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Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote:
Hi all,

So one of my LGS is holding a 1250 pt tournament using LGS simplified missions. I've been considering running the following:

BLOODY ROSE BATTALION:

Canoness- inferno pistol, Blade of Admonition, Righteous Rage- 56

Saint Celestine- 160

5 Battle Sisters- 2 storm bolters, Sister Superior w. storm bolter- 51

5 Battle Sisters- 2 storm bolters, Sister Superior w. storm bolter- 51

5 Battle Sisters- 2 storm bolters, Sister Superior w. storm bolter- 51

Preacher- chainsword- 25

8 Arco-Flagellants- 120

2 Geminae Superia- 50

7 Seraphim- 2 pairs of inferno pistols- 105

5 Retributors- 4 heavy bolters- 85

Exorcist- 125

Immolator- Immolation flamers- 98

Immolator- Immolation flamers- 98

Immolator- Immolation flamers- 98

Rhino- 2 storm bolters- 77

​

TOTAL: 1250

The general idea is, my mobile stuff zooms around to grab objectives or shoot stuff down as needed, Arcos are there to assault or counter-punch, Seraphim will go vehicle hunting, screen Celestine and/or tie up big nasties as needed; Exos and Rets are obviously there for supporting fire. The Canoness will go after the meanest enemy character or monster or vehicle she can find and chop it to bits.

Any thoughts on this list? In particular, I'm debating the following:

-Going for a standard Indomitable Belief Canoness instead with either the Book or the Brazier (or, for an interesting change of pace, trying the Wrath of the Emperor)

-Dropping something in favour of another Exorcist, although 2 Exorcists plus Celestine at 1250 points feels cheesy.

-Maybe using Dominions instead of Seraphim, and/or heavy flamer Rets

​

I am open to suggestions. I have no idea what I might be facing, although I know that there are two Blood Angel and one Chaos regulars there.

Like others, I'm not fully convinced Celestine is worth the effort in that list. I'd be tempted to drop her, the twins and the preacher for a missionary Melta Doms and a Brazier carrying Mistress. Indom Cannoness/Celestine feels like a combo that's awkward with a Mech Infantry list where as the Doms or even Exorcist play to your strength as a mech army while giving you Anti Vehicle firepower.
I'd also agree that Seraphim are a better deep strike threat now with a couple of hand flamers to help clean out soft targets.
Finally, as amusing as running Wrath of the Emperor might be to you, I'd still like to ask you to not do it, please.

I haven't played a game since LVO. I haven't unpacked my bag or even looked at a model yet. But I have a GT next weekend! Odds are I'll be taking my LVO list and it will be listed as Soup.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The more 100% sisters lists I make the less I want to play sisters.

Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote:
Hi all,

So one of my LGS is holding a 1250 pt tournament using LGS simplified missions. I've been considering running the following:

BLOODY ROSE BATTALION:

Canoness- inferno pistol, Blade of Admonition, Righteous Rage- 56

Saint Celestine- 160

5 Battle Sisters- 2 storm bolters, Sister Superior w. storm bolter- 51

5 Battle Sisters- 2 storm bolters, Sister Superior w. storm bolter- 51

5 Battle Sisters- 2 storm bolters, Sister Superior w. storm bolter- 51

Preacher- chainsword- 25

8 Arco-Flagellants- 120

2 Geminae Superia- 50

7 Seraphim- 2 pairs of inferno pistols- 105

5 Retributors- 4 heavy bolters- 85

Exorcist- 125

Immolator- Immolation flamers- 98

Immolator- Immolation flamers- 98

Immolator- Immolation flamers- 98

Rhino- 2 storm bolters- 77

​

TOTAL: 1250

The general idea is, my mobile stuff zooms around to grab objectives or shoot stuff down as needed, Arcos are there to assault or counter-punch, Seraphim will go vehicle hunting, screen Celestine and/or tie up big nasties as needed; Exos and Rets are obviously there for supporting fire. The Canoness will go after the meanest enemy character or monster or vehicle she can find and chop it to bits.

Any thoughts on this list? In particular, I'm debating the following:

-Going for a standard Indomitable Belief Canoness instead with either the Book or the Brazier (or, for an interesting change of pace, trying the Wrath of the Emperor)

-Dropping something in favour of another Exorcist, although 2 Exorcists plus Celestine at 1250 points feels cheesy.

-Maybe using Dominions instead of Seraphim, and/or heavy flamer Rets

​

I am open to suggestions. I have no idea what I might be facing, although I know that there are two Blood Angel and one Chaos regulars there.

Uriah is a MUST in that list. Find a way to get it.

Geminae are not really necessary at this points level. I would skip them. there wont be enough arrayed against you that will actually be able to hit her and kill her twice.

I'd recommend melta dominion over the heavy Bolter retributors if points are an issue. Add the combi-flamer to them in this small of a points contest because it really could matter.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

No, i'm saying b.c i dont like ITC and it doesnt fit SoB or what i want to play for SOB, and if im not having fun with SOB in ITC, then i wont play them, i'll play something else, like Ynnari that is really good for ITC and i can still play the models i like without giving up secondaries easily.

If ITC didnt have so many stupid kill point secondaries i would play more sob for them. When i can make fun lists for Aeldari that each secondary can only max to 3 instead of 4, why take my 2ndary army sob when they give up more points?

I'm now 17-5, 10-1 with the new iteration of the list. Almost all ITC games. I think Sisters of Battle do fine.

Let me give you some food for thought on this and you are free to ignore it if you don't like it: It is actually better for you to let your opponent have more points as long as it does not cost you the game. Your Strength of Schedule will look far better if you win without blowing them out than if you do.

