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According to the Warhammer.tv stream on twitch you can only use *one* miracle dice per phase. In an age of Eldar and Salamanders re-rolls to hit and wound this seems absurdly low - a literal drop in a bucket of dice!

I read the summary of at rddit, can anyone confirm this?

 Gareth_Evans wrote:
According to the Warhammer.tv stream on twitch you can only use *one* miracle dice per phase. In an age of Eldar and Salamanders re-rolls to hit and wound this seems absurdly low - a literal drop in a bucket of dice!

I read the summary of at rddit, can anyone confirm this?

You generate them once per phase for sure; I would find it very very odd if it was only usable one per phase.

Considering you basically generate one for free and then once in every phase you would use them (shooting, melee) with a chance of generating them during phases you likely won't use one (psychic opponents phase). Combined with the multiple stratagems and convictions for receiving more it would actually get to the point where it is super difficult to use all of them.

If I'm martyred lady and I kill a unit in shooting and fight phase, have a charactor die in op fight phase and unit die in shooting phase, roll a 1 for moral that's 7 for that battle round. I'm going to use one for maybe shooting, fighting and a save in my op shooting and fight phase. Where am I supposed to jam the other three?

 Gareth_Evans wrote:
According to the Warhammer.tv stream on twitch you can only use *one* miracle dice per phase. In an age of Eldar and Salamanders re-rolls to hit and wound this seems absurdly low - a literal drop in a bucket of dice!

I read the summary of at rddit, can anyone confirm this?

They were almost certainly talking about GENERATING dice, not using them, because it would totally be possible to generate more than you could possibly use over the course of the game.

ERJAK wrote:

 Gareth_Evans wrote:
According to the Warhammer.tv stream on twitch you can only use *one* miracle dice per phase. In an age of Eldar and Salamanders re-rolls to hit and wound this seems absurdly low - a literal drop in a bucket of dice!

I read the summary of at rddit, can anyone confirm this?

They were almost certainly talking about GENERATING dice, not using them, because it would totally be possible to generate more than you could possibly use over the course of the game.

OR it could be you can only use one for rerolls once per phase, and they are also a stand in for "faith points" which can be used in other ways

 Grundz wrote:
and they are also a stand in for "faith points" which can be used in other ways

Such as?

Battle sister box was sold out in like 15 minutes, advertising stunt or the meta is gonna be flooded with BS soon?

Comp review here




Summary (ongoing)

Box is side opening - - hmm was hoping it was a top opening
So Mortifier is the variant on Pentent Engine - as thought - hv bolters
Same with Zephrs being Seraphim variants
Canoness can have a Null Rod or Rod of Office
Argent Shroud almost annihilated
Judith is new Canoness Superior
Triumph of St Katherine is as we thought relic guarded by Vererans (18 wounds!)
AOF = 1 per phase, before roll, can not re-roll, use on following: advance, charge, deny, saves, hit, damage, morale, not modifier,
Sacred Rites = must be Ad Min army, choose 1 or roll 2,
Hand of Emp: +1 advance/Charge,
Spirit = 5+ can fire/fight if died
Aegis Deny the Witch has +3
Divine Guide on roll of 6, extera -1 AP
Passion hot of 6 with melee is extra hit
Light: re-roll morale
Cannoness - rod office is plus bolt pistol and sword, Blessed Blade +2 st, -3 AP, D3 Dam, Brazier of fire -1 LD Daemons, overwatch,
Celestine - usual

Tri of St Kath - M6, 3+, 3+ S3, T3, 18 W, 14 attacks, - dim profile, 3+, Bolt pistols, swords, 1 in army. S6 swords, S5 relic weapons, ACts fo Faith etc. -1 to hit, Auto pass Sorotias units relics of all matriarchs
Relics: Gain 1 MD each player turn, MW to enemy units in 6"- bonus against Chaos, +1 to hit with Melee wepaons withi 6, extra AOF per phase within 6, Increase or decrease 1MD with AOF by 1.
Character, no pics

Judith, 10" move, W7, Character, Fly, S5 in melee, re-roll 1's in 6, Invuln +1 to Sororitas saves.

