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Waaaghpower wrote:
Against nuMarines, can Sisters of Battle really stand a chance? Since our biggest defense comes from having power armor, which doctrines shred without much effort, I'm worried that sisters are going to be left out in the cold against the most popular army, making them pretty unviable in tournaments until we get a new codex.

They could do with going back to the old 3e style of balance - cheap enough that elite units are wasted killing them, with ways to defend vital units where needed and bolster the strength of others so that they aren't reliant on any given squad that might get easily picked off.

And as usual the effectiveness of flamers and meltas. No sign so far that sisters are getting anything else.

 Mr Morden wrote:

It all depends on if they give them the same power boost as Marines got. They do seem to be putting in a good amount of effort on the range - lets hope the rules people are allowed a few hours away from the latest marine project is.

if we get Marine style Docterines or a much better Acts of Faith system, more strats and relics, some more options and a small upgrade on Order tactics but most importantly having them work on Order Vehicles as well. I think Sisters will be a good place.

So what you are saying is... Sisters won't get this. Because none of the GW rules writers talk to each other. So unless the SM 2.0 writer was doing double duty and writing two codexes at once. Then the sisters dex and whichever dex comes out after them will be similar in power to the CSM 2.0 book. Becuase that was the standard at time of writing.

As an aside with the Imagifier validity argument. They literally said in a FAQ that has been quited that you can use the imagifier from the index. Otherwise the answer to the FAQ of "How do I use the index Imagifier" would have been "You can't" rather than "Use it like this."

 Jancoran wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
The index flow chart is a general rule.

The rule saying not to use the independent immagifer is a codex rule.

Codex trumps general.

Argument done.

...and you lose. Comprehension. Try it.

Wow.

And this from the guy (you) who doesn't comprehend the basic rules of the game.

Well, no point in continuing this 'debate'.

balmong7 wrote:
So what you are saying is... Sisters won't get this. Because none of the GW rules writers talk to each other. So unless the SM 2.0 writer was doing double duty and writing two codexes at once. Then the sisters dex and whichever dex comes out after them will be similar in power to the CSM 2.0 book. Becuase that was the standard at time of writing.

It's always going to be complete pot luck in terms of the sisters power level. Not as if being brought out in the middle of the taudar era did the ebook sisters any good for instance, and the white dwarf sisters were crammed between 5e grey knights and 5e necrons (with copy/paste from the gk dex no less).

Honestly I just hope the beta codex wasn't their intended finished product the the beta just to try out non soulburst faith.

 Mmmpi wrote:
The index flow chart is a general rule.

The rule saying not to use the independent immagifer is a codex rule.

Codex trumps general.

Argument done.

You're arguing with a guy that insists he can change keywords to whatever he wants

 Mmmpi wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
The index flow chart is a general rule.

The rule saying not to use the independent immagifer is a codex rule.

Codex trumps general.

Argument done.

...and you lose. Comprehension. Try it.

Wow.

And this from the guy (you) who doesn't comprehend the basic rules of the game.

Well, no point in continuing this 'debate'.

What debate. I just gave you every rule there is on the subject. Just read it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grundz wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
The index flow chart is a general rule.

The rule saying not to use the independent immagifer is a codex rule.

Codex trumps general.

Argument done.

You're arguing with a guy that insists he can change keywords to whatever he wants

I didn't. But you can continue on this line...again...if you want to.

 Jancoran wrote:


What debate. I just gave you every rule there is on the subject. Just read it.

Which will be invalidated by warhammer legends by the time you finish your newest temper tantrum in a week or so
If its not in the codex, you don't get to run it in matched play is basically what they put across the table.

Grundz wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:


What debate. I just gave you every rule there is on the subject. Just read it.

Which will be invalidated by warhammer legends by the time you finish your newest temper tantrum in a week or so
If its not in the codex, you don't get to run it in matched play is basically what they put across the table.

Grundz wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
The index flow chart is a general rule.

The rule saying not to use the independent immagifer is a codex rule.

Codex trumps general.

Argument done.

You're arguing with a guy that insists he can change keywords to whatever he wants

Ok, i'm one for calling out things and i know we burn heretics but by the emperor you can not burn someone that badly on dakka. Put away the Immolators please.

 Grundz wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
The index flow chart is a general rule.

The rule saying not to use the independent immagifer is a codex rule.

Codex trumps general.

Argument done.

You're arguing with a guy that insists he can change keywords to whatever he wants

Yeah, realized that and stopped. Thanks for the heads up though!

Oh, man, here we go again... so it'll be two, maybe three pages before the tactics pick up again? C'mon, team!

 MacPhail wrote:
Oh, man, here we go again... so it'll be two, maybe three pages before the tactics pick up again? C'mon, team!

Nope, lets end it here.

I'll start, i normally use Arcos all the time, but i'm seeing a lot more use Repentia, for those that do use them over Arcos, why and how do they do for you? I like the Arcos better mostly b.c of the value of wounds and Trigger word stratagem, with a priest near, 9 attacks each is just insane imo. Looking what you think?