So as a practical matter, you will want to consider that because if its a tie for say...3rd place, your SoS wins it for you. And if there are no ties, your SoS is still great.

I have taken 2nd at a GT with Sisters within recent memory and so I think some people are radically underestimating what can be done with them.

The game is really about how many of their points you get, not what you give up. you only have to win by 1.

Just food for thought.

The other thought I'd offer is that winning the entire thing is fun and gratifying and validating and all that. But how much more do you think I felt validated taking second with Sisters at a GT than i would taking Ynnari for second place? Frankly, if you have a sense of personal pride about your actual Generalship, this appeals to you. It certainly does me. No one gets to point ta my codex or the latest and greatest notlist list and tell me that's how I won. =) Simply put, that would be a lie. We all know what we're up against as Sisters of Battle but the best thing we get for playing at the ITC level is the satisfaction that we did it without the Ynnari or the Castellans of the world.

I think that's pretty awesome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Local club here has officially started doing ITC tournaments. I'd be going with sisters, but due to several factors (time, money, not liking ITC) I don't go. Unfortunate but that's just my current chapter in life.
Be good to see more SoB rep in those rankings.
.

Indeed it would. Go to one or two! We need the Sisters of Battle out there BEFORE these band wagoneers start in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 deviantduck wrote:

The more 100% sisters lists I make the less I want to play sisters.

Really? I love playing them. The look is great and I'm really digging my list.

 Jancoran wrote:

Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote:
Hi all,

So one of my LGS is holding a 1250 pt tournament using LGS simplified missions. I've been considering running the following:

BLOODY ROSE BATTALION:

Canoness- inferno pistol, Blade of Admonition, Righteous Rage- 56

Saint Celestine- 160

5 Battle Sisters- 2 storm bolters, Sister Superior w. storm bolter- 51

5 Battle Sisters- 2 storm bolters, Sister Superior w. storm bolter- 51

5 Battle Sisters- 2 storm bolters, Sister Superior w. storm bolter- 51

Preacher- chainsword- 25

8 Arco-Flagellants- 120

2 Geminae Superia- 50

7 Seraphim- 2 pairs of inferno pistols- 105

5 Retributors- 4 heavy bolters- 85

Exorcist- 125

Immolator- Immolation flamers- 98

Immolator- Immolation flamers- 98

Immolator- Immolation flamers- 98

Rhino- 2 storm bolters- 77

​

TOTAL: 1250

The general idea is, my mobile stuff zooms around to grab objectives or shoot stuff down as needed, Arcos are there to assault or counter-punch, Seraphim will go vehicle hunting, screen Celestine and/or tie up big nasties as needed; Exos and Rets are obviously there for supporting fire. The Canoness will go after the meanest enemy character or monster or vehicle she can find and chop it to bits.

Any thoughts on this list? In particular, I'm debating the following:

-Going for a standard Indomitable Belief Canoness instead with either the Book or the Brazier (or, for an interesting change of pace, trying the Wrath of the Emperor)

-Dropping something in favour of another Exorcist, although 2 Exorcists plus Celestine at 1250 points feels cheesy.

-Maybe using Dominions instead of Seraphim, and/or heavy flamer Rets

​

I am open to suggestions. I have no idea what I might be facing, although I know that there are two Blood Angel and one Chaos regulars there.

Uriah is a MUST in that list. Find a way to get it.

Geminae are not really necessary at this points level. I would skip them. there wont be enough arrayed against you that will actually be able to hit her and kill her twice.

I'd recommend melta dominion over the heavy Bolter retributors if points are an issue. Add the combi-flamer to them in this small of a points contest because it really could matter.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

No, i'm saying b.c i dont like ITC and it doesnt fit SoB or what i want to play for SOB, and if im not having fun with SOB in ITC, then i wont play them, i'll play something else, like Ynnari that is really good for ITC and i can still play the models i like without giving up secondaries easily.

If ITC didnt have so many stupid kill point secondaries i would play more sob for them. When i can make fun lists for Aeldari that each secondary can only max to 3 instead of 4, why take my 2ndary army sob when they give up more points?

I'm now 17-5, 10-1 with the new iteration of the list. Almost all ITC games. I think Sisters of Battle do fine.

Let me give you some food for thought on this and you are free to ignore it if you don't like it: It is actually better for you to let your opponent have more points as long as it does not cost you the game. Your Strength of Schedule will look far better if you win without blowing them out than if you do.

So as a practical matter, you will want to consider that because if its a tie for say...3rd place, your SoS wins it for you. And if there are no ties, your SoS is still great.

I have taken 2nd at a GT with Sisters within recent memory and so I think some people are radically underestimating what can be done with them.

The game is really about how many of their points you get, not what you give up. you only have to win by 1.

Just food for thought.

The other thought I'd offer is that winning the entire thing is fun and gratifying and validating and all that. But how much more do you think I felt validated taking second with Sisters at a GT than i would taking Ynnari for second place? Frankly, if you have a sense of personal pride about your actual Generalship, this appeals to you. It certainly does me. No one gets to point ta my codex or the latest and greatest notlist list and tell me that's how I won. =) Simply put, that would be a lie. We all know what we're up against as Sisters of Battle but the best thing we get for playing at the ITC level is the satisfaction that we did it without the Ynnari or the Castellans of the world.

I think that's pretty awesome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Local club here has officially started doing ITC tournaments. I'd be going with sisters, but due to several factors (time, money, not liking ITC) I don't go. Unfortunate but that's just my current chapter in life.
Be good to see more SoB rep in those rankings.
.

