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You are correct on both accounts, I am sorry, I was still stuck on the one ministorum priest per detachment rule from the index. I saw the flowchart and I assume it is still in place, I was just told by someone that you cannot, so I don't know if that is an ITC ruling or not. In all honesty though, I'm not sure its worth the -1 to hit and points over an Axe or Maul in MOST cases, as you probably don't want to be charging a knight with your canoness, and most characters have a 4+ invuln min anyways. Dialogus also gives +1 Ld which isn't nothing when you're running large blobs, and I while I agree that your list should be good WITHOUT acts, it is helpful to have them go off, and if you need them to go off, giving a free reroll (30 pts is nothing) is amazing. in a large squad I would almost recommend putting a banner in there just because acts values go up exponentially with the amount of models in the unit. Who is the warlord in your list?

Hmm, you're probably correct when it comes to the eviscerator vs. power maul/axe. What I was hunting for was the D3 damage. But as you pointed out, she's most likely going to be used as a weaker counter punch and buff character. But 7 swings, hitting on 3s, rerolling 1s, wounding T4 on 2s is really good... I'll try a different load-out and see where it gets me.

And as for the dialogus, I'm convinced that she has a role to play. I'll give her a go!

Not so sure about the simulacrum in each unit though... For what I want to do it feels a little expensive. But on the other hand, sometimes you really need the power to work. I'll throw a few points around.

My warlord is either one of the canonesses with the +1 invul trait or a thunderfire-techmarine in order to be able to get CPs back on a 5+.

trulsante wrote:
Hmm, you're probably correct when it comes to the eviscerator vs. power maul/axe. What I was hunting for was the D3 damage. But as you pointed out, she's most likely going to be used as a weaker counter punch and buff character. But 7 swings, hitting on 3s, rerolling 1s, wounding T4 on 2s is really good... I'll try a different load-out and see where it gets me.

And as for the dialogus, I'm convinced that she has a role to play. I'll give her a go!

Not so sure about the simulacrum in each unit though... For what I want to do it feels a little expensive. But on the other hand, sometimes you really need the power to work. I'll throw a few points around.

My warlord is either one of the canonesses with the +1 invul trait or a thunderfire-techmarine in order to be able to get CPs back on a 5+.

Where are you getting the 7th from? One from order, one from priest is 6. Maul makes you wound T5s (which is probably the largest you'll see in combat with a canoness or you did something wrong) on 3s, which is perfectly fine. You don't need her to kill everything, that's what the super sword relic canoness is for, and inferno pistols finish characters off nicely. I would only put a banner on the 15 wide squads, you can also spend a CP to make one have up to a 3+ invuln for a round (you have to run Celestine and the Warlord Trait for that) But it makes them way more survivable getting up the board, especially when not running transports. Try to keep them in cover and you'll be immune to dakka. D3 Damage is nice, but I find that most of the time I do about the same as having 1 damage because of the misses I end up getting, or the multi wounds just don't matter at all (nids, orks). As I stated these are just my opinions and I play them very differently than you do most of the time. Though I have had a fluff tournament where I had a 15 squad take one casualty from a 1st turn charge by 2 units of stormboyz and then the stormboyz all died. He basically conceded on the spot. I want to be able to play the non castle sisters, but at the moment it is just the WAAC list and that's pretty much all anyone plays at my local tournaments now. I've tried playing fluff lists but I hate getting shot off the table on turn 1. People always complain about my army wide 4+ invuln but there is WAY more broken stuff you can do in soup, and my stuff still dies, its just not lawnmower town for them.

Possible to get 7 with Priest, Bloody Rose and the generic warlord trait giving +1A on charge. 4+1+1+1.

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Possible to get 7 with Priest, Bloody Rose and the generic warlord trait giving +1A on charge. 4+1+1+1.

There's no way you can convince me that 1 extra attack on a cannoness is better than the invuln aura.

 deviantduck wrote:

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Possible to get 7 with Priest, Bloody Rose and the generic warlord trait giving +1A on charge. 4+1+1+1.

There's no way you can convince me that 1 extra attack on a cannoness is better than the invuln aura.

This^^ lol, why would you give a warlord canoness (especially one without the blade of awesomeness) +1 attack over reroll charge and wound rolls on charge, Invuln Aura, or any of the other Warlord traits for that matter? +1 attack is like .5 damage. wooo

 deviantduck wrote:

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Possible to get 7 with Priest, Bloody Rose and the generic warlord trait giving +1A on charge. 4+1+1+1.