I've had better use of Repentia because my meta needs the AP more than the sheer volume of attacks. I run into quite a few scattered five man primarus and marine squads, never close enough to hit more than one per Repentia squad. This ends up leaving Arcos as over kill in many cases, and requires more resources from me.

Against a horde unit/tough unit, both can make good use of a priest, but I find a smaller acro unit still needs the priest against battle squads, while a smaller repentia unit does not.

 Grundz wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:


What debate. I just gave you every rule there is on the subject. Just read it.

Which will be invalidated by warhammer legends by the time you finish your newest temper tantrum in a week or so
If its not in the codex, you don't get to run it in matched play is basically what they put across the table.

Oh man... You need to get to more events.

But WHEN it comes out we can have THAT discussion. In the meantime you're just wrong.

What's that buzzing noise?

 Mmmpi wrote:
What's that buzzing noise?

I dont know man
I'm here making a tourney list from the custodes beta release not the current release because stuff got nerfed.

Why? because I say I can

 Mmmpi wrote:
I've had better use of Repentia because my meta needs the AP more than the sheer volume of attacks. I run into quite a few scattered five man primarus and marine squads, never close enough to hit more than one per Repentia squad. This ends up leaving Arcos as over kill in many cases, and requires more resources from me.

Against a horde unit/tough unit, both can make good use of a priest, but I find a smaller acro unit still needs the priest against battle squads, while a smaller repentia unit does not.

The other thing is that in ITC you don't want to fill your list with characters if you can avoid it
however I don't have the AP problem, In all of my tourney games I usually thew like 6 arcos at a knight after charging with the transport and took a good chunk of it out.
I should give repentia another shake, arcos are just more metal so I like them more, but with a transport I'm still tempted to try 2 pen engines instead

 Grundz wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
What's that buzzing noise?

I dont know man
I'm here making a tourney list from the custodes beta release not the current release because stuff got nerfed.

Why? because I say I can

 Mmmpi wrote:
I've had better use of Repentia because my meta needs the AP more than the sheer volume of attacks. I run into quite a few scattered five man primarus and marine squads, never close enough to hit more than one per Repentia squad. This ends up leaving Arcos as over kill in many cases, and requires more resources from me.

Against a horde unit/tough unit, both can make good use of a priest, but I find a smaller acro unit still needs the priest against battle squads, while a smaller repentia unit does not.

The other thing is that in ITC you don't want to fill your list with characters if you can avoid it
however I don't have the AP problem, In all of my tourney games I usually thew like 6 arcos at a knight after charging with the transport and took a good chunk of it out.
I should give repentia another shake, arcos are just more metal so I like them more, but with a transport I'm still tempted to try 2 pen engines instead

Yeah i tend to not need AP much either, but with all these new Marines, that might change.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Yeah i tend to not need AP much either, but with all these new Marines, that might change.

From what I've seen so far, they are everywhere since 2.0 hit.

 dracpanzer wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Yeah i tend to not need AP much either, but with all these new Marines, that might change.

From what I've seen so far, they are everywhere since 2.0 hit.

which is sort of fine, sisters line up semi closely with marines, -1 T/S and twice as many bolters for halfish as many points. What bugs me is their easy accessibility to -ap, which really harms sisters main benefit, really good saves for the points. Having a 4++ all the time is unrealistic with our current rules and a 5++ is going to be hit a lot more often with tons of -2ap bolters and heavy bolters out there grinding up lots of sisters.

 Grundz wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Yeah i tend to not need AP much either, but with all these new Marines, that might change.

From what I've seen so far, they are everywhere since 2.0 hit.

which is sort of fine, sisters line up semi closely with marines, -1 T/S and twice as many bolters for halfish as many points. What bugs me is their easy accessibility to -ap, which really harms sisters main benefit, really good saves for the points. Having a 4++ all the time is unrealistic with our current rules and a 5++ is going to be hit a lot more often with tons of -2ap bolters and heavy bolters out there grinding up lots of sisters.

Bolter Discipline or whatever they call it skews the numbers a bit. They are quite good at deleting dismounted squads as soon as the girls hit the table. She who bails...

 Grundz wrote:
which is sort of fine, sisters line up semi closely with marines, -1 T/S and twice as many bolters for halfish as many points. What bugs me is their easy accessibility to -ap, which really harms sisters main benefit, really good saves for the points. Having a 4++ all the time is unrealistic with our current rules and a 5++ is going to be hit a lot more often with tons of -2ap bolters and heavy bolters out there grinding up lots of sisters.

Having played deathwatch for a bit (aka bolter focussed marines) the gap between them and the current sisters is significant. While you only get half as many models they are still rolling 3++ and multiwound 2+ wound soakers, and until the bolter rule was changed their ability to sit back further enhanced survivability.