Indeed it would. Go to one or two! We need the Sisters of Battle out there BEFORE these band wagoneers start in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 deviantduck wrote:

The more 100% sisters lists I make the less I want to play sisters.

Really? I love playing them. The look is great and I'm really digging my list.

Its not about winning, its about having fun, if i lose all my games but had fun i dont care. Current SoB and ITC rules (A rules set i already dont like) has put me off sob completely.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Its not about winning, its about having fun, if i lose all my games but had fun i dont care. Current SoB and ITC rules (A rules set i already dont like) has put me off sob completely.

Well the ITC has very few rules that aren't normal matched play. Terrain basically is about it.

So I'm unclear what rule set you mean. Do you just not like the terrain rule for ruins?

Or do you mean the missions?

Missions for reference: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ltQMdeDqYRXOhvdYT3dtUSji3AISvZRM8gDlhOXDaF8/edit

 Jancoran wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Its not about winning, its about having fun, if i lose all my games but had fun i dont care. Current SoB and ITC rules (A rules set i already dont like) has put me off sob completely.

Well the ITC has very few rules that aren't normal matched play. Terrain basically is about it.

So I'm unclear what rule set you mean. Do you just not like the terrain rule for ruins?

Or do you mean the missions?

Missions for reference: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ltQMdeDqYRXOhvdYT3dtUSji3AISvZRM8gDlhOXDaF8/edit

I mean FLG (front line gaming) ITC rules, Kill more, Hold more, Reaper, Butchers Bill, Head hunter, etc.. Im not going to go into it on a SoB post, but i have strong fillings against it and how imbalance it is and how many units it makes unplayable and it locks in a certain meta.

And that is what happens for my SoB, i will lose every game with the playstyle i like for SoB b.c i will give up Kill more, Butchers Bill, Reaper, every game at max points and not be able to get as many VP's. My lists work great for all other missions and events, If i only play 1 ITC event a month or every other month, and i can get all my other games that work for SoB, why play ITC with them when i have a army thats better for it?

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Its not about winning, its about having fun, if i lose all my games but had fun i dont care. Current SoB and ITC rules (A rules set i already dont like) has put me off sob completely.

Well the ITC has very few rules that aren't normal matched play. Terrain basically is about it.

So I'm unclear what rule set you mean. Do you just not like the terrain rule for ruins?

Or do you mean the missions?

Missions for reference: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ltQMdeDqYRXOhvdYT3dtUSji3AISvZRM8gDlhOXDaF8/edit

I mean FLG (front line gaming) ITC rules, Kill more, Hold more, Reaper, Butchers Bill, Head hunter, etc.. Im not going to go into it on a SoB post, but i have strong fillings against it and how imbalance it is and how many units it makes unplayable and it locks in a certain meta.

And that is what happens for my SoB, i will lose every game with the playstyle i like for SoB b.c i will give up Kill more, Butchers Bill, Reaper, every game at max points and not be able to get as many VP's. My lists work great for all other missions and events, If i only play 1 ITC event a month or every other month, and i can get all my other games that work for SoB, why play ITC with them when i have a army thats better for it?

So the missions, as I mentioned, are your issue.

Well, I answered the question as to why to do it. Sisters can absolutely play in the ITC meta. My list for example takes Engineer points easily. It also takes Big Game Hunter realtively easily and Marked for Death easily. I can max out secondaries with Sisters QUITE often if theenemy has 4 vehicles/Monsters. If they don't, I might still take it.

as for what it gives up? Reaper is possible but most opponents won't. The list looks like its good for Reaper though. On paper. Opponents get Kingslayer pretty much automatically but thats fine. After that the decisions get harder. Butchers Bill is difficult at best against me until later rounds but it isn't a bad choice.

The thing is, I want the opponent to do well. I just need to ALSO do well. And that really comes down to winning the Primaries sicne I am rarely concerned with getting the secondaries.

Ynnari is low hanging fruit. If ALL you want to do it win, it's a good choice. but if you wanna win and REALLY feel like you had more to do with it than GW, I'd go Sisters.

I get taking the smart choice to ITC events, and no one would blame you for doing it. But they are about 30-60 days from being nerfed. You'll have a decision to make i guess at that point.

My Ynnari ins't a low hanging fruit for me, i play with the Yncarne and Wyches. My Ynnari wont be effect by any nerf, if anything my list will be buffed.

For SoB tho, i cant stand playing them in ITC, it doesnt matter if you like it, i dont. I play 100's of games a year, yes 100's. (we have a 24/7 gaming club and i go 2-3x a week, sometimes multi games a day). Im at the point its all about fun, ITC is so heavily modified list tailoring that its not fun for me.

As for what is fun for sob for me? Hordes of MSU all with specialist weapons (3-5) i have 4 SB units, 2 MG units, 2 flamer units, 3 HB units, 3 mini Seraphim units, a large unit of Arco, 5-6 characters, and a few couple vehicles. i love spreadig them out and making a net on the table limiting movements, and saturating the threat to the point it doesnt matter what they shoot, and i win on placement and movement, more like a chess match, its very fun.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
My Ynnari ins't a low hanging fruit for me, i play with the Yncarne and Wyches. My Ynnari wont be effect by any nerf, if anything my list will be buffed.

For SoB tho, i cant stand playing them in ITC, it doesnt matter if you like it, i dont. I play 100's of games a year, yes 100's. (we have a 24/7 gaming club and i go 2-3x a week, sometimes multi games a day). Im at the point its all about fun, ITC is so heavily modified list tailoring that its not fun for me.