Missonary = 4+ save against fleeing nearby unit

Battle Sisters - max 15, 2 special or 1 hv 1 special, Censor Chrub - intercede - gain 1 miracle die for that unit, Sim Imperalis - extra Act of Faith

Geminae - same
Repentia Superior (Elite), slotless if Repentia.
Repentia - 4 -9 size, 5+FNP and miracel die when unit dies.
Celestain - same, rerolls when near Cannoness

Zephrhim - Melee Serpahim, powerswords and bolt pistols, re-roll wounds against everything, Deepstrike, no pics
Dialogus - +1S staff, +1 LD within 6", 5+ FNP against Mortals her only, re-roll morale,can increase / decrease a MD by 1 used in AOF within 6"
Hospitalier - same,

Imagifier - start if game choose one of three tales:
1, re-roll Deny within 6", 2.-1Ap is 0 whilst within 6" 3. +1 strength within 6"

Crusaders -5+ FNP against MW
Death Cults - same
Arco -Frag -now has squad leader, 5+ FNP

Doms - still 4 special and Vanguard,
Serpah - same

Exoricist, 48" range Conflag missiles: HV 3d6 S5, -2AP, Exorcist Hv 3D3, S8, -3 AP HAS AOF and Shield of Faith

Mortifiers 9" move, Hv Bolter Pen Engines - can have squad leader, 3+ save, -1-6 in unit, flails plus Hv Bolters or Hv flamers or buzz blades rather than flails, 6+FNP, can have Assault HV Bolters or pistol Hv Flamers

Retributors - NO pens for move and fire with Hv weapons, +4 " to hv flamer range, 1-2 cherubs - shoot again with one model

Batle Sanctum - terrain - +1 MD if units within 6, +1 LD to AD Sor and -1LD to Chaos within 6" no pics

Order Convs - can inclue Ad Min units without screwing them up
Val Heart - 6+ FNP, -1AP = 0AP stacks with Imagifers so -2 = 0.
Bloody= extra -1 with melee /Bolt pistols, +1 A when charged or charging
Ebon 5+ FNP againt MW, discard a MD - other MD is a 6
Sacred Rose: No more than 1 flee, when use MD on a 5+ get it back, Overwatch on 5+

The sisters are basically Aegis of the emperor or nothing when it comes to deny the witch, not great.

No eviscerators, no jump packs, damn it. Even celestine can't deepstrike.

Eviscerator had more firepower but looks to be 170pts, 6++. Most of the other stuff hasn't gone down in cost including things like the multimeltas.


Not seeing what this army does against a big gunline other than try to get a shot off with the exorcists before they are wrecked and basically hide and pray for the rest of the game.

Yep
The miracle dice freakout was unnecessary, every single squad for the most part has an option to use more than the 1 per phase, as well as several abilities that let you use more or modify the dice

I'm curious as to the actual wording of the ressurrect stratagem

do we get to bring celestine back a second time? is it just non named characters? what is the wording of the return?

we also lost evicerators which is a big hit to suicide canonesses =/


Automatically Appended Next Post:

A.T. wrote:
The sisters are basically Aegis of the emperor or nothing when it comes to deny the witch, not great.

No eviscerators, no jump packs, damn it. Even celestine can't deepstrike.

Eviscerator had more firepower but looks to be 170pts, 6++. Most of the other stuff hasn't gone down in cost including things like the multimeltas.

It got a lot more average shots, not 50 points more, but we'll see, at 170 you obviously won't be taking 3x of them at all times.

it sounded like there was an argent shroud(?) relic that gives -1 to hit but it wasn't clear if it was just that model or if it was an aura, T8 / 12W/ 4++ / -1 to hit is plenty tough

Heavy flamer rets are absolutely absurd

 Grundz wrote:
Yep
The miracle dice freakout was unnecessary, every single squad for the most part has an option to use more than the 1 per phase, as well as several abilities that let you use more or modify the dice

I'm curious as to the actual wording of the ressurrect stratagem

do we get to bring celestine back a second time? is it just non named characters? what is the wording of the return?

we also lost evicerators which is a big hit to suicide canonesses =/


Automatically Appended Next Post:

A.T. wrote:
The sisters are basically Aegis of the emperor or nothing when it comes to deny the witch, not great.

No eviscerators, no jump packs, damn it. Even celestine can't deepstrike.

Eviscerator had more firepower but looks to be 170pts, 6++. Most of the other stuff hasn't gone down in cost including things like the multimeltas.

It got a lot more average shots, not 50 points more, but we'll see, at 170 you obviously won't be taking 3x of them at all times.

it sounded like there was an argent shroud(?) relic that gives -1 to hit but it wasn't clear if it was just that model or if it was an aura, T8 / 12W/ 4++ / -1 to hit is plenty tough

Heavy flamer rets are absolutely absurd

When you guys say Eviscerator 'has more shots but not 50 points more', do you mean Exorcists?

 Grundz wrote:
it sounded like there was an argent shroud(?) relic that gives -1 to hit but it wasn't clear if it was just that model or if it was an aura, T8 / 12W/ 4++ / -1 to hit is plenty tough

Item is character only, save buffs work on infantry only.

