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ERJAK wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

Us3Less wrote:
I'm quite annoyed that immolators now need a heavy bolter... Why invalidate the original model when you could just have made it an option?.

Are you really asking? Lol.

It's not like you'll ever take one anymore. Not with dominions no longer conferring scout to vehicles.

Unless they went down to like 60pts with a twin multimelta.

I was referring to money. The reason is money.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
I'm actually torn as to which order to go with. Fluff wise my orders a combination of Ebon Chalice and Bloody Rose. Bloody Rose extra attack and ap in nice; but ECs ability to burn a crappy MD to make one an auto 6 is quite attractive too.
Dare I say....it doesn't look like there any clear blatant winners here but a lot of viable options. Good weird.
Definitely feel the dex still favours boots over vehicles again though. Sad face.

Maybe the intent was to NOT INVALIDATE boots. I mean Codex's that don't allow for success in both ways make me more sad than ones that let you do both.

Going through the stratagems we have

11 Useless ones
8 Mediocre or uninmpressive ones
5 pretty good ones
8 good ones

3-4 relics are decent the rest are crap.

Also, WHY IS MAXING OUT FLAMER SHOTS EBON CHALICE SPECIFIC!!??!?!

Immolators went up 12 points when they were about 15 too high before and gaining sacred rights and convictions does basically nothing for them. I'd say just keep taking repressors instead but with dominions not in the codex anymore I'd just go straight rhino and save on points.

I get why retributors went up, but considering battle sisters in general aren't worth 9 anyway that sucks.

Dominions being 10 is stupid when they can't vanguard anymore(vanguard on foot isn't a thing.)

Characters are fine except hospitaller is still poopy.

Celestians are still useless (oh but they can reroll hits AND wounds. For what attacks? Bolters? No one cares Karen.)

Seraphim staying 11 is fine with HF down to 1.

Arcos for 13 is great no complaint there.

Geminae superia are still the worst unit in the game. I wouldn't take them if they were FREE.

Repentia at 13 is okay.

Zephyrim at 13+unit upgrades is a joke considering they don't actually do anything. Even with everything they have going for them I still would rather shell out for a rhino and a priest for arcos.

No one's going to blow a whole detachment on a battle sanctum so who cares what that costs.

Simulacrums are basically mandatory at 5.

Exorcists at 140 for the anti-infantry and 170 for the anti-tank are overpriced by about 10 and 25pts respectively but whaddya gonna do? It's the only thing in the army that does what it does. The loss of the 4++ means they're basically just pinatas for your opponent tho.

The triumph of saint katherine is stupid. It's a dumb gimmick they made so that painters will have something Sister's-y to submit to golden daemons. If you see one on a table it'll be for approximately 1 shooting attacks. It will never get into melee against a non-daemon army. Against a daemon army it'll die before it swings. The buffs it give are pointless because none of the units in the army that can actually use miracle dice are any good.

Celestine is still 20pts too expensive. At least she's not as much of a target now.

Mortifiers and penitent engines are pretty much the best units in the book. I could see the most competitive lists being 12-24 of these in different combinations. The value you're getting out of 56pts per pengine and 56pts for a basic mortifier and 62 for the leader is actually pretty nuts.


It's pretty funny that all the effort put into the convictions and miracle dice and sacred rites and all that other crap and the 3 best units in the book(arcos, mortifiers, pengines) are the ones that can't use any of it.

So to build a competitive sisters of battle army first you want a knight crusader and 2 armigers, then you want 12 penitent vehicles in your preferred combos, then get some battle sisters for detachments or whatever and once you get the lame crap out of the way, if you have more points left over get more penitent stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jancoran wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

Us3Less wrote:
I'm quite annoyed that immolators now need a heavy bolter... Why invalidate the original model when you could just have made it an option?.

Are you really asking? Lol.

It's not like you'll ever take one anymore. Not with dominions no longer conferring scout to vehicles.

Unless they went down to like 60pts with a twin multimelta.

I was referring to money. The reason is money.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
I'm actually torn as to which order to go with. Fluff wise my orders a combination of Ebon Chalice and Bloody Rose. Bloody Rose extra attack and ap in nice; but ECs ability to burn a crappy MD to make one an auto 6 is quite attractive too.
Dare I say....it doesn't look like there any clear blatant winners here but a lot of viable options. Good weird.
Definitely feel the dex still favours boots over vehicles again though. Sad face.