As for what is fun for sob for me? Hordes of MSU all with specialist weapons (3-5) i have 4 SB units, 2 MG units, 2 flamer units, 3 HB units, 3 mini Seraphim units, a large unit of Arco, 5-6 characters, and a few couple vehicles. i love spreadig them out and making a net on the table limiting movements, and saturating the threat to the point it doesnt matter what they shoot, and i win on placement and movement, more like a chess match, its very fun.

I play a similarly large number of games so i understand.

And we sound similar in our methods. I find no fault with that. I have a very large number of models. 75 sisters, 6 arcos, 6 characters, three tanks and 15 seraphim (I think thats right). I am playing 19 units so... yeah.

Yeah, my normal list doesnt have MG/Flamers anymore ive been plaing..

Valorous Heart brigade
3 Canoness (2 with relic)
6 BSS: x3 SB
Preacher
Dialogus x2 (1 with Relic)
x9 Arcos
3 Doms x9, x5 SB
3 Rets x5, x4 HB
2 Repressors
2 Rhinos

Valorous Heart Outrider
Celestine
3 Seraphim, x5, x2sets of Inferno

6 characters, 4 vehicles, 96 additional infantry in 16 units (total units 27), 16 CP, 3 relics

Starting with a 4++/6+++ for turn 1 and maybe cover strat, i have never lost more than 2 units turn 1, and its normally a seraphim squad and a Repressor, everyone hates those units in my area. TI try to split my units up, Seraphim+Celestine and some Arcos, then everything else, spreading out just enough to stop DSing, flyers, movements, teleports, etc.., the extra Dialogus and a canoness helps with that a lot.

 Jancoran wrote:

Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote:
Hi all,

So one of my LGS is holding a 1250 pt tournament using LGS simplified missions. I've been considering running the following:

BLOODY ROSE BATTALION:

Canoness- inferno pistol, Blade of Admonition, Righteous Rage- 56

Saint Celestine- 160

5 Battle Sisters- 2 storm bolters, Sister Superior w. storm bolter- 51

5 Battle Sisters- 2 storm bolters, Sister Superior w. storm bolter- 51

5 Battle Sisters- 2 storm bolters, Sister Superior w. storm bolter- 51

Preacher- chainsword- 25

8 Arco-Flagellants- 120

2 Geminae Superia- 50

7 Seraphim- 2 pairs of inferno pistols- 105

5 Retributors- 4 heavy bolters- 85

Exorcist- 125

Immolator- Immolation flamers- 98

Immolator- Immolation flamers- 98

Immolator- Immolation flamers- 98

Rhino- 2 storm bolters- 77

​

TOTAL: 1250

The general idea is, my mobile stuff zooms around to grab objectives or shoot stuff down as needed, Arcos are there to assault or counter-punch, Seraphim will go vehicle hunting, screen Celestine and/or tie up big nasties as needed; Exos and Rets are obviously there for supporting fire. The Canoness will go after the meanest enemy character or monster or vehicle she can find and chop it to bits.

Any thoughts on this list? In particular, I'm debating the following:

-Going for a standard Indomitable Belief Canoness instead with either the Book or the Brazier (or, for an interesting change of pace, trying the Wrath of the Emperor)

-Dropping something in favour of another Exorcist, although 2 Exorcists plus Celestine at 1250 points feels cheesy.

-Maybe using Dominions instead of Seraphim, and/or heavy flamer Rets

​

I am open to suggestions. I have no idea what I might be facing, although I know that there are two Blood Angel and one Chaos regulars there.

Uriah is a MUST in that list. Find a way to get it.

Geminae are not really necessary at this points level. I would skip them. there wont be enough arrayed against you that will actually be able to hit her and kill her twice.

I'd recommend melta dominion over the heavy Bolter retributors if points are an issue. Add the combi-flamer to them in this small of a points contest because it really could matter.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

No, i'm saying b.c i dont like ITC and it doesnt fit SoB or what i want to play for SOB, and if im not having fun with SOB in ITC, then i wont play them, i'll play something else, like Ynnari that is really good for ITC and i can still play the models i like without giving up secondaries easily.

If ITC didnt have so many stupid kill point secondaries i would play more sob for them. When i can make fun lists for Aeldari that each secondary can only max to 3 instead of 4, why take my 2ndary army sob when they give up more points?

I'm now 17-5, 10-1 with the new iteration of the list. Almost all ITC games. I think Sisters of Battle do fine.

Let me give you some food for thought on this and you are free to ignore it if you don't like it: It is actually better for you to let your opponent have more points as long as it does not cost you the game. Your Strength of Schedule will look far better if you win without blowing them out than if you do.

So as a practical matter, you will want to consider that because if its a tie for say...3rd place, your SoS wins it for you. And if there are no ties, your SoS is still great.

I have taken 2nd at a GT with Sisters within recent memory and so I think some people are radically underestimating what can be done with them.

The game is really about how many of their points you get, not what you give up. you only have to win by 1.

Just food for thought.

The other thought I'd offer is that winning the entire thing is fun and gratifying and validating and all that. But how much more do you think I felt validated taking second with Sisters at a GT than i would taking Ynnari for second place? Frankly, if you have a sense of personal pride about your actual Generalship, this appeals to you. It certainly does me. No one gets to point ta my codex or the latest and greatest notlist list and tell me that's how I won. =) Simply put, that would be a lie. We all know what we're up against as Sisters of Battle but the best thing we get for playing at the ITC level is the satisfaction that we did it without the Ynnari or the Castellans of the world.

I think that's pretty awesome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Local club here has officially started doing ITC tournaments. I'd be going with sisters, but due to several factors (time, money, not liking ITC) I don't go. Unfortunate but that's just my current chapter in life.
Be good to see more SoB rep in those rankings.
.

