to a single Exorcist pummeling a Riptide down to 2 wounds in a single volley.
I cannot overstate how immensly satisfied I am with the Exorcist now.[/SPOILER]



They still need to be give indirect fire, then they shall sing true hymns and praises to the Emperor!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/24 18:12:29


 
   
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Camas, WA

 Melissia wrote:
And then a single tank comes along and kills them all because they have exactly zero anti-tank.
I think you misspelled 'knight'.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 BBAP wrote:
This is an extreme example, but it's the kind of thing I have in my head when I say I find transports unappealing. I can't understand why people are paying 2000pts for a couple of handfuls of models when I can pay 1250pts for this kind of thing. Personally I reckon this army could probably tussle with 2000pts of mono-dex mech Sisters and not disgrace itself; it probably won't win the mission because to do that it needs long range shooting *or* mobility, and it has neither, but I reckon I'll have more models at the end of the game than you do.

PS:
I'm going to make a prediction here. In a few months time, once the meta has had time to digest the new Genestealer Cults Codex, you're going to see a lot more footslogging Sacred Rose Sisters in Castellan armies. People need bubblewrap that isn't worried about autopistols and Hand Flamers and is capable of completely wiping 10-model units with its small arms. Catachans aren't going to cut it. The Loyal 66 (or a similar formation) will step up where the Guardsmen fail.
I'mna come back here in 6 months, and if I'm right I expect to be proclaimed a Living Saint of the Adepta Sororitas.

I get it, it's a 'just add castellan' army. I also think that overwatch is probably going to win out over the other Orders, so I agree there.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/24 18:18:39


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 BBAP wrote:
Rather than answer the same 4 objections for the 18th time here's a list I ran up while I was walking the dog earlier. It's an extreme example rather than a realistic build, but it demonstrates my point.

Sacred Rose Battalion, "The Loyal 17" - 5CP, 18PL

Canoness; Book, SB
Canoness; SB
3x5 BSS; 3xSB

Sacred Rose Brigade, "The Loyal 66" - 12CP, 68PL

2x Canoness; SB
6x5 BSS; 3xSB
3x5 Doms; 5xSB
3x5 Retributors; 4xHB 1xSB

1213pts

Features:

- Sacred Rose: 5+ Overwatch, lose 1 model max to Morale (allows Doms and even ordinary BSS to act as a CC shield)
- Book of St. Lucius: 9" Canoness Auras (RR1H everywhere, 5++ everywhere with Indomitable Faith)
- Wants to deploy clumped to maximise Boltgun range, which means 6" Vessels will hit everyone if you deploy your Canoness centrally (that's synchronicity, homes)
- 11 Faith Points (Hand + Aegis/ Divine Guidance for everyone every turn for 5 turns)
- 20 Command Points (IIRC Strats are restricted per phase, so it's Vessels move + Vessels shooting every turn for 3 turns; otherwise it's something else)
- 1213 points. If you're playing at 1250 you can throw in a Dialogus. If you're playing at 2k you can throw in Celestine, her Geminae, some Cadian Mortars and a Superheavy. And a Dialogus.


This is an extreme example, but it's the kind of thing I have in my head when I say I find transports unappealing. I can't understand why people are paying 2000pts for a couple of handfuls of models when I can pay 1250pts for this kind of thing. Personally I reckon this army could probably tussle with 2000pts of mono-dex mech Sisters and not disgrace itself; it probably won't win the mission because to do that it needs long range shooting *or* mobility, and it has neither, but I reckon I'll have more models at the end of the game than you do.

PS:
I'm going to make a prediction here. In a few months time, once the meta has had time to digest the new Genestealer Cults Codex, you're going to see a lot more footslogging Sacred Rose Sisters in Castellan armies. People need bubblewrap that isn't worried about autopistols and Hand Flamers and is capable of completely wiping 10-model units with its small arms. Catachans aren't going to cut it. The Loyal 66 (or a similar formation) will step up where the Guardsmen fail.
I'mna come back here in 6 months, and if I'm right I expect to be proclaimed a Living Saint of the Adepta Sororitas.


You need 3x elite slots in a Brigade.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/25 15:13:28


 
   
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USA

 pretre wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
And then a single tank comes along and kills them all because they have exactly zero anti-tank.
I think you misspelled 'knight'.
True, but like even just leman russ punishers are going to annihilate squads at a time for equivalent points.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in gb
Missionary On A Mission






Rynner wrote:You need 3x elite slots in a bridge.


There's 3 Hospitallers in there that I forgot to list. It's still 1213pts.

Melissia wrote:And then a single tank comes along and kills them all because they have exactly zero anti-tank.


Melissia wrote:True, but like even just leman russ punishers are going to annihilate squads at a time for equivalent points.


I played a lot of Genestealer Cults in 7th Edition and was quite active in the tactica there. We had this concept of "overkill", which is basically that if someone fires 150pts of Leman Russ at your 50pts of Acolytes and kills them, you win. They were also obliged to wipe squads or otherwise prevent them RttSing, because if they didn't you could return D6 models to the squad when they came back out of ongoing reserve.

The same principles apply here. Fire your 150pt Leman Russ at my 5 Sisters, kill 3 of them, I return two next turn via Hospitallers and AoFs and I win. I win if I only return 1 via Hospitallers. I win if I return 0 too, because you've fired 150pts of Leman Russ to kill 18pts of Sisters. If you wipe the squad I still win because you've fired 150+pts of tank and killed 50pts of Sisters. Like Sun Tzu once said: do not seek to choose the path to favourable point value trades, choose so that all paths lead to favourable point value trades.

