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Sisters sold out in about 2 hours in the US. It was two minutes or so everywhere else.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I plan to be stabby

*Snip*

Nice breakdown. On the question of overwatch denial, have you considered adding an Inquisitor? Coteaz is amazing and can bring that deny overwatch psychic power to bear. Greyfax isn't bad either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rbstr wrote:
At the same time, my minor disappointment is in that this was an opportunity to expand the army's options and they really just didn't take it. Like, the couple of new HQs are cool, but the army itself didn't add anything except a couple alt-build kits and pretty much kept all the same wargear they've always had.

I disagree. I don't think an opportunity like that was realistic. This was an opportunity to rebuild the faction's base. Over the next couple years I imagine the opportunities to expand it will be more numerous now that the whole foundation of the line will be in readily available plastic kits.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
We have some really solid and really powerful unit choices: beta codex Exorcists, Dominions in general, Seraphim, Celestine, etc.

Of those dominions are now dead in the water and Celestine has lost her main purpose - she's not terrible but i'd have taken a jump canoness with relic blade over her every time if not for the shield buff and fact that jump canonesses don't exist...

Seraphim are improved but also limited to two squads on deepstrike by the stratagem (on turns 2 and 3). They still suffer from the fact that nothing can come down with them or keep up with them in terms of auras compared to the static 'die slowly' infantry list.

Exorcists i'd need to see in games. They are going to get off a better round of first turn shooting... if they get the first turn of shooting - they are easier to shoot off the board and if they get blown up / tied up that's a quarter of your points rather than a sixth of them. I think a high early miracle dice or two on their damage would boost their impact but i'm still not seeing much that gives the sisters dice to work with if they win the initiative.

Hey guys, ordered the new boxset. Usually I play competitive 40k so it would try to so that with sisters as well. Some people here talk about the great shooting of sisters so I gotta ask: what shooting is there?
Atm I am toying with the idea to use a lot of jumpy sisters for frontline pressure.

A.T. wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
We have some really solid and really powerful unit choices: beta codex Exorcists, Dominions in general, Seraphim, Celestine, etc.

Of those dominions are now dead in the water and Celestine has lost her main purpose - she's not terrible but i'd have taken a jump canoness with relic blade over her every time if not for the shield buff and fact that jump canonesses don't exist...

Seraphim are improved but also limited to two squads on deepstrike by the stratagem (on turns 2 and 3). They still suffer from the fact that nothing can come down with them or keep up with them in terms of auras compared to the static 'die slowly' infantry list.

Exorcists i'd need to see in games. They are going to get off a better round of first turn shooting... if they get the first turn of shooting - they are easier to shoot off the board and if they get blown up / tied up that's a quarter of your points rather than a sixth of them. I think a high early miracle dice or two on their damage would boost their impact but i'm still not seeing much that gives the sisters dice to work with if they win the initiative.

I don't think Dominions got significantly worse. Losing a Stormbolter is annoying, losing transport scouting is annoying, but neither are dealbreakers. Strange that they didn't get a specific Strategem (only foot-Sisters apart from the basic Sisters not to get one), but Holy Trinity and Blessed Bolts are still damn solid choices.

If Deadly Descent made the 6" range boost carry into the Shooting Phase I'd be all over the Seraphim with infernos. Still a great choice, but not a clear winner.

I agree about the Exorcists, although I don't think they're significantly easier to kill if you run VH. But if you want guaranteed 6s, you need to run Ebon Chalice with their WL trait. After that I guess you Strategem in Beacon of Faith and hold the Litanies for a 55.5% chance to get a 5 or 6, use the 5 with the Dialogus nearby... It's doable!

Iago40k wrote:
Hey guys, ordered the new boxset. Usually I play competitive 40k so it would try to so that with sisters as well. Some people here talk about the great shooting of sisters so I gotta ask: what shooting is there?

Bolters, meltas, and flamers of all sizes, all standard except for the immolator flamer (which is assault rather than heavy), and the exorcist missile launcher (six krak missiles on average, at AP -3).

Reroll 1 to hit is easy to get, reroll wounds is less common. Sisters typically deal either one wound at a time or d6, and lack snipers or ways to bypass invulnerable saves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hoc Est Bellum wrote:
I don't think Dominions got significantly worse.

They are mechanised scouts who can't scout while mechanised. It's taken 12" off of their starting position and off of the starting position of any immolator or repressor you might want to field.

Now they are just battle sisters with a couple of extra special weapons. Losing 20% of their blessed bolt firepower (if you used them for that) is just icing on the cake.