Indeed it would. Go to one or two! We need the Sisters of Battle out there BEFORE these band wagoneers start in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 deviantduck wrote:

The more 100% sisters lists I make the less I want to play sisters.

Really? I love playing them. The look is great and I'm really digging my list.

They're a crazy boring army to play. There's no tricks, no combos, nothing interesting at all in the beta codex. You just camp objectives and hope your opponent can't kill you fast enough.

I mean this with no offense intended but your list is ESPECIALLY dull. Camp objectives, go 3++ when it looks like your opponent is focusing fire, be immune to morale, shave off his heavy firepower with hail mary exorcists rolls, and hope he bounces off of everything else. Sure, you can win just tons of locals games(and probably do reasonably well in larger events to) but at the cost of making the game as un-interactive as possible. If you do your movement phase correctly, nothing else you or your opponent does matters at all.

The beta codex is boring honestly.

ERJAK wrote:

They're a crazy boring army to play. There's no tricks, no combos, nothing interesting at all in the beta codex. You just camp objectives and hope your opponent can't kill you fast enough.

I mean this with no offense intended but your list is ESPECIALLY dull. Camp objectives, go 3++ when it looks like your opponent is focusing fire, be immune to morale, shave off his heavy firepower with hail mary exorcists rolls, and hope he bounces off of everything else. Sure, you can win just tons of locals games(and probably do reasonably well in larger events to) but at the cost of making the game as un-interactive as possible. If you do your movement phase correctly, nothing else you or your opponent does matters at all.

I don't find myself particularly bored. Also: I don't argue with success nearly as often as other people seem to want to. A FUNDAMENTALLY sound army is what I play. If people are bored, I am fine with that. I'm not the thought police. They can fel however they wanna'.

And its sort of the point to make an effective army.

 Jancoran wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

They're a crazy boring army to play. There's no tricks, no combos, nothing interesting at all in the beta codex. You just camp objectives and hope your opponent can't kill you fast enough.

I mean this with no offense intended but your list is ESPECIALLY dull. Camp objectives, go 3++ when it looks like your opponent is focusing fire, be immune to morale, shave off his heavy firepower with hail mary exorcists rolls, and hope he bounces off of everything else. Sure, you can win just tons of locals games(and probably do reasonably well in larger events to) but at the cost of making the game as un-interactive as possible. If you do your movement phase correctly, nothing else you or your opponent does matters at all.

I don't find myself particularly bored. Also: I don't argue with success nearly as often as other people seem to want to. A FUNDAMENTALLY sound army is what I play. If people are bored, I am fine with that. I'm not the thought police. They can fel however they wanna'.

And its sort of the point to make an effective army.

Well said.

And there are plenty of tricks to sisters... there are just no gimmicks. Jack of all trades army, master of none.

I'll do ITC I guess when the new plastic sisters arrive.

 Jancoran wrote:

Spoiler:

Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote:
Hi all,

So one of my LGS is holding a 1250 pt tournament using LGS simplified missions. I've been considering running the following:

BLOODY ROSE BATTALION:

Canoness- inferno pistol, Blade of Admonition, Righteous Rage- 56

Saint Celestine- 160

5 Battle Sisters- 2 storm bolters, Sister Superior w. storm bolter- 51

5 Battle Sisters- 2 storm bolters, Sister Superior w. storm bolter- 51

5 Battle Sisters- 2 storm bolters, Sister Superior w. storm bolter- 51

Preacher- chainsword- 25

8 Arco-Flagellants- 120

2 Geminae Superia- 50

7 Seraphim- 2 pairs of inferno pistols- 105

5 Retributors- 4 heavy bolters- 85

Exorcist- 125

Immolator- Immolation flamers- 98

Immolator- Immolation flamers- 98

Immolator- Immolation flamers- 98

Rhino- 2 storm bolters- 77

​

TOTAL: 1250

The general idea is, my mobile stuff zooms around to grab objectives or shoot stuff down as needed, Arcos are there to assault or counter-punch, Seraphim will go vehicle hunting, screen Celestine and/or tie up big nasties as needed; Exos and Rets are obviously there for supporting fire. The Canoness will go after the meanest enemy character or monster or vehicle she can find and chop it to bits.

Any thoughts on this list? In particular, I'm debating the following:

-Going for a standard Indomitable Belief Canoness instead with either the Book or the Brazier (or, for an interesting change of pace, trying the Wrath of the Emperor)

-Dropping something in favour of another Exorcist, although 2 Exorcists plus Celestine at 1250 points feels cheesy.

-Maybe using Dominions instead of Seraphim, and/or heavy flamer Rets

​

I am open to suggestions. I have no idea what I might be facing, although I know that there are two Blood Angel and one Chaos regulars there.

Uriah is a MUST in that list. Find a way to get it.

Geminae are not really necessary at this points level. I would skip them. there wont be enough arrayed against you that will actually be able to hit her and kill her twice.

I'd recommend melta dominion over the heavy Bolter retributors if points are an issue. Add the combi-flamer to them in this small of a points contest because it really could matter.

Can I ask you what you think Uriah adds to the list that a Missionary/Preacher doesn't?

