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Amishprn86 wrote: AH ok, well thats the difference, I dont play sob in ITC, i hate ITC, i play normal GW rules with them. ITC is a mess for many armies to compete in without giving up things that are normally good in fear of giving up to many secondaries. So my POV is opposite of yours. For Maelstome/Eternal missions they are just bad when you can have Vehicles + guys inside to hold objectives. ITC is to much focus on killing. if the game was balanced around a deathmatch style (shorter range weapons, penalties for moving and shooting, less re-rolls, more rules to stop movements and having pawns for elites really mattered) then sure.
I was a loud voice against ITC play for a while. I run a ton of the events in my area and I refused to do ITC ones for a couple years. They finally started listening to the players more which made me look at them in a different light.
ITC secondaries allow your army to be what you want it to be so I think it just requires more, mentally, to play ITC rules because you must be cognizant of the points the enemy is trying to gain as well as your own. My St. Celestine is almost 4 auto points for the enemy but so what? She does work. And at the end of the day if I score the crap out of my opponent, it won't matter how many they have. =). IN fact my strength of schedule will be that much better for it.
Just played a game tonight. Happy to report the army is now 24-2. Almost every one of those games was using ITC rules. Sisters can do it!
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Grundz wrote: My complaint about ITC is only that sisters have a mighty need for a fistful of cheap characters which give up a lot of points
Other than that they are really tough to fight, most of the common objectives are very difficult to complete
Head Hunter is hard for the enemy to get against us though. I know I kind of Squee when people choose Head Hunter Secondary because there's little chance they'll get much out of it from me (I have 6 characters: Celestine, Canoness, Imagifier, Missionary, 2 x Dialogus).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/13 17:29:49
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
I'm running almost the same, but you're running infantry, I'm running tank, so I have a lot less bodies to absorb gunfire, with celestine X2 and probably a missionary and/or canoness going down at some point during the game, thats it right there
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Grundz wrote: I'm running almost the same, but you're running infantry, I'm running tank, so I have a lot less bodies to absorb gunfire, with celestine X2 and probably a missionary and/or canoness going down at some point during the game, thats it right there
Kingslayer is just easier to get. I concede those points anyways so meh. but Head Hunter is a lot harder against me. People still pick it since my charcaters are easy to kill.
My go to picks are usually Marked For Death, Gangbusters and Engineers if their army allows it. Makes focusing things down a lot more profitable and it forces him to decide how much he really wants to expose those 4 units. I didn't get my Gangbuster points until the end of the last game so it took a while (I rolled improbably poorly all game so it's a miracle I won it).
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Amishprn86 wrote: I'm not going down this road again, others can read my old comments to see all the reason why i dont like it. Lets stay on topic.
To be fair you TOOK the time to reiterate it, begging a response from those who have found it better than it was.
But sure. It will only derail us so maybe not mentioning it in the future would be good.
I was saying i dont need to keep talking about ITC vs Non-ITC opinions on liking it or not liking it, i brought it up to SHOW i dont like Pen Engines in Non-ITC and i dont have a good perspective using them in ITC.
celestine, 2 canonesses (power sword/evicerator), missionary
6 squads of 5 sisters, combi plasma/2 stormbolter
1 dominion stormbolter squad
2 6 man seraphim melta squads
3x exo's with HK missiles
3 repesssors
1 immolator
2 pen engines
I'm not sure if its a net loss or not to drop an immolator for melta seraphims, and trading the arco's for 2 pen engines, I think I have enough armor and bolters to deal with most hordey lists, and pen engines don't do all that bad with 2x heavy flamers each anyway, but are so much more killy vs T8+
I figure without the arco's eating 2cp on the charge its about a wash for cp
I do like it when lists surface for review... I'll post one in a bit with a fun twist.
On this one, I'd say both of those swaps have merit, at least to try and for the fun on it. I'm also going to test Celestine crossing the table with Inferno Seraphim, and Penitent Engines are just stompy, burny fun. At least half the time they don't work, but when they do... Nothing is probably worth the cost of well deployed and well delivered Arcoflagellants, but I like what you get in return here.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Okay, here's a fun project, and I'd appreciate some guidance. I'm pushing (and I think I'm going to make it) to get ALL of my Sisters infantry models painted this month (before a game on the 29th), and I want a list that let's me bring them all. It means jamming in lots of extra specials and heavies to the point were there's no getting it down to a conventional 2000 points.