A.T. wrote:

Iago40k wrote:
Hey guys, ordered the new boxset. Usually I play competitive 40k so it would try to so that with sisters as well. Some people here talk about the great shooting of sisters so I gotta ask: what shooting is there?

Bolters, meltas, and flamers of all sizes, all standard except for the immolator flamer (which is assault rather than heavy), and the exorcist missile launcher (six krak missiles on average, at AP -3).

Reroll 1 to hit is easy to get, reroll wounds is less common. Sisters typically deal either one wound at a time or d6, and lack snipers or ways to bypass invulnerable saves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hoc Est Bellum wrote:
I don't think Dominions got significantly worse.

They are mechanised scouts who can't scout while mechanised. It's taken 12" off of their starting position and off of the starting position of any immolator or repressor you might want to field.

Now they are just battle sisters with a couple of extra special weapons. Losing 20% of their blessed bolt firepower (if you used them for that) is just icing on the cake.

Honestly while the scout move was great if you went first but Ifound if you didn't go first the transports became priority targets. Honestly I rarely ever got one round of shooting out of transport dominions.

Between Miracle dice and cherubs and auras they're probably still decent.

Hey guys, ordered the new boxset. Usually I play competitive 40k so it would try to so that with sisters as well. Some people here talk about the great shooting of sisters so I gotta ask: what shooting is there?
Atm I am toying with the idea to use a lot of jumpy sisters for frontline pressure.

You could consider the Sacred 17 as a way to start integrating Sisters into a bigger detachment. Its about 215 points for a Canoness, Missionary and 3 Battle Sisters (5CP). You could put BSS in cover, make them 2 up save and make them ignore AP-1, if you bring an imagifier you can make them ignore AP-2. On top of this you get access to Miracle dice and useful stratagems such as deny. This makes them ideal for back field, you can put 36 inch Melta or Heavy bolter to taste so that along with miracle dice they can actually shoot back and not just hold objectives.

 Sim-Life wrote:
Between Miracle dice and cherubs and auras they're probably still decent.

I'm not entirely sure what sort of niche they are supposed to fill in an infantry heavy, grinding type list.

Now that faith affects individuals rather than whole squads the value of squeezing special weapons into single units rather than multiple units is diminished, and you don't want to be scouting your models out of aura range. Two squads of 5 battle sisters with 2 special weapons each rather than a squad of 10 dominions with 4 special weapons and meatshields... you are gaining obsec and saving enough points to get those cherubs included.

 Gareth_Evans wrote:

Hey guys, ordered the new boxset. Usually I play competitive 40k so it would try to so that with sisters as well. Some people here talk about the great shooting of sisters so I gotta ask: what shooting is there?
Atm I am toying with the idea to use a lot of jumpy sisters for frontline pressure.

You could consider the Sacred 17 as a way to start integrating Sisters into a bigger detachment. Its about 215 points for a Canoness, Missionary and 3 Battle Sisters (5CP). You could put BSS in cover, make them 2 up save and make them ignore AP-1, if you bring an imagifier you can make them ignore AP-2. On top of this you get access to Miracle dice and useful stratagems such as deny. This makes them ideal for back field, you can put 36 inch Melta or Heavy bolter to taste so that along with miracle dice they can actually shoot back and not just hold objectives.

Yeah, I 2nd using the Faithful 17 as a start point. Slightly tougher back field, some extra bonuses against psykers (less than before), and a few other bonuses depending on how you set them up.
You can also include the Repentia and arcos as either counter charger, or as distractions.

Just trying to fully the MD application to rolls.
Say my exorcist gets off 5 shots and all hit and wound and my a opponent miraculously fails each one on the targeted knight.
When it comes to the damage roll, I really wanna make sure that knight goes down, so I want to use my MD. Can I only use a single MD on one of those damage rolls and roll the rest, or can I pull out 5 MD to replace all 5 of those damage rolls I would have to make?

 Gareth_Evans wrote:

Hey guys, ordered the new boxset. Usually I play competitive 40k so it would try to so that with sisters as well. Some people here talk about the great shooting of sisters so I gotta ask: what shooting is there?
Atm I am toying with the idea to use a lot of jumpy sisters for frontline pressure.