Lammia wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

Spoiler:

Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote:
Hi all,

So one of my LGS is holding a 1250 pt tournament using LGS simplified missions. I've been considering running the following:

BLOODY ROSE BATTALION:

Canoness- inferno pistol, Blade of Admonition, Righteous Rage- 56

Saint Celestine- 160

5 Battle Sisters- 2 storm bolters, Sister Superior w. storm bolter- 51

5 Battle Sisters- 2 storm bolters, Sister Superior w. storm bolter- 51

5 Battle Sisters- 2 storm bolters, Sister Superior w. storm bolter- 51

Preacher- chainsword- 25

8 Arco-Flagellants- 120

2 Geminae Superia- 50

7 Seraphim- 2 pairs of inferno pistols- 105

5 Retributors- 4 heavy bolters- 85

Exorcist- 125

Immolator- Immolation flamers- 98

Immolator- Immolation flamers- 98

Immolator- Immolation flamers- 98

Rhino- 2 storm bolters- 77

​

TOTAL: 1250

The general idea is, my mobile stuff zooms around to grab objectives or shoot stuff down as needed, Arcos are there to assault or counter-punch, Seraphim will go vehicle hunting, screen Celestine and/or tie up big nasties as needed; Exos and Rets are obviously there for supporting fire. The Canoness will go after the meanest enemy character or monster or vehicle she can find and chop it to bits.

Any thoughts on this list? In particular, I'm debating the following:

-Going for a standard Indomitable Belief Canoness instead with either the Book or the Brazier (or, for an interesting change of pace, trying the Wrath of the Emperor)

-Dropping something in favour of another Exorcist, although 2 Exorcists plus Celestine at 1250 points feels cheesy.

-Maybe using Dominions instead of Seraphim, and/or heavy flamer Rets

​

I am open to suggestions. I have no idea what I might be facing, although I know that there are two Blood Angel and one Chaos regulars there.

Uriah is a MUST in that list. Find a way to get it.

Geminae are not really necessary at this points level. I would skip them. there wont be enough arrayed against you that will actually be able to hit her and kill her twice.

I'd recommend melta dominion over the heavy Bolter retributors if points are an issue. Add the combi-flamer to them in this small of a points contest because it really could matter.

Can I ask you what you think Uriah adds to the list that a Missionary/Preacher doesn't?

24 more arco attacks.

Sisters and GSC both have a pretty strong stake in 1st turn vs second. How would you deploy and Vanguard against those mystery blips if you knew you were going first/second? Similarly, what moves would you anticipate from a Cult army that was going first/second assuming they know what you've got going?

 MacPhail wrote:
Sisters and GSC both have a pretty strong stake in 1st turn vs second. How would you deploy and Vanguard against those mystery blips if you knew you were going first/second? Similarly, what moves would you anticipate from a Cult army that was going first/second assuming they know what you've got going?

Depends on the list BUT i'd suggest making GSC go first. They will use the swarmlord/stratagem and slingshot about 24-28 inches up the board and charge. S.o.p. GSC drop in round 2 with massive ds. Mental onslaught is absolutely brutal if you knoodle how to do it. Sniper will drop and aberrants. Possibly, though less likely, the acolyte bomb as well. But more likely abberants.

Absolutely key to stopping this as your formation. You MUST deploy your units w an "escape hatch" since they will try to tri-point you to avoid your shooting and vessel of the emperor. If you deploy them in a way that lets you escape their tripoint attempt, and get that vessel of the emperor off among a large number of shots, GSC could be done for quickly.

Brazier is critical against mental onslaught. Have it.

Gsc builds differ but Colin Sherman who plays locally is cleaning house w his triple Vulture spam, so your exorcists are about the best tool youve got besides melta seraphim for it. I chose exorcists and you will likely bring one or two down in round one w decent rolls and shenanigans.

Use seraphim to get into the very weak backfield most gsc players use. Recon and behind enemy lines could be possible, depending on his build.

Hard to have a discussion but if you hang WAY back with the vast majority and then feed him a relatively weak unit for his turn one charge, hes probably in trouble. Arcos will annihilate any gsc unit, period, so when the second wave hits the second shole, be ready with them. Bolters round 1, arcos round 2 in most cases.

 Jancoran wrote:

Lammia wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

Spoiler:

Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote:
Hi all,

So one of my LGS is holding a 1250 pt tournament using LGS simplified missions. I've been considering running the following:

BLOODY ROSE BATTALION:

Canoness- inferno pistol, Blade of Admonition, Righteous Rage- 56

Saint Celestine- 160

5 Battle Sisters- 2 storm bolters, Sister Superior w. storm bolter- 51

5 Battle Sisters- 2 storm bolters, Sister Superior w. storm bolter- 51

5 Battle Sisters- 2 storm bolters, Sister Superior w. storm bolter- 51

Preacher- chainsword- 25

8 Arco-Flagellants- 120

2 Geminae Superia- 50

7 Seraphim- 2 pairs of inferno pistols- 105

5 Retributors- 4 heavy bolters- 85

Exorcist- 125

Immolator- Immolation flamers- 98

Immolator- Immolation flamers- 98

Immolator- Immolation flamers- 98

Rhino- 2 storm bolters- 77

​

TOTAL: 1250

The general idea is, my mobile stuff zooms around to grab objectives or shoot stuff down as needed, Arcos are there to assault or counter-punch, Seraphim will go vehicle hunting, screen Celestine and/or tie up big nasties as needed; Exos and Rets are obviously there for supporting fire. The Canoness will go after the meanest enemy character or monster or vehicle she can find and chop it to bits.

Any thoughts on this list? In particular, I'm debating the following:

-Going for a standard Indomitable Belief Canoness instead with either the Book or the Brazier (or, for an interesting change of pace, trying the Wrath of the Emperor)

-Dropping something in favour of another Exorcist, although 2 Exorcists plus Celestine at 1250 points feels cheesy.

-Maybe using Dominions instead of Seraphim, and/or heavy flamer Rets

​

I am open to suggestions. I have no idea what I might be facing, although I know that there are two Blood Angel and one Chaos regulars there.