Maybe the intent was to NOT INVALIDATE boots. I mean Codex's that don't allow for success in both ways make me more sad than ones that let you do both.

So why'd they invalidate mech instead?

But did they? I dont see that.

Lots of cool stuff in that vid; thanks for posting it!

Some things that caught my eye:

Tanks get everything! Sacred Rites, Acts of Faith, Shield of Faith, and Order Convictions. So, given that Spirit of the Martyr and Stoic Endurance both say 'model', not infantry, that would mean our Exorcists can potentially get a last-gasp shot off, and can also get a 6+ FNP. Delicious.

Hand of the Emps giving +1 to Advances and Charges could be good coupled with Holy Rage letting you advance and charge... then you have the Repentia who can reroll the distances if there's a Superior around. Given that Advance and Charge are in separate phases, you could AoF them both... lots of dice, but that's Repentia going 26" on foot. Also, 13" Charge could be a handy thing to have in your pocket given overwatch.

Our Deny is always D6 now, but d6 + 3 is pretty good. Combine that with Null Rod, Pure of Will and the Brazier and you have -4 to PT as well. It's certainly possible to make a 'screw you psykers' list, and delightfully we have strategems to pick Relics and Warlord Traits during the battle, and also roll to swap a Sacred Rite. So you can just pull all that out of thin air if you see psykers coming. Oh, and you can pick a reroll from the Imagifier.

Really like the 'Extra Warlord Trait' and 'Extra Imagifier Litany' ones

Holy Trinity doesn't seem to say 'another model' any more, so Combi-Flamer Superior should trigger it. Burning Descent has become Deadly Descent and adds to the range of ALL pistols; 12" Infernos are a go!

The Blessed Blade has the exact same stats as the old Blade of Admonition; new Blade has Dam3 instead of D3, so it's still an upgrade, but not the massive step up it used to be.

Iron Surplice relic seems very good: 2+ save, can't be wounded on an unmodified 1, 2, or 3 regardless of weapon characteristics. Handy for our low T gals, and given that we have the means to ignore up to AP -2 you could actually make a seriously resilient Canoness.

Zephyrim, particularly Blood Rose ones, look interesting. Reroll charges, reroll wounds, power weapons. +1A from Bloody Rose, extra -1AP, can get +1S from an Imagifier and +1A from a Preacher (if they can keep up!), can get +1 to wound from the BR strategem... resource intensive, but could be tasty.

Retributors in Argent Shroud have quite the flamer range; certainly something I want to try. And in Ebon Chalice, too; 36 hits for 2 cherubs and 2CP? Yeah, go on then.

Best thing is I think I'm only scratching the surface! Can't wait to get the actual book in my hands rather than squinting at a Youtube video!

ERJAK wrote:
whine whine whine whine whine

Anything constructive to add, or is it just going to be hyperbolic bs today?

Are we certain that Dominions lost the transport thing, or are we going off of the GMG video where he sorta glossed over the rule and didn't say much?

Also, I was using a phone to watch it so I couldn't read anything.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Are we certain that Dominions lost the transport thing, or are we going off of the GMG video where he sorta glossed over the rule and didn't say much?

I looked through a couple of other videos and found a brief but clearer look at the vanguard entry on the BoLS video. The vehicle rules are gone.

Looking at the tekst and what he reads, it seems that he read the full vanguard rule, I'm about 95% certain the vanguard rule isn't transferred to any transports, which would indeed be a real shame. The rules for dominions are Vanguard, the simulacrum and the cherub. For the latter two the rules tekst looks identical to the regular sister squad so that won't hide special vanguard rules.

We can hope that it was oversight and will be corrected in the FAQ that drops two weeks after the codex.

Ah, well. My all-foot Sororitas army only ran 2 Immolators for my Dominion squads. Now I can save a load of points by dropping them and possibly using Argent Shroud.

Alternatively, can use MM RETs in an Argent Shroud repressor. 12" melta range, ignore movement penalties, both repressor and retributors can fire with no penalties after advancing, and (possibly, forget the rules on this?) can use strat to make 18" melta range...

actually the last part probably isn't possible.