There's no way you can convince me that 1 extra attack on a cannoness is better than the invuln aura.

Agreed.

Caprican wrote:

trulsante wrote:
Hmm, you're probably correct when it comes to the eviscerator vs. power maul/axe. What I was hunting for was the D3 damage. But as you pointed out, she's most likely going to be used as a weaker counter punch and buff character. But 7 swings, hitting on 3s, rerolling 1s, wounding T4 on 2s is really good... I'll try a different load-out and see where it gets me.

And as for the dialogus, I'm convinced that she has a role to play. I'll give her a go!

Not so sure about the simulacrum in each unit though... For what I want to do it feels a little expensive. But on the other hand, sometimes you really need the power to work. I'll throw a few points around.

My warlord is either one of the canonesses with the +1 invul trait or a thunderfire-techmarine in order to be able to get CPs back on a 5+.

Where are you getting the 7th from? One from order, one from priest is 6. Maul makes you wound T5s (which is probably the largest you'll see in combat with a canoness or you did something wrong) on 3s, which is perfectly fine. You don't need her to kill everything, that's what the super sword relic canoness is for, and inferno pistols finish characters off nicely. I would only put a banner on the 15 wide squads, you can also spend a CP to make one have up to a 3+ invuln for a round (you have to run Celestine and the Warlord Trait for that) But it makes them way more survivable getting up the board, especially when not running transports. Try to keep them in cover and you'll be immune to dakka. D3 Damage is nice, but I find that most of the time I do about the same as having 1 damage because of the misses I end up getting, or the multi wounds just don't matter at all (nids, orks). As I stated these are just my opinions and I play them very differently than you do most of the time. Though I have had a fluff tournament where I had a 15 squad take one casualty from a 1st turn charge by 2 units of stormboyz and then the stormboyz all died. He basically conceded on the spot. I want to be able to play the non castle sisters, but at the moment it is just the WAAC list and that's pretty much all anyone plays at my local tournaments now. I've tried playing fluff lists but I hate getting shot off the table on turn 1. People always complain about my army wide 4+ invuln but there is WAY more broken stuff you can do in soup, and my stuff still dies, its just not lawnmower town for them.

I did an oopsie, of course I meant 6 attacks

We're having a game day tomorrow. I'll try out some of the changes proposed.

 Jancoran wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Possible to get 7 with Priest, Bloody Rose and the generic warlord trait giving +1A on charge. 4+1+1+1.

There's no way you can convince me that 1 extra attack on a cannoness is better than the invuln aura.

Agreed.

I gotta agree as well.

Ive been looking at adding Celestine to my imperium list and wanted some feed back.

My list is 3 knights, guardsmen squads, and a celexus. Celestine would replace the celexus.

How has celestine stood up with all the knights running around?
Is celestine viable without the gemenais?
Any tips or tricks to running just celestine?
Any strats i need to know to run her?
And best transport options for the model? She looks fragile

Thanks!

 UMGuy wrote:
Ive been looking at adding Celestine to my imperium list and wanted some feed back.

My list is 3 knights, guardsmen squads, and a celexus. Celestine would replace the celexus.

How has celestine stood up with all the knights running around?
Is celestine viable without the gemenais?
Any tips or tricks to running just celestine?
Any strats i need to know to run her?
And best transport options for the model? She looks fragile

Thanks!

Celestine does her thang. She uses other units to protect her. She kills something. She gets killed. She rises. she kills something. She gets killed. She gives out max points on KingSlayer (ITC secondary) but who cares because she is still reaaaaaally good. Also helps get objectives for ya and those points matter also.

I personally see no reason not to take her. i detest soup lists as a rule, but i mean it is what it is. So yeah, if you have the points, then she's worth the points in my opinion. Skip her bodyguards. NOT worth the points. Their wording suuuuuuuucks.

 Melissia wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Possible to get 7 with Priest, Bloody Rose and the generic warlord trait giving +1A on charge. 4+1+1+1.

There's no way you can convince me that 1 extra attack on a cannoness is better than the invuln aura.

Agreed.

I gotta agree as well.

Never said it was a good idea. Just that it was possible.

And in 3.5e it was possible for a single basic Battle Sister to tarpit Abbadon for a few turns. Doesn't mean you could rely on it to happen XD

Ok, so some time and a lot of trial and error has passed and it's time to leave some kind of report.