Uriah is a MUST in that list. Find a way to get it.

Geminae are not really necessary at this points level. I would skip them. there wont be enough arrayed against you that will actually be able to hit her and kill her twice.

I'd recommend melta dominion over the heavy Bolter retributors if points are an issue. Add the combi-flamer to them in this small of a points contest because it really could matter.

Can I ask you what you think Uriah adds to the list that a Missionary/Preacher doesn't?

24 more arco attacks.

A Missionary does that though, for less points...

Awesome details, thanks! A few followups:

 Jancoran wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:
Sisters and GSC both have a pretty strong stake in 1st turn vs second. How would you deploy and Vanguard against those mystery blips if you knew you were going first/second? Similarly, what moves would you anticipate from a Cult army that was going first/second assuming they know what you've got going?

Depends on the list BUT i'd suggest making GSC go first. They will use the swarmlord/stratagem and slingshot about 24-28 inches up the board and charge. S.o.p. GSC drop in round 2 with massive ds. Mental onslaught is absolutely brutal if you knoodle how to do it. Sniper will drop and aberrants. Possibly, though less likely, the acolyte bomb as well. But more likely abberants.

So with half the army in reserve as blips, what's likely to cross the board T1? And is it worth using a Vanguard move to screen half the board against it? That is, can I recognize the thing that's likely to slingshot and deploy three Dominion transports across from it, then Vanguard them into a nice armor fort across the midfield?

My answers:
I'll answer this in order. My answers are my opinions, based on what I have fought at tournaments.
1. Yes. Well actually its how you deploy them in the first place. i have a drawing i did to show another guy, but it seemed to mystify him, but in essence you are conceding that his Acid Maw and other Genestealers will absolutely reach you. This must be your assumption. So givwen that assumption, you need to absorb it with the way you lay your ladies out. Theres two ways to do it and it depends on the deployment type. If its just a 24" thing betweeen you, then you form them up in a circle. The Circle allows you to take the casualties and become PROGRSSIVELY further apart from his consolidation and it stretches him out, disallowing the Tri-pointing attempt by glomming them in. If you draw this out you will kind of see what I mean. Or take models out and do it. The wider you are, the wider he is (and if he follishly isn't and sort of goes in all at one point you are likely to avoid it anyways, but that's his error to make). This is your best chance. One other point is not to leave a gap large enough for him to slip behind you except the first few frontal sisters because they will die first anyways but you need to hold the line otherwise. This is not fool proof but it is what i would do. You simply cannot afford to allow him to tri-point you. if your units are smaller then a full on Genestealer charge is going to kill them anyways unless he love taps them. But all the more reason to spread out and force the issue. Love tapping one and killing it makes the tri point pretty tough although again, not impossible, when you deploy like that.
If you have a lot more room, like Hammer and anvil you can line them up in a column which accomplishes the same thing. killing just three i na column makes tri-pointing impossible.
EDIT: The wall you mention can be torn apart by the Swarmlord and the genestealers and if they wrap around the tanks... everyone dies. Going first means you pop out and shoot some stuff. I dont know how much you can kill with that but its going to end with all of them dead afetrwards.

2. yes. Its viable. I have seen the EXTREME version of the tactic and its terrifying. Doesnt auto win him or anything (he lost in that game I am referencing) but it was brutal. MASS HYPNOSIS IS SUPER BAD for Sisters so be aware. Thats the one that is the worst for us. Stops overwatch. makes Celestine go last even if she charged, etc... Its bad. Stop it. You should have all the denies you need wit hthe Brazier so...

3. Well Vultures are going to ignore that and thats why Colin uses them. 120 shots into {fill i nthe blank units} and Im sure the Arcos will be on that list, also very bad. The Genestealers are so fast they can course past you if they want to. Vanguard will just get your dominion killed. It'll be somewhat gratifying i would think to kill the first unit of genestealers only to have them all swallowed by the rest and abberants will come behind vie deepstrike.

There literally is no advice that works all the time but I would want as MUCH fire as possible as FAR away as possible from his home base and the Swarmlord, and let the Arcos take care of business against the second unit that gets slingshot'd...and it will. I would want the enemy as close to rapid fire as possible (behind a screen) after they make their deep strike charges as well. So a slow moving army needs to accept its limitations and play to its strengths.

Going first does let you shoot vultures first and its kind of important to kill them, butthey distract you from whats killing you. Killing those Aberrants is key and so its just a matter of priorities and no really great choices. In my game I kind of did this and then flubbed my Acts of Faith which allowed him the pressure he needed to end me. He was the one loss I took with this list. It was a big deal and a game changer. I did go first in that game and really flubbed a lot so having seen that, i now know that you kinda have to be smart about things. Going back in time i probably would have preserved the fly rule laden Seraphim and sent them as my shield because there's no tripointing them. I think Seraphim are key to a lotof strategies despite their lackluster demotion in the beta codex. They would make an admirable shield if you are willing to sacrifice them. The fusillade you can bring would end any GeneStealer Squad and prepare them for the second wave with DS, so Seraphim shields are something to think about.

Really solid insights, I appreciate it. Lots to think about... I might try a soft Vanguard move on one flank and a small Seraphim unit on the other to push back a little on the DS area. It sounds like Genestealers, Psykers, and Aberrants are the big look-fors.

 MacPhail wrote:
Really solid insights, I appreciate it. Lots to think about... I might try a soft Vanguard move on one flank and a small Seraphim unit on the other to push back a little on the DS area. It sounds like Genestealers, Psykers, and Aberrants are the big look-fors.