You could consider the Sacred 17 as a way to start integrating Sisters into a bigger detachment. Its about 215 points for a Canoness, Missionary and 3 Battle Sisters (5CP). You could put BSS in cover, make them 2 up save and make them ignore AP-1, if you bring an imagifier you can make them ignore AP-2. On top of this you get access to Miracle dice and useful stratagems such as deny. This makes them ideal for back field, you can put 36 inch Melta or Heavy bolter to taste so that along with miracle dice they can actually shoot back and not just hold objectives.

Sacred 17. Sounds good. Like the valorous heart input with imagifier. Yet I cannot see any real output other than bolters and the occasional MM. Also, my googlefu seems off. Anyone care to link a list with the new stratagems? Cheers.

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Just trying to fully the MD application to rolls.
Say my exorcist gets off 5 shots and all hit and wound and my a opponent miraculously fails each one on the targeted knight.
When it comes to the damage roll, I really wanna make sure that knight goes down, so I want to use my MD. Can I only use a single MD on one of those damage rolls and roll the rest, or can I pull out 5 MD to replace all 5 of those damage rolls I would have to make?

I don't think so. I think its like rerolls where if the dice are a combined number you can substitute multiple dice but if its several individual rolls you can only do the one.

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Just trying to fully the MD application to rolls.
Say my exorcist gets off 5 shots and all hit and wound and my a opponent miraculously fails each one on the targeted knight.
When it comes to the damage roll, I really wanna make sure that knight goes down, so I want to use my MD. Can I only use a single MD on one of those damage rolls and roll the rest, or can I pull out 5 MD to replace all 5 of those damage rolls I would have to make?

As far as I understand it, since it would be 5 separate damage rolls (we roll everything at once for faster play but from a rule standpoint they are separate rolls) and you're allowed only one act of faith per phase (without bonuses), you would be able to use only one miracle dice for these damage rolls.

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Just trying to fully the MD application to rolls.
Say my exorcist gets off 5 shots and all hit and wound and my a opponent miraculously fails each one on the targeted knight.
When it comes to the damage roll, I really wanna make sure that knight goes down, so I want to use my MD. Can I only use a single MD on one of those damage rolls and roll the rest, or can I pull out 5 MD to replace all 5 of those damage rolls I would have to make?

"Before making a dice roll for a model or unit in your army with the Acts of Faith ability, you may choose to use one or more dice from your Miracle Dice pool instead. For each individual dice being rolled as part of that dice roll, you may choose a dice from your Miracle Dice pool to be substituted in place of that dice."

So I'm reasonable certain you can substitute all 5, but I'm not 100% on it. Depends if rolling damage for one weapon counts as one dice roll...

Hoc Est Bellum wrote:

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Just trying to fully the MD application to rolls.
Say my exorcist gets off 5 shots and all hit and wound and my a opponent miraculously fails each one on the targeted knight.
When it comes to the damage roll, I really wanna make sure that knight goes down, so I want to use my MD. Can I only use a single MD on one of those damage rolls and roll the rest, or can I pull out 5 MD to replace all 5 of those damage rolls I would have to make?

"Before making a dice roll for a model or unit in your army with the Acts of Faith ability, you may choose to use one or more dice from your Miracle Dice pool instead. For each individual dice being rolled as part of that dice roll, you may choose a dice from your Miracle Dice pool to be substituted in place of that dice."

So I'm reasonable certain you can substitute all 5, but I'm not 100% on it. Depends if rolling damage for one weapon counts as one dice roll...

Except one missile damage is d6. That's the dice roll for that unit to make for which you can replace. If you can only do one miracle dice replacement for roll per phase(think I read so) then max 1 of those. By the time you get to 2nd missile you have already done that roll. Remember each shot is fully resolved one at a time. Fast rolling doesn't change that(indeed you can only fast dice if it doesn't change actual result).

So for exorcist 3d3 shots you can replace 1-3 dice, for each individual missile you can replace either to hit, to wound or damage but if you can only do miracle dice replacement once per phase then that will eat it up for that phase.

Hoc Est Bellum wrote:
"Before making a dice roll for a model or unit in your army with the Acts of Faith ability, you may choose to use one or more dice from your Miracle Dice pool instead. For each individual dice being rolled as part of that dice roll, you may choose a dice from your Miracle Dice pool to be substituted in place of that dice."

So I'm reasonable certain you can substitute all 5, but I'm not 100% on it. Depends if rolling damage for one weapon counts as one dice roll...