 Grundz wrote:
Heavy flamer rets are absolutely absurd

They are identical to the old heavy flamer rets, save for 4 extra inches of range.
Absurd is salamanders putting out 12+ mortal wounds from a single flamer model. A non-deepstriking infantry unit with 12" range heavy flamers is a nice buff but also incredibly mundane.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grundz wrote:
Yep
The miracle dice freakout was unnecessary, every single squad for the most part has an option to use more than the 1 per phase, as well as several abilities that let you use more or modify the dice

With a cherub and simulacrum you are paying 11 points a model for battle sisters.

That gets you one miracle dice per game and lets the squad use a miracle dice if another already has.

A.T. wrote:

 Grundz wrote:
Heavy flamer rets are absolutely absurd

They are identical to the old heavy flamer rets, save for 4 extra inches of range.

4 heavy flamers firing 6 times total
autorolling 6's for shots
12" range
rerolling wounds
+1 to wound if you setup the minisquad for trinity

 Grundz wrote:
4 heavy flamers firing 6 times total
autorolling 6's for shots
12" range
rerolling wounds
+1 to wound if you setup the minisquad for trinity

Firstly - that combination is literally impossible.
Secondly - that use of faith is literally impossible
Thirdly - even if you discount the first two points, it would cost you a games worth of miracle 6s, 3-4 command points, and several one-use only squad upgrades to kill... 6 primaris marines, give or take (before FnP, cover, etc). I mean it's nothing to sniff at but it's not happening.

A.T. wrote:

 Grundz wrote:
4 heavy flamers firing 6 times total
autorolling 6's for shots
12" range
rerolling wounds
+1 to wound if you setup the minisquad for trinity

Firstly - that combination is literally impossible.
Secondly - that use of faith is literally impossible
Thirdly - even if you discount the first two points, it would cost you a games worth of miracle 6s, 3-4 command points, and several one-use only squad upgrades to kill... 6 primaris marines, give or take (before FnP, cover, etc). I mean it's nothing to sniff at but it's not happening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5HYiOh2550
timestamp 1:07:00

nice try though!

 Grundz wrote:
nice try though!

Try not to get too pleased with yourself, the point stands that it's a very poor return on all the setup even if it can be done.

A.T. wrote:

 Grundz wrote:
nice try though!

Try not to get too pleased with yourself, the point stands that it's a very poor return on all the setup even if it can be done.

Really? Because as far as I understand all of your wild hyperbole posts in the last several days have proven false, I'm just curious how much it will take for you to admit being wrong once.

You're looking at

17 wounds vs primaris marines
10 wounds vs custodes
12 wounds vs any T7/8 3+ vehicle
28+ wounds vs orks

seems worth 3ish cp and a ~100pt or so squad that is pretty suicidal to charge afterwards.
especially considering you can do this on overwatch too, thats pretty much a ret squad can stand there and tank a melee knight and take no wounds in return

 Grundz wrote:
Really? Because as far as I understand all of your wild hyperbole posts in the last several days have proven false

Quote em if you can find em, i've not deleted or edited anything.


The problem with the heavy flamers is not the cost (which may well be closer to 200 - remember to add the combi-melta, extra sister, banner, and two cherubs to that, plus and transport/ablative wounds) - it's the six miracle dice rolls of 6 you have to generate to use it. On average that means you have to be 36 miracle dice deep into the game and holding all of your 6s back, or else spending CPs elsewhere to generate or modify more.

The sisters are going to look very very powerful if every new tactic involves a large pool of pre-rolled 6s, like the 54 wounds the exorcist can inflict with a dozen of them, but they are a finite and unreliable resource.

A.T. wrote:
it's the six miracle dice rolls of 6 you have to generate to use it. On average that means you have to be 36 miracle dice deep into the game and holding all of your 6s back, or else spending CPs elsewhere to generate or modify more.

I think you mean zero miracle dice

 Grundz wrote:
I think you mean zero miracle dice

Then where do the autorolling 6s for hits come from? Your post was short on specifics.

A.T. wrote:

 Grundz wrote:
I think you mean zero miracle dice

Then where do the autorolling 6s for hits come from? Your post was short on specifics.

if only I had followed up with the information you requested

Also while I wasn't sold on new bloody rose, it seems if you can roll the synergy train up things can get real nasty

like zeraphim

2 power sword attacks +1 missionary +1 bloody rose
S4 with an imigifier, rerolling 1's to hit with a canoness or stratagem, rerolling all wounds
-1T on the bad guys if your warlord helps out
extra -1ap on the pistols and swords
extra swing on a hit of 6
thats pretty killy for a 16(?) point model

miracle dice means you can semi-reliably charge from outside of flamer range and such as well

 Grundz wrote:
if only I had followed up with the information you requested

Thank you for, in a very roundabout way, clarifying your post.

As you had quoted 3 command points for the combo and were already using 2 for the rerolls and 1 for holy trinity I wasn't looking any the stratagems.