Yup

My list played well today, though not against GSC (though thanks for the ideas all the same). We called it a solid Sisters win as I was up on points and on my way to tabling my opponents. It was 2-on-1 game with 2000 points of Sisters vs. a mixed 1k/1k Dark Angels and Space Wolves force. It played out in two narratives: one was a long range shootout between three Exorcists and five LandSpeeder Typhoons, and a close range firefight between the bulk of the Sisters force and a pack of wolves, two Grey Hunter squads, a small TWC unit, and a named HQ. The long ranged matchup went as follows: Turn 1 Exos neutralize Scout Snipers, Turn 1 Typhoons blow up an Exo. Turn 2 Exorcists (with help from a melta Dominion squad) blow up 4 of the 5 Typhoons, and that was about it for the enemy's anti-tank. On the wolfy side of the board, I manged to get two unit of 5 stormbolters, one of 5 meltas, one of 4 heavy flamers, and one of Celestians, plus a Canoness, Preacher, Dialogus, Missionary, and Celestine right up to the edge of the enemy DZ. Blessed Bolts and Holy Trinity were brutal in the shooting phase, Passionate Bloody Rose Celestians took out the Thunderwolf Cavalry, and Celestine went down in a bloody exchange with some Deep Striking Space Wolf Terminators. My major error was leaving a sliver of daylight on a flank, getting wrapped by Wolves while TWC blew up my Rhino, which lost me a BSS inside. Had it been any other tank, it would have had 200 points in it. The Musical Rhinos gimmick was great again; I moved 10 units across the board in three transports, who then charged and tied up three enemy assault units while I dismberaked and set up a shooting gallery. It was honestly pretty brutal. Not perfect, but very effective.

 MacPhail wrote:
My list played well today, though not against GSC (though thanks for the ideas all the same). We called it a solid Sisters win as I was up on points and on my way to tabling my opponents. It was 2-on-1 game with 2000 points of Sisters vs. a mixed 1k/1k Dark Angels and Space Wolves force. It played out in two narratives: one was a long range shootout between three Exorcists and five LandSpeeder Typhoons, and a close range firefight between the bulk of the Sisters force and a pack of wolves, two Grey Hunter squads, a small TWC unit, and a named HQ. The long ranged matchup went as follows: Turn 1 Exos neutralize Scout Snipers, Turn 1 Typhoons blow up an Exo. Turn 2 Exorcists (with help from a melta Dominion squad) blow up 4 of the 5 Typhoons, and that was about it for the enemy's anti-tank. On the wolfy side of the board, I manged to get two unit of 5 stormbolters, one of 5 meltas, one of 4 heavy flamers, and one of Celestians, plus a Canoness, Preacher, Dialogus, Missionary, and Celestine right up to the edge of the enemy DZ. Blessed Bolts and Holy Trinity were brutal in the shooting phase, Passionate Bloody Rose Celestians took out the Thunderwolf Cavalry, and Celestine went down in a bloody exchange with some Deep Striking Space Wolf Terminators. My major error was leaving a sliver of daylight on a flank, getting wrapped by Wolves while TWC blew up my Rhino, which lost me a BSS inside. Had it been any other tank, it would have had 200 points in it. The Musical Rhinos gimmick was great again; I moved 10 units across the board in three transports, who then charged and tied up three enemy assault units while I dismberaked and set up a shooting gallery. It was honestly pretty brutal. Not perfect, but very effective.

I have to admit: I really do not understand the reference even still to "Musical Rhinos". I play Sisters and have for a long long time. But yet this reference eludes me.

Is this just a reference to disembarking, and then having another unit embark in the same turn? Or is this something else. I feel like I should understand this reference but no one here plays sisters except me and so there's no one to ask. Lol.

If it is, then I am wondering what the application is which makes this such a nick-name worthy thing to do? Is it just the obvious? Or something not so obvious.

It was explained a while ago.

Basically doms in transports. Vanguard move up. Jump doms out their 9". Move up foot units and advance if necessary to jump into now empty transports t1. T2 they jump out 9".
No good for flamers immo but MM immo have a nice range mid field now. All assuming your vehicles dont pop in t1.

Something like that anyways. Musical rhinos, slingshot, leapfrog.

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
It was explained a while ago.

Basically doms in transports. Vanguard move up. Jump doms out their 9". Move up foot units and advance if necessary to jump into now empty transports t1. T2 they jump out 9".
No good for flamers immo but MM immo have a nice range mid field now. All assuming your vehicles dont pop in t1.

Something like that anyways. Musical rhinos, slingshot, leapfrog.

OKay so its nothing strange then. Its just using the Rhino to protect the units coming behind the Dominions. I thought there must be more to it for it to have its own nick name but...no. Lol.

 Jancoran wrote:


OKay so its nothing strange then. Its just using the Rhino to protect the units coming behind the Dominions. I thought there must be more to it for it to have its own nick name but...no. Lol.

Right, its just exploiting the length of a rhino to increase the speed of the army without the crazy cost of putting every unit in a rhino

 Grundz wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:


OKay so its nothing strange then. Its just using the Rhino to protect the units coming behind the Dominions. I thought there must be more to it for it to have its own nick name but...no. Lol.

Right, its just exploiting the length of a rhino to increase the speed of the army without the crazy cost of putting every unit in a rhino

Yeah, there's nothing fancy about it, and I'm always jumping models into empty Rhinos. But this was the first time I'd built a list and deployment scheme around the concept and it felt incredibly strong. It gave some new life to things like Celestians and heavy flamer Retributers by allowing them to cross the table as if they were Dominions... they just don't hit until Turn 2. It would have a rough time against a strong anti tank army, but I also had 3 Exos to draw fire, so it worked out nicely.