Another similarity between this list and 7th Ed GSC is that to kill Leman Russes you must roll a tonne of hit-on-3+ S4 dice at them. The GSC had Rends, that's true, but they also had to get into CC to roll their dice. I can dump the same number of dice (60+) into your Leman Russ from 24" away.

pretre wrote:I think you misspelled 'knight'.


See above. And further above, when I was talking about Castellans. You pay 350+pts to kill 10 models a turn; I'll take that.

I get it, it's a 'just add castellan' army. I also think that overwatch is probably going to win out over the other Orders, so I agree there.


It's definitely going to. There's nothing in 40k the GSC can't beat in a fistfight (up to and including Knights) so your BR/ Catachan Strength bonuses are a waste of time, but their reliance on close combat to get any work done means they're dinted by solid Overwatch. Hit-on-5+ SB/ Boltgun Overwatch is probably the best low-cost Overwatch available to Imperials at the moment. Sisters can do that cheap, and have the added advantage of a Stratagem giving a 4+ save against psychic powers, which guards against Mass Hypnosis (psychic power that prevents a unit firing Overwatch, amongst other things). Sacred Rose Sisters are also useful in a lot of other situations too, which is a nice bonus.

You heard it here first, folks. In the Sisters tactica thread.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/25 09:12:08


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I'm fairly sure a leman Russ is going to kill an entire squad of five with just it's battle cannon. It's hull and sponsons will kill a bunch more. So, sure, 300 points in russ killed 150 points in sisters, but at the same time, they can do that every turn until you cross the board. So if crossing the board takes you three turns, then it means that eight Russ have killed 12 squads a turn for three turns. That's every squad you just fielded on the first turn.
   
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USA

I'd be a little surprised if a leman russ punisher would kill ONLY 3 Sisters in a single turn. Even if it moved, that's 29 shots.

Also, a Leman Russ killing half its value in points every turn is a pretty good return on said russ. And you have no answer for it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/25 15:53:08


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





St. Louis, Missouri USA

 Mmmpi wrote:
I'm fairly sure a leman Russ is going to kill an entire squad of five with just it's battle cannon. It's hull and sponsons will kill a bunch more. So, sure, 300 points in russ killed 150 points in sisters, but at the same time, they can do that every turn until you cross the board. So if crossing the board takes you three turns, then it means that eight Russ have killed 12 squads a turn for three turns. That's every squad you just fielded on the first turn.
Yup. Power armor means nothing in 8th edition. That's the issue with Marines. 3 LR tank commanders with punishers just killed your entire army shooting twice top of 1. 1 castellan is going to easily kill 3 or 4 squads of 5 man sisters. We don't work well as a horde army. We don't have the numbers.

 
   
Made in gb
Missionary On A Mission






 Mmmpi wrote:
I'm fairly sure a leman Russ is going to kill an entire squad of five with just it's battle cannon. It's hull and sponsons will kill a bunch more. So, sure, 300 points in russ killed 150 points in sisters, but at the same time, they can do that every turn until you cross the board. So if crossing the board takes you three turns, then it means that eight Russ have killed 12 squads a turn for three turns. That's every squad you just fielded on the first turn.


I'm going to ignore the fact this list is (a) impossible to run with sponsons at 1250pts in Matched Play no matter what Leman Russ variant you use and (b) obviously tailored to take on mine and tremendously weak against pretty much anything else.

Leaving that aside, Intuition-hammer suggests the numbers aren't with you to the extent you seem to believe. Even if I give you clear LoS across the table and 12 shots a turn with every turret, there are more scenarios where 2 Leman Russes with HB Sponsons (which is 332pts, not 300) **don't** kill 5 Sisters a turn each than there are scenarios where they do. If I'm the Guard player I'd plan on 10-20 dead Sisters a turn realistically.

That said, I don't like theoryhammer so I'm going to run a little experiment. I'll come back to this later once I'm done.

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Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





St. Louis, Missouri USA

 BBAP wrote:
 Mmmpi wrote:
I'm fairly sure a leman Russ is going to kill an entire squad of five with just it's battle cannon. It's hull and sponsons will kill a bunch more. So, sure, 300 points in russ killed 150 points in sisters, but at the same time, they can do that every turn until you cross the board. So if crossing the board takes you three turns, then it means that eight Russ have killed 12 squads a turn for three turns. That's every squad you just fielded on the first turn.


I'm going to ignore the fact this list is (a) impossible to run with sponsons at 1250pts in Matched Play no matter what Leman Russ variant you use and (b) obviously tailored to take on mine and tremendously weak against pretty much anything else.

Leaving that aside, Intuition-hammer suggests the numbers aren't with you to the extent you seem to believe. Even if I give you clear LoS across the table and 12 shots a turn with every turret, there are more scenarios where 2 Leman Russes with HB Sponsons (which is 332pts, not 300) **don't** kill 5 Sisters a turn each than there are scenarios where they do. If I'm the Guard player I'd plan on 10-20 dead Sisters a turn realistically.

That said, I don't like theoryhammer so I'm going to run a little experiment. I'll come back to this later once I'm done.
The current IG hotness is tank commanders with punishers and plasma sponsons, or if you're running LRBTs you take conquerors (if you can find them). With Orks being decent, and prevalent in the meta, anti-horde is still a priority. This puts sisters in boots in a bad position.

Here's some math.
Tank commander with Punisher.
20 shots
15.5 hits
10.4 wounds
3.5 dead sisters.
you have a 50/50 chance to not lose the 5th in morale.

Tank commander with battle cannon
3.5 shots
2.7 hits
2.3 wounds
2 dead sisters

That's only the primary guns firing once. So 3 punisher tanks can statistically easily kill 6x 5 man sisters squads a turn. Since we're keen on points returns, that's 450 points gaining 300+ back a turn.

 
   
 
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