The list:

ULTRA BATALLION
3 smashfakkahs (one on bike)

3x 5 scouts (one unit with snipers)

2 thunderfire cannons

1 mortis dread w/ 2 twin heavy bolter

BLOODY ROSE BATALLION
2 canoness (ubersword and eviscerator, melta pistols)

45 battle sisters, meltas combiflamer and power mauls

Dialogus

1 dominion sq with stormbolters

CUSTODES SUPREME COMMAND
3x goldenboys on mopeds

Three matches against Eldar flyers, all the orcs and genestealer cults/nids. I won all the match-ups (ok, the orc match was a close call by 3 points in my favor) mainly because of three things:

1) people underestimate the shooty power as well as CC abilities of the sisters and instead target the thunderfires and mortis dredd. After a 9" move I was able to both hit 1+ with AoF and enact holy trinity on a hemlock. It died. One squad of 15 sisters shot, assaulted and killed a warboss on bike, 3 bikes and a 30 mob of orcs during one turn. I enacted the +1 to hit AoF as well as got the Passion off (thanks to dialogus - she's a keeper). They held the flank against another 30 mob for one more turn before a shield captain had to intervene.

2) people underestimate just how well the sisters in combination with hard hitting, mobile characters, can score secondaries. The only match I didn't max out the secondaries was against orcs since I could reach his cannons to score the final choose your poison-point.

3) people underestimate how tough the ladies are. 3+,6++ is really good. People tend to make the argument that astra militarum does it cheaper AND better but they don't get 2+ save in ruins. And there are a lot of ruins/cover in the London GT.

The sisters are really good and are incredibly fun to play.

trulsante wrote:
I won all the match-ups mainly because of three things:
1) people underestimate...

A long-held advantage of the sisters is with so few players many opponents don't know quite what to expect, and mis-prioritise units.

Though three smash-captains and three custode biker captains make for quite a distraction carnifex :p

The sisters certainly have potential as guard ally replacement though. If the codex sees them keep their anti-psychic relic and adds tools like jump packs for the canoness it will up their ally appeal.

A.T. wrote:

trulsante wrote:
I won all the match-ups mainly because of three things:
1) people underestimate...

A long-held advantage of the sisters is with so few players many opponents don't know quite what to expect, and mis-prioritise units.

Absolutely

Ive had so many people focus my exorcists, I have them move with my 4++ bubble where they are basically half of a knight, each, and soak up stupid amounts of fire for their cost

My exorcists were garbage tonight but they did keep the heavy weapons occupied. Celestine sort of did the same thing: kept things focused on those four models and was then able to do mega damage.

He conceded essentially after turn 3 but did a half hearted top of 4 just cause. I was going to wipe him out, but yeah. No point when he's packing it away.

I'm really having fun with these. I even offered to play adifferent army but he insisted I use them. =)

 Jancoran wrote:
My exorcists were garbage tonight but they did keep the heavy weapons occupied. Celestine sort of did the same thing: kept things focused on those four models and was then able to do mega damage.

He conceded essentially after turn 3 but did a half hearted top of 4 just cause. I was going to wipe him out, but yeah. No point when he's packing it away.

I'm really having fun with these. I even offered to play adifferent army but he insisted I use them. =)

That is my experience also - that the exorcists are kind of garabage. The D6 shots hurt them badly. Every time I've used them they shoot like 1-3 shots each and even with rerolling 1s that potential damage output is just to little to make me want to take them. Hopefully they'll get something akin to 2d3 shots or perhaps even 3d3 shots.

As of now I've only used them to have people shoot at them instead of my much more powerful sister squads.

trulsante wrote:


That is my experience also - that the exorcists are kind of garabage. The D6 shots hurt them badly. Every time I've used them they shoot like 1-3 shots each and even with rerolling 1s that potential damage output is just to little to make me want to take them. Hopefully they'll get something akin to 2d3 shots or perhaps even 3d3 shots.

As of now I've only used them to have people shoot at them instead of my much more powerful sister squads.

I kind of like them as-is
Their inconsistency lets their price be low and not be a stupid ally auto-take like celestine was. That their dice can explode sky high makes them unignorable

Indeed. Any more "reliable" and their price would go up inevitably.