I'm quite annoyed that immolators now need a heavy bolter... Why invalidate the original model when you could just have made it an option? Now you may often waste 10 points on a weapon you can't shoot when advancing. Also, wysiwyg is lame now...

Other than that, the codex looks great. Very happy with all the options I saw when skimming through that review. Shame that the pulpit is one order only, but I can live with that.

Us3Less wrote:
I'm quite annoyed that immolators now need a heavy bolter... Why invalidate the original model when you could just have made it an option? Now you may often waste 10 points on a weapon you can't shoot when advancing. Also, wysiwyg is lame now...

Other than that, the codex looks great. Very happy with all the options I saw when skimming through that review. Shame that the pulpit is one order only, but I can live with that.

I am printing out some hull Hbolters for mine right now :x

Well, it's better than the beta codex at least. And 1 chapter approved of fixes could see us be competitive. That's about all I expected so it's fine.

ERJAK wrote:
Well, it's better than the beta codex at least. And 1 chapter approved of fixes could see us be competitive. That's about all I expected so it's fine.

We haven't even seen a single game played with this codex. Lets hold off before we declare the book non-competitive.

I'm already looking at the Valorous Heart trait and Imagifer combo as being a serious threat to the current marine meta. Ignoring AP-2 is huge versus marines. Sit in cover and you'll be getting a 2+ vs the majority of your enemies weaponry. That's bonkers good. And that's just something I've thought of after watching a video of someone flicking through the book. There will be some beasty combos in this book.

You can also ruin psyker heavy armies with that +3 to deny Sacred Right and Cannoness's with Null Rods. You'll be denying almost everything.

I'm thrilled personally, only slight disappointment is that squad heavy weapons seem a bit pricey and that Battle Sanctum was terrain and not the flyer from the art that we we're hoping it was. But yeah, varied traits, a ton of different playstyles, 2/3rds of the characters aren't locked to one Order. I'm thrilled with this (and double thrilled I managed to snag to box).

IanVanCheese wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
Well, it's better than the beta codex at least. And 1 chapter approved of fixes could see us be competitive. That's about all I expected so it's fine.

We haven't even seen a single game played with this codex. Lets hold off before we declare the book non-competitive.

I'm already looking at the Valorous Heart trait and Imagifer combo as being a serious threat to the current marine meta. Ignoring AP-2 is huge versus marines. Sit in cover and you'll be getting a 2+ vs the majority of your enemies weaponry. That's bonkers good. And that's just something I've thought of after watching a video of someone flicking through the book. There will be some beasty combos in this book.

it takes about 1000 bolter rounds to kill 150 sisters out of cover, without rezzing anyone, giving -1 to hit, or any of the other shananagins we can pull Ignoring ap-2 brings something like a crusader down to killing virtually nothing XD

 Grundz wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
Well, it's better than the beta codex at least. And 1 chapter approved of fixes could see us be competitive. That's about all I expected so it's fine.

We haven't even seen a single game played with this codex. Lets hold off before we declare the book non-competitive.

I'm already looking at the Valorous Heart trait and Imagifer combo as being a serious threat to the current marine meta. Ignoring AP-2 is huge versus marines. Sit in cover and you'll be getting a 2+ vs the majority of your enemies weaponry. That's bonkers good. And that's just something I've thought of after watching a video of someone flicking through the book. There will be some beasty combos in this book.

it takes about 1000 bolter rounds to kill 150 sisters out of cover, without rezzing anyone, giving -1 to hit, or any of the other shananagins we can pull Ignoring ap-2 brings something like a crusader down to killing virtually nothing XD

Oh good, we can camp on objectives and not kill anything EVEN HARDER now. Grand.

Anyone find the dominion Datasheet yet? Because GMG guy's review didn't say their vehicles get vanguard which would kill dominions as a unit. And mech sisters as a concept.

Us3Less wrote:
I'm quite annoyed that immolators now need a heavy bolter... Why invalidate the original model when you could just have made it an option?.

Are you really asking? Lol.

 Jancoran wrote:

Us3Less wrote:
I'm quite annoyed that immolators now need a heavy bolter... Why invalidate the original model when you could just have made it an option?.

Are you really asking? Lol.

It's not like you'll ever take one anymore. Not with dominions no longer conferring scout to vehicles.

Unless they went down to like 60pts with a twin multimelta.

I'm actually torn as to which order to go with. Fluff wise my orders a combination of Ebon Chalice and Bloody Rose. Bloody Rose extra attack and ap in nice; but ECs ability to burn a crappy MD to make one an auto 6 is quite attractive too.
Dare I say....it doesn't look like there any clear blatant winners here but a lot of viable options. Good weird.
Definitely feel the dex still favours boots over vehicles again though. Sad face.