My 137 suits of variously equipped power armor winds up being 2218 by my best count. I'm not sure how to organize it for maximum CP, it breaks the Rule of 3, and I'm short on Canonesses if I don't bring any Ministorum models. In fact, I probably will sprinkle some Missionaries, Preachers, proxy-Dialogi, and a Penitent Engine to shoot for an even (or close to) 2500 points for the sake of my game group.
Here's my entire collection of metal Sisters infantry, organized as best I can into useful min/max MSU squads. With extra Ministorum stuff, I suspect Brigade + Battalion is the ultimate target. I'm not going for competitive, but hopefully fun and flavorful, and there's lots+ saves, lots of dakka, and maybe some movement trays. How would you hope to play this list?
Spoiler:
Celestine & Geminae
Canoness w/ Book or Brazier
Canoness w/ BoA and IP
Canoness w/ power axe
I do like it when lists surface for review... I'll post one in a bit with a fun twist.
On this one, I'd say both of those swaps have merit, at least to try and for the fun on it. I'm also going to test Celestine crossing the table with Inferno Seraphim, and Penitent Engines are just stompy, burny fun. At least half the time they don't work, but when they do... Nothing is probably worth the cost of well deployed and well delivered Arcoflagellants, but I like what you get in return here.
My problem with the arco's is round 3 I ran against another sisters player (I know, right??!) who ran 3 pen engines, whom I also thought I would just blow off the board on turn 2, after I dealt with his exo's that didn't happen, not only did they eat TWO turns of exo fire with reasonable luck, but also a bunch of sisters fire, killed 2 transports, then flubbed a second charge after eating all the overwatch in the universe and being downed by my sword canoness.
My arcos on the other hand, didn't really make it out there until later, the priest failed to get within charge range , two died to overwatch, 3 arcos wasn't worth burning 2cp on.
Looking back at the games before that, the arco bus did do some lifting, but really not any more lifting than I think 4 heavy flamers and a truckload of power fist attacks would do. it costs me 3cp to go to two battalions, but saves me 2cp by not using the arco statagem. What really got me liking them is how unassailable they were by just having 4-6 heavy flamers, I couldn't go in on them and my tank failed the assault to eat all that overwatch.
My list is built around getting an early attrition and position advantage through the calidus assassin stratagem that eats all their cp, the exo's and all the tanks, and then just outlasting them and gobbling up all the objectives while not dying.
ANOTHER fluffy idea, was to take a supreme command detachment of inquisitor hex. He has a 3++, can deep strike, dominate out to 18" which is hilarious against knights, and critically, also remove peoples ability to overwatch those sisters and arco flags and iirc improves deny the witch.
Really i'm happy with sisters's choices right now, all I really think I want/need is more stratagems/faith stuff that isn't terrible, and maybe an elite choice that isn't terrible (or just not 30pt characters that dont do anything) so I can go back up to a brigade.
I'd love to see celestine + 3 hospitaleers become sort of a weird recursion list idea combined with sisters silly toughness, but requiring a 4+ to rez a 9pt model is kind of dumb!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/14 00:17:39
Godforge custom 3d printing / professional level casting masters and design:
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Took the Sisters to a tournament again. Missed 4th place by a whisker, ended up 13th out of 34 or so (yeah that's how it goes) but was really happy about how it all performed.
I am still pondering pretty hard about that Vindicare Assassin. Taking one takes an Exorcist out of the list. Dunno how I'm feeling about that given my armies range. The Exorcists are incredibly unreliable but the Assassin is sort of the same kind of feast or famine guy. I worry that taking him will not avail me more, but its utility is certainly unique and adds a dimension even if it costs me firepower, sometimes significantly against Knights and the like.
Tough call but i think I might experiment with it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/17 20:44:04
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Only had a single game with it so far, but in spite of absolutely horrific rolling across the board the entire game, it did what I wanted.
Exorcist castle hammering away under 4++ protection. Pengines and 2 stock bss with storm bolter bss on DS denial, counter charge and rear objective duty. The rest up front being aggressive.
Repentia are just there as a token showcase.
Only had a single game with it so far, but in spite of absolutely horrific rolling across the board the entire game, it did what I wanted.
Exorcist castle hammering away under 4++ protection. Pengines and 2 stock bss with storm bolter bss on DS denial, counter charge and rear objective duty. The rest up front being aggressive.
Repentia are just there as a token showcase.
A couple of curiosities:
How did you come to choose the Mantle over the Book or Brazier?
How do you find the heavy flamer / melta / combi-melta package in your BSS? Are you getting some use out of Holy Trinity?