*insert my customary defence of Exorcist and retelling of how absurdly effective Exos have been in my games*

trulsante wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
My exorcists were garbage tonight but they did keep the heavy weapons occupied. Celestine sort of did the same thing: kept things focused on those four models and was then able to do mega damage.

He conceded essentially after turn 3 but did a half hearted top of 4 just cause. I was going to wipe him out, but yeah. No point when he's packing it away.

I'm really having fun with these. I even offered to play adifferent army but he insisted I use them. =)

That is my experience also - that the exorcists are kind of garabage. The D6 shots hurt them badly. Every time I've used them they shoot like 1-3 shots each and even with rerolling 1s that potential damage output is just to little to make me want to take them. Hopefully they'll get something akin to 2d3 shots or perhaps even 3d3 shots.

As of now I've only used them to have people shoot at them instead of my much more powerful sister squads.

Well while they were garbage in this particular game, they serve admirably plenty of times. It's not reliable but it is very threatening. So from that standpoint i really cannot complain. And boy do they look great!Heres the updated link to the Battle reports Ive been doing. Some with pics. https://www.ordofanaticus.com/topic/211720-adepta-sororitas-battle-reports/#comments

Nice batreps as usual, Jancoran. Would you say you bait an opponent with the deploy-first-but-go-second gambit, or is it just a look at how the table lies and a snap decision? How often do you play for second?

 MacPhail wrote:
Nice batreps as usual, Jancoran. Would you say you bait an opponent with the deploy-first-but-go-second gambit, or is it just a look at how the table lies and a snap decision? How often do you play for second?

Long reply, sorry.

I speak strictly for me here but I tend to like to go second because I can almost assuredly control objectives all game long if I do. Being able to control one and control more for 6 turns is 12 points in the ITC, and then of course one assumes the Secondaries will be maxed if you choose wisely, or the enemy concedes. That leaves you with just 18 points at issue (Killed one, Killed more in 6 rounds = 12, plus 6 bonus points but no one ever usually gets very many of those). Given my force make up, it would be very difficult for an enemy to hold more than I can. It has happened in some rounds, but if you read the Battle Reports, you'll see that it probably wasn't often.

Ironically, I have gotten siezed on a LOT and while that's been okay in most cases, it really sucked in the loss to the Castellan+Space Puppies and no less the one with the Pointy Hammer and Anvil so I was much too close when it happened. Of the two losses this list has suffered, that one hurt the most. I honestly learned a lot from that battle, and I improved the list afterwards. I'm extremely excited about how those changes have performed as I mentioned in earlier posts.

Missions 2,4,6 really are strong ones for me. If I am forced to deploy first it REALLY doesn't affect MY deployment AT ALL. My deployment is essentially the same whether I'm going first or not, which is rare to say for any army. It allows me to speed deploy as well. I can plop down six things at once and say "go" and pass the time to them. While they are pulling stuff out I'm already deploying stuff (Oh I'm sorry, putting them out on the table in exactly theposition I WILL deploy them =) ) . That CERTAINLY isn't true for the enemy 90% of the time, as they look down the barrels of three Exorcists and have to plan for three drop units. So allowing them to think I will positively want to fire down on them with Exorcists first DRAMATICALLY affects their deployment 90% of the time (and hell...I will if they deploy foolishly and that's where the critical "if" is in whether you go first).

Then I can see what they've done, premeasure and decide if it's better to actually to go first. By premeausure, I mean that it just makes sense that if Tactical Marines are 30.01" away from me, let 'em go first (or if most Primaris are 36.01 inches or more). And that's usually what happens when I deploy first in missions 2,4 and 6: they dont want to get hit with 50 bolters plus Exorcists. They deploy defensively because they just cannot take the chance. I totally CAN take the chance and let them hit me with some missiles or whatever. I mean the save is kinda awesome in turn one. I'm not that worried.

Castellans change everything. Whittling them early and degrading their accuracy (if you can because some Houses let you kind of ignore the degradation) is just unspeakably critical. They are so devastating, even despite the points change, that to lack respect for them is just to be as stupid as you can be. So when I see that...Yeah, I wanna' go first and I wanna' go first badly. It's the one threat I will modify my deployment significantly for, because any time you see that, you will also see some form of fast moving units, whether they be IG using the Move Move Move order or Shield Captains, Wulfen, Vanguard Vets or Veteran Bikers. The enemy will do what it can to keep the pressure on you and off of the Castellan. So you kinda gotta make the dent when you can. That puts the objectives heavily in play which I don't like. But it is what it is.