Sounds like a question for the first FAQ - how many damage dice can you replace on an exorcist, what about a squad of multimeltas, what if the squad splits fire, etc.

pretty sure the way miracle dice works is on the "roll" itself, and the same things that allow the Tau to markerlight a target, then the extra marketlights from the unit getting rerolled ones means we can't use miracle dice to improve multiple damage rolls from a unit.

the bit about "one or more dice from your miracle dice pool" means things like Charge dice, which are 2d6 checks can both be replaced as i understand this.

Anyone else intrigued by the Battle Sanctum?

For 50 pts, a Miracle dice a turn and cover for some sisters seems OK. The description of the rules imply it's quite large, with reference to upper and lower floors. Wondering if it's big enough to hide an Exorcist inside and have it be 50% obscured?

As a side note, it's hilarious that it's not a proper building, just to really hammer home how useless the IF anti-building stuff is.

tneva82 wrote:

Hoc Est Bellum wrote:

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Just trying to fully the MD application to rolls.
Say my exorcist gets off 5 shots and all hit and wound and my a opponent miraculously fails each one on the targeted knight.
When it comes to the damage roll, I really wanna make sure that knight goes down, so I want to use my MD. Can I only use a single MD on one of those damage rolls and roll the rest, or can I pull out 5 MD to replace all 5 of those damage rolls I would have to make?

"Before making a dice roll for a model or unit in your army with the Acts of Faith ability, you may choose to use one or more dice from your Miracle Dice pool instead. For each individual dice being rolled as part of that dice roll, you may choose a dice from your Miracle Dice pool to be substituted in place of that dice."

So I'm reasonable certain you can substitute all 5, but I'm not 100% on it. Depends if rolling damage for one weapon counts as one dice roll...

Except one missile damage is d6. That's the dice roll for that unit to make for which you can replace. If you can only do one miracle dice replacement for roll per phase(think I read so) then max 1 of those. By the time you get to 2nd missile you have already done that roll. Remember each shot is fully resolved one at a time. Fast rolling doesn't change that(indeed you can only fast dice if it doesn't change actual result).

So for exorcist 3d3 shots you can replace 1-3 dice, for each individual missile you can replace either to hit, to wound or damage but if you can only do miracle dice replacement once per phase then that will eat it up for that phase.

Ah, yeah, I think you might have the right of it there.

So what situations exist where you could replace multiple dice, then? Charging, Immolator shots, Exorcist shots... I guess Meltas in Melta range but why would you? That's a pretty short list!

In that case, A.T., I think you're absolutely right about just putting special weapons in BSS. Just crack out the miracles whenever a great opportunity presents itself (failed melta save, crucial Deny, etc.). I think that might raise the stock of the Ebon Chalice, though. If dice use is relatively low, a sure-fire 6 is quite high value.

Simulacrum Imperialis are probably still worth it, not so sure about the Intercessor Cherubs now.

IanVanCheese wrote:

For 50 pts, a Miracle dice a turn and cover for some sisters seems OK.

It's 50 pts and and whole detachment.
Considering the book seems to encourage players to make multiple detachment using different orders, it might be a big issue if you wanted to use it (and since outside of this restriction it's a second AoF for 50 pts, huge chance you would want to).

dhallnet wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

For 50 pts, a Miracle dice a turn and cover for some sisters seems OK.

It's 50 pts and and whole detachment.
Considering the book seems to encourage players to make multiple detachment using different orders, it might be a big issue if you wanted to use it (and since outside of this restriction it's a second AoF for 50 pts, huge chance you would want to).

Why does it matter that its A WHOLE DETACHMENT? Theres no limit to how many detachments you can take as far as I know? Unless this is some stupid ITC thing?

dhallnet wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

For 50 pts, a Miracle dice a turn and cover for some sisters seems OK.

It's 50 pts and and whole detachment.
Considering the book seems to encourage players to make multiple detachment using different orders, it might be a big issue if you wanted to use it (and since outside of this restriction it's a second AoF for 50 pts, huge chance you would want to).

Yeah maybe, I'm think more for single order lists but I see the point. If you're mixing three Orders then obviously not, but otherwise I think it has some value. Certainly more useful than most fortifications out there. I think GW need to tweek the detachments to allow a single fortification in a battalion.

Edit: Sim-Life most tournaments only allow three detachments.

 Sim-Life wrote:

dhallnet wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

For 50 pts, a Miracle dice a turn and cover for some sisters seems OK.

It's 50 pts and and whole detachment.
Considering the book seems to encourage players to make multiple detachment using different orders, it might be a big issue if you wanted to use it (and since outside of this restriction it's a second AoF for 50 pts, huge chance you would want to).