Finally, why not trade away a few of those extra Sisters in your second Battalion for more stormbolters? Limits of the collection?
Well the Mantle is just a place holder relic. If I know my opponent is going to have significant psychic capabilities, I'll swap it out for the Brazier; otherwise the Mantle just gives her that little bit of tankiness to go with her beat stick.
Given her role as a beat stick I don't see a point to giving her the book. My warlord Cannoness sits in range conducting the Exorcists all game so she has no use for the book. I figure my relics are better placed on the front line in this case.
I like the flexibility of the bss having the HF, melta and inferno. It's a load out that I have used since I first started playing and has worked for me. I do use Holy Trinity on the occasions I remember it and have a suitable target and it has been quite effective for me. Not something I swear by but it gives a nice little extra oomph when I want it. I had a min squad the other week use it in concert with Kill the Witch stratagem and absolutely ruined a Lord of Change' day.
The storm bolters in this list are all the storm bolters I have in my collection. I'm not a fan of Storm bolters myself. I'm not sure why. I know they're rhe current hotness, but I'm just not drawn to them like flamers and melta.
Quick batrep: a fun 2000 point game vs. Bryan's Death Guard. We both tried some new things: I brought three Seraphim squads and a Penitent Engine, he tried the "Blight Grenade Party Bus" with 7 Plague Marines, 2 Foul Blightspawns, and a Biologus Putrifier in a Rhino. Both experiments were reasonably successful, but I secured 4 of 6 objectives and had it won by Turn 3 on points and board control. Minor conclusions: IP Seraphim can hit pretty hard if you can keep them alive, melee Canonesses are cheap and effective, and T5 is a tough nut to crack.
The best matchup was Battle Sisters, Seraphim, Celestians, Canoness, and Preacher, plus a Penitent Engine vs. double Demon Princes hiding behind a unit of Blight Haulers. They got the first DP and Celestine arrived late to finish the second one before all three Sororitas squads were devastated by the arrival of 10 deep-striking Terminators.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/30 06:21:57
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
deviantduck wrote: Anyone get their new plastic sister(s) painted up yet? I keep forgetting to pick it up from the shop.
Not sure I am going to. She's a giant.
Really? I haven't seen it in person. I don't plan on using the base with it, but the model is a larger scale? I wonder if the entire new range will be bigger...
deviantduck wrote: Anyone get their new plastic sister(s) painted up yet? I keep forgetting to pick it up from the shop.
Not sure I am going to. She's a giant.
Really? I haven't seen it in person. I don't plan on using the base with it, but the model is a larger scale? I wonder if the entire new range will be bigger...
From what I have seen, standing next to the old Canoness model she's as tall as the torch on the old girls back pack. Fine for new stuff I guess, and definitely the look of what's to come. With my mountain of painted metal Sisters I don't think I will be needing anything but possibly new vehicles. If we see entirely new units, I may have to convert what I can but the new models look (to me) to be almost like putting Primaris next to old style marines.
deviantduck wrote: Anyone get their new plastic sister(s) painted up yet? I keep forgetting to pick it up from the shop.
Not sure I am going to. She's a giant.
Really? I haven't seen it in person. I don't plan on using the base with it, but the model is a larger scale? I wonder if the entire new range will be bigger...
From what I have seen, standing next to the old Canoness model she's as tall as the torch on the old girls back pack. Fine for new stuff I guess, and definitely the look of what's to come. With my mountain of painted metal Sisters I don't think I will be needing anything but possibly new vehicles. If we see entirely new units, I may have to convert what I can but the new models look (to me) to be almost like putting Primaris next to old style marines.
Interesting. I wonder if it's only her since this is a heroic model and not necessarily to be used on the table top.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/03 15:09:27
I had her in my hands in the store when I realized she'd be almost $40 with tax... my entire monthly budget for the hobby! Maybe with a special stat line or rule of some sort, or even just a hard to convert war gear option... but for a basic Sister Superior with bolt gun, no thanks.
Look forward to painting her up when I get back home and can get her.
As for playing her in games; I plan on slapping on a couple of the custom character rules from CA18 onto her just to make her interesting.
MacPhail wrote: I had her in my hands in the store when I realized she'd be almost $40 with tax... my entire monthly budget for the hobby! Maybe with a special stat line or rule of some sort, or even just a hard to convert war gear option... but for a basic Sister Superior with bolt gun, no thanks.
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
Nothing is probably worth the cost of well deployed and well delivered Arcoflagellants, but I like what you get in return here.