A.T. wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Are we certain that Dominions lost the transport thing, or are we going off of the GMG video where he sorta glossed over the rule and didn't say much?

I looked through a couple of other videos and found a brief but clearer look at the vanguard entry on the BoLS video. The vehicle rules are gone.

Does anything else have same rules in current codexes?

 Mr Morden wrote:
Does anything else have same rules in current codexes?

No vehicle specific rules spring to mind. It's mostly deepstrike deployment and redeployment stratagems/traits/etc.

On the subject of dominions it also appears that stormbolters have been dropped from the ranged weapon lists.

A.T. wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Does anything else have same rules in current codexes?

No vehicle specific rules spring to mind. It's mostly deepstrike deployment and redeployment stratagems/traits/etc.

On the subject of dominions it also appears that stormbolters have been dropped from the ranged weapon lists.

So they are only in the Special Weapons list?

Rip. Gonna keep milking that index for all it is worth ...

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
So they are only in the Special Weapons list?

Ranged weapons : Bolt pistol, boltgun, combi-flamer/melta/plasma, condemnor
Pistol weapons : bolt pistol, plasma pistol, inferno pistol, hand flamer* (canoness cannot take handflamers, seraphim/zephyrim cannot take anything but plasma pistols)
Special weapons : storm bolter, meltagun, flamer
Heavy weapons : heavy bolter, multimelta, heavy flamer
Close combat weapons : chainsword, power maul, power sword

The canoness wargear entry looks to be highly specific limited wargear swaps rather than referencing the wargear lists - for instance if you want a rod of office it appears that you must swap your bolt pistol and chainsword for a boltgun and power sword.

I am less worried about Canonesses and more worried about Sister Superiors. 3x Storm Bolter per BSS squad is my bread and butter.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I am less worried about Canonesses and more worried about Sister Superiors. 3x Storm Bolter per BSS squad is my bread and butter.

It seems that with the exception of the exorcist anything that was your bread and butter in the beta codex is now defunct, and even the tanks have slanted strongly towards firepower over survivability.

Rebuild from the ground up. No more castles, no more scouting, no more vessels, and a lot fewer stormbolters.

A.T. wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I am less worried about Canonesses and more worried about Sister Superiors. 3x Storm Bolter per BSS squad is my bread and butter.

It seems that with the exception of the exorcist anything that was your bread and butter in the beta codex is now defunct, and even the tanks have slanted strongly towards firepower over survivability.

Rebuild from the ground up. No more castles, no more scouting, no more vessels, and a lot fewer stormbolters.

Right, so what do you do?

You don't have psykers.
You aren't cheap.
You're not gonna beat Wulfen or Zerks in melee.
Your guns are mediocre.
Your tanks aren't exceptional.

I used to think that Sisters were a sub-12" but-not-in-melee army, as in they excelled in Rapid Fire range of the enemy and in short range firefights.

Fewer SBs means that's been nerfed. Nerfs to Dominions means it is nerfed.

I know you said "rebuild from the ground up" but rebuild into what?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Right, so what do you do?

Pray.

In terms of psykers though the new inquisitor might work well, they have a few abilities that are based on leadership and the sisters have one or two ways to put penalties on.

A.T. wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Right, so what do you do?

Pray.

In terms of psykers though the new inquisitor might work well, they have a few abilities that are based on leadership and the sisters have one or two ways to put penalties on.

I thought about that but a single Inquisitor doesn't do that much.

everything is ruined forever


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ERJAK wrote:

Oh good, we can camp on objectives and not kill anything EVEN HARDER now. Grand.

A win is a win

Well, I’ve made the hardest lists I could come up with using the new Codex.
For those of us who actually like to play to win and be competitive, this new Codex seems like a slap in the face from
GW.
Just my honest opinion.

No deepstrike ability, no Vanguard, just taking taking hits as I move my girls up the field to then take it up the @zz when I finally get close enough to do any damage.
I’ll stop my whining now lol

With the butchering of dominions, there's not a really compelling reason to ever take an immolator ever again. Especially after they got nerfed themselves.