Why does it matter that its A WHOLE DETACHMENT? Theres no limit to how many detachments you can take as far as I know? Unless this is some stupid ITC thing?

you are limited to 3 in matched play @ 2000 points

That being said, no one is running 3 battalions, and no one is running like 18 heavy support choices, so this at best costs you 1cp for your vanguard to be mixed in with your other detachments and/or having them as one of those two orders instead

probably not a big deal

I mean, my foot-horde sisters is planning a brigade. I suspect it will look something like this:

3 Canoness
1 Inquisitor

6 BSS squads

Repentia
Imagifier
Hospitaller

2 Dominion squads
Seraphim

3 Retributors

That probably roughly comes to 2k or under, leaving me space for a Battle Sanctum and perhaps another Detachment (Battalion would be hilarious but I doubt I have enough points)

EDIT:
I'd figure out the points costs if they were leaked somewhere in a legible format.

tneva82 wrote:

Hoc Est Bellum wrote:

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Just trying to fully the MD application to rolls.
Say my exorcist gets off 5 shots and all hit and wound and my a opponent miraculously fails each one on the targeted knight.
When it comes to the damage roll, I really wanna make sure that knight goes down, so I want to use my MD. Can I only use a single MD on one of those damage rolls and roll the rest, or can I pull out 5 MD to replace all 5 of those damage rolls I would have to make?

"Before making a dice roll for a model or unit in your army with the Acts of Faith ability, you may choose to use one or more dice from your Miracle Dice pool instead. For each individual dice being rolled as part of that dice roll, you may choose a dice from your Miracle Dice pool to be substituted in place of that dice."

So I'm reasonable certain you can substitute all 5, but I'm not 100% on it. Depends if rolling damage for one weapon counts as one dice roll...

Except one missile damage is d6. That's the dice roll for that unit to make for which you can replace. If you can only do one miracle dice replacement for roll per phase(think I read so) then max 1 of those. By the time you get to 2nd missile you have already done that roll. Remember each shot is fully resolved one at a time. Fast rolling doesn't change that(indeed you can only fast dice if it doesn't change actual result).

So for exorcist 3d3 shots you can replace 1-3 dice, for each individual missile you can replace either to hit, to wound or damage but if you can only do miracle dice replacement once per phase then that will eat it up for that phase.

That would make sense. Doing it the other way would probably be OP AF.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I mean, my foot-horde sisters is planning a brigade. I suspect it will look something like this:

3 Canoness
1 Inquisitor

6 BSS squads

Repentia
Imagifier
Hospitaller

2 Dominion squads
Seraphim

3 Retributors

That probably roughly comes to 2k or under, leaving me space for a Battle Sanctum and perhaps another Detachment (Battalion would be hilarious but I doubt I have enough points)

EDIT:
I'd figure out the points costs if they were leaked somewhere in a legible format.

Yeah I'm think Brigades are gonna be pretty easy. There aren't any tax units/slots.

 Grundz wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

dhallnet wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

For 50 pts, a Miracle dice a turn and cover for some sisters seems OK.

It's 50 pts and and whole detachment.
Considering the book seems to encourage players to make multiple detachment using different orders, it might be a big issue if you wanted to use it (and since outside of this restriction it's a second AoF for 50 pts, huge chance you would want to).

Why does it matter that its A WHOLE DETACHMENT? Theres no limit to how many detachments you can take as far as I know? Unless this is some stupid ITC thing?

you are limited to 3 in matched play @ 2000 points

Where is that in the rules? I can't find it.
Edit: Nevermind, did some research and its just one of those "suggestions" the competitive community assumes is a rule that HAS to be followed. So it doesn't apply to me because I'm a gross Garagehammer player.

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Grundz wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

dhallnet wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

For 50 pts, a Miracle dice a turn and cover for some sisters seems OK.

It's 50 pts and and whole detachment.
Considering the book seems to encourage players to make multiple detachment using different orders, it might be a big issue if you wanted to use it (and since outside of this restriction it's a second AoF for 50 pts, huge chance you would want to).

Why does it matter that its A WHOLE DETACHMENT? Theres no limit to how many detachments you can take as far as I know? Unless this is some stupid ITC thing?

you are limited to 3 in matched play @ 2000 points

Where is that in the rules? I can't find it.

Pretty sure it was on one of the chapter approveds, it was added post-rulebook.

I'm interested to see how the 1CP +1-3 miracle dice not-actually-lose-an-unnamed-character stratagem plays out. I'm often saddened my relic Canoness doesn't get to do more