Regular marines are of course shifting towards the multiwound primaris and how they compare to the sisters is somewhat dependent on the multi-wound weapons in the game, but as the sisters themselves are only delivering one wound at a time they are coming in at the lowest level in a straight up shoot out. It'll be interesting to see if the salamanders also take their flamer/melta crown.

A.T. wrote:

Regular marines are of course shifting towards the multiwound primaris and how they compare to the sisters is somewhat dependent on the multi-wound weapons in the game, but as the sisters themselves are only delivering one wound at a time they are coming in at the lowest level in a straight up shoot out. It'll be interesting to see if the salamanders also take their flamer/melta crown.

The key for me has been holy bolter dominions and/or seraphim
cp for either of them to do some pretty severe to evaporate a squad worth 4 times as many points.
Sisters were in the odd spot where they had cheap infantry that was also hard to remove, most anti horde bounced off their armor save and anti tank was a waste, with primaris boys being basically better sisters and can threaten bigger targets with much better guns and stratagems, Its going to be a tough time for sisters unless the new book is dramatically different. People will be bringing the firepower to deal with a ton of power armor wounds across the table, and meltas/flamers only get you so far when we don't get them at a discount.

When I see imperial fists centurions spamming a hundred thousand bolter shots with good ap, exploding dice and mortal wounds and just enough ap to bring them to their invulnerable, that solves every problem that pure sisters can present, you're only choice is to hope you brought enough exo's and hunter killers

"You may also have noticed that over the course of the series, we’ve hinted at loads of other models that aren’t in this set. That’s because this is actually only the (mind-blowingly awesome) vanguard of an expanded Adepta Sororitas range yet to come."

it appears GW has stated that there will be some new models added to the range

New sculprs perhaps. Dunno about new units unless they add repressors to the codex, which would be nice.

So...any thoughts on "battle box" tactics?
Either as stand alone for small games, or as a detachment for larger ones?

The lack of transports for the flagellents and repentia makes them seem harder to use, compared to fully built armies.

Is anyone else concerned by the apparent lack of Inferno Pistols and Hand Flamers on the seraphim? We're shown Storm Bolters and Flamers for the battle sisters, so we know they're getting at least some of their special weapons, but nothing on the Seraphim that I've seen.

 Mmmpi wrote:
So...any thoughts on "battle box" tactics?
Either as stand alone for small games, or as a detachment for larger ones?

The lack of transports for the flagellents and repentia makes them seem harder to use, compared to fully built armies.

Honestly i think its just a box for new models and nothing else.

 Jancoran wrote:
New sculprs perhaps. Dunno about new units unless they add repressors to the codex, which would be nice.

I'm not holding my breath for this, fire points points plus melta spam seems too good. I'd be happy with a non Canoness HQ option with a fun aura and a celestian profile that doesn't suck.

 MacPhail wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
New sculprs perhaps. Dunno about new units unless they add repressors to the codex, which would be nice.

I'm not holding my breath for this, fire points points plus melta spam seems too good. I'd be happy with a non Canoness HQ option with a fun aura and a celestian profile that doesn't suck.

He's not the type to let a little thing like the rules stop him


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mmmpi wrote:
So...any thoughts on "battle box" tactics?
Either as stand alone for small games, or as a detachment for larger ones?

The lack of transports for the flagellents and repentia makes them seem harder to use, compared to fully built armies.

If you run the sisters as celestian, its a vanguard detachment, I guess that counts for something (?)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

A.T. wrote:


And as usual the effectiveness of flamers and meltas. No sign so far that sisters are getting anything else.

The problem I am seeing right now is that we pay a premium for flamers and melta, and don't really have any way to buff them outside holy trinity, which is niche at best.
Sisters are right now kind of a brick, where anti horde can't really dislodge them from cover, and anti marine stuff is wasted. But with marines on foot on the up and up more and more lists will have the tools necessary to deal with mass power armor.

 MacPhail wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
New sculprs perhaps. Dunno about new units unless they add repressors to the codex, which would be nice.

I'm not holding my breath for this, fire points points plus melta spam seems too good. I'd be happy with a non Canoness HQ option with a fun aura and a celestian profile that doesn't suck.

Well APPARENTLY Forge World ISN'T broken according to some. So why EVER would they be broken if put in the codex (this is totally tongue-in-cheek of course)

 Jancoran wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
New sculprs perhaps. Dunno about new units unless they add repressors to the codex, which would be nice.

I'm not holding my breath for this, fire points points plus melta spam seems too good. I'd be happy with a non Canoness HQ option with a fun aura and a celestian profile that doesn't suck.

Well APPARENTLY Forge World ISN'T broken according to some. So why EVER would they be broken if put in the codex (this is totally tongue-in-cheek of course)

Harlequins can have a FULL ARMY of melta guns + open top that can move 22"+ and still shoot without any penalties, you can have 10 transports with Fly, -1 to hit, 4++ can get a 3++ and -2, with 5 dudes shooting 5 meltas without penalty.

Guess what, its not worth it, its not good, players try it and it fails everytime.