Thus far the list is now... 22-2. Losses again were to Genestealer cult (that was a straight up dice loss and there wasn't much you could do) and then the Castellan+Space Puppies+32 fight which was a knock down drag out loss once he seized. We put a hurt on them but I simply deployed too close on a board where we were only 18" away from one another. That was really where I made the critical error, and those errors are fixable once you diagnose it.

Premeasuring for the win.

Addendum: I'm going to throw the Sisters into the fire again and try to win two tournies in a row the weekend of the 15th, this time at a different store. 34 players will be there. Dunno how it will go. Really great players play in this meta, so it will be an extremely hard fought tournament. I've seen the guest list. and it's reeeeeally good. Jason Byrd (42nd in the US West region, I assume his Orks), Jason Rider (Imperium) is tough, Hank Adams (41st in the US West region) and his SICK conversion and paint on his Knights, James Donis and his equally cool Necrons, Oseas Aduna (80th in US West) and his Orks, Paul Winters (64th US West) and his Daemons, Justin Whitton (57th in US West)... It will be a very good test against a lot of top 100 players in the West region. Drink lots of water in the week leading up and keep the back limber. Hehehe.

So I've got a tournament this Friday and was planing on running my sisters. I've also got some Primaris Ultramarines and I had considered picking up some Custodes.

That being said, if I was going to run a second detachment what would compliment the sisters better? Marines or Custodes?

 godswildcard wrote:
So I've got a tournament this Friday and was planing on running my sisters. I've also got some Primaris Ultramarines and I had considered picking up some Custodes.

That being said, if I was going to run a second detachment what would compliment the sisters better? Marines or Custodes?

I mean, shield captains are the obvious answer? They are flat out good.

 Jancoran wrote:

 godswildcard wrote:
So I've got a tournament this Friday and was planing on running my sisters. I've also got some Primaris Ultramarines and I had considered picking up some Custodes.

That being said, if I was going to run a second detachment what would compliment the sisters better? Marines or Custodes?

I mean, shield captains are the obvious answer? They are flat out good.

If I'm being honest, I could use a bit more information here. I use tournaments as a way to get 3+ games in in one day, so I'm not what one would call a tournament player. I see a lot of differing opinions on the shield captains, but it seems most people agree that a shield captain with Superior Creation on a jetbike is a great HQ choice. If I picked up two boxes of bikes and a box of Custodes and ran a patrol detachment with:

1x Shield Captain
1x Shield Captain on Bike

3x Custodes
1x Vexilla

5x Bikes

How does that look? Would it help cover some of the gaps in the sisters army?

 godswildcard wrote:


How does that look? Would it help cover some of the gaps in the sisters army?

IMO:
The vexilla is wasted, the only buff (iirc) that effects sisters is the invulnerable one, they already have better
I would stick to multiple characters on bikes that are hiding behind the sisters than units of bikers that can be shot out from behind them

Besides that it matters on what the rest of your list is

 godswildcard wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 godswildcard wrote:
So I've got a tournament this Friday and was planing on running my sisters. I've also got some Primaris Ultramarines and I had considered picking up some Custodes.

That being said, if I was going to run a second detachment what would compliment the sisters better? Marines or Custodes?

I mean, shield captains are the obvious answer? They are flat out good.

If I'm being honest, I could use a bit more information here. I use tournaments as a way to get 3+ games in in one day, so I'm not what one would call a tournament player. I see a lot of differing opinions on the shield captains, but it seems most people agree that a shield captain with Superior Creation on a jetbike is a great HQ choice. If I picked up two boxes of bikes and a box of Custodes and ran a patrol detachment with:

1x Shield Captain
1x Shield Captain on Bike

3x Custodes
1x Vexilla

5x Bikes

How does that look? Would it help cover some of the gaps in the sisters army?

Just bike captains. Supremem Command detachment or something like that would work.

Yeah, i was running 3 shield captains for a while along with a crusader knight.

Having Celestine + 30 Seraphim screen up with 30 Doms and 3 dawneagle Captains really puts pressure on them very fast.

Then the rest sits back and does it things.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Yeah, i was running 3 shield captains for a while along with a crusader knight.

Having Celestine + 30 Seraphim screen up with 30 Doms and 3 dawneagle Captains really puts pressure on them very fast.

Then the rest sits back and does it things.

I guess if you like having no command points that's cool.