If you want firepower, go retributors in a repressor. If you just need a ride, take a rhino. Both of those vehicles are more or less intact.

I just cannot for the life of me figure out why they would stop dominions from scouting? And if you're going to take away their scout rule, why even still have them in the codex?

They nerfed the vehicles in so many different ways, I really wonder what they saw in playtesting SoB that they completely missed in playtesting marines.

Also, the triumph of saint katherine is just...the dumbest thing.

I mean, provided the Index lets me run storm bolters on Sister Superiors then my list doesn't change much.

Just a load of sisters marching forwards and shooting. My anti-tank changes from Dominions to Retributors I think, and don't really rely on miracle dice. I drop the Immolators and use the points for Dominion bullet-soak bodies as I advance upfield.

I go Argent Shroud, put like 3 Canonesses split around to distribute RR1s, take some neato relics, take the +1 advance and charge, and fill out a brigade detachment.

To kill tanks I can use Rets and Doms on foot with extra sisters (who will be paid for by the Immolator leftover points) and for melee can use repentia and simple bodies to be durable while the Canonesses go clean stuff up.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I mean, provided the Index lets me run storm bolters on Sister Superiors then my list doesn't change much.

Stormbolters and eviscerator options die with the arrival of the warhammer legends book.

You seem to be able to make a blender of a Canoness for only 45 points:

Bloody Rose, give her Beneficence for the Chainsword, take Righteous Rage/Blazing Ire and The Passion. If you can get an Imagifier near you've got 8 or 9 S5 AP-3 D2 attacks with rerolls, possibly rerolling wounds, getting extra hits on 6s, and with access to a +1 to wound Strategem.

Another thing to consider is that the new Blessed Blade has the same stats as the old Blade of Admonition, so it kinda just frees up a Relic slot. Liking the look of the new Emperor's Wrath with the extra shot and AP, but more likely Litanies would be the go-to

Hoc Est Bellum wrote:
Another thing to consider is that the new Blessed Blade has the same stats as the old Blade of Admonition

D3 wounds rather than 3 wounds (the relic blade is still in there).

A.T. wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I mean, provided the Index lets me run storm bolters on Sister Superiors then my list doesn't change much.

Stormbolters and eviscerator options die with the arrival of the warhammer legends book.

Then I can buy them combi weapons. Probably combi-meltas.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Then I can buy them combi weapons. Probably combi-meltas.

Yes.
I'd guess the immediate change would be that you lose a squad or so from your old list due to the higher costs of combi-weapons, multi-melta rets, banners, etc. As you say getting those back from losing your vehicles and going all infantry.

A.T. wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Then I can buy them combi weapons. Probably combi-meltas.

Yes.
I'd guess the immediate change would be that you lose a squad or so from your old list due to the higher costs of combi-weapons, multi-melta rets, banners, etc. As you say getting those back from losing your vehicles and going all infantry.

So indeed, not much changes. Except I get rites and good convictions, with useful stratagems. So overall an improvement, even discounting the unreliable miracle dice.

Hoc Est Bellum wrote:
You seem to be able to make a blender of a Canoness for only 45 points:

a bloody rose canoness sitting back with the relic pistol is pretty close to 4 plasma shots a turn too as long as you are shooting at infantry

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

A.T. wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Then I can buy them combi weapons. Probably combi-meltas.

Yes.
I'd guess the immediate change would be that you lose a squad or so from your old list due to the higher costs of combi-weapons, multi-melta rets, banners, etc. As you say getting those back from losing your vehicles and going all infantry.

So indeed, not much changes. Except I get rites and good convictions, with useful stratagems. So overall an improvement, even discounting the unreliable miracle dice.

The new units though, could be better than average. I am eyeballing the 6 giant robots you can take. Kind of reminds me of the melee Kastellans. I'm not positive about them becuase I literally just haven't seen everything. But I think those need to be tested. Sisters of Battle REALLY don't "do" melee much. Arco-Flagellents have been awesome (to this point) but one unit hardly qualifies as truly committing to that phase. I cant say I hate the price on those, if rumors are true. It's really an interesting prospect. We've been so disappointed for so long when it came to those that we probably aren't expending much time thinking about them now